This is topic University worthwile? in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Blake Zaugg (Member # 1455) on 01-10-2004, 01:05 AM:
 
I wanted to hear what you all think about college. To continue in the theatre/film industry would it be worth the $30,000-$40,000 investment?

I have heard it said that you don't learn to ride a bike by reading a book. You only know you can do it by actually doing it.....but on the other had before splitting an atom I would hopes someone would read up on it first.
 

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Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 01-10-2004, 01:22 AM:
 
Honestly, aside from doctors and lawyers and the like, I have hardly met anyone who has a job that their education relates to.

Of course it is worth it, but you cant think of it like job training or anything like that. I'm not going for anything in particular, just to learn. Will it pay you back later on? Maybe not in monetary value but somehow it will.
 

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Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 01-10-2004, 01:28 AM:
 
What subject do you want to study?
 

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Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 01-10-2004, 01:47 AM:
 
Underwater basket weaving.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-10-2004, 04:21 AM:
 
You would be far better off by going to a tech school than any University for anything in this general line of work.

Daryl, UNT down here in Denton, TX has a great basket weaving school. They just got a new pool too. I hear it is the place for professional basket weavers, above and under water.
 

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Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 01-10-2004, 07:40 AM:
 
The education system is an endless circle in which no one can think without consulting someone. In the face of this, serenity, security, success...mean absolutely nothing.

=TMP=
 

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Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 01-10-2004, 02:03 PM:
 
Education throughout life is important.

Trade School
Apprenticeship
Internship
Jr. Collage
University
Flight School
Job Sponsored training
Self Study

University helped me get where I am today, but it wasn't the Baccalaureate in English Literature that did it. I met Ky at University and he and I eventually opened a theatre together. No university, no Ky, then I would still be working for the man making a small hourly wage.

If you don’t know what you want to do, University can be a good and fun way to find out. Your social contacts can last throughout life.

Generally the more educated you are the more money you can make. That said, the union air-conditioning technician living next door to me can afford, a new house, a wife who doesn’t work, two kids, new car payments and new boat payments. That seems more than I can afford.
 

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Posted by Jennifer Pan (Member # 2035) on 01-10-2004, 03:18 PM:
 
I'm still waiting for Spielberg to call me up... or walk up to me and say... "Hey, write a movie for me..." But aside from that I guess college will have to do... majoring in Film...or visual communications..
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 01-10-2004, 04:08 PM:
 
Ian, it wasn't the University that did it for you, it was who you met there. The saying "It's not what you know, but who you know" is 100% true. That kicks ass because I can get cool stuff and be lazy at the same time.

My recommendation to everyone is to drop out of high school. You'll meet a ton of cool people at McDonalds and even learn a second language!
 

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Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 01-10-2004, 05:39 PM:
 
I'm definitely smarter for having gone to college.

$30k - $40k seems a little low somehow for a 4yr degree.
 

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Posted by Jesse August (Member # 1798) on 01-10-2004, 05:46 PM:
 
Hands on, just don't loose a finger.
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 01-10-2004, 05:52 PM:
 
Joe said:

quote:

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The saying "It's not what you know, but who you know" is 100% true.

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I agree to get you in the door, but to stay in the house, ya gotta have the "smarts".

The school-learnin' "credentials" many times is the foot in the door.

>>> Phil
 

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Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 01-10-2004, 11:03 PM:
 
Sure, I'm young and may not know that much but College is important. In this business, it may not be necessary for everything, but it surely helps in every facet of your life. I study Speech Communication and it is just amazing how it has changed me. When one knows how to communicate well and understand why people communicate the way they do, it can help them everywhere. My main area of study is Organizational Communication, which is easily going to help me if I get the chance to move up in the business like I really want to. So many people just do not know how to communicate well (especially in my company) and it just kills. Knowing how to communicate well can help me deal with my customers well, make sure employees beneath me do a good job, and even help me to talk to all you when I need some help. So, if you're undecided when you get to college, study Speech Communication. At the least, take some courses in it because it is so worthwhile. Cheers!

AJG
 

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Posted by Adam Fraser (Member # 1074) on 01-10-2004, 11:12 PM:
 
If you are not sure about college yet, go to a community college first. They aren't as bad as people say, and you can save a lot of money. I have an AAS is business management and the cost was approx $6,000. If I ever want to go for my Bachelors most of the credits are transferrable and the total cost will be much under $30,000.

I also have a 2 year tech school degree/diploma in motorcycle repair , but that was free. My high school paid for it in lieu of taking some traditional classes.

I don't regret going to college. Although you may not remember specifics, the general knowledge you gain sure is helpful in many situations. The education also gives you something to fall back on if you get tired of the cinema industry.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 01-11-2004, 12:52 AM:
 
I would like to play the devil's advocate (sorta) and point out that going to a university does not necessarily ensure success in the job market. Choose your major very carefully. At my job there is a guy a couple of years younger than me who has a masters (in what I am not sure) and he only makes 66% of what I do. We both do the same job (video editing and other multimedia creation). Perhaps I should mention that he has even been there longer than I.
 

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Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 01-11-2004, 03:11 AM:
 
When it comes to higher education I feel that some people have the abillity to handle that level and some don't. I think it's important to make that decision and stick with it. If you feel that you can't go the long haul of four years then shoot for junior collage and go two years.
 

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Posted by Robert E. Allen (Member # 1351) on 01-11-2004, 03:27 AM:
 
The exhibition industry is going to get more complex whether you choose management or the booth or some other technical aspect and while a university degree does not guarantee you employment you will be better equipped to succeed in it with that education.
 

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Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 01-11-2004, 01:32 PM:
 
Through the mid 20th century, having a college education meant better job opportunities. And back then, many people would spend their entire carreers at one or two companies. You could almost count on retirement.

Not so today. I have known many people who have spent many years working for major companies, and a year or 2 before retirement, the company finds a way of laying-them off, buying out the retirement package, thereby screwing that loyal employee out of his/her earned retirement!

My advice to you is this: What do you ENNJOY doing! Can you make a comfortable living at what you enjoy? How versitle is this career field? Will doing this job eventually burn you out? Can you get a formal education in your chosen field?

Furthermore, be careful of choosing a career field because it is the latest "high dollar" trend. Yes, you may make major $$ for a brief period of time, but there is the possibility of the field becomming flooded, and then mix this with an economic downturn....

Educationn DOES NOT end with college! Once you have graduated and are working, you need to keep updating your knowledge in order to stay licensed, competitive, etc. This holds true for technical people, doctors, lawyers, those involved with financial and business fields, etc.

I have known many people who have graduated with degrees, and only waited until after graaduation to start looking for work. A year later, they are still unemployed, due to lack of practical experience. While you are in college, depending on your schedule, do what you can to find either part-time work in your field, or an internship so that you can start building a resume and business contacts.

Keep your grades up in school! Rather than overtaxing yourself with a zillion "impressive exra-activities" do what you can to demenstrate your competitency to your instructors, so thaat they might recommend you to prospective employers!

ut the old cliche still holds true...a peerson w/an education has a better chance of success than the person without...although I am always hearing stories to the contrary.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 01-11-2004, 01:59 PM:
 
I don't think working at a movie theater (in any area) will ever require a college degree. If it ever does, then that's just sad. Next you will need a degree to be the drive up cashier at McDonalds!
 

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Posted by Rachel Gilardi (Member # 1016) on 01-12-2004, 12:11 AM:
 
I have to go to college for a year to cut hair (what, you don't trust me with scissors??? ) but I can run my theater from top to bottom with a GED...somehow that just doesn't make sense to me. Oh well.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 01-12-2004, 08:30 AM:
 
College or trade school, Rach?
 

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Posted by Rachel Gilardi (Member # 1016) on 01-12-2004, 10:26 AM:
 
Yeah yeah, mistype. What is cosmetology school...well, on their packet it says college. I would actually call it a technical college. That better?
 

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Posted by Blake Zaugg (Member # 1455) on 01-13-2004, 01:38 PM:
 
I've done some college & univiversity, but it gets frustrating having to take courses that have nothing to do with the final goal. It's the jumping through hoops that drive me nuts. I'm going to do business/management.
 

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Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 01-13-2004, 02:07 PM:
 
Blake...

Surviving in the modern workplace entails jumping through hoops. At the very least, a college degree shows that you have some prior experience.

Along similar line of thought, obtaining a degree demonstrates what some people call "stick-to-it-ive-ness." It shows that you're not a flake and that you can finish the things that you start.

One of the things I value about my college experience is that, in retrospect, it afforded me the last great opportunity to reflect on life and people, including myself. I was able to figure out where I stood on certain issues and, by extension, I was able to arrive at a personal philosophy that was based in truth and personal beliefs as opposed to one that was based on what I had been taught by parents, priests, teachers, other kids and a limited range personal experiences.

If you can afford it, I highly recommend attending a college that is not in your home town. Take this opportunity to go out on your own. One of my roommates did not know how to change a light bulb because his parents had done everything for him back home. I went from a small island community all the way to Los Angeles which is a large city, thousands of miles away (geographically and ideologically). Some of the most important lessons I learned in college had nothing to do with the coursework. The experience is the thing.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-13-2004, 04:45 PM:
 
I agree that there is definately more to college than the sheepskin you can earn at the end.

Normally it is the first time youngsters are forced to live with other people, not of their choosing and must learn how to get along.

The sense of responsibility is turned up a notch in that it is all up to you...you succeed or you fail...it is all up to you. It is also one of the last places on growing up where a failure doesn't have as big a reprocussion.

The potential to expand ones experiences are huge at a college/university setting. The education goes FAR beyond the classroom.

Part of what a university "teaches" is not exactly what you are going to be doing in the "real world" but how to learn so you can survive better in the real world. Most jobs continiously change so you must be able to adapt and change in order to continue...being inflexible and expecting the world to stay still for you since you learned all you needed to know will eventually lead to obsolesence and unemployment.

One of the great things that colleges normally force a student to do is actually take courses outside of their "major" and it is amazing the insight that can be had from such experiences.

So...I say, if you can, have the college experience and finish it. There is indeed something to those that don't finish college, tend (but not always) to not finish anything. It all depends on why they quit.

Steve
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 01-21-2004, 03:45 PM:
 
Needed a BSEE degree to work as an engineer, but it was my experience as a projectionist that opened the door for me at Kodak in 1970. First project was helping design a 100-seat screening room. Second project (Laboratory Aim Density Control System) won an Academy Sci-Tech Award 25 years later:

http://www.film-tech.com/trailers/filmtechpytlak.html

Kodak also has an excellent in-company training program for Image Science, which all product development engineers complete. I also had to script, shoot, process, edit, and print a 10-minute training film, titled "A-Wind or B-Wind, Which Kind?", to learn filmmaking "hands-on".

I now often find myself as the "teacher", often giving training seminars in motion-picture or projection technology for customers, such as at the Association of Moving Image Archivists (AMIA) in Vancouver last November.

Careers at Kodak:

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/corp/careers/index.jhtml?pq-path=2/8/923
 

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Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 01-21-2004, 04:33 PM:
 
Please note correct spelling of "Worthwhile."

(Something I learned at University!)
 

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Posted by Michael Brown (Member # 890) on 01-21-2004, 07:43 PM:
 

quote:

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Blake wrote:
I wanted to hear what you all think about college. To continue in the theatre/film industry would it be worth the $30,000-$40,000 investment?

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What course are you looking at studying?

Give us some more info so we can comment - When you say "film industry" do you mean film making or film presentation?
 

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Posted by Greg Mueller (Member # 17) on 01-21-2004, 08:06 PM:
 
One thing about college...
If you are going to college to get a better job, you have to look forward in time to see what jobs will be in demand when you get out of college. It doesn't do any good to be very qualified for a job that there is no call for (blacksmith?). Otherwise you will be a very smart unemployed person.
The trick is figuring out what will be in demand in the future.
 

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Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 01-21-2004, 08:12 PM:
 
Are they still teaching blacksmithing in college!?
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 01-21-2004, 08:16 PM:
 
My college had a blacksmith shop across the street... (seriously)
 

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Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 01-21-2004, 08:21 PM:
 
Now why doesn't THAT surprise me?
 

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Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 01-21-2004, 08:40 PM:
 

quote:

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Next you will need a degree to be the drive up cashier at McDonalds!

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quote:

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it gets frustrating having to take courses that have nothing to do with the final goal

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quote: Frank Dubrois

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Degree's aren't worth the paper their written on anymore.

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That really depends on a lot of different variables.

What kind of degree is being judged? A four year liberal arts degree isn't worth shit unless you're planning to study something specific at the masters and/or doctorate level.

Anyone who went to what I call a "football university" (basically any giant sized state university with a major NCAA Division I college football team) and spent their four or more years there partying and changing majors all the time would have indeed wasted their money (or more likely a lot of their parents' money).

Lots of jobs require at least a specialized bachelors degree just to get an interview. Many professions require a specific masters degree and some job fields even add certification exams to that.

In short, there's very few decent paying jobs any American is going to get armed only a high school diploma. Around these parts you're going to be waiting tables and trying to get on at the Goodyear Tire plant.

The graphic design industry (my field of work) has lots of different kinds of people with widely varying levels of qualification and talent working in this field or just trying to gain entry into it. "Graphic Artist" seems like a cool job to have even though you won't get rich doing that for a living. Since a great deal of art is subjective a lot of fuck ups out there think they can fake it being a designer.

The problem is there is a shit load of nuts and bolts knowledge that one really needs to have to be a productive graphic artist. No one is going to figure out all that stuff going the "self taught" bullshit route. I was good at painting and drawing well before I went to art school. It took going to art school to get my talents focused and make me think more carefully about what would go into a project.

Last year when we were hiring for a design job (the candidate would mainly be doing LED-based billboard design work) we interviewed a lot of different people. It went exactly how I expected. The worst candidates were all self taught and sold themselves based on what graphics applications they claimed they knew. The best candidates were ones with portfolios of work to show and four year art degrees. We hired one of those degreed people, even though he asked for more money than the non-degreed amateurs. We were more interested in hiring someone who could do the work and do it well.
 

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Posted by Mike Heenan (Member # 392) on 06-07-2007, 06:26 PM:
 
No matter what your goals in life are or whatever degree you have or dont have, the fact of the matter remains:


 

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Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 06-07-2007, 06:45 PM:
 
Unless the degree is in engineering, medicine, law, etc. where you actually will need to know something, the important thing isn't what or whether you learned anything but that you have a degree. There is no point in trying to bullshit a prospective employer as to whether you have that degree either. It's very easy to verify today.
 

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Posted by Joshua Waaland (Member # 287) on 06-07-2007, 10:57 PM:
 
I find it funny that as I am grueling my way through Calculus and working on my Mechanical Engineering degree, most engineers I talk to never use any math higher than algebra. I just finished Calculus 3 this past spring and I only have one math class left, Differential Equations.

I never considered myself a good student. I got mostly C's, D's, and F's in high school. My report card always had comments by the teachers that said "student does not apply himself" or "student not living up to his potential". I used to hate school and especially math. As a result of my laziness and a lack of self esteem, I always thought I was stupid and couldn't do any better.

After I was in the real world for a couple of years and worked in enough shops I realized I wasn't a dumb as I thought. It soon hit me that I was going to have to get a degree to make any real money. So back to school I went. I tested at a Prep Math level and had to start at the bottom. I went through Prep Math, College Algebra, Precalculus, Calc 1, Calc 2, and finally Calc 3. The first three did not count towards my degree either. They were simply remedial.

It was hard, I won't lie to you. I had been out of school for several years and I would try so hard to understand the material. I would spend 4-5 hours a day studying. I would throw my book across the room because I was so upset and frustrated. Thank God for my wife. She was my positive reinforcement and I am thankful for her. Over the next few years I learned how to study and I learned how to determine what was important and what wasn't. I also learned that I could do anything if I applied myself. This has given me much greater self esteem and helped me in my career already. Last week I demonstrated a machine to 30 people while giving a presentation on it with no preparation. No way I would have been able to do that several years ago! Hell, I even learned that I love math!

So to answer your question of whether college is worth it, ABSOLUTELY! The lessons you learn will last a lifetime.
 

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Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 06-07-2007, 11:46 PM:
 

quote:

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University worthwile?

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Sure...it could help you spel beter.
 

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Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 06-08-2007, 03:30 AM:
 
Amen Josh!

Whether or not the degree is bullshit or not depends on the field.

For example, my department and degree are ABET accredited. Furthermore, our department has strong ties to both SME and SAE. Our faculty all have extensive industry experience...they are not just academics...and our advisement board are made up of people from industry many of whom are potential high $$ employers. We have an extensive HAAS CNC learning center and Miller has just done an extensive job of re-equiping our welding lab! Our faculty regularily has people from industry come in and give lectures and demos and we regurarily take tours of various shops around town. All this translates into wonderful resources for the students...its just up to the student to take advantage of these opportunities. My degree program qualifies students to take SME and FE Engineer Certification exams...which is alsways nice to have. Anyhow, our student projects are real-world based, and I have already worked in industry where my college-knowledge exactly mirrored real-world practices. And a lot of my college work has also turned into a nice portfolio that I can take along on job-interviews...my portfolio has already helped me to extablish employment.
 

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Posted by Joshua Waaland (Member # 287) on 06-08-2007, 07:06 AM:
 

quote:

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...and Miller has just done an extensive job of re-equiping our welding lab!

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Miller is a great company. We make a submerged arc welding tractor for them. Lincoln Electric is another good company and they are right here in Cleveland. Last week I had to go to a regional GAWDA (Gases And Welding Distributors Association) meeting in East Lansing, Michigan. My boss and I sat at a table with a bunch of other Lincoln guys. We ate breakfast and were bs-ing and they introduced the keynote speaker. The guy next to me stood up and they introduced him as the CEO and Chairman of Lincoln Electric. I had no idea who he was. I thought that was kind of cool. One of the few positives of this job.
 

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Posted by Peter Berrett (Member # 672) on 06-08-2007, 07:13 AM:
 
Hi all

I would strongly support people considering further study. I have done several degrees and it has assisted me considerably in my career (accountancy) as well introduced me to various interesting things (eg forensic accounting).

There was earlier mention of Astronauts. I would simply point out - how many current astronauts have never studied for a degree? Not many I suspect. Even the head of NASA is studying for a further degree (he has lots).

But before rushing off to Uni the important question to ask is - what do I want to be or to do? A doctor, talk show host, film producer...? Once you have worked that out look at the qualifications you require to get into that job and then advance to a higher level within that profession. You want to work at McDonalds? That's fine - but what do you want to do - serve fries, manage a store, work at head office, dress up as Ronald? Your choice will determine what qualifications or education (trade qualifications are just as useful - look at how much plumbers get paid) you will need.

cheers Peter BBus (Acc) Grad Dip Adv Tax Grad Dip Pub Admin. MTax
 

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Posted by Rick Raskin (Member # 1561) on 06-08-2007, 08:44 AM:
 
There are only two things that will get your foot in the door: experience or a degree.

In the past you could hire on without a degree and get experience. But in today's world that just isn't so. Employers are degree snobs when it comes to hiring. They will take a dergeed know nothing over a non-degreed applicant just about every time. Its unfortunate, but that's the way it is.

In my experience, many of the better jobs require that you prepare reports and papers in addition to doing live presentations. Be sure that as part of your continuing education you focus on your writing skills.

In my other life, we would interview prospective employees and have them write a few paragraphs about why they wanted the job. I've seen many who were unable to communicate in intelligible sentences. Needless to say, they lost.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 06-08-2007, 10:24 AM:
 

quote: Rick Raskin

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In the past you could hire on without a degree and get experience. But in today's world that just isn't so. Employers are degree snobs when it comes to hiring. They will take a dergeed know nothing over a non-degreed applicant just about every time.

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I wish that was true in my field, but it isn't.

There's too many dumbass employers out there who don't know good work versus bad work and wouldn't know talent when they see it. So they look at résumés for listings of QuarkXpress and Photoshop somewhere and hire the person willing to work for the lowest level of pay -usually some non-degreed no-talent hack who ought to be rotating tires for a living.

In the graphic design industry, there is a large class of wannabe graphic designers who insist formal education is completely unnecessary. They're always ready with claims of "someone they know" with no formal training being great while everyone they see with a degree doing shit work. Their hyperbole doesn't line up with reality.

The truth is the most serious and talented artists typically find some way to get into art schools and other workshops and continue studying in some manner well after they have their degree. They know they're not going to grow as an artist without taking those critical steps. It is exceedingly rare that I see any adult doing what I would consider professional quality graphic design or illustration and lacking any formal design education. The reality, at least in how it relates to the graphics field, is the real "know nothings" are the ones who were self taught with no training.

Finally, it's not an employer's job to take someone without any skills and train them how to do a job. The prospective employee must have something to bring to the table, such as a talent for that line of work. Customers are paying for a certain level of expertise. The person doing the work must be able to deliver.
 

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Posted by Gerard S. Cohen (Member # 994) on 06-08-2007, 04:23 PM:
 
Last night my wife and I threw a birthhday party for my daughter and six of her former high-school friends, all of whom are age 28. Around the table in this Thai garden restaurant were a Doctor of Science in physics, a lawyer, a teacher of special ed., an economist, a grad student applying for medical school, a film and TV producer, and a professor. Of much greater age were my wife, a pediatrician, and myself,a retired teacher and projectionist. All have post-graduate degrees or are working towards them, and all have experience in teaching or tutoring.

It struck me what strong friendships these students maintain, from high school through their tenth class reunion, and how their lives have been enriched by their education, goals and achievements. Some interrupted their studies for Peace-Corps type activities or studies abroad, or took leaves only to return with greater dedication.

Most of the excellent posts in this thread, it seems to me, consider the financial and security rewards of higher education.
That's natural in our technical field, where the monetary rewards are so often so low and insecure.

But the non-financial rewards of a so-called liberal education, which includes history, philosophy, science, anthropology, sociology, languages, literature, art, music, gymnastics, logic and mathematics, and the culture of past civilizations, helps the individual to grow towards better understanding of himself and the changing world he or she inhabits.

Of course, such education need not be limited to college or universitiy and can continue throughout one's life. But the social and intellectual stimulation of students in close proximity enables one to confront new and challenging ideas and ideologies in a compressed time and place.

For those most in need of a vocation providing an income, time is most precious, and a career or technical school might be a temporal necessity. But the goals of a liberal education still exist for enrichment of another kind.
 

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Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 06-09-2007, 09:09 AM:
 
In any profession, YOU are required to get licensed, certified, prepared, educated, etc. For this, you are then paid.

If you are (by some miracle) actually hired when not prepared, you are then underpaid until you are up-to-speed; sometimes forever as a result of them having to pay you for doing what you should have done yourself.

When you need another similar job later; the cycle repeats itself.

BTW This "advice" comes to you free of charge from a person who has a B.A. in Eng. and some law school. My first cinema job was Altec Service who thought the Eng. was Engineering, and not English....literature. Louis
 

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Posted by Joel N. Weber II (Member # 3530) on 06-09-2007, 11:18 AM:
 
In looking at my friends who are in their 20s or so and don't have college degrees, those who can get jobs in the Boston area as computer system administrators seem to get paid fairly decently (though probably not as much as doctors/lawyers/etc), and those who don't have those technical skills seem to get paid significantly less.

One of my friends went back to school as the dot-com era came to an end, and I think he had as easier time finding system administration jobs before he got his degree.

College can be expensive, and I know various people who have spent some time being college students without getting a degree. If they went to MIT, I get the impression that, for the most part, the technicality that they didn't actually graduate doesn't cause them a whole lot of difficulty in getting jobs (especially if they spent 3 or 4 or 5 years being an MIT student); otherwise, their time spent in college doesn't seem to help them at all in getting jobs.

(MIT may well not be the only school that can lead to good jobs without quite graduating, and computer system administration may well not be the only field that can pay decently without college, but those are the examples I have seen in the real world.)

I think weighing whether you're realistically going to finish the degree before you start investing the money is a good move. I know a few people who have college debt from unfinished degrees that makes their life worse than it would have been if they hadn't gone to college; at least one or two of those people don't feel like they are getting enough benefit to justify the annoyances of that debt.
 

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Posted by Gerard S. Cohen (Member # 994) on 06-09-2007, 01:48 PM:
 
Why do some employers insist on a college degree when such preparation seems to have nothing to do with the work the employee is being hired to perform?

Well, for one thing, the diploma is recognition that the student was able to negociate a structured learning experience over a period of years costing much time, effort, money and sacrifice. He or she has proved having enough dedication, persistance, initiative or simply sitzfleish for the long haul, including the ability to choose and research topics and carry out projects such as papers, theses, or laboratory experiments that must be scheduled to meet deadlines.

Therefore, the degree is looked upon as some confirmation of a person's future performance reliability. This may be important with younger applicants, who have shorter resumes of work experience.

Of course, some have faked credentials through the use of diploma mills, forged documents or through the use of a PHG degree [ Papa Hat Gelt or "Daddy Has Money", when a university conveys a diploma on the C- average son or daughter of a politician or other wealthy trustee or benefactor.] But when fraud is discovered the results can be harsh, as when several unlicensed cosmetic surgeons were jailed after disfiguring the faces and bodies of patients in New York recently.
 

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Posted by Damien Taylor (Member # 4255) on 06-10-2007, 04:08 AM:
 
Whats wrong with Macdonald's the drive-up cashier?
 

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Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 06-10-2007, 05:07 AM:
 
Nothing actually. Pays $10/hour to start around here. And it can lead to career progression via Mickey D's own Hamburger University that can turn out to be pretty darn good. Store and district managers can and do make up to $80,000 or more a year. Mickey D's has always been pretty good about growing their own talent and hiring/promoting from within. Not bad at all if that's what you really want to do.
 

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Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 06-10-2007, 05:47 PM:
 
The store manage maybe not but the district manager probably needs to have the degree.
 

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Posted by Mike Heenan (Member # 392) on 06-10-2007, 05:51 PM:
 
I remember a thing from The Man Show:

"You could make $80,000 a year as a district supervisor for Jack in the Box, but you still work at Jack in the Box!"

They were talking about jobs to impress chicks with or something like that (firefighters, policemen etc). Funny stuff.
 

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Posted by Peter Berrett (Member # 672) on 06-10-2007, 09:20 PM:
 
Maybe if this girl had gone to Uni she might not be where she is now.



cheers Peter

Paris is everywhere. Resistance is futile.
 

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Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 06-11-2007, 10:04 PM:
 
I doubt it stupidity easily overpowers education.
 

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Posted by Mike Heenan (Member # 392) on 06-11-2007, 10:36 PM:
 
The thing with her is, when she gets out in 40+ days, whatever is left, she's still a billionairess and will milk it for all it's worth with a book and countless interviews no doubt. Wow I can't believe I'm defending Paris Hilton. Same goes with Joe Francis of Girls Gone Wild fame... I bet he never went to college.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 06-11-2007, 10:52 PM:
 
I still think the story would be good for a sleazy women in prison movie. Bring on the steamy shower scenes.
 

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Posted by Phil Blake (Member # 2012) on 06-12-2007, 01:41 AM:
 
a remake of 1985 movie "Red Heat" (Linda Blair & Sylvia Kristel) you get the money Bobby and I'll get the girls !
 

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Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 06-18-2007, 03:05 AM:
 
As I previously said about college:

What do you enjoy?
What is your talent?
Can you make a $$ career with your enjoyment and talent?
Then go about selecting your road to education.

In my education I have been most fortunate to have some wonderful teachers and mentors with extensive industry experience and strong ties to industry and professional organizations.

As a student at Arizona State University Polytechnic, if it was not for my faculty, ASU would be the last university I'd ever consider attending!!!! Why? Because with all of Michael Crow's talk of his vision of "The New American University" the university support services and administration just do not understand that students are in fact PAYING CUSTOMERS!

For example, student housing is a mess!!! The lease agreement for Williams Campus Housing can be seen on-line, and for the high $$ rent that is paid, you'd think that inmates in Sheriff Joe's Tent City have more rights!! Among the crap that Williams Campus Housing has pulled on me (and other students) include: Losing mail and parcel deliveries, walking into rooms unannounced (including abusing student's personal property), telling students to pay for their own room repairs not related to abuse or neglect, refusing to improve safety and security and in many ways jeoppardizing student safety by putting name-tags on room dooors denoting male and female residents, and the list goes on. Then they have the nerve to tell students that students have no right to complain because the rent is cheaper than the surrounding community and there is the convienance of living on campus. And should a student complain or say something against the administartion they threaten the student with disciplinary action, or at least try to intimidate the student. Believe me, there are many students around here that are really fed up!
 

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Posted by Blake Zaugg (Member # 1455) on 06-23-2007, 03:13 PM:
 
That was posted way back in 2004. SO much has changed since then.
 

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Posted by Mike Heenan (Member # 392) on 06-23-2007, 08:15 PM:
 
Well you can't say that and not give us the full story, come on!
 

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Posted by Blake Zaugg (Member # 1455) on 06-27-2007, 04:10 PM:
 
Well, about a year after the original post and taking a few classes "a la carte". My wife and I moved to the US to be closer to her family. Long story short, I'm now the VP Operations for a small chain based in Louisiana.

I didn'y enroll a specific program. For me it has worked out just taking courses seminars as needed when I had the time and wanted/needed to learn more about something.

I think we can all agree that there isn't one set path for everyone, and learning is never a bad bet.
 

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Posted by Christopher Meredith (Member # 3767) on 06-28-2007, 04:05 PM:
 
Post-secondary education is not necessary for higher level movie theater operation. If you work for a big chain, this is particularly apparent.
 

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