Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Walt Disney Feature Animation Florida closes!

This is topic Walt Disney Feature Animation Florida closes! in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=002872

Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 01-14-2004, 04:38 PM:

I'm surprised this hasn't surfaced on here yet.

After stopping production on "A Few Good Ghosts" and laying off 50 animators in October, as of Monday, Walt Disney has shut down the Walt Disney Feature Animation Flodia studio. Here is a commentary on the situation from the Orlando Sentinel:

quote:

THE END?
A change in Disney animation strategy leaves a colorful legacy cloaked in black.

By: Roger Moore, Sentinel Movie Critic

Disney, the company that rode to glory on the colorful, animated backs of a mouse and seven dwarfs, took a giant step getting out of hand-drawn animation altogether Monday when it shut down Disney Feature Animation Florida, its Orlando studio.

It's a "cost-cutting" move from a company that isn't so much soul-searching as selling its soul -- and selling short. This follows years of overseas studio closures as well as recent layoffs here and at the studio's flagship animation operation in Burbank. Disney has even been selling off the animation gear, down to the desks the animators used to do their scribbling.

Disney isn't getting out of animation entirely. But the company is abandoning a way of making films that has connected with audiences for more than 70 years, an expensive, labor-intensive and painstaking style of animation that always had been worth the expense -- up to now.

That means that the Orlando-made Brother Bear and next April's computer-and-hand-animated Home on the Range will be the last Disney cartoons animated by artists sketching and painting and making the characters move. They will be the last films that Walt himself could have picked up a pencil and pitched in on, were he thawed out from that freezer where urban legend has long ensconced him.

No more Fantasia hippos in tutus, dancing with caped alligators, given their fluid, comic dimension by painstaking, cell-by-cell drawing and painting.

No more little elephants who can fly or little Hawaiian girls who go their own way, breaking our hearts because feelings transmit better when they go straight from hand to page, without a silicon chip in between.

Computer-animated movies from Toy Story and Finding Nemo to Dreamworks' Shrek have boasted of the increasing "realism" of the forms and motion. But nobody goes to a cartoon for the realism. We want abstract, the whimsy, the personality and humanity that rendering figures by hand, frame by frame, gives us. Disney, the studio that invented and perfected the "classic" hand-drawn animated feature film with 1937's Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, 1941's Dumbo and 1967's The Jungle Book, will never win a best animated feature Oscar for the sort of handcrafted films that made the studio famous. That's ironic, given that this is an Oscar category pretty much invented to honor films such as Beauty and the Beast (1991), The Lion King (1994) and Tarzan (1999).

Sure, all those films had a bit of computer assistance, here and there. And Disney expects to share in Pixar's computer-animated 3-D glory if Finding Nemo cops the animation Oscar this year. But already the buzz is building for the eccentric and personal -- and decidedly hand-drawn -- French cartoon The4 Triplets of Belleville. Disney doesn't make them like that anymore. (And if you believe the Disney spin that it has two more traditionally animated features "in development," I have some Florida swamp land I'd like to show you -- right next to the multimillion-dollar animation headquarters being abandoned at Walt Disney World.

For Orlando, this is a bitter blow, and not just for the more than 250 animators who will either be uprooted or have to change careers. While Burbank was frittering away millions on ideas bad (Hercules, Atlantis: The Lost Empire, The Emperor's New Groove) and badly executed (Treasure Planet), the Orlando operation was Disney's home of the hits.

The little studio that started as a walk-through attraction at the Disney-MGM Studios theme park earned its stripes by making Roger Rabbit shorts. It later became home to much of the animation division's best work -- the Eastern-art inspired Mulan, the retro water colored Lilo & Stitch -- films that recalled the golden age of animation while reminding Disney that story and emotion are what brings cartoons to life.

Disney's historic difficulties in wrestling with stories that weren't the whitest of white bread disappeared when the work was done far from the eyes of the big bosses in California. The Chinese folk tale Mulan, a dazzlingly stylish telling of the African-American Legend of John Henry, the watercolor Hawaiians of Lilo & Stitch and the American Indians of Brother Bear all rolled out of Orlando.

If Brother Bear -- the weakest of the Orlando-made cartoons but still a moneymaker -- suffered from the same story and character problems that have troubled the Burbank factory of late, it may be because of neglect. The front office stopped sweating the details on these films years ago. It has long been more concerned with renewing its contract with Pixar, slashing costs and replicating the fluky box-office bonanza of The Lion King, the hand-drawn megahit that made accountants salivate and the studio overextend.

After the success of Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin and finally The Lion King, the rare and doted-on animation "events" that came every few years -- roughly once in a childhood -- became something the studio wanted to count on a couple of times a year. Films that might have gone direct to video earlier now found their way into theaters. Worst of all, those cut-rate films, from 2000's The Tigger Movie to 2001's Recess, cost less than producing a classic -- and earned money.

The pricey "event" films became devalued -- compromised, formulaic, or attached too strongly to a single clever notion (Gerald Scarfe's distinct animation style in 1997's Hercules, for instance).

But that's happened before. Disney has weathered dry spells, when the ideas and the animators got stale and the management crotchety; the whole Robin Hood (1973) through Oliver & Company (1988) era was the most recent. Other animation houses wither outsourced their hand-drawn animation overseas or got out of it altogether.

But there was always somebody at Disney -- some credit Disney nephew Roy Disney, who just quit the board in a struggle over power and vision -- who wouldn't let the bean counters kill off Walt's animation division.

It took Jeffery Katzenberg to micro manage animation back to life. Now he's the K in Dreamworks SKG, making "tradigital" Disney knockoffs such as Spirit: Stallion of the Cimarron and Sinbad.

Maybe the staggering success of the computer-animated Toy Story, Finding Nemo, and Shrek has truly rendered hand-drawing characters "old-fashioned" or impractical. Maybe spotting a common Florida lizard and being inspired to make an alien named Stitch skitter rather than walk, as Orlando animator Alex Kuperschmidt did, can be done better with fewer animators playing with a computer -- in Burbank.

But take away Nemo's 3-D novelty. Give its story and jokes to men and women with pens and ink. It wouldn't have been the same movie. The folks who drew Beauty and the Beast or Mulan might have made it even better.

Disney's current leadership can sputter all they want about the nature of animation evolving, about how they're not "killing" anything, about the need to slash costs to boost a deflated stock price. But the House that Walt Built may never be the same.

Disney boss Michael Eisner is at an age where he should start thinking about his Disney legacy. Killing the thing that made Disney Disney is not the way he should want to be remembered.

----

I got a few more articles with facts and figures i'll post when I find them...

=TMP=

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 01-14-2004, 04:48 PM:

A year or so ago they closed the BIG animation studio here in Glendale, CA. Laid-off a shitload of people and sent all the work to Mexico.

When will people realize that the "new" Disney corp and management are a bunch of hucksters?

I WILL NEVER support that shitty company! Eisner is, and has been for many years, an extremely overpaid asshole.

>>> Phil

Posted by David Favel (Member # 1125) on 01-14-2004, 11:20 PM:

What was the beter looking movie, Brother Bear or Monsters Inc?

Sign of the times guys. Thats why Firestone are doing so well & Acme waggon wheels are out of business. Welcome to the 21st Century.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-15-2004, 12:23 AM:

The type of animation doesn't matter. What really matters is a good story. If Brother Bear had been computer animated, it still would have been disappointing because the story was lacking.

The biggest achievement in computer animated movies is not the animation itself; it's the fact that there has yet to be one released with a weak storyline.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 01-15-2004, 01:37 PM:

quote:
What was the better looking movie, Brother Bear or Monsters Inc?

"Monsters" was Pixar. Anyone here know how much influence Disney has over the story lines coming out of there? My impression was that Disney's basically just distributing Pixar's output.

Bro Bear was Disney, and like a lot of their animated output over past years has a thinly veiled social message "buried" into it at one level or another. Personally, I think THAT has had as much to do with Disney's demise as anything. People just don't go to theaters to get lectured to, whether the lesson is roughly subliminal or not. There's just something I find offensive about a cartoon attempting to influence my kids' environmental values.

Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 01-15-2004, 02:38 PM:

Mike:

Titan AE? Final Fantasy?

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 01-15-2004, 03:50 PM:

Final Fantasy had some excellent quality animation. But the story was a total snore, and that killed it at the box office.

As far as the Pixar movies go, I see them as strictly creations of Pixar and no one else. Disney just throws in some extra dollars of financing to get distribution rights.

The Disney company right now has no soul and no balls. Shutting down the hand-drawn animation wing is a big mistake. Analog animation is central to the core of the Disney image. If they kill that they effectively kill the company --especially if Pixar ever scores a better distribution deal with a rival movie studio or distributes movies themselves.

What they should be doing with is exploring more experimental analog forms of animation along with keeping the lengthy develomental schedules. Instead they're just churning out shitty stories with a cheaper and cheaper budget and faster turn around time demands. The "Home on the Range" movie looks more like a project meant as a straight to video title. Like the old toy repairman in "Toy Story 2" says, "you can't rush art!"

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 01-16-2004, 09:25 AM:

quote:
The type of animation doesn't matter. What really matters is a good story.

HEAR! HEAR! Mike has it pegged! Parallels are continually drawn (no pun) between 3D and traditional 2D animation, when they are two different things. 3D computer animation is simply another way to tell a story -- it is not a successor to cartoon animation.

What the article didn't state is that traditional animation lives on, mainly on television, and that work is being done on computers, too. It's not a 3D/2D, either/or thing. The drawings and animation are still done by hand. Only now, they're inked, opaqued, and shot on computers.

quote:
By: Roger Moore, Sentinel Movie Critic

Oh, good, I was wondering what happened to him. He was my favorite "Bond". [Razz]

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-16-2004, 08:50 PM:

Titan AE was traditional animation, wasn't it? (I never saw it...OR Final Fantasy.)

Posted by Christian Appelt (Member # 1067) on 01-16-2004, 09:06 PM:

quote:
3D computer animation is simply another way to tell a story -- it is not a successor to cartoon animation.

Right, 3D computer animation is visually much closer to stop-motion puppet animation than to traditional cel animation. 3D characters move in a virtual world with photographic properties like textures, lighting, camera lens focal length, so going 3D is not an evolution of 2D animation.

What these idiots that run the Disney company forget is that Disney was not only a pioneer of animation technique, but he cared more about story than anybody else in the animation business. For many years, the company has been turning out xerox copies of old Disney films slightly updated, but they have lost any contact with new modes of storytelling.

I am very often surprised what good and funny animation is done for TV, but nothing of that comes from Disney. They also have neglected the possibility of making animation a medium for adult viewers, not in the Ralph Bakshi way, but in the serious way that good Japanese animation films like PRINCESS MONONOKE or AKIRA have. I would also have much preferred a new LOTR trilogy in good 2D or 3D animation style to the lice action version.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-16-2004, 09:48 PM:

Hey, You are all missing the big thing here!! They are killing it now so they can bring it all back in 10 years. Assholes they are, hucksters they prove to be, these guys must also run the crappy labs out there as well. But I bet it makes a comeback in the future at some point. That sort of comeback will sell tickets.

Mark @ CLACO

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 01-16-2004, 09:53 PM:

Here's the disturbing thing. The asshole MBA "suits" out there are killing off the analog animation methods because they fantasize about cashing in on the 3D thing for a fast buck. Typically computer illiterate, these guys figure since it is all computerized it can be cranked out at light speed. Do these guys realize 3D animation is slower, more difficult and more costly than traditional hand drawn methods? In most fields of computer graphics, professional often start out with hand-drawn sketches and color comps before they ever touch the computer. It is just too slow and cumbersome as hell to do it all in the computer.

The suits also have to realize the limits of technology, time and the talent pool. Learning a 3D app like Maya isn't exactly like tackling the latest version of CorelDRAW. You have a monster learning curve, expensive hardware requirements, very few training centers and few users courageous enough to give the app a try.

Alias/Wavefront is so eager to grow the talent pool that it offers free "personal learning editions" of all their big name software. Not just Maya either. You can download PLE versions of Alias Studio (for industrial design) or even the Alias Auto Studio program, which runs upwards of $30,000 if you actually buy a copy. Jeez!

Anyway, I'm getting off on a tangent. The point I'm trying to make is that there are not very many people out there that can do 3D well. You've got Pixar, which arguably represents the top level talent in the world. PDI is not bad either and Square did some good work on "Final Fantasy." After that, things really get stretched. For instance, look at how much fake looking CGI we have to stomach in many live action movies!

I just don't see where this bonanza is that the suits are dreaming about. Their notion is especially silly considering how horribly difficult it has been for people working in the graphic arts industry over the past decade, particularly in recent years. How do they expect a new crop of talent to come along and invest in lots of expensive new hardware so they can learn expensive new software when most are barely able to even make ends meet!?

Posted by Joseph Pandolfi (Member # 223) on 01-17-2004, 12:12 PM:

I visited the animation studio last month while on vacation. And the place was deserted. They told the tour group that they just finish "Home on The Range" and they are on kind of a hiatus right now and expect to be back at the beginning of 2004.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-17-2004, 12:51 PM:

I wonder when they'll get the bright idea to "computer enhance" the classics like Bambi, Snow White etc. Make them look like Pixar films and re-release them. It'd be a gold mine! Course they'll have to put a few hip hop songs in.

Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 01-17-2004, 01:58 PM:

Here's another article with a few more details:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040112/ap_on_bi_ge/disney_layoffs_4

[b]Disney Closes Orlando Animation Studio[b]
By GARY GENTILE, AP Business Writer

LOS ANGELES - The Walt Disney Co. is shuttering its Orlando, Fla.-based animation studio, cutting about 258 jobs, as the company shifts from hand-drawn animated films to computer-generated features and videos.

Some of the employees will be offered jobs in Burbank, Calif., Disney said Monday in announcing the move.

The company has been steadily trimming its animation department for the past few years, from a peak of 2,200 employees in 1999 to 600, all based in Burbank after Monday's announcement. Disney has shuttered similar animation outposts in Paris and Tokyo, which were opened at the height of the boom in hand-drawn animation.

Over the past few years, as computer-generated 3-D films proved far more successful at the box office than traditional 2-D films, Disney shifted from having a large number of animators on staff to hiring on a per-film basis.

The move resulted in layoffs and major salary cuts and an emphasis on producing less costly 2-D films. The 2002 success "Lilo & Stitch," for instance, was produced for about $80 million compared with $140 million for the box-office flop "Treasure Planet," released the same year.

Disney has also been releasing a larger number of animated movies and sequels direct to video, a move that boots profits by vastly reducing the cost of production.

The Orlando studio, opened in 1989, has animated some of Disney's more popular films, including "Lilo & Stitch," "Mulan," and this year's "Brother Bear."

But Disney has had its most success with animated films it produces in cooperation with Pixar Animation Studio, which uses computers. Hits produced that way include "Finding Nemo," "Toy Story" and "Monsters Inc."

The closing of its Orlando unit may, in fact, signal that Disney is close to announcing an extension of its deal with Pixar, according to one analyst.

That deal is set to expire in 2006 with the release of "Cars," the fifth film in the agreement that has Disney and Pixar split profits from the movies. Pixar has been pushing for a new pact where it owns its movies and pays Disney a set fee to distribute them.

If Disney believed its Pixar relationship was about to significantly change or even fall apart, it would be beefing up its internal animation capacity instead of cutting it, according to David Miller, a financial analyst with Sander Morris Harris.

"It infers that Disney will be producing a lower number of animated films in the coming years," Miller said Monday. "Where is the film production going to come from? Most likely from Pixar, should they extend their co-production agreement."

Disney has only two animated films in production, both of which are computer-generated — "Chicken Little," due in 2005, and "A Day With Wilbur Robinson," set for release in 2006.

The studio canceled production earlier this year on "A Few Good Ghosts," which was a hybrid of hand-drawn and computer animation.

The Disney film "Home on the Range," a hand-drawn movie produced in Burbank, is set to open in April. The Disney film "Teacher's Pet," a big-screen version of its popular television show, opens in theaters this week.

The studio does have some traditional hand-drawn feature films in development, according to Disney spokeswoman Heidi Trotta.

Disney shares rose 1 cent to close at $24.88 in trading Monday on the New York Stock Exchange.

-----

Maybe part of the deal with Pixar was, "The only animated films you release will be from us if you still want to split profits." and Disney complied... that would be pretty stupid, though.

=TMP=

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 01-17-2004, 11:20 PM:

Well, since they're closing, I'll put in for an animation disc... wait! Disney uses their own punch pattern and the cels are larger too, aren't they? In that case, I'll take an animation desk without the disc. Anybody have a contact for equipment sales? Art, are you still out there?

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 01-18-2004, 12:15 AM:

Looks like those desks, discs and peg bars may end up with the same animators at their new venture, Legacy Animation Studios.

Disney Animators Form Legacy Animation In Florida

January 09, 2004

A group of former Walt Disney Feature Animation Florida animators have banded together to open Legacy Animation Studios, a new animation production studio in Winter Garden, Florida, close to Orlando in late January 2004. The studio will offer a full-range of traditional hand-drawn (or 2D) animation services for film, television and commercials. Legacy will also be dedicated to developing original properties for television and film as well as produce its own feature film project.

"We believe that traditionally animated films are still a viable form of entertainment," says Legacy Animation Studios directing manager, Eddie Pittman. "Our goal is to create quality animated films with compelling stories and strong characters and to continue Walt Disney's legacy of hand-drawn animation."

The combined experience of the Legacy team amounts to more than 25 animated films, including THE LITTLE MERMAID, BEAUTY AND THE BEAST, ALADDIN, MULAN and LILO AND STITCH.

Pittman has worked on such animated features as MULAN, TARZAN, and LILO & STITCH. He has taught for the renowned Computer Animation program at Ringling School of Art and Design, and his popular drawing classes taught around Central Florida the Disney Florida studio recommended to aspiring animators. Recently, he produced and directed LEGENDS OF THE NIGHT SKY: ORION, the world's first full dome (360°) traditionally animated movie.

Veteran assistant animator David Nethery is on board as creative director for Legacy. Nethery has nearly 20 years of experience as an animation artist. His credits include such characters as 'Meeko' the raccoon from POCAHONTAS, 'Mushu' from MULAN 'Cobra Bubbles' from LILO AND STITCH, and most recently 'Tug' and 'Koda's Mom' from BROTHER BEAR.

Legacy has three projects in development, including a short film that will begin production in late January 2004. For more information contact Pittman at (407) 538-8938 or via e-mail at eddie@legacyanimation.net.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 01-18-2004, 10:00 AM:

Thanks, Paul! That sure was quick, didn't take them long to form a new deal. The question I have is, where do people get the money to start things like this? I mean, the closing was just announced, and already they're starting a project!?

Here's their website!

Legacy Animation Studios

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 01-18-2004, 09:29 PM:

It may have been just publicly announced but they've obviously known about it for some time. The domain was registered on October 7.

Kind of like some people from another industry related company did last year.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 01-29-2004, 10:50 PM:

I said this a few days ago:

quote:
Analog animation is central to the core of the Disney image. If they kill that they effectively kill the company --especially if Pixar ever scores a better distribution deal with a rival movie studio or distributes movies themselves.

Apparently, I took some "smart pills" that day or something. Check out this interesting story from CNN/Money:

Pixar Dumps Disney
Studio headed by Steve Jobs says it will seek other distributors for its films starting in 2006.
January 29, 2004: 7:20 PM EST

NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Pixar Animation Studios Inc. said Thursday it ended talks with Walt Disney Co. to extend a five-picture deal for Disney to distribute Pixar films.

Pixar, the computer animation pioneer founded by Apple Computer Inc.'s Steve Jobs, said it would begin talks with other companies to distribute its films starting in 2006.

"After ten months of trying to strike a deal with Disney, we're moving on," Pixar CEO Steve Jobs said in a statement. "We've had a great run together -- one of the most successful in Hollywood history -- and it's a shame that Disney won't be participating in Pixar's future successes."

The move was a clear setback to Disney, which reaped a financial and critical bonanza from the partnership and has struggled with its own strategy for animation.

Disney said Pixar's final offer would have cost Disney hundreds of millions of dollars from the existing distribution deal and was not sweet enough going forward.

"Although we would have enjoyed continuing our successful collaboration under mutually acceptable terms, Pixar understandably has chosen to go its own way to grow as an independent company," Disney Chairman Michael Eisner said in a statement.

Pixar (PIXR: Research, Estimates) stock rose initially in after-hours trading but later fell back, while Disney (DIS: Research, Estimates) stock tumbled about 6 percent.

Other studios are already expressing interest in forging a relationship with Pixar. A Warner Bros. spokesperson told CNN, "We would love to be in business with Pixar. They are a great company." Warner Bros. has not yet engaged in formal talks with the animator.

Pixar said its five films so far -- including "Toy Story", "Monsters Inc." and "Finding Nemo" -- have taken in $2.5 billion at the worldwide box office and sold more than 150 million DVDs and videos. "Finding Nemo" was highest grossing animated film of all time.

Pixar had complained that the terms of the distribution deal were tilted too heavily in Disney's favor. Under the deal, Pixar was responsible for content, while Disney handled distribution and marketing.

In exchange, Pixar has split profits with Disney and pays the studio a distribution fee of between 10 percent to 15 percent of revenue. Based on its blockbuster success, Pixar has argued that it should keep the profit itself and cut the fees its studio partner charges.

Many observers had expected Pixar and Disney to keep talking at least until the middle of this year and to eventually reach a deal since both had gained so much from their partnership.

"It makes it look like Eisner did something wrong again, but we shouldn't jump to conclusions. This could be a negotiating tactic by Pixar as well," said Patrick McKeigue, an analyst at Independence Investment, which holds Disney shares.
Roy Disney and ally Stanley Gold, who both resigned from the Disney board late last year and called for Chief Executive and Chairman Michael Eisner to step down, placed the blame on Eisner.

"More than a year ago, we warned the Disney board that we believed Michael Eisner was mismanaging the Pixar partnership and expressed our concern that the relationship was in jeopardy," they said.

Disney noted in its statement that it owns rights to all the Pixar movies, as well as two more animated features yet to be delivered -- "The Incredibles" due this year and "Cars", expected in 2005.

Disney will distribute those two films with Pixar getting its share of the profits. Disney also has the right to finance and produce sequels if Pixar declines to co-finance and produce them under the current agreement.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 01-30-2004, 09:39 AM:

I laughed out loud when I heard this the other day! Poetic justice. Disney shouldn't have been so hot to shut it's Florida studio. Now, they've lost their animators AND their meal ticket.

Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 01-30-2004, 10:06 AM:

GOOD! It's always a pleasure to watch someone "cocky" get kicked in the balls! [thumbsup]

What would REALLY be the icing on the cake is if Pixar struck a deal with Legacy Animation Studios! [eyes]

=TMP=

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-30-2004, 11:51 AM:

I wonder when Pixar will release its first "flop." Gotta happen at some point. Then the shoe'll be on the other foot.

I still think the Disney marketing machine will be sorely missed.

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 01-30-2004, 03:34 PM:

quote:
GOOD! It's always a pleasure to watch someone "cocky" get kicked in the balls!

Sounds more like two big corps with CEOs with too big heads and too much ego.

Jobs has ALWAYS been a "cocky" asshole. Starting from the Atari 800/Apple II days when I knew him. Back then, we were both nothing... now he's something, and I'm still nothing... go figure! [Big Grin]

>>> Phil

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 01-30-2004, 03:37 PM:

I still have my working Atari 800, and lots of the games to go with it. Go PAC MAN and FROGGER.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 01-30-2004, 04:10 PM:

Phil, you will always be something here...
[Razz]

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 01-30-2004, 04:26 PM:

Cool John! Great machine! (I was on the Atari side of the Atari/Apple "war".)

I was into the Scott Adams Adventures and role-playing games like Temple Of Doom as well as the "arcade" games.

All of these old 800 games are on the inet along with the 800 emulators to play them on a PC. Lots O' Fun!

I sometimes regret putting my all my Atari stuff in the dumpster about 5 years ago. It was one of those moments while sifting thru stuff to take/toss while moving to a new residence. I thought... "Why am I hanging on to this stuff"... HA! What a jerk!

I was into Those machines big time back then. I even bought a 400 cuz they had that hot GTIA graphics chip so I could swap out the CTIA in my 800 for even better game graphics.

I dumped my 800 and XL. Had the full 48k and the upgrades to 128k RAM CARD, and whatever else bells & whistles were avaible back then.

I had 2ea 810 disc drives w/Hill mods for servo-controlled motor speed and digital speed readout.

The cassette tape recorder, the port extender, joysticks, analog controllers, all the books, language and game cartridges, over 300 5-1/4 floppies with all the games, etc.

I even had a Hayes 1200 modem.

ALL went into the trash... [Roll Eyes]

Oh well, I still wouldn't have room for it all, but it was fun for the years of 1979 to about 1987 when I got my 1st IBM DOS machine.

>>> Phil

Posted by Webster Colcord (Member # 1955) on 01-30-2004, 05:05 PM:

Sure Jobs is cocky, but Pixar/ Lassetter need someone like that to butt heads with the Hollywood assholes, otherwise they would get eaten alive by the likes of Katzenberg and Eisner. And going public was such a smart thing for them to do, it gives them the capital that they need to "float" for awhile if they have a flop (highly unlikely).

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-30-2004, 05:47 PM:

I think Jobs should be cocky! They should also form their own distribution company and screw all the others out there. They certainly dont need anyones help!

At one of my service stops the projectionist there is a retired animator who worked for Disney Animation fomr 1948 to 1955. He mentioned that as stupid as Eisner is, Roy Disney is just as stupid if not more so. He said they really just need to clean house and start over.

Interestingly this guy also animated the opening title sequence for "The Great Race" and put the sparkle in Tony Curtis's teeth all in 65mm!! This guys getting up there in age but is absolutely ascinating to talk with.

Tim, You comming through SLC anytime soon?

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 01-30-2004, 06:16 PM:

Webster said:

quote:
...to butt heads with the Hollywood assholes...

Gosh, you sure are well informed...I can tell....

Just FYI... Steve-O has done his share of "eating"...

Ummm...not that I have any interest, care, or sympathy for ANY of those "players!"

>>> Phil

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 01-30-2004, 06:24 PM:

Hey, Mark. Not in the foreseeable future, I'm on a dedicated between Philly and Boston several times a week now. Pays pretty good. I was through Utah a couple months ago on 70, but just long enough to pickup 15. I waved a hidee to ya. Beautiful countryside ya got in them parts. [Smile]

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 01-30-2004, 11:55 PM:

Pixar will not release a flop if they continue to follow the current "formula" that has worked so well:

1. "It's the story, stupid." The Pixar guys bust their ass developing a script PROPERLY. No idea is safe from being amputated either, no matter whose ego is involved. They'll have a team work longer on a script that it takes for the entire development cycle for a lot of films. After at least two or three years, then they start animating.

2. "Work your ass off." The effort Pixar puts into its movies is second to none. Honestly, you can tell when a movie studio went through the motions on a project versus one where the team broke their backs on a labor of love. In all the Pixar movies you see lots of extra visual touches and extra layers of clever attitude that didn't necessarily have to be added. The director wanted a certain thing and he usually gets a lot more. The show's quality rose to a higher level for the extra effort. That's something a lot of mediocre movie industry sales-droid types will never understand.

3. Don't water projects down with "cheaper" and "faster." It takes several years for a Pixar movie to go from concept to release. If they allow some asshole bean-counter in there to micro-manage "two hits in the same amount of time on half the budget" then Pixar will have an embarrasing flop. And the cock-sucker MBA that ordered all the cuts will point the finger of blame at animators or any other people with less clout.

Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 02-01-2004, 12:28 PM:

Yeah. Disney needs Pixar now more than Pixar needs the Disney marketing machine. There hasn't been a non-pixar disney movie that made over $150M since Lion King. From the looks of that, it looks like the "marketing machine" has a screw loose.

Off-topic a bit, I have two Atari 400s. My favorite game/computer system! Even programming in BASIC seems fun on that thing. Playing Asteroids or Space Invaders on my huge 100" screen is awesome!

Phil, you could have gotten a couple hundred at least for all your stuff on ebay. [Frown]

Shame to waste good electronics. If I hadn't already been 15 minutes late to work, I would have stopped and fetched a SegaCD system I saw sitting atop its original box in the trash! [Eek!]

-- but the working Super Nintendo I found a week later kinda made up for it. [Smile]

=TMP=