Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: iTunes -- Missing Files!

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Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 02-18-2004, 08:49 PM:

Mac OS X 10.3.2
iTunes 4.2

Suddenly thousands of songs (from over 550 artists) have gone missing from my hard drive. The folders are all there but the actual files are gone.

Fortunately, nearly everything was backed-up but I'd really like to know what caused this so that I can avoid it in the future.

Has this happened to anyone else?

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 02-18-2004, 09:07 PM:

Have you burned any of the AAC-format files to CD? Doesn't iTunes limit where the files can be played and how many times you can burn them to CD before they "expire"?

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 02-18-2004, 09:09 PM:

Sounds like iTunes is policing your system. It determines what is pirated and what isn't and gets rid of the pirated stuff. OK maybe (hopefully) not.

I have noticed that unless you set it up otherwise, iTunes really sucks. If you are listening to a song and press the DELETE key, it will not only delete the song from the playlist, but from the drive as well. The way iTunes manages its files is horrendous. Did you do a hard drive search for ".mp3" and see what comes up? 10.3 is a really goofy OS and it can do odd things like that as well.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 02-18-2004, 09:31 PM:

You can only burn the same songs/playlists to CD 10 times but, AFAIK, if you rearrange the playlists to make new ones (even if they are all the same songs in a different order) you can burn them another 10 times.

I have heard about some problems where iTune's LIBRARY files get corrupted or lost but I have never heard of an instance where the MP3 or AAC, et. al. files get deleted. (Unless you accidentally delte them yourself... I don't think you did that, though.) The library file is different than the actual music files. It only helps iTunes keep track of which songs are on your computer and the playlists you have made.

If iTunes tells you it can't find your music, the library file may be corrupted. Trash it and iTunes will create a new one the next time it runs. You'll have to tell the program where all your music files are and then you'll have to rebuild your playlists from scratch.

The most common instances where iTunes loses your music is when the files reside on a different volume/partition than the iTunes App. It can also occur when you reinstall/update the program.

Since iTunes now lets you make MP3 CDs as well as audio CDs backing up your files SHOULD be a lot easier. If you have an iPod you can also recover songs back to your HD from the iPod... PROVIDED you downloaded the songs to the iPod from the same computer in the first place.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 02-18-2004, 09:39 PM:

I use iPods so I don't burn CD's too much anymore. Besides, I have yet to make a CD with music I downloaded from iTunes. As far as that goes, I think the restriction is that you can burn 10 CDs of an entire album. Beyond that, you have to rearrange the songs. Something like that. In any event, it doesn't apply to my situation.

Interesting idea about the "iTunes Police" but I ripped these songs off my own CDs.

Also, these songs were still present in the iTunes display. Only the actual files had disappeared.

I suspect it is a problem with iTunes but here's something to think about:

Assuming there is a problem with the hard drive, what is the likelihood of hundreds of folders being emptied without the folders themselves disappearing, too?

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 02-18-2004, 09:44 PM:

Repair permissions.

Run fsck -y

Run your daily, weekly and monthly scripts.

Replace the damaged johnson rod.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 02-18-2004, 10:04 PM:

My "johnson rod" is damaged? [Eek!]

I can replace it?

How cool! [thumbsup]

For real?

Very important fact that I forgot to mention: I discovered a folder called "lost+found" which contained a handful of iTunes files (in numbered folders). Not even close to what was missing, tho.

That "lost+found" folder makes me believe this is an iTunes "glitch gone wild."

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 02-18-2004, 11:20 PM:

Oh, yeah! One thing I forgot to mention. If you want to recover songs to your computer from your iPod, don't forget! If you have your iPod/System Prefs set to "Auto-Sync" your iPod and computer every time you plug it in to the FW port, things can be added or deleted before you get the chance to recover the music!

Turn that feature off before you start the recovery operation!

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 02-18-2004, 11:21 PM:

The hard drive has now crashed.

(There is a backup.)

What could have caused my main drive to crash?

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 02-19-2004, 01:42 AM:

What tells you that it's a HD crash and not a system conflict of some kind?

Have you tried booting up in Safe Mode? (Hold the SHIFT key down upon cold boot.)

It will force a file system check and will boot up with minimum system and allow you to troubleshoot the problem. Check out this page at Apple.com for info on troubleshooting startup issues.

If that doesn't solve the problem you may need to use Disk Warrior to check/repair the hard drive. Apple's Disk Utility only performs basic checks and repairs.

If that doesn't solve the problem, an erase/re-install operation is in order. If that doesn't work, your HD may have, indeed, crashed. In that case, you'll probably have to send the computer back to the Mother Ship unless it's a problem you can handle yourself.

PS: When it comes to disk diagnostic & repair utilities, stay away from Norton! It's well known to fuck up more computers than it repairs. TechTool Pro is another option but public opinion leans toward DiskWarrior.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 02-19-2004, 02:07 AM:

Geez, after slogging through the above posts, I'll just stick to my good olde CD player and/or Victrola.

Posted by Stephen Brown (Member # 292) on 02-19-2004, 06:55 AM:

A couple of good sources for all things i-tunes and i-pod...

iPodlounge

iPod Hacks

Sounds like your database file is corrupted. You should be able to reimport all the music if you can find the original DB file and trash it.

Steve Brown

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 02-19-2004, 07:45 AM:

It's not a database issue because the files really did disappear off the HD.

I'm pretty sure that the drive crashed because it made funny mechanical sounds. Click, Click, Drrrrr, Click, Click, Drrrr......

It started making those sounds after I had restored the missing files. iTunes was in the middle of importing & analyzing the files when the crash occurred.

I quit iTunes and was about to try again when I got the first of two error messages. The first one 'dimmed' all my open windows and told me to reboot the computer, which I did. Then I got the second message saying that I had inserted a drive that could not be read! That was the external FireWire drive.

The system drive is okay. The drive with the iTunes files is an external drive. Come to think of it, I had to replace the iTunes drive last year; this is my 2nd HD for storing the MP3s and AACs; it's only about 6 months old.

Could the FireWire case be to blame? It was common to both drives.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 02-19-2004, 08:32 AM:

quote:
The first one 'dimmed' all my open windows and told me to reboot the computer, which I did.

That is a "Captain Panic" or "Colonel Panic". This is when the captain or colonel which is at the core of your system screws up. Usually it is an external peripheral issue, though Microsoft's Entourage e-mail program also bothers the captain/colonel. Maybe your external hard drive is screwed, or at least the firewire port. I've seen external firewire drives destroy ports before. I avoid external firewire drives like the plague that can be.

Posted by Mike Olpin (Member # 1115) on 02-19-2004, 12:58 PM:

I had a Pyro-1394 drive kit that destroyed one of the ports on my iMac. When it did this it also destroyed the bridge, and the drive itself.

Anyway, If your 6-month-old external drive came from a reputable company, It should be under warenty.

Posted by Gunnar Johansson (Member # 1661) on 02-19-2004, 02:44 PM:

Joe: Are you sure it´s a "Colonel Panic" and not Kernel panic. [Big Grin]

Since I´m not using a Mac and spending (to much) time being BOFH around *nix I see the latter more often, but I've never heard of the rank Kernel. It probably wouldn´t be a good rank as it sounds too much like another one. Which brings me back top the beginning...

Manny: Sorry can´t help you. When last I played with a mac I was one of the only kids around playing with computers... (almost)

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 02-19-2004, 03:24 PM:

There have been some reports of FW drives causing the ports on the computer to fry. Subsequent attempts to plug a drive into a fried port can cause the drive to malfunction and lose data as well.

In all the reports I have read, the problems have been with bus powered units that were "hot plugged". The theory is that some of the connectors get loose and the terminals "make" or "break" out of sequence. There is talk of cheap cables being the culprit.

Third, it is being said that it's not good to use some types of external drives for long-term video editing with FCP or iMovie, et. al.

From what I have read, it's a good idea to power down before plugging any bus powered FW devices. Self-powered devices don't seem to have so many problems.

Another thing that should be avoided is long daisy chains on the FW bus. If you have more than two FW devices in a chain it would be better to get a FW hub instead. It would also be wise to keep all devices on the same bus/hub connected to a common power supply/surge protector which is seperate from the computer or other things. That way any problems from power loss are spread out over the whole system rather than having everything go down at the same time, thus giving a greater chance of data loss and/or drive damage.

If your Mac is one of the ones that have the FW controller on a PCI card you might be further ahead to just buy another one and replace it yourself. They aren't THAT expensive. If your FW controller is on the logic board, like in an iMac or iBook you're probably looking at a trip back to the Mother Ship.

Most of the people who have had these problems have been able to get their equipment replaced/repaired under warranty or AppleCare policies. If you are in warranty or under contract you should be able to recover from this with minimal financial damage. (Data loss not withstanding.)

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 02-19-2004, 06:09 PM:

Okay I went and checked out the ports on this computer (it's a Flower Power iMac) and they are all okay.

I plugged an iPod into each FW port and they boot up just fine. Thinking back, my backup drive also booted up last night -- but I'm not turning that drive on again until it's time to restore the data to a new drive.

New drive -- any suggestions?

I'm working with an iMac so it has to be external. What brand of HD should I go with? I have a brand new FW case/bridge here -- hasn't been used yet -- but it's going to need a drive.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 02-19-2004, 06:57 PM:

Older iMacs don't seem to have a high occurence of fried ports, at least in terms of the research I did. Further, if you are using an external FW enclosure to install your own drive I assume it's not a bus powered device. Self-powered devices also have low occurence of the problem.

Judging by the sound of it, you probably just had a garden variety hard drive crash. You're not so bad-off if this is true. Could'a been worse! [Wink]

IBM and Maxtor drives are in fashion right now.
Seagate and Western Digital aren't far behind, either.

Hit the on-line retailers to see what kind of deals you can get.

Two of places I usually shop are:

Mac Warehouse

Mac Connection

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 02-19-2004, 09:35 PM:

Other World Computing is where I buy mine. [Smile]

And I really appreciate all of the help! [thumbsup]

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 02-19-2004, 09:44 PM:

Whatever you get make sure it runs as cool as possible in the external case. I hate the Maxtor external Firewire drives -- they get way too warm during extended operation.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 02-19-2004, 10:20 PM:

Well, those Seagate "Baracudas" and those WesternDigital "Caviar" drives are nothing to shake a stick at! [Smile]

Drives are going for about a buck-a-gig, nowadays, aren't they?