This is topic Corrupt culture in organized sports in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 02-20-2004, 12:01 AM:
 
Preface: I was going to post this in the "political forum," but this subject really isn't political, it's more "pop cultural."

To get to the subject, we're hearing a lot of stories lately about ill-behaved athletes from the high school to professional levels. Right now, the University of Colorado football program is mired in a sexual abuse scandal that only seems to get worse with each passing day.

Even if every allegation against the football players is proven false, it raises this question: just how much moral slack must we extend to athletes?

Here's the most obvious example of special treatment afforded to professional athletes. There's lots of fights and no arrests. If I walk up to someone on the street and punch him in the face I'll certainly face assault charges and perhaps even a costly civil judgment if the victim wants to press it that far. Yet we not only allow athletes to beat on each other, I believe we encourage it. We indulge our bloodlust in finding entertainment value in people beating the hell out of each other. We get off on displays of cruelty and don't think there is anything wrong with it (hence the great ratings for shows like "Survivor"). I like hockey; it's a good sport. But there's a lot of hockey fans out there who get pissed if they don't see at least one good fist fight in a game.

I believe it is exactly this kind of macho "kick his ass" culture that encourages athletes to think they have extra license to behave badly. And who's going to stop them? Will you stand up for what is right against a fellow who can bench press 450 pounds? Or worse, stand up against all the sheep who take sides with the bullies? Very often, a popular jock can dish out a lot of headaches to others with impunity. We're entertained by it. Instead of saying, "that's terrible," we enjoy it and cheer the villian on with, "kick his ass!" Women get raped by such men and few press charges out of fear for what their peers will think. Kobe Bryant's defense team is doing their best to paint the alledged victim as a slut.

With the culture being what it is, I am not surprised by the scandal happening at Colorado University, or others happening at schools like St. Johns and elsewhere. Some of the women involved in this scandal could indeed be making it up. But knowing the latitude afforded to big name athletes, there's probably some shread of truth to some of the allegations.

America is obsessed with sports, but doesn't know the price it pays by "winning at all costs". Ability is the only thing that counts these days. We seem to forget athletes, as absurd as it may be, are often looked upon as role models. As we populate teams with more thugs bearing no moral integrity, we have to deal with more consequences.

I'm doubtful we'll see any criminal prosecutions in this Colorado University mess. But if it does turn out that things like sex parties with escort services were used as recruiting tools in the football program, then coach Gary Barnett needs to at least be fired.
 

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Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 02-20-2004, 09:08 AM:
 
Bobby, I think you've just about said it all. Similarly though, just this week several football players at a nearby college after having had sex with a couple of 14 year olds were charged with contributing to the delinquency of a minor and released on personal recognizance. For anybody else it would have been rape and a substantial bond posted if they were released at all.
 

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Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 02-20-2004, 12:22 PM:
 
I liked the Olympics, especially when they were amateur. I like reading about high school and collage sports in really small local papers. I love it when the only football on the news is the high school wrap-up.

I detest professional football, basketball and baseball. I only tolerate professional hockey because I feel it takes great skill. But I'd much rather watch a bunch of drunk guys skating on the local pond.

I loathe the fact that professional hockey, baseball, soccer and baseball are now Olympic sports. What's the point; don't these people already have a forum to determine who is the best?

I much prefer individual sports like track and field, figure skating (something to do with short skirts ), gymnastics (people can't possibly be doing that! ), skiing and all those sliding sports like the luge.

I guess I'm not much of a team player.
 

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Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 02-20-2004, 02:28 PM:
 
I too detest pro sports. The only way I watch is if someone pays me to, like broadcast TV video or audio engineering, or video projection.

Swimming was, and someday will be again, my sport (I've never been much of a team player either).

[ 03-14-2004, 11:47 AM: Message edited by: Paul Mayer ]
 

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Posted by Aaron Mehocic (Member # 15) on 02-20-2004, 06:52 PM:
 
Bobby, your 100% correct in your observations. In the original post you mention the St. Johns' incident in Pittsburgh I'm assuming. Just for the record that woman had previously been arrested on prostitution charges and fraud too I believe. Nevertheless, those ball players were in the 'Burg to play Pitt. What in the hell are they doing in the bars and nightclubs afterwards? Get em on the plane, get em back to class - period!
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 02-20-2004, 09:01 PM:
 
The St. John's thing was a double-whammy of sorts, exposing two double standards for bad behavior. First, you have the basketball players who think they can do anything they want. Then you have a woman who "cries wolf" regarding rape. If one of the basketball players had not video-recorded some of the incident on his cellphone the court may have believed the woman's story. The evidence on the phone was the only thing to prove the lady was a prostitute using extorsion to demand more money for her services.

The basketball players were lucky to beat the rape accusation. Still, they should have remembered they were enrolled in a college centered around Christian faith. All but one were expelled.
 

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Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 02-20-2004, 10:42 PM:
 
I hate all sports with a passion, well, not really the sports themselves but what they represent in our society.

One thing that I really can't stand are people who will spend all day watching sports, any sport, doesnt matter as long as it is a sport. I hate the sound of the crowd behind the announcer.

Personally, I think the only thing on television more mind numbing than football are soap operas.

In short, I hate sports.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 02-21-2004, 01:10 AM:
 
I like the Seinfeld joke regarding fan enthusiasm:
"We Won! We Won!"
"No. They won. You watched."

But I didn't intend to get reactions whether people like sports or not in general. My concern is the climate surrounding it now; the conduct and culture being shaped by its participants. I am concerned the actions of a few bad apple jocks are adding to a very destructive influence on our society.

For instance, a particularly disgusting incident recently happened on a school bus (in Jacksonville, FL, I think). The on board video camera recorded how the entire bus load cheered as seven kids beat the living hell out of one victim. The bus driver did not do anything to stop it.

Anyone can make the point we've had bad behaved sports stars for the entire history of organized sports. This is true. But in the past, much of the bad behavior was kept off the field. And it usually didn't get into felony territory.

Today, athletes freely disgrace themselves on the field. During one game Terrell Owens, a receiver formerly of the San Francisco 49ers, freely screamed insults at the team's offensive coordinator in full view of the cameras.

Warren Sapp Style Football
One of the biggest disgraces I've seen in recent memory was the infamous blind side hit Warren Sapp laid on Chad Clifton during a 2002 Tampa-Green Bay game. Clifton wasn't anywhere near the ball in play on the field. He assumed his part of the play was done. He didn't see Sapp coming and got leveled by a brutal hit. Clifton crumpled to the ground and Warren Sapp celebrated all over the field. Minutes later, Clifton was carried off the field on a backboard and hospitalized.

There was no penalty against Warren Sapp on the play. The ball was still live (even though it was on the opposite side of the field) and no whistle was blown. An NFL investigation judged it was a "clean hit." One could make a devil's advocate type argument saying Clifton is partly responsible for his injury for not paying attention, especially when a guy like Sapp is cruising in your vicinity.

Still, Green Bay coach Mike Sherman confronted Sapp about the hit, which had Sapp saying "if you're so tough, put on a uniform." Sapp later said to the press, "If I was 25 years old and didn't have a kid and a conscience, I would have given him an ass-kicking right there at the 30-yard line." Yeah, that's really good. A 300 pound football player beating up a middle aged White guy. You'll win lots of people over with a stunt like that.

Here's the thing. Warren Sapp didn't have to lay the hit on Clifton. But he took advantage of the "clean" opportunity anyway. And, IMHO, I think that is what makes the difference between someone who is out there just to play a game versus someone looking to kill somebody. NFL culture seems to be about killing opponents rather than just beating them honorably.

Sapp is not the only guy to "de-cleat" someone. Lots of NFL players hunt around, hoping to cherry-pick an unsuspecting opponent. That still doesn't make it right. And audiences should be ashamed of themselves for deriving entertainment value out of it. After all, their cheers for the thuggery only encourages the problem to get worse.

Thuggery like this is turned into an cultural institution, with the players being in their own special club. With this type of environment there can be little surprise that things like sex parties for recruitment and rape can exist in the institution.
 

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Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 02-21-2004, 02:42 AM:
 
Well, just to add, I cant really speak for professional athletes as I could care less what they do, but I was always sick of how athletes were treated in high school.

I had an English class once with three or four baseball players in it. Everyday the teacher would let them leave about 10 minutes early to go to baseball practice. Of course I got fed up with it and as soon as they left I would put my things up and stare out the window until class was over. And of course I got in trouble because the teacher felt that it was so important for me to listen but it wasn't important enough for the baseball players to have to listen.

Sorry I cannot comment to exactly what oyu are wanting Bobby, I do agree and I feel that athletes getting partial treatment and being "above the law" is unacceptable and one of the weaker aspects of our society.
 

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Posted by William Leland III (Member # 1400) on 02-21-2004, 03:07 AM:
 
having read bobby's first statement, i agree that sports people get away with more things. that is wrong, but america always liked bigger and better stronger atheletes. it's not right but we have driven our society that.

in the case of CSU i think it's wrong. it happened a few years ago nad now it's eeing light. give me a break. the women wants to harm someone's career and get her name in a newspaper.

sports atheletes will always have an upper hand (pun intended) when it comes to us nomral people. the law becomes blind (litlerally) and allows them to get away with it. will it change?? probaly not, considering the mkney they make for shoe companies or television.

i was drunk will writing this, excuse the grammer
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 02-21-2004, 02:02 PM:
 

quote:

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Chris wrote:
Of course I got fed up with it and as soon as they left I would put my things up and stare out the window until class was over. And of course I got in trouble because the teacher felt that it was so important for me to listen but it wasn't important enough for the baseball players to have to listen.

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quote:

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William Leland Part III wrote:
in the case of CSU i think it's wrong. it happened a few years ago nad now it's eeing light. give me a break. the women wants to harm someone's career and get her name in a newspaper.

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What evidence do you have to corroborate this? Remember, this is America, and it's guilty until proven innocent.
 

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Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 02-22-2004, 12:52 AM:
 
Actually Joe, when the teacher saw me putting up my stuff she told me to look forward and pay attention and I said "no." I told her that I saw no reason to pay attention because what was being said was not important enough for those guys so I didnt feel it was important for me. I pick my battles carefully and always win.

I'm a kinda quiet guy but when I feel strongly about something I make it known.

I dont do anything at work anyway so the smokers just go out and smoke and I jsut keep doing nothing inside
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-10-2004, 10:07 AM:
 
Here's a new story to bump this topic back into play.

A couple nights ago Colorado Avalanche forward Steve Moore was seriously injured from a cheap shot hit by Vancouver's Tood Bertuzzi. Vancouver was losing a game that would end as a 9 to 2 rout in Colorado's favor.

Bertuzzi came up behind Moore, punched him in the side of the head and then drove him face first into the ice. Moore suffered facial injuries, and worst of all a fracture in his neck.

Now, a couple days later, the Vancouver police department is "investigating" the incident. Can anyone tell me why the police were not arresting Bertuzzi right then and there!!?? It's not like there's any lack of evidence. You only have, what, around 15,000 witnesses and videotape views of the hit from a couple different camera angles? Sounds like a clear case of assault and battery to me.

If I did some similar shit to a stranger I passed in Wal-Mart and they caught the incident on the security cameras, I know I would be going to jail. But then that's just me. I'm not a professional athlete.

Days later, Bertuzzi is apparently distraught over the harm done to Moore. IMHO, I just don't think that is good enough. Steve Moore could have been paralyzed or killed right there on the ice.

Some may say, "fighting is just part of the game." I say bullshit to that. It is high time police departments started doing their jobs when it comes to these incidents. Some guy punches another guy, arrest him. That's what happens in the stands. The same thing should extend to what happens on the field. A very harmful message is getting sent to the public and encouraged through our culture when professional athletes are given the license to commit criminal behavior in public. Assaults like the one Bertuzzi committed upon Steve Moore should not be tolerated. What has to happen for things to change? Does a hockey player need to die from getting a broken neck?
 

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Posted by Dino Panagiotopoulos (Member # 1579) on 03-10-2004, 10:19 AM:
 

quote:

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Some may say, "fighting is just part of the game."

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In a way it is (whether some people like it or not) but what happened the other night wasnt fighting it was assault as you mentioned. Theres a big difference between two guys mutually dropping the gloves and settling a little difference with a little fisticuffs and what he did. They drop a few bombs for a minute and its over. No harm done, nobody hurt. To see someone blindsided with a sucker punch like that was horrible though. I used to have tremendous respect for Todd Bertuzzi as a great player and a physical presence but after seeing that I lose a good deal of it. To say it was accidental is because that was totally pre-meditated. When you want to fight someone you dont go after him like that.......you tell him to drop the gloves. It reminds me of the McSorley job a few years ago. He was charged with aggravated assault and received a one year suspension (it was towards the end of his career anyway and he retired). Not a good way to go out in my opinion as he was a highly respected player around the league.
 

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Posted by Gary Crawford (Member # 2038) on 03-10-2004, 01:26 PM:
 
You guys have said what I have thought for many years. Count me among those who have no use for sports. I'm old enough to remember things like Mickey Mantle hitting his 500th, back in the days when sports were dignified.

Today thugs are providing hero worship idols for both kids and adults.

Other obscenities too, such as the pro player who makes $1500 an hour who is on the "injured list" for six weeks with a finger boo-boo.

Pro games on TV are a ho-hum anymore too. I can't stand commercials as it is and these televised sports events are nothing more than fluff filler between ads.

I'd much rather get out on a field somewhere with a few guys and play an afternoon of softball.

Maybe for another thread...kids playing sports for blood and the parents who push them.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 03-10-2004, 03:00 PM:
 

quote:

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Dino wrote:
In a way [fighting in hockey] is [part of the game]

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quote:

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Dino also wrote:[av=o]
They drop a few bombs for a minute and its over. No harm done, nobody hurt.

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So nobody gets hurt from punching each other for a minute? Those must be some really weak-ass individuals throwing the punches! Thanks for letting me know that hockey players are such pansie-assed pussies! Otherwise you'd think they'd hurt each other.

Fighting in hockey is retarded.
 

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Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 03-10-2004, 03:03 PM:
 
So is boxing and wrestling.

If two guys agree to beat the shit out of each other so be it. Besides, most hockey fights are more of a dance than a fight that pales in comparison to a fight between a couple of grade schoolers.

Just in: Mel Gibson has bought the rights for the movie, The Passion of the Canuck: The Last 12 Hours of Todd Bertuzzi.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 03-10-2004, 03:55 PM:
 
That's just retarded.[av=f] Bertuzzi is far from a savior. What he was doing was inflicting revenge, probably instructed by his coach. A few weeks back, Steve Moore made a legal hit on a Vancouver player that the Vacouver coach went nuts about. No broken necks were involved. Instead of taking it like a man, they tried to get Steve Moore back.

Pansie asses.

I say we ban Canada from hockey.
 

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Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 03-10-2004, 04:15 PM:
 
Hey, I heard it on American radio station. In no way is he a savour. He's a total idiot and always has been. He is going to be, rightly so, crucified by the NHL... in Toronto by the way.

Besides, I don't think banning more than half the players from the league would work to well.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 03-10-2004, 04:39 PM:
 
OK let's just ban Canadian players then! There will probably only be 10 guys left in all of hockey! [av=m]
 

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Posted by Gunnar Johansson (Member # 1661) on 03-10-2004, 04:53 PM:
 
And they´ll all be from Sweden...
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-10-2004, 06:00 PM:
 
Sweden? That would be alright. Peter Forsberg rules! Go Avalanche!

quote:

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Besides, most hockey fights are more of a dance than a fight that pales in comparison to a fight between a couple of grade schoolers

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quote:

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If two guys agree to beat the shit out of each other so be it.

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I agree with that only when the two guys involved settle the issue among themselves in private, and agree to settle the issue on the result of the fight. (Good luck on that happening. First, both guys would have to be honorable. But honorable people don't often get into fist fights. And then the loser would have to not feel humiliated or need to grab a gun and shoot the victor.)

Fights are an entirely different thing when an audience is involved. It doesn't matter if it is an audience at Caesar's Palace watching the Heavyweight Boxing Championship of the world or an audience of 8th graders in the school lunch room cheering "kick his ass" as some jock uses a food tray to smash the face of a science class geek. It is all a kind of pornography to satisfy our perverted, cruel bloodlust.

Many people see a guy on TV get punched in the face and they laugh over it. Bonk. Haw haw. Rightfully, they should be ashamed of it. The crap accumulates and it affects how people treat each other. Most of us won't go so far as so slap someone across the mouth at impulse, but we're not nearly so courteous either.
 

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Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 03-10-2004, 06:10 PM:
 
Dental injuries caused by getting hit in the head by a puck far out number the number of injuries caused by fights.

If the player doesn't want to fight they can either not get in the fight or hit the ice when the figure out they shouldn't have got in the fight.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 03-10-2004, 07:07 PM:
 
Still you all have ignored my question:

Why does hockey lend itself to fighting so much over other professional sports (not counting boxing and crap like that)? What about hockey makes the players so damn pissed at each other? Football is a far more aggressive sport, but you rarely see the players fighting. But in hockey, it happens every single game, with a few exceptions.[av=k]
 

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Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 03-10-2004, 07:38 PM:
 
I wouldn't consider football any more agressive than any other team sport.

If you don't like it, don't play it (or watch it).
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 03-10-2004, 08:17 PM:
 
I see you have no answer (or can't come up with one). Truth is hockey players fight more. I want to know why. It has nothing to do with my like/dislike of the sport or any other sport. I never said I did not like hockey.[av=c]
 

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Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 03-10-2004, 09:03 PM:
 
I don't see why I need to answer your question, that you asked of Dino, and defend something I never said.

That's about the last thing I want to do today.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 03-10-2004, 09:15 PM:
 
Actually I'd like an answer from anyone who has an answer.[av=n] Though I'm not sure anyone can really explain it.
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 03-10-2004, 11:31 PM:
 
Joe, to answer your question: Hockey players are stupid with an average IQ of 40. They all think the way to solve things is by kicking someone's ass. Sorta like Daryl's always threatening to kick my ass. HA!

I don't take it seriously though; I mean he lives WAY up there in some foreign country. HA! Like I'm shivering in my boots! Oh, PULEEZE! He’s a pussycat!

>>> Phil
 

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Posted by Robb Johnston (Member # 239) on 03-11-2004, 05:38 PM:
 
For better or worse fighting has been a part of hockey forever. It made more sense back in the Broad Street Bullies days (Go Flyers!!) when no one but the goalie wore a helmet and fights meant something. Hockey is a fast paced sport with few stoppages. In Football fights happen but between plays. In hockey, it can start anytime, partly out of necessity.

In In football, there are tons of officials to help police things, in Hockey there are 2 who can call penalties, and only a few years ago there was jsut one. Hockey players had to police each other. If you got a dirty hit in, or you have been slashing/hooking me all game and the ref missed it, I will knock you down.

Hockey has added rules to try to curtail the fighting, and the result is players, esp. stars try to avoid the instigation extra penalties, etc. So a player tries to avoid the penalties, and a lesser human feels the need to cheap shot him. If hockey fights were more permitted, I think whack jobs like burtuzzi and mcsorely might not have felt the need to take it into their own hands.

Look at the Flyers/Senators game last week. Similar situation, last month a Senator took advantage of a situation when the Flyer's enforcers were not playing and took a cheap shot at Flyer Mark Recchi. As far as I know it was legal, but it wasn't well recieved by the Philly team. So with 1:45 left on the clock, there were 5 consecutive fights, Everyone got involved, and almost everyone got ejected, but they were all face to facemutually agreed on fights. When the fights were over, there was 1:15 on the game clock, and only 5 players total on the bench between the two teams. 419 total penalty minutes imposed in the game, and it got little to no press.

What Bertuzzi did was not a fight. He tried to start one by slapping his prey with his stick a few times. when that didn't happen, he crossed all the lines by grabbing his jersey, pulling his prey closer to him as he pounded him in the temple. This was not a fight, it was not a check, it was a mugging. What he did was not tolerated by the NHL either. He is suspended for the rest of the year and playoffs. I agreed with that, but my thoughts are that his suspension should be until his victim is able to take the ice again. If his carreer is over, then Bertuzzi should have his entire imposed retirement to ponder his actions.

Rant mode off
 

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Posted by Dino Panagiotopoulos (Member # 1579) on 03-12-2004, 12:24 AM:
 
Robb said it pretty well altogether.

Just adding a little more to it:
In the old days if two guys had a disagreement or some guy would take a cheap shot then two guys would drop the gloves and settle it that way. And yes nobody would really get hurt except for a few cuts and a bruised ego. Now though, you cant do that because of the instigator rule. Now somebody takes a cheap shot, you have to wait until later in the game or next game (while your anger fuels up even more) and in most cases, the retaliation is senseless and in yesterdays case, almost life threatening. By removing the instigator rule, you allow them to "settle" their difference at that moment and then its pretty much forgotten after that. I think having two guys square off, you see very few injuries from that, but you take a stick across a guy's head, you might see someone seriously injured from that. So it's the lesser of two evils.

I also agree with Robb's statement about Bertuzzi's consequence being he should be out for as long as his victim is out and if he can never play again, then so be it.

Bottom line.......fighting has become part of the game of hockey just as a basketball player gets charged with some rape crime every week is to that sport...........or steroid charges on some baseball player. The point is as much as you see fighting in the game, you rarely see one of these guys in court every week as you do with other major sports. Thats one thing Im proud to say is not a part of the Canadian game.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-12-2004, 12:44 AM:
 
Here's the fundamental problem with settling an issue with a fight: the wronged person often does not win. Just because you are able to kick someone's ass does not make you right.

That's why I will not go along with the "it's part of the game" mentality when it comes to fights in organized sports. It also shoots a hole in the argument of justifying a fight over a ref not seeing a cheap shot incident.

The fights are allowed to happen only because the perverted element of the crowd finds entertainment and pleasure in it.

Some may say it is impossible to take the fights out of hockey. I disagree with that. You get the cops in there slapping handcuffs on every athlete throwing a punch and the shit will stop pretty damned quick. The fights happen because they are enabled to happen. The athletes know they can often throw punches with impunity. No fear of getting arrested (or even getting fined in a lot of cases).
 

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Posted by Dave Williams (Member # 299) on 03-12-2004, 09:10 AM:
 
In 1991 I refereed a Basketball game that was the state championship intracollegate intramural game. It was big stakes as all 9 state colleges were in the competition.

With 56 seconds to play, and Southern Utah State leading the University of Utah by six points, the most unbelievable event happened. I was under the basket watching the lines during a free throw. The referee under the basket in a three ref system watches the lines and the lines only for lane violations before the ball is release.

What I saw was a body fly by my face before the ball was released from the shooters hands. Someone hit another player and then all hell broke loose. Both benches cleared and the spectators even came out to help beat the crap out of each other.

This fight lasted for nearly four minutes before order was restored.

To put the game into perspective, I took charge of this game early on and let them get away with absolutely nothing. We called the game tight and to the end. We let thier skills as atheletes rule the game, not who could muscle or hit thier way to a victory.

I got on the PA system and announced that the game was a dual forfiet. That was actually what stopped the fight, but started the yelling at me. It took three hours to sort through the various who hit whos, but in the end, i stood firm on my call and let it stand as a dual forfiet, since not ONE person was not in the fight from either team.

Instead, the losers in the semifinal rounds were called back to play the championship game.

The university in a show of solidarity invited me to be the head referee for that game as well.

The paramedics however did not see that I could continue. I was hit many times and needed medical attention that they could not provide. Most of the damage was to my face, most of which the university paid to get fixed.

The moral here is that these young bucks did not like bieng told that they were not allowed to beat the other team into submission so they instead beat them anyway.

Team sport violence is never necessary, but is usually taught from father to son, not from coach to player. Players that learn good sportsmanship from thier fathers and then get coaches that tell them to be rough usually will not do so, but will let thier talents do the work.

There are many pro atheletes with absolutely no talent whatsoever, but plenty of brut force and unsportsmanlike conduct that passes for talent.

Any damn fool can go out there and beat someone to death, it takes a smart man or woman to actually spend years practicing an artform and putting it to work.

Ciao

Dave
 

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Posted by R. Andrew Diercks (Member # 1725) on 03-13-2004, 02:40 AM:
 
While in high school we had this amazing bahemeth of a girl that could dunk the basketball and therefor deemed queen of our world. If I was a genetic freak like her at 6'7" and couldn't do so, I would shoot myself. Anyway...when she signed her letter of intent to Drake, they held a press conference in our library closing it for two periods. I could not work on a paper I had due soon. This pissed me off to no end.

I had a classmate that scored perfect on his ACT and over 1500 on SAT, do you think anyone gave a where he went to college or need a news conference to show it off. He could find the cure for cancer and nobody would notice.

Why do we go to school again?...Oh ya, to play sports.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 04-16-2004, 10:50 PM:
 
BUMP.

Hehe, okay. Now this is just getting a little out of hand:

SPRINGFIELD, Ill. (Ticker) -- St. Louis Blues center Mike Danton was arrested Friday morning and charged with participating in an alleged murder-for-hire plot.

In a statement, the FBI said Danton was apprehended in San Jose, where the Blues were eliminated Thursday night from the Western Conference quarterfinals by the Sharks.

Danton's arrest came one day after an alleged accomplice, 19-year-old Katie Wolfmeyer of Florissant, Missouri, was taken into custody in Brentwood, Missouri.

According to U.S. Attorney Ronald J. Tenpas of the Central District of Illinois, Danton and Wolfmeyer conspired to hire someone to kill an acquaintance with whom Danton quarreled Tuesday night.

The criminal complaint said the argument involved "promiscuity and use of alcohol" by Danton, who "begged the acquaintance not to go to [Blues general manager Larry Pleau] ... and ruin his career."

Wolfmeyer allegedly assisted Danton in finding a prospective killer. That unidentified person cooperated with the FBI, whose agents taped incriminating telephone calls, authorities said. No one was injured.

Each count carries a maximum penalty of 10 years imprisonment and a fine up to $250,000.

Danton, 23, had seven goals, five assists and a team-leading 141 penalty minutes in 68 games in his first full NHL season.

A native of Brampton, Ontario, Danton was suspended during the 2001-02 season by New Jersey Devils general manager Lou Lamoriello for failing to report to the minor leagues. Danton sat out most of the previous season following a disagreement over a medical diagnosis.

A 2000 fifth-round draft pick, Danton legally changed his name from Mike Jefferson.
 

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