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Manslaughter verdict for cannibal

A German court has convicted self-confessed cannibal Armin Meiwes of manslaughter and sentenced him to eight years and six months in prison. Meiwes, 42, admitted killing and eating Bernd Juergen Brandes after sex and hours of sado-masochism but insisted his victim had volunteered.

It has been Germany's most sensational trial for decades.

The verdict falls well short of the prosecution's demand for a 15-year sentence for sexual murder. The defence had sought a verdict of illegal euthanasia, carrying a far shorter sentence of six months to five years, on the grounds that it had been a 'killing on request'.

But while rejecting the defence's argument, the court also ruled that Meiwes had had no 'base motives' for the crime and settled on a manslaughter verdict, as Judge Volker Muetze told the packed courtroom. Meiwes had not, he said, committed a murder in the legal sense 'but a behaviour which is condemned in our society - namely the killing and butchering of a human being'.

'Seen legally, this is manslaughter, killing a person without being a murderer,' he said. The judge described the killer and his victim as 'two deeply psychologically disturbed people who both wanted something from the other'. The case could make legal history in a country which has no laws against cannibalism.

Video killing

Dressed in a dark suit and tie, Meiwes sat impassively as the verdict was read out in court. The BBC's Ray Furlong says that for Meiwes, the verdict was a good result. The well-spoken computer technician killed and ate Brandes three years ago, after placing an advert on the internet. It was, he told the court in Kassel, the realisation of a dream he had nurtured ever since having schoolboy fantasies about consuming his classmates.

Despite this, psychologists said he was mentally fit to stand trial. His victim, also in his 40s, bought a one-way ticket to the defendant's home village and spent an evening with him, before volunteering to be killed. The court also saw a grisly home video of Brandes being stabbed to death.

Memoirs

The defence had argued that the crime was a form of mercy killing but the prosecution said this did not apply because the victim had been mentally disturbed. Brandes 'asked to be stabbed to death,' according to Meiwes. A psychiatrist who testified at the trial said Meiwes had a 'schizoid personality' but was not mentally ill.

Investigators found he had been in internet contact with more than 200 people who shared his fantasies. Meiwes, who may be eligible for early release for good behaviour, has said he plans to write his memoirs in order to persuade other people with similar fantasies to seek help in time.

The internet cannibal, who ate the flesh of Brandes over a period of several months, defrosting cuts from his freezer, may now be the most notorious cannibal in modern German history. However, his record pales in comparison with the crimes of his countryman Fritz Haarmann, the 'Monster of Hanover'. Haarmann, a butcher, murdered at least 24 boys and youths between 1918 and 1924 and sold their flesh to customers seeking cheap meat.

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Link to story.

Tried any tasty Californians yet, Michael?
 

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Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 01-30-2004, 07:01 AM:
 
Wow.

Dont eat Californians. I imagine that they have a leathery taste, being out in the sun all the time, you know?

Jeffrey Dahmer ate too, but his victims were unwilling.

What a topic variety we have here!
 

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Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 01-30-2004, 09:00 AM:
 
This will be a movie, you wait and see. Maybe not theatrical, but at least a movie-of-the-week.

Or Fox will make a reality series of it.
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 01-30-2004, 12:29 PM:
 
The next CBS "Survivor": "Survivor - CANNIBAL". The contestants have knives, and absolutely NOTHING else available for food. Talk about "back-stabbing".
 

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Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 01-30-2004, 02:45 PM:
 
Or on British telly we could have 'I'm not a cannibal, get me out of here!' (Link to the programme I'm talking about)...
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-30-2004, 05:50 PM:
 
Are the Germans that stupid? He only got 8 and a half years......? Idiotts, he should be served up to the other inmates at the prison.
Mark
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 01-30-2004, 06:58 PM:
 

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Dont eat Californians. I imagine that they have a leathery taste, being out in the sun all the time, you know?

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Oh PULEEZE Bruce! What a lame statement! EVERYONE knows we all taste like "chicken"...

I hear when you went to Dahmer's place, he gave you the cold shoulder...

>>> Phil
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-30-2004, 07:06 PM:
 
Phil, Thats cuz Bruce had Film-Guard on his breath and Jeffery sized him up by the smell!

Mark
 

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Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 01-30-2004, 07:27 PM:
 
Phil:

CHICKEN?

I think that ham is more like it. Hee Hee Hee...

As for my long-neglected FG drinking problems, I am so well preserved that I no longer look like the old geezer that you see to the left. My skin has a nice rubbery texture that oozes FG. I run a cleaning rag over my skin and clean film. Keeping it inside makes it go further.

I never got the cold shoulder from Dahmer. He always offered the skin off his back.
 

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Posted by Roger Katz (Member # 1625) on 01-30-2004, 08:30 PM:
 
Too bad he didn't get the death penalty. After all, I'm sure his last meal request would be quite interesting.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 01-30-2004, 11:43 PM:
 
I would not recommend a cannibal eat anyone from Oklahoma. Odds are he would dine on a crystal-meth addict (or "tweeker" if you want to use the slang term). With all the poisonous shit that goes into meth the cannibal would probably die from his meal. Or at least get a bad case of the shits.
 

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Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 01-31-2004, 04:02 AM:
 

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Too bad he didn't get the death penalty.

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I think there is no Western European state which still has it. Some still have it in theory (I think) but don`t execute it anymore.

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The principle on which this is based is the same on which his conviction is based: That no one under any circumstances can take the life of another human being.

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so you would have had to have deliberately run me over (without intending to kill me) for it to be manslaughter?

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If I understand this case correctly, the bottom line is that Germany quite simply has no law against cannibalism, becaue no-one thought there'd ever be any need for one.

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Which country has a law against cannibalism?

I wonder why they did not sentence him to life for violating one of the many bizarre EU regulations on food trade...

BTW, this seems to be a good time to rerelease CANNIBAL GIRLS or the notorious italian MAN EATER (ANTHROPOPHAGUS) at your local cinema.
 

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Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 02-03-2004, 01:07 AM:
 
I think I remember from some trivia question that Idaho is the only US state with a law against cannibalism.

I have always pictured the Donner Party wearing paper hats. I don't know why.
 

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Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 03-04-2004, 11:44 AM:
 
There was a documentary (The Man who Ate his Lover) about this on British television on Monday night this week. I was only able to see part of it, as I did not get in from work until it was half way through. It was even odder than I expected.

He had advertised several times for people to be slaughtered and consummed, and had many replies, some of whom he had met, but all of whom, except the last one, quit before actually being killed.

The last one travelled a considerable distance, by train, but the man was unable to kill him the first time. Unable in what way, I'm not sure. The 'meat' went away, but came back later, and they agreed to try again. They removed their clothes, and sat naked, drinking coffee.

They then went upstairs to the killing room, where his penis was cut off, and cut in half, each man intending to eat one half. They found it too tough to eat, so the killer took it downstairs to fry it. His culinary skills seem to have been somewhat limited, as he ended up burning it to the point where it was inedible. At this point the 'meat' was still alive, laying in a bath, bleeding profusly, and presumeably in great pain. The slaughterer returned, and finished him off with a knife through the neck, before butchering the body, disposing of the shin and innards, packing the meat in plastic boxes, and putting them in his freezer.

He claimed that the meat tasted like pork; we are supposed to be quite similar to pigs, I've seen human flesh, and with the blood washed away, it looks quite like raw pork, so I suppose the taste shouldn't be too surprising.

Aparently, there are several cannibalism sites on the Internet where this sort of thing is discussed, and there have been cases where people have been hung up with meat hooks through their body, and that sort of thing.

I try to read, and understand, people who think differently to myself. In most cases I can understand, even if I don't agree, but in this case, it is totally beyond me why anyone would want to have this done to them; I can't even begin to understand what is going through their mind.

Apparently he was quite a normal, pleasant person, nobody who knew him thought there was anything odd about him. Something was said at the end of the programme about him gaining certain attributes of his victim by eatng his body, his health and fitness, good looks and ability to speak English were mentioned. Wheher he seriously thought he would gain these, or it was some sort of fantasy, I don't know. It's just weird; there have got to be easier ways of learing English!

I'm trying to learn German, hope to visit Berlin this year; maybe I should eat Michael.
 

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Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 03-04-2004, 12:54 PM:
 
Eat Micheal..... and risk a diabetic reaction from his belly full of marzipan
 

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Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 03-04-2004, 04:33 PM:
 
I am not in Berlin anymore, so you can`t go there and eat me. Don`t bother trying to learn "German". It is too difficult for English people anyway. They don`t even get the name of the country right...
 

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Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 03-05-2004, 05:34 AM:
 
maybe that's because it's totally different from language to language -- germany, allemania (sp?), tyskland, etc. derived, i believe, from names of different germanic tribes. but why would the germans name themselves after the dutch?

carl
 

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Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 03-05-2004, 06:24 AM:
 
'Allemand' is what the French call Germany. At a guess, the English word 'German[y]' comes from the Latin, as in Tacitus's Germania.

And as for German being too complicated for the English, if they will use stupid, unnecessary and overcomplicating grammatical devices such as gendered nouns and the like, no wonder we can't be bothered to learn it! I don't think it's any coincidence that English is the most widely used (if measured by the criterion of geographical distribution) language in the world. Its grammar is comparatively straightforward, it is easily adaptable to a wide range of regional and international dialects which can almost always be cross-understood, and what's more you only need 26 characters to express its entire vocabulary in writing.
 

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Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 03-05-2004, 06:25 AM:
 
'Allemand' is what the French call Germany. At a guess, the English word 'German[y]' comes from the Latin, as in Tacitus's Germania.

And as for German being too complicated for the English, if they will use stupid, unnecessary and overcomplicating grammatical devices such as gendered nouns and the like, no wonder most of us can't be bothered to learn it!

I don't think it's any coincidence that English is the most widely used (if measured by the criterion of geographical distribution) language in the world. Its grammar is comparatively straightforward, it is easily adaptable to a wide range of regional and international variations which can almost always be cross-understood, and what's more you only need 26 characters to express its entire vocabulary in writing.

Sorry about the double-post - my browser froze during the first attempt to send, so I pressed 'stop' and sent it again. It had obviously gone through the first time.
 

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Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 03-05-2004, 07:01 AM:
 
The word "German" was coined by Caesar as a collective term for all the barbaric tribes east of the Rhine which were not Celts. Though these people were conscious of their relationship amonst each other (based on similar languages and folklore), they had no collective term for themselves until the 11th century AD when the word "diutisc"("deutsch", "teutsch", "dietsc", "duutsc", and other local variations) became widely used as a term for all the "common people" (that`s what the word means) and their language as opposed to Latin, the language of the learned and cleric. The "Dutch" language is originally a northwestern "German" dialect which has become its own language due to the long time in which the Netherlands have been their own political entity. They call their language "Nederlands" or "Hollands". "German" and "Dutch" are still very similar, the pronunciation and spelling are very different, but the grammar and most words are basically the same. You can quickly learn to understand the other language if you try just a little. The "Pennsylvania Dutch" dialect is named after deutsch as in "German", not as in "Dutch".
So, if our English friends had a clue what is going on in the rest of Europe, they would call me and my fellow countrymen "Dutch" and the "Dutch" Netherlanders or Hollanders or something like that.
Leo: English is not so widespread because it is easy and practical, but because of the extensive English colonial activities, and more recently due to the far reaching influence of the US which also has English as language due to past colonial activities.
 

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Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 03-06-2004, 02:38 AM:
 

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if they will use stupid, unnecessary and overcomplicating grammatical devices such as gendered nouns and the like, no wonder most of us can't be bothered to learn it!

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Är det möjligtvis så att ni studerar/studerat svenska?

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