Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Tired Of Being Snipped on Ebay

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Posted by Jonathan M. Crist (Member # 413) on 01-19-2004, 04:19 PM:

I admit that I am not a big Ebay user. I probably only bid on couple of items a year - usually only something that I can't get somewhere else.

Today I lost an auction on a piece of equipment that I really needed. Nothing major but something I have not been able to come acoss for a long time. For the last ten days and until the last 5 seconds of the auction, I was the only bidder. I would have bid higher if I had the time.

The use of these computerized 'auction snipe' programs has soured my taste for Ebay. It is the functional equivlent of the mechanized computer trading which has helped ruin the secruities and mutual fund markets.

As of today I am done with Ebay.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-19-2004, 05:01 PM:

I've always said Ebay should have a deal where if there is a bid in the last hour of an auction that the auction should continue for another hour. Every subsequent bid that is placed during that "final hour" resets the countdown clock to another 60 minutes. Not only would it increase revenue for Ebay, but to the seller as well. Plus it would make things more fair to bidders. Everybody wins.

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 01-19-2004, 05:03 PM:

If the 'sniper' bid more than you were willing to pay, then what's the problem? You would have lost the auction anyways...

In my dealings with Ebay I have taken the "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em..." attitude with regard to 'sniping' and 'sandbagging', but I 'play fair' and do it manually... I do agree that the automatic bidding/sniping clients take the fun out of it...

Too bad you are done with Ebay. [Frown]

Brad: I can see where you are coming from, but I can see the potential for abuse of such a system to artificially inflate the price of an item by 'shills' (which is illegal in many states and prohibited on Ebay) or just incrementally increasing bids by small amounts by 'joke bidders' to effectively allow an auction to go on indefinitely... then Nobody wins. [Frown]

Just my $.02

-Aaron

Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 01-19-2004, 05:32 PM:

I don't see the problem either. I buy and sell on ebay and when I bid on something I enter the most I am going to pay for it. If someone outbids me, at any time, then it would have been more that I was willing to pay.

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 01-19-2004, 05:37 PM:

I don't see what the problem is. You (Jonathon) weren't going "by the book" either. You're not supposed to bid in the traditional sense of the word; you're supposed to put down the absolute highest amount you would be willing to pay. If you'd done that you would either have won the item or lost it to someone, whether a human or a bot doesn't matter, who was willing to pay more than you did. If you think about it putting in the amount that represents your true maximum comfort level makes it less likely you will lose your head in a bit a competitive fury as the auction ends. Doing otherwise means you have an expectation that others won't put down their maximum and the auction will end before they change it.

I sometimes swoop in at the last minute too as do many/most people but I don't whine about it if I lose.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-19-2004, 05:43 PM:

Aaron, obviously there would have to be some sort of limit, preferably one randomly set by ebay or by the seller. The reason for my thoughts is that a lot of people don't understand the theory of placing your bid for the highest amount you are willing to pay. Those people lose out as well as the sellers (and ebay). For the people who do read how ebay works, I agree it is a pretty fair way to bid, but quite often people decide at the end that they are willing to pay more. Just a thought. I personally only use ebay maybe once or twice a year.

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 01-19-2004, 05:59 PM:

If you had entered your initial bid as the maximum amount you were willing to pay, would you have won? It seems like a lot of people still don't understand how the proxy bidding thing works. Assume the reserve is $20, and you're willing to pay up to $100 for the item (though obviously you'd like to pay less). There are no bids -- you are the first bidder. You enter $100, as that's the most you want to pay. The current bid will then show $20. The sniper comes along in the last 5 seconds of the auction and bids $40. He loses, you get the item for $40. If the sniper had bid $150, you're out of the running anyway because you weren't willing to go over $100.

Sorry if I'm covering old ground, but it seems like a whole lot of ebayers don't understand proxy bidding. [Frown]

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 01-19-2004, 06:08 PM:

I only ever bought an item on ebay once, so I am not very familiar with the bidding system either. But I understand that if you enter a bid of, say $150, that doesn`t necessarily mean that you are going to pay that much in the end. As I understand it, ebay bids for you in small steps ($5?) up to that sum. So if the 2nd highest bidder says $70, then you get the item for $75 (or $80 or whatever the increment is). Correct?

Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 01-19-2004, 06:57 PM:

It usually bids in $.25 incerments if I recall correctly

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 01-19-2004, 07:01 PM:

The increment varies with the current price and goes up in stages. But, yes, the winning bidder only pays one increment higher than the 2nd highest bidder's maximum amount.

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 01-19-2004, 07:08 PM:

I agree with Chris and think he said it best. I always bid the max "I" want to pay for something. If I get it, great...If I don't... eh? So what? I'll live. [Big Grin]

However, I will admit that I manually snipe. It's all a big game. I have NO sympathy for the whiners. If ya wanted it, ya shudda increased your bid before the we-bitching hour!

Been on eBay since 1997 and have bought and sold. I've spent waaay too much $$$ there! And NO Daryl, not on the stuff ***YOU*** think!

I actually had some numb-nuts cuss me out in email cuz I outbid him with 2 seconds left. Poor Baby! What an asshole! Him, not me! [Razz]

>>> Phil

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 01-19-2004, 07:12 PM:

What, this stuff?

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-19-2004, 07:18 PM:

I agree totally with Dave S. on this one. You need to bid what you are ewilling to pay fomr something...or what you feel it is worth to you.....perhaps it would still be alot less than a new whatever it is. You can of course also get the bidding software and use it just like the guy that probably stole the bid out from under you does. Infrequent bidding or infrequent use of E-bay deosn't mean a thing....you just need to go in there prepared.
Mark @ CLACO

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 01-19-2004, 08:24 PM:

I don't see the problem. Ebay does a very good job of explaining the rules in detail, so ignorance of their policies shouldn't be a problem. If you don't like the rules, don't buy stuff on Ebay.

"Sniping" may be annoying, but it's perfectly legitimate and is a very common practice (yes I've done it personally, though not in an automated way).

Anyone who bids on anything before the final day of the auction is a fool who will almost invariably be outbid (there are lots of fools bidding on stuff on Ebay). That's part of the "game." Again, if you don't like it, then don't play. There are plenty of other ways (often cheaper!) to buy stuff than Ebay.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-19-2004, 08:42 PM:

Another thing to never do is to bid before the last moment. If you put a bid in...then someone else does...you are effectively bidding against yourself.

As the others have said...have the highest amount you will pay in mind...wait until the last minute (if you can) and put that bid in...if it was yours to win, you will if it wasn't it wasn't.

I have won just about anything I was really after. Those that I lost I wouldn't have paid as much as the winner would. Seems fair to me.

Another nifty feature is the "Buy Now" . Sure it may not be the best price but if you want it and can affor the Buy now price...then there is no mystery or time wasted...you simply point, click pay and receive...just like any on-line shopping.

Steve

Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 01-21-2004, 12:02 PM:

I almost always snipe at the last few seconds. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose. If someone's maximum bid is higher, it does not matter if I bid a half second before auction end, I will lose.

IMO, sniping helps the buyer more than the seller since you don't have time to change your mind and raise your maximum bid. That is the way Ebay works. If I did not like it, I always have the option of taking my business elsewhere.

/Mitchell

Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 01-21-2004, 01:50 PM:

The trick to "sniping" is to bid an odd amount in the last few seconds. I put in the most I'm willing to pay, but it irritates me when someone beats me by $.50. Surely if I was there when the auction ended, I wouldn't mind to pay the extra buck... but anyway...

I'd bid something like $13.82 in the last few seconds, increasing my max bid. Dunno what it does, but I've won many auctions like that. A look at the bids reveals someone placed 3 bids in the last 15 seconds, all going by the default increment. It stopped when it hit my odd bid... [Confused]

=TMP=

Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 01-21-2004, 02:09 PM:

I am also a sniper. I can see the argument against computerized sniping programs (do these even exist?!) but otherwise bidding is bidding, no matter when you do it.

As a seller I also do not mind sniping. When I enter in the starting price that is the mininum amount I am willing to sell my item for, anything above that is just icing on the cake.

Posted by Jonathan M. Crist (Member # 413) on 01-21-2004, 02:29 PM:

Dustin - Computerized 'Auction Snipe' programs have been around for quite some time now.

Auctionsnipe.com will snipe any auction for the bidder at the very last second (the time is programed into the auctionsnipe computer which actually submits the bid on the bidder behalf). For a fee of course........ (1% of the bid).

Posted by Sean Weitzel (Member # 244) on 01-21-2004, 03:06 PM:

I use the hammersnipe tool mainly so that I won't forget to bid on an item - especially if the auction ends in the middle of the night. I don't like to put in a bid proxy way in advance of the end of the auction as it seems to only artifically inflate the price. I put in exactly what I'm willing to pay and set it for 3 seconds to the end. If an item is sitting at $10.00 and someone put in $25.00 as their max, and I queue hammersnipe to bid $23.00, then they still win anyway. It's the capability to schedule bids is what I like.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 01-21-2004, 04:31 PM:

So is it "sniping" (rhymes with "typing") or "snipping" (rhymes with "dripping")?

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 01-21-2004, 05:27 PM:

Sniping, as in

Occasionally I snipe (manually) on eBay too. Lately I've been using Japan Yahoo Auctions to find the anime and j-film related stuff I'm looking for. There, the auction ending time is bumped back on each bid, so sniping doesn't work.

Posted by Paul Turner (Member # 832) on 01-22-2004, 12:11 PM:

If it's a few minutes before the end of the auction, I hit time.gov and sync my computer clock with it. Then do a ctrl-n for a new page. On the new page I figure my max bid, fill it in and go all the way thru the bidding process until just before Ihit the button and submitt my bid. Switch back to the original page of the auction and F5 (refresh) until the last 15 seconds of the auction. If the otehr snipers haven't gone over your max bid, switch to your bidding page and hit the submit button. Your bid will usually hit eBay a few seconds before the end of the auction if you are on a cable modem. I've lost to higher bids and a few times my bid got hung up and didn't go in in time. But, it usually works.