Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Mics For Recording Sound Effects

This is topic Mics For Recording Sound Effects in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Shane Hoffmann (Member # 1620) on 12-14-2003, 09:36 PM:

Does anybody have any suggestions for a good microphone to record sound effects with? It will be for a short DV project that I will use Final Cut Pro to edit.

Also, has anybody used Apple Soundtrack? Will my best option be to record the sound directly onto my laptop, or should I use my camcorder to record the sound?

I'll appreciate any help you can offer.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 12-14-2003, 09:53 PM:

I use the microphone of the Canon XL1 to record all of my foleyed sound effects. You can detach it and (slightly) move it away from the camera. I record directly to the DV tape and then import into Final Cut Pro later. It's good to get the microphone fairly close to the sound effect being recorded unless it will be excessively loud. The Canon also has great manual audio level controls.

I have Apple Soundtrack and it is fun to play with for a few minutes. You can't really come up with anything incredibly original and it is very hard to end a song unless you fade it out since all of the loops are just for the middle of a song. You might be able to come up with something fitting, however. For a feebie that comes with Final Cut Pro 4, though, you can't really go wrong. But it takes up a ton of space.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 12-14-2003, 10:24 PM:

It's been a while for me... but it used to be normal to select a microphone based on the effect being recorded, the SPL expected at the record point and any noice cancelling required. I'm not sure you could do this on a more-or-less professional basis with one microphone. At the last couple of concerts I attended with my kids, I noticed that the trap sets were still being mic'd with a couple different models, and the performers had a different model still.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 12-14-2003, 10:47 PM:

If it was a point source sound I'd use a Shure SM-57. Mic positioned about 12" from the source, pointed slightly off axis. If it was a less concentrated sound I'd use a Shure SM-58. Both mics have the same cartridge (similar freq. response) inside but the pattern is wider on the "58" than the "57". If it's a wider sound, still, like a chorus or a band I'd use a condenser mic. I've got a couple AKGs that'd be nice but I forget the model. I'd record directly to CD then rip the sound from the CD onto my computer as an AIFF or AAC, using a bit rate to match the intended quality of my final movie. (If you're compressing the shit out of the final product, no need to record/rip at super high bit rates, no?)

All that begs the question of whether you actually HAVE the mics, mixing board and CD recorder. [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 12-14-2003, 11:51 PM:

I have good luck using my Electro-Voice RE-20's. Great dynamic range, overhead, and presence for voice, music, and efx. The built-in pop screen/filter is a big help.

For MOS, I use the RE-50. A great general-purpose mic.

>>> Phil

Posted by Mike Olpin (Member # 1115) on 12-15-2003, 01:14 AM:

Tube Neumann's sound great! Just don't drop them!
(He never said cost was a consideration) [Big Grin]

Posted by Jeff Stricker (Member # 224) on 12-15-2003, 06:12 AM:

I recently purchased a low cost condenser microphone (less than $100). It has an internal FET amplifier and requires 48 volt phantom supply to operate. This is my first experience with condensers (other than cheap electrets) and I must say the sound quality is quite awesome. Having said all that, though, I don't think a mic of this type would do well outdoors in the elements and wind.

Posted by Shane Hoffmann (Member # 1620) on 12-15-2003, 04:48 PM:

Randy,

Does the Shure SM-57 work well outdoors? Also, how do you go about recording directly onto a CD?

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 12-15-2003, 08:00 PM:

Well, if you're hell-bent on Shure, the SM-94 is a much better mic than the 57. Much wider, flatter freq response, and colorless. A little more pricey than the 57 but really worth it.

>>> Phil

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 12-15-2003, 09:10 PM:

What do you mean by "outdoors"? Can they withstand rain and snow? No! If you refer to their being able to handle wind/external noise? Yes. If the wind noise is too strong put a fuzz-muffin on it.

To record directly to CD, you get your mixing board and connect one of its outputs to your CD recorder and put it in record mode. Balance, level and EQ your output to the recorder. Hit the "go" button on the recorder and you're there! The resulting CD is, for all intents and purposes, a normal audio disk. Put it into your computer and rip it to HD and do with it what you will.

There are a few inefficiencies in the process. The quality of the product can vary depending on the quality of the original recording. (Your ability to balance a mic. Settings of the CD recorder.) How you rip it to HD can further degrade it. However I think for making a movie on your computer the quality is more than enough. The ease of getting the sound imported by ripping it off a CD has its advantages too.

Phil, You're probably right about the Shure mics. The ones I use every day are the "57's" and the "58's". I have a few AKG's of varying models and we still have a few old pieces of Audio Technica junk lying around. Our needs in the sound department are Spartain. My job is to get 'em on stage, kick the tire and light the fire. If the sound needs of the performance are more than that we call in the pros. (Gratuitous plug for Rosewood Sound from Syracuse, NY. [Big Grin]

) The "57's" are workhorse mics. They have their pitfalls but for 90% of what we do they are MORE than adequate. I have recorded off them and they have produced good results with a minimum of fuss. That's why I recommended them.

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 12-15-2003, 10:29 PM:

Randy, my main complaint about the 57's is their HF rise and sound coloring. As you mentioned, they are a great cost-effective workhorse.

Also, being a dynamic mic, they perform well in cold weather. Whereas the 94 is an electret condenser, it prefers a warm environment. Ummm...like me! [Razz]

Street cost for the 94 is about $190 compared to about $90 for the 57's.

>>> Phil

Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 12-16-2003, 06:29 AM:

RE-20 nice mike [Smile]

I did sound for a concert with Perry Como and this mike was under lock and key with my boss when it was not being used by Como. SM-57 / 58 have their "color" which several other ( Asian ) companies have knocked off. My preference is Sennheiser MD421 for dynamic and various brands of shot gun mikes from Sanken / Sennheiser and AT and beat up EV675A and AKG??? for omni use.

Posted by Sean M. Grimes (Member # 445) on 12-16-2003, 02:00 PM:

If you are looking for a "good" quality cheap condenser mic that is either phantom powered or battery powered check out the Marshall MXL 1006 [URL=http://www.americanmusical.com/st/aspx/i-MAS MXL1006BPKIT/en/item.htm]clicky here[/URL] it's 30hz-20khz and decently flat and a 100 bucks! I will use them for my "portable" live-recording setup. Good sensitivity and frequency response. Also a great pair of mics, the [URL=http://www.americanmusical.com/st/aspx/i-ROD NT5/en/item.htm]Rode nt5[/URL]

But for outside use I would use a shotgun or a sensitive dynamic... like the [URL=http://www.americanmusical.com/st/aspx/i-SEN MD421II/en/item.htm]sennheiser 421[/URL] .

All of the mic's a very useful in live and studio settings - for vocal, instrumental and sound effect work. Shane, are you looking for general sound effect recordings or more specific?(birds, water, black bears...) Like randy said there are quite a few necessities, but dependent on how portable you want to be, and what your current setup is, we can find a much better setup for you!

Sean

[ 12-16-2003, 03:14 PM: Message edited by: Sean M. Grimes ]

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 12-16-2003, 02:21 PM:

While the MXL 1006 is a great buy, it is very prone to "handling" noise, but OK with the shock mount. Also, being extremely sensitive, it picks up EVERYTHING and loud sounds oft times turn to mush. Like drums and cymbals for example.

Since there is tons of room in the case, a few guys have converted them to tube preamps with great results.

>>> Phil

Posted by Shane Hoffmann (Member # 1620) on 02-01-2004, 01:26 AM:

I ended up just buying a cheap radio shack mic, but hopefully the quality is good enough. Now my question is, how can I separate the audio from a dv tape. I have Final Cut Pro 3, and I would imagine there must be a way to do it in that, but I'm still learning how to use it, so my knowledge is limited. Do I need a third party app? (I only have access to Macs).

Also for the mac-users, has anyone tried to use Garageband yet? I've played with it a little bit, but I'm not sure how to get my mic connected. I tried using a cheap 1/4" to 1/8" adapter, but it says that there isn't anything attached. I was under the impression that I wouldn't need a pre-amp to connect it, and that there was an amp emulator built in (they were talking about it on techtv, i just caught the tail end of the segment). Do I need that $20 Monster adapter that Apple sells from their site?

Thanks

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 02-01-2004, 01:40 AM:

We have Neumann's for our Screen Attractions work.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 02-01-2004, 08:23 PM:

What kind of Mac do you have?

Most older Macs (CRT iMacs, for instance.) need a PlainTalk mic. That's the kind that has the preamp inside it.

You can use the same port as a line-in port to record from CD players, tape decks, etc. The PlainTalk plug is about 1/4 inch longer than normal. That's where the "phantom power" for the mic comes from. A normal length mic/line-in cable won't reach far enough to tap into the phantom power.

Some newer Macs have mic input ports but some don't. The best way is to get a USB mic adaptor. You could also use use a USB microphone.

And, yes, you can record things on your DV cam, import it into your Mac and export just the sound. You'll have to clue me in on FCP but I've done it with iMovie before.

Posted by Shane Hoffmann (Member # 1620) on 02-01-2004, 10:09 PM:

I have a 12" Powerbook G4, just about a year old now. I may try to use iMovie, as I am more familiar with that than I am with FCP. I'll let ya know how it works.