Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: The Never-ending Battle: Mac vs. PC

This is topic The Never-ending Battle: Mac vs. PC in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Shane Hoffmann (Member # 1620) on 10-15-2003, 08:58 PM:

What are all you guys running on your home computers?
I'm on the MAC side, and I know several of you are also, from previous posts I've read, and I'm glad to see that. Usually, being in the minority, I have to battle the masses alone when defending my platform.

I have a 12" Powerbook G4, 60 GB HD, 640 MB RAM, 867mHz, Superdrive.

Why do I love Macs?

>Sometimes, it's just fun to argue
>I don't have to download security updates every other day.
>Most viruses aren't aimed toward me
>Final Cut Pro (or any other program that the creatively-geared mind desires)
>Everything runs smoothly
>MUCH more user-friendly than Windows
>What's not to love? They're gorgeous!

EDIT: Sorry Linux-users! I forgot to include you! Feel free to rave/rant.

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 10-15-2003, 09:18 PM:

Mac's are for pussy-ass(es)... right Joe? [evil]

(I STILL like Atari better than Apple)

>>> Phil

Posted by Shane Hoffmann (Member # 1620) on 10-15-2003, 09:22 PM:

Come on, at least give some reason why [Frown]

No need to start the name calling..yet [evil]

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 10-15-2003, 09:27 PM:

No the only computor of any values were
ADAM's
CBM's

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 10-15-2003, 09:30 PM:

Phil is just saying that to piss me off, but it doesn't work because everyone loves ATARI more than anything.

I have both a Mac and a PC. No laptops. I do most of my video editing on the Mac, though I only have After Effects on the PC so on the rare ocasion that I need to use AE, then the files are networked to the PC. I do a lot of web surfing on the PC. I am typing this post on the PC. For high end creative tools such as Final Cut Pro, DVD Studio Pro, etc etc etc nothing on Windows really compares (though VegASS Video is supposed to be a good video editor). The Mac OS is better than the Windows OS. With 10.3 out soon it'll kick quite a bit of ass.

Simple rule to follow:
If you don't intend on doing a ton of stuff with the computer and only plan on using it for internet, web server, tax filing, word processing, and things like that, stick with the PC. Macs are not really good computers for standard general use since they cost more.

If you have creative ambitions, spend the extra money on a Mac.

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 10-15-2003, 09:34 PM:

Quotes & Responses:

>Sometimes, it's just fun to argue
That's a basic truism... I'll give ya that.

>I don't have to download security updates every other day.
There are not enough mac users that know how to surf... therefore not necessary to use "protection".

>Most viruses aren't aimed toward me
See above.

>Final Cut Pro (or any other program that the creatively-geared mind desires)
OK OK... I agree

>Everything runs smoothly
Yeah, sure...

>MUCH more user-friendly than Windows
Yeah sure...

>What's not to love? They're gorgeous!
Gorgeous? That word alone proves my statement.. [Smile]

>>> Phil

Posted by Shane Hoffmann (Member # 1620) on 10-15-2003, 10:06 PM:

quote:
There are not enough mac users that know how to surf

Phil- I have yet to meet a mac-user who isn't very computer-savvy. I would have to say that most of them do surf, we're just such a small minority that nobody bothers writing viruses. As far as no need for protection, that isn't true either; OS X is well-written with much fewer holes to exploit than Windows.

quote:
Simple rule to follow:
If you don't intend on doing a ton of stuff with the computer and only plan on using it for internet, web server, tax filing, word processing, and things like that, stick with the PC. Macs are not really good computers for standard general use since they cost more.

I disagree. If you don't intend on doing a lot of stuff with a computer, and especially if you don't know anything about computers, you SHOULD buy a mac. eMacs start at $799, iBooks from $999. Price shouldn't be an issue. If that's still too much $$$ buy a G3 imac on ebay. I just sold mine to my sister, but if I only needed for the basics, it would've been a great computer for me. Macs are also great for those new to computers because you plug 'em in, turn em on, answer a few questions and you're set to go.
They come with Safari (if not you can download it at Apple.com for free) for an internet browser. I've been using it since the beta release and love it. It aslo ships with programs for word-processing and taxes, as well as the iLife programs which are great.

quote:
With 10.3 out soon it'll kick quite a bit of ass.

Damn Straight! [beer]

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 10-15-2003, 11:28 PM:

quote:
I have yet to meet a mac-user who isn't very computer-savvy.

I have. They're just as common as clueless Windows and Linux users.

quote:
The Mac OS is better than the Windows OS. With 10.3 out soon it'll kick quite a bit of ass.

You said that when anticipating the release of OS X Joe. As far as I know you still use OS 9 more.

quote:
As far as no need for protection, that isn't true either; OS X is well-written with much fewer holes to exploit than Windows.

Really? Are you sure that it's not just that "we're just such a small minority that nobody bothers writing viruses" so nobody bothers. Why spend all that time in a door room or in your parents basement working on your exploit (while you could be out getting laid) and target a comparably small (read: tiny) portion of the personal computer user base. Where's the fun, and possibly 'fame' in that?

quote:
eMacs start at $799

Dell and others have entry level systems with similar pricing.

quote:
They come with Safari (if not you can download it at Apple.com for free) for an internet browser.

The DOJ should go after Apple for bundling a browser with their OS.

quote:
Everything runs smoothly

There's something wrong if your Windows based system doesn't run smoothly. I have never seen my main Windows 2000 machine crash / die / lockup / whatever. Actually, I've never seen any of my Windows 2000 Servers or any of my notebooks running Windows 2000 run 'un-smoothly' either. And you know what, I've never had a problem with any other operating systems, including FreeBSD, NetBSD, Redhat Linux, Slackware, etc. lockup on them either. Properly configured operating systems running on top of good hardware don't have problems. Really, it's that simple. That's the reason why Macintosh's run good, and 'smooth'. Apple has effectively done to their hardware platform what Microsoft has done to their software platform. They've blocked everyone else out so that outsiders can't f*#k it up. Being able to ensure that the hardware is actually good and reliable and conforming to their own standards, makes it incredibly more simpler to write or adapt an operating system for the hardware platform. That said, it is really incredible that Microsoft's operating systems run as smoothly as they do on literally hundreds of thousands of different hardware configurations running on multiple processor architectures.

quote:
I have a 12" Powerbook G4, 60 GB HD, 640 MB RAM, 867mHz, Superdrive.

So.

Wouldn't I have a Macintosh Notebook, or even a Powerbook G4 suffice?

I'm typing this on a keyboard connected to an MSI mainboard connected to an Athlon XP 2800+ and 1GB of DDR RAM, 1.2TB HD (yes 1.2 terabytes with 100GB free) and multiple removable media alternatives both inferior and superior to a SuperDrive. But so what.

quote:
I have to battle the masses alone when defending my platform.

Can somebody explain to me why you should need to defend an operating system. Aren't there better things to be defending?

Daryl's favourite operating system: MS-DOS 3.3

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 10-15-2003, 11:39 PM:

Daryl, you forgot to mention that the processor is made by Motorola... they can't even make good cell phones, let alone a microprocessor. [evil]

AND! I agree, MS-DOS 3.3 rules! [beer]

>>> Phil

Posted by Nicholas Roznovsky (Member # 861) on 10-15-2003, 11:41 PM:

BASIC is where it's at. Everything else is crap.

I've been through a lot of PCs over the years, family members have gone through Macs right and left but my ol' trusty Commodore 64 and 128 are both still alive and kicking here in the 21st century. Of course, I only use them to play those crappy games that I loved as a young lad. Give me big ol' nasty 5.25" floppy drives and hard-drive free RAM-only power machines!

I've never downloaded a virus on either my C-64 or c-128! [Big Grin]

(or much of anything else for that matter!)

For real world use, I've stuck strictly to PCs. Not once have I ever had any of the problems with any version of Windows that are reportedly "commonplace". As one might expect, most problems "caused by Windows" are really caused by idiots trying to do too much with underpowered rigs or guys who screw up their own rigs by trying to modify things they don't understand.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 10-15-2003, 11:57 PM:

I wasn't about to attack Motorola, I hear they pay well. [Smile]

Posted by Ron Lacheur (Member # 1126) on 10-16-2003, 12:05 AM:

Adobe Premiere for windows is pretty good. The ultimate video editor for Windows is Avid DV Xpress. It works on XP only though.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 10-16-2003, 12:15 AM:

This thread is flame bait. And the Mac versus PC thing is an irrelevant load of bullshit.

quote:
Usually, being in the minority, I have to battle the masses alone when defending my platform

I like Macs. But the term "defending my platform" really seems very dubious. Most of what I have seen in the past 20 years is Mac fans assuming a very elitist attitude and thumbing their noses at anyone who uses a different kind of computer. Just about any Wintel PC user will freely admit that Windows is not perfect. But Macs aren't either. Trouble is I only seem to read about Mac system crashes and buggy software in graphics application forums I visit (such as Macromedia's forums for instance --Freehand seems to have had a lot more problems on the Mac side than it did on PC, especially with FH10).

quote:
If you have creative ambitions, spend the extra money on a Mac

That really depends on what exactly you intend to do creatively.

I would recommend a Mac for print-based publishing, mainly out of consideration that most publishing houses and service bureaus have Mac-based infrastructures. Font handling is the biggest problem (but OpenType is supposed to solve that). It is possible to build an entirely PC-based publishing workflow pretty easily. A few years ago most professional color control and imposition systems were only available for the Mac platfom. Not so these days.

If you are doing in-house printing (particulaly large format thermal inkjet printing) it really doesn't matter so much what platform you use. However, leading large format production and RIP apps like Onyx Graphics Poster Shop Pro are PC only. If you have the bucks to install a 3M Scotchprint system, you'll be sitting in front of a Sun Workstation (yep, another proprietary thing.).

Sign making has been PC and UNIX dominated since the 1980's. That's only because the apps grew from manufacturing CAD/CAM/CAE applications, a market largely ignored by the Mac platform (and the thing which threw Apple way behind in the 3D thing).

The category "professional video editing" has to be clarified when it comes to computers. High end turnkey systems from Discreet, Avid and Pinnacle are highly proprietary (and not to mention extremely expensive). Some may use a Mac front end, but all are still very specialized.

Apple does indeed have the corner on the market for "prosumer" digital video editing since Final Cut Pro and DVD Studio Pro are exclusive to the Mac platform. Those two apps are the ONLY thing that has me considering buying a Mac. I could not care less how fast Apple claims the G5 runs. Killer Apps like Final Cut Pro are the key to Apple gaining more success. Although they have to do more arm-twisting with vendors like Adobe to make the platform "switch" easier. With all the activation baloney Adobe is incorporating into "StudioCS" and the similar things worked into Macromedia StudioMX 2004, they are forcing me to keep those licenses on a WindowsPC.

The Mac has the advantage when it comes to computer audio editing. It has been awhile since I last checked, but I don't think there is a PC version of ProTools.

I can name a few creative things where you are really better served using a PC.

Web page design and development is the most popular creative activity on PCs. Color display and font handling is different between the two platforms. You're better off designing and previewing pages on the platform used by 95% of the world's computer users. On top of that, you just have more design and developmental tools for the web on the PC side, so much so that Macromedia has really been pissing me off by coming up with so many webby tools while other once-great applications like Fontographer and Freehand are being left to rot.

Although Apple has made up some ground on the 3D side, you're still better off doing 3D animation on a PC. Some "killer apps" like Discreet's Studio3D Max are exclusive to the PC platform. Other extensible apps like Maya and Lightwave3D have Mac versions, but a lot more plugins are written for the PC side. Then you have the simple matter of hardware availability. There's a lot of vendors making professional high-end 3D acceleration cards for PCs. Not nearly as many are doing it on the Mac end.

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 10-16-2003, 12:15 AM:

Daryl, you are a true whore... It's NOT about the money, it's about the "art". [evil]

Ron, Premiere is a humongous PITA to use. I hate it! It's enough to make me go out and buy a (God forgive me) a Mac so I can use Final Cut Pro. Now, that's a REAL PGM! [beer]

(SEE! I told you Shane what you started!) [Big Grin]

>>> Phil

Posted by David L Parlier (Member # 1944) on 10-16-2003, 12:23 AM:

I know that MAC's have their place in the world and this is especially true w/ graphic programs, but I hate MAC's. I think my negative view started in 4th grade when we had to use MAC's for some type of stupid class. You couldn't take the floppy disk out without telling the operating system to do so for you. What in the hell is the deal with that? Just give me a damn button!! Talk about clueless users. At least a normal computer has faith the user can remove a floppy disk by themselves. I could go on and on but I will stop here.

Oh, I am running Windows 2000 Pro on my desktop and Windows XP on my laptop. I have had no problems with either operating system to date.

Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 10-16-2003, 12:33 AM:

I think previous editions of PREMIERE have been unfairly malighned. Almost all bugs in the system have been the result of the software drivers by third party developers for the hardware cards (of course, Adobe should probably have provided their own cards and drivers). At work I use the DV500 from Pinnacle and almost all performance issues lie with the Pinacly drivers, not Premiere. Yes, i would prefer to go to Final Cut Pro, but given our crippling budget woes, switching to a MAC and replacing all software (AE, Photoshop, Illustrator) is just not in the cards yet. By now, I know all the quirks of the system and can work around them. People shouldnt be so reliant on just one platform. And all applications have their good and bad sides. The day a company introduces the absolute PERFECT app that solves all your needs is the year that company folds.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 10-16-2003, 12:41 AM:

I agree that this is a pointless argument. No one will convince anyone else that their platform is better with what is said here. Both platforms have their uses. Both platforms have their pitfalls. YOU must decide what's best for YOU. Beyond that, who gives a fuck? I don't give a rat's ass what you all think on the subject, just as you shouldn't give a rat's ass what I think. The argument is old.

And Daryl, I don't seem to recall saying good things about OS X when it was first released. I was most likely badmouthing it, in fact. Yeah, that seems more right.

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 10-16-2003, 12:50 AM:

quote:
...you shouldn't give a rat's ass what I think...

Damn! Joe, finally something we all can agree on.... [beer]

>>> Phil

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 10-16-2003, 01:39 AM:

Apple also bundles Microsoft IE with the OS.

They do not bundle Safari *exclusively* but this may have something to do with the fact that Safari isn't ready for prime-time. It doesn't work with the Film-Tech, ECO or Citibank Online websites, for instance.

But I don't recall reading about the many cool "iApps" bundled *free* as well...

iTunes
iMovie
iPhoto
iChat
iCal
iDVD

And then there's Mail and Address Book as part of OS X as well. [Cool]

Trust me: 10.3 will indeed kick much [Moon]

. My copy is pre-ordered already. Can't wait!

Something else to consider -- Although I agree with the "we're such a tiny market...why bother" stance on the apparent absence of Mac viruses I also wonder sometimes if the Windows/PC viruses are sometimes borne out of resentment toward Microsoft.

What I mean is this: PC users aren't generally fanatics like Mac users. For instance...Who started this thread? Who feels the need to defend a platform? It was a Mac user. [Roll Eyes]

Myself included, Apple consumers tend to all be sucking Steve Jobs' you-know-what in one way, shape or form; and while the same is true of some PC users and Bill Gates PC zealots are a little harder to come by in general.

Having said all that...let me now contradict myself for a minute...visit the discussion forums on Apple's website and you will soon learn that a lot of Mac users have a vibrant love-hate relationship with Apple.

Bitch, Bitch, Bitch.
Moan, Moan, Moan.

They are *never* satisfied. [puke]

Then again...Apple has (of late) earned a proven track-record for listening to their users and, quite often, exceeding their demands and expectations. iPod and the iTunes music store are good examples of this...as are Keynote and the new flat-panel iMac.

For the record, I'm typing this on my 14" iBook (600MHz/20GB/256MB RAM/CDRW+DVD Combo). That happens to be my most-used Mac at the moment but I have several including a 7100/80AV and a Classic (with a whopping 4MB RAM) but, sadly, I no longer have the //e that started it all for me.

I love my iPods and AirPorts, too. [thumbsup]

In other news -- It looks as though I will cave in and buy an IBM ThinkPad. I haven't had much luck getting VirtualPC to play nice with the Dolby processors. [Frown]

It's a shame, really, because that PC laptop won't get used for anything else. That's for sure.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 10-16-2003, 01:54 AM:

Pro Tools supports Windows... I can't remember for how long now, but I've used it on Windows 98 before.

Posted by Ron Lacheur (Member # 1126) on 10-16-2003, 03:42 AM:

There's different versions of Pro Tools for the different Windows OS. Pro Tools for Windows 98 will not work on 2000.

Posted by Jim Leko (Member # 1287) on 10-16-2003, 04:09 AM:

I use a PC, as I only need my computer for gaming, internet, word processing. If I was using my computer professionally, and needed high end multimedia power, I would probably get an SGI workstation.

P4 2.4c, 800mhz FSB, 1024MB Crucial PC3200 RAM (Dual Channel), Radeon 9800 Pro 256MB, WD Raptor 36.7GB 10,000rpm SATA HD, Viewsonic P95f+ 19" Monitor, SB Audigy 2, Antec 1080AMG case, Antec Truepower 430w PS, F-22 Pro/F16 TQS (Digital chip upgraded).

Posted by Mike Olpin (Member # 1115) on 10-16-2003, 11:40 AM:

2 Mac SEs, one is custom painted
1 PowerBook 160c
1 PowerBook 5300c *
1 Performa 6300cd
1 Quadra (cant remember the number - ithink 440)
1 iMac DV 400 DVD
1 iMac G4 Combo*
1 ipod 15gb (newer design)

But my primary computer (the one I use the most) is my
iBook "Marble" 500/ 256 / 30gb/ DVD*

*= able to acces internet via my 802.11b wireless network (which is not a airport)

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 10-16-2003, 05:00 PM:

quote:
I use a PC, as I only need my computer for gaming, internet, word processing. If I was using my computer professionally, and needed high end multimedia power, I would probably get an SGI workstation.

SGI workstations are nice, but they run a very limited supply of software. Very often the companies using SGI or Sun (or other machines using different UNIX variants such as AIX; kinda popular in those DEC Alpha days) are typically coding and running their own custom-designed software.

If you want to buy an SGI or Sun workstation to run stuff like Adobe Photoshop, you'll be S.O.L. At one time, Adobe was making SGI-compatible versions of Photoshop 4.0 and Illustrator 5.5. But that was back in the mid 1990's. Now it is all strictly Mac and PC. No glimmer of hope for Linux ports either.

Choose software and hardware to fit your professional/creative tasks. Don't simply choose an OS and try to make your tasks fit that platform.

Posted by Shane Hoffmann (Member # 1620) on 10-16-2003, 05:23 PM:

Daryl- Why would anyone need to defend their operating system? Well I can tell you that (even though I did this time), I'm not usually the one to start the argument. It usually goes something like:
Friend: You should download blah blah blah on Kazaa.
Me: I don't have Kazaa
Friend: That's right, you use apple. Macs suck!

There's any number of ways that this conversation can start, but usually I don't draw first blood. I know a lot of PC users (who are generally *good* with computers), and they seem to enjoy this argument b/c they usually have people around to back them up, no matter how stupid their points are. (There are good arguments to use against us mac-users, but I usually don't hear them-I have here though). This is how I've found myself defending Apple quite often.

As far as the DOJ going after them- I think they've still got a ways to go before anyone starts worrying about an Apple monopoly [Smile]

David L: That seems like a minor inconvenience to cause your hate for macs. If it's any consolation, there's an eject button now [Smile]

Manny: If you get a new mac, the iApps are included. They were on my iMac that I bought two years ago, the iBook my dad bought two years ago, and the powerbook i bought earlier this year (they only come with iDVD if you get the Superdrive model, but you'd have to expect that). I also agree with you about mac users being fanatics- it seems we all are. There's no way to explain it, but I think it says a lot about the quality of the product when *all* the users are fanatics.

I've read posts in this thread calling the Mac vs. PC argument "pointless" and "irrelevant," but I really don't think it is. We owe a lot of the advances in computing to this "competition." Apple and Microsoft, as well as the Hardware companies like Dell, Gateway, etc. are obviously all competing with each other, but what would be the point of this competition if all of these companies didn't have people who really get excited about the advances they are making. It can also provide motivation for third-party software developers.

The iPod is definitely the key to the hearts of at least *some* of the PC-using world. I have been happy to see some of my friends admiring mine, and have had a few buy one of their own. Today is a good day for these PC/iPod users- iTunes for windows has been released!

Phil-I know what i got myself into, and I still don't regret starting it!

[Wink]

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 10-16-2003, 05:39 PM:

quote:
...I still don't regret starting it...

Ummm, not yet you don't. We're all just on our best behavior cuz you're new here. Give us time... [evil]

Wait 'til Brad, Daryl, and Joe REALLY get up to speed. [beer]

>>> Phil

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 10-16-2003, 06:30 PM:

Yeah, just wait'll Brad goes on his anti UNIX campaign. He blames UNIX for destroying two of his servers simultaneously.

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 10-16-2003, 06:35 PM:

Hey Joe, I thought that was from Scott rubbing up against them...

>>> Phil

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 10-16-2003, 06:50 PM:

He and Daryl both are. You'll see at the end of the month. I can't wait to videotape the ensuing battle between them and Brad.

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 10-16-2003, 07:08 PM:

OMG! A 3-way on the server... Hubba Hubba!

>>> Phil

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 10-16-2003, 07:34 PM:

Speaking of the iApps, Windows users now have iTunes available to them. This is good because iTunes easily imports CD tracks to WAV or AIFF or MP3 or AAC files. Windows Media Player was a bitch to deal with and only converted to WMA. Winamp was a bitch to export to WAV or AIFF as well, as you had to use a plug-in. iTunes also allows you to "legally" download crap for 99 cents a song or $10 an album (I think) in the much-ballyhooed AAC format (which is compressed, therefore it sucks when it all boils down to it). At least you can preview every song they offer befo' you buy. I personally have never bought anything from the Apple Music Store.

Click here, foo!

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 10-16-2003, 09:31 PM:

quote:
I've read posts in this thread calling the Mac vs. PC argument "pointless" and "irrelevant," but I really don't think it is.

But the argument is irrelevant. Apple has very few "killer apps" exclusive to that platform. Final Cut Pro and DVD Studio Pro are pretty much it. Those are not mass market applications either. They appeal only to people who edit digital video on a professional or semi-professional basis, and are willing to pony up $2000 for those two apps. How many big video games are exclusive to the Mac platform?

Here's the thing Apple doesn't seem to realize about 95% of computers users: it doesn't matter how fast a user can complete a certain task; it only matters whether the user can complete that task at all with that machine. There's lots of people continuing to use PCs that are 5 or more years old. Those antiques won't win any speed contests, but for those users they get the job done. Apple's unwillingness to realize this truth is very apparent in their hollow "twice as fast" marketing for the G5 and every PowerPC CPU previous to it. Apple needs to come up with things you just cannot do at all on a PC.

Back in the late 1980's and early 1990's a lot of Mac hardware was sold only because applications like Adobe Photoshop, Aldus PageMaker, QuarkXpress, Illustrator, Freehand, LivePicture and others were exclusive to the Mac platform. Apple didn't invent any of those apps, but if you wanted to use them back then you had to use a Mac. It has now been 8 years or more since that situation existed.

I don't want Apple to die out. They have made a lot of positive contributions to personal computing. But Apple has to do a far better job in trying to make PC users buy Macs. The "switch" campaign and veiled insults to Windows users is not going to gain the company any market share (yes, the G5 campaign "our processor is twice as fast" does indeed come off as "your PC sucks ass"). If I'm visiting any kind of store and the proprietor insults me I'm not giving him any of my business. It doesn't matter how right he thinks he is.

For a PC user to switch to a Mac, he has to look at buying all of his software all over again. What is Apple doing to alleviate that problem? There are very few applications that ship both Mac and PC software in the same box. Now with companies adopting software activation systems in an attempt to thwart piracy, it won't matter whether your box has dual platform discs or not. You can't "switch" when you want to do so, and the software vendors will make you pay all kinds of upgrade fees to do so if you are absolutely bent on it. Most Windows users are not that compelled to do so.

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 10-18-2003, 08:51 PM:

Funny, I got an email saying that iTunes was now available for Windows and that I should please check it out.
I went to the Apple site but didn`t get very far. Most of the links were broken. Now please don`t tell me that is because I am viewing the site from a Windows machine.
It looks like not everything is perfect in the Mac world.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 10-18-2003, 09:59 PM:

Click on the link above in my post, Michael. It takes you right to it.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 10-18-2003, 11:28 PM:

I wrote:

quote:
I don't recall reading about the many cool "iApps" bundled *free* as well.

...and then Shane wrote:

quote:
Manny: If you get a new mac, the iApps are included.

What part of "bundled free" wasn't clear? [Confused]

...and I forgot to include my poor little Powerbook 1400 in my show-off list. [Big Grin]

EDIT -- And **now** I have to add a phuggin' Presario 2100 laptop to the collection. This edit is the first F-T post from my new Windows laptop. [puke]

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 10-19-2003, 12:01 AM:

Compaq.... NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by Ron Lacheur (Member # 1126) on 10-19-2003, 12:51 AM:

I second that Daryl. As well as Packard Hell.