This is topic Kodak Admits that Film Uses Pixels! in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 04-06-2004, 05:14 PM:
 
A marketing person at Kodak once said:
"A single frame of film contains over 12 million pixels of information and the full range of human emotion."

Wow. No wonder my actors seem to be so flat and emotionless. I'm shooting with MiniDV! It just can't capture the emotion! I imagine I'm probably only getting 1% of the emotion I could get. [av=k]
 

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Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 04-06-2004, 05:39 PM:
 
Did that person have a beard? You can't trust Kodak employees with beards. Especially if marketing is involved.
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 04-06-2004, 06:47 PM:
 
If a grain is equal to a pixel, then each frame of 35mm motion-picture film has many more than 12 million of them!

In a camera negative film, grains are randomly distributed and range in size from less than 1 micrometer to about 5 micrometers in the toe portion (shadow areas) of the fastest negative films.

Actually, that 12 megapixel figure comes from the general agreement that it takes at least a 4K scan to adequately capture all the information in a 35mm motion picture camera negative. Recent data indicates it may even be higher.

And I don't have a beard, and don't work in marketing.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 04-06-2004, 07:34 PM:
 

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And I don't have a beard, and don't work in marketing.

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Are you the originator of that quote, John?

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Nope. It was one of the bearded guys in Marketing.

BTW, my long-time tech Mark DeLettera (the original guy with the "digital beard" in the Kodak ScreenCheck ads) has just retired from Kodak. He and his wife (who shared Kodak careers) are building their dream retirement home in Venice, Florida.

And he's three years younger than me!
 

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Posted by Mike Olpin (Member # 1115) on 04-06-2004, 08:32 PM:
 

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What about movies by Pixar? I would think the film negatives of their flicks can't be any higher quality than the resolutions they used to render their movies to begin with.

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KODAK LIGHTNING LASER RECORDERS

The Lightning recorder's technology is unique in that it uses red, green and blue lasers to expose negative film. The three lasers write directly to each color layer of the intermediate stock. This combination produces images of unparalleled sharpness and color saturation. The system's 10 bit (per color per pixel) log space retains all the film's enormous density range, while the lasers' extremely wide dynamic range ensures that the quality of the new negative is absolutely optimised
Kodak's laser recorder polygon has 16 facets and spins at 6120 revolutions per minute (rpm). The imaging lens is a high-performance, color-corrected f/theta lens which was custom designed for the recorder. The digital datapath of the Lightning laser recorder also includes color matrix and aperture correction boards. The color matrix is used to help eliminate color crosstalk on the negative. The aperture correction board applies a compensating correction for the combined optical losses of the film recorder ensuring that the full detail and grain structure of the film is preserved.
It is extremely important that the grain content in the recorded shot matches exactly that of the original film, so that when an added effect is edited into the finished sequence there is no discernible change in grain, a telltale sign of an added effects shot. Cinesite outputs to 5242 intermediate stock, which is virtually grainless (ASA 3) and has the ability to record the grain pattern from faster stocks so that the digital transformation is unnoticeable in the final edit. The lasers that the Kodak system uses are more intense than CRT's and are able to record out the full dynamic range of any other scanned original negative stock. At Cinesite the lasers are calibrated to give a maximum dynamic range of 2.046 density units to match the capability of the 5242 stock. When used with the Lightning film scanner, the Lightning laser recorder's output is nearly impossible to distinguish from the camera original

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frame size: 35mm full aperture, 4 perf.
nominal spot size: 0.006 mm (4K resolution)
0.012 mm (2K resolution)
image format: 4096 x 3112 pixels (4K resolution)
2048 x 1556 pixels (2K resolution)
dynamic range: 2.046 status M density above Dmin on intermediate filmstock
MTF: 40% @ 40 lp/mm; horizontal and vertical
film transport: 1000 foot and 2000 foot magazines supply and take-up separate
shuttle mode: > 5 frames per second
host computer: Windows XP platform
user interface: calibration function
job management
optional: visual control of images
network interface: Fast or Gigabit Ethernet, others optional
physical dimensions: size: 115 x 115 x 65 cm
weight: approx. 285 kg
electrical requirements: input voltage: 240 V
power consumption: < 800 W incl. host computer
frequency: 50 Hz, 60 Hz
operating environment: room temperature: 19 - 24° Celsius

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NORTHLIGHT SCANNER

Cinesite recently installed Northlight film scanners at both the Los Angeles and London facilities. This new generation of scanners, developed by FilmLight in London, utilizes an 8K tri-linear CCD array manufactured by Kodak to convert film at either three- or four-perforations of height per frame to digital files. Cinesite can now scan 35 mm color negative film at speeds around four times faster than the previous generation of machines making it more practical to convert nuances in colors, contrast and other details captured on the original negative to digital files.

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KODAK LIGHTNING 35MM SCANNER

The Lightning film scanner, the finest system available for digital imaging, is the cornerstone of Cinesite's scanning capability. Featuring CCD sensor technology with three linear photosite arrays of 4,096 pixels each, the scanner handles the most common 35mm aspect ratios of Full Aperture (1024,2048 & 4096 lines resolution), Cinemascope and Academy (914, 1828 & 3656), and Vista Vision format (6144).
At 4000 lines, the Lightning scanner captures 38.9mb of data per frame from the standard 35mm format, Cinemascope captures 45.5mb, Full Aperture 51mb and Vista Vision exactly 100mb. The 4000 line resolution provides more than sufficient headroom for the level of image manipulation upon which our customers stake their reputations.
Each CCD array has a custom filter tuned to the dye densities of Eastman Color film, and is capable of capturing the full dynamic range of the images being scanned.

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GENESIS PLUS 65MM SCANNER

Cinesite is excited about the tremendous growth happening in the large format, special venue industry. The Kodak Genesis Plus scanner brings the same dynamic and robust digital tools to the 65mm wide-screen filmmaker that are available with the 35mm Lightning scanner. The Genesis Plus handles 5, 8, and 15 perf formats.

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 04-06-2004, 09:39 PM:
 
Congrats to Mark DeLettera. May he have a happy retirement.
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 04-06-2004, 09:46 PM:
 
Yes, congratulations to Mark! Maybe he can grow a _real_ beard now.
 

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Posted by Wolff King Morrow (Member # 2226) on 04-07-2004, 02:56 AM:
 

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KODAK LIGHTNING 35MM SCANNER

The Lightning film scanner, the finest system available for digital imaging, is the cornerstone of Cinesite's scanning capability. Featuring CCD sensor technology with three linear photosite arrays of 4,096 pixels each, the scanner handles the most common 35mm aspect ratios of Full Aperture (1024,2048 & 4096 lines resolution), Cinemascope and Academy (914, 1828 & 3656), and Vista Vision format (6144).
At 4000 lines, the Lightning scanner captures 38.9mb of data per frame from the standard 35mm format, Cinemascope captures 45.5mb, Full Aperture 51mb and Vista Vision exactly 100mb. The 4000 line resolution provides more than sufficient headroom for the level of image manipulation upon which our customers stake their reputations.

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Cinesite can now scan 35 mm color negative film at speeds around four times faster than the previous generation

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But at what cost, man?! How much? You can never get these guys to respond to an email. We wanted to try Cinesite for scanning/outputting material for Screen Attractions, but no one seemed interested enough to respond to our inquiries. I guess small potatoes aren't worth the trouble.
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 04-08-2004, 09:26 AM:
 
Who are you contacting at Cinesite?

http://www.cinesite.com/?170
 

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Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 04-08-2004, 09:56 AM:
 
I don't remember who specifically, it's been a couple of years now and we finished the film. There was an online quote form we filled out, and we followed up later with an email inquiry. Nothing. Figured they had bigger fish to fry. We just wanted a scanning and recording price. Nothing technical, we already knew what we wanted to do with it.
 

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Posted by Mark DeLettera (Member # 125) on 08-05-2004, 08:15 PM:
 
Well.... It's been a while since I've been here. How has the movie business been without me?
Thanks for the mention John and thanks to all for the "congrats'. We are finally getting settled in and also finally getting a chance to get on the computer for any length of time. I haven't even been on any of my Corvette Forums since I moved to Florida, and on those BB's, I really hung out a lot.
It has just been to damn nice and FUN down here!
Sunny everyday, driving the Vette top-less all over town and to the beach.... and I even started playing GOLF!

John.... I actually made it to 4 movies too.... (Faren. 911; Spiderman 2; Bourne Supremacy and Shrek 2)! It's just too bad that Regal decide to close our Venitian 6 this coming Labor Day (because that was only 2 miles from our house). Now the closest theater is in Sarasota, but only about 15 miles from us. I did hear they may be putting in a multi-plex in a new mall about one mile from us, so who knows, by then maybe I'll get bored of all the leisure time and playing around and be ready to get back in the booth again!

Well I better run.... time to grab a and jump in the pool!
I'll try to check in occassionally, but until then.....
"Keep those gates clean, watch for that static-cling and keep the film off the floor!



 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 08-05-2004, 09:05 PM:
 
Hi Mark!

Glad you, Diane, and Buster (dog) are enjoying retirement. Keep your eyes open for a theatre career in Florida (much more fun than Home Depot), or at least visit some of the Film-Tech members in the Sunshine State (certainly not NY this summer).

Don't forget to change your profile information and signature, now that your are officially a "Professional Consultant" for film and Corvette collecting.
 

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Posted by Mark DeLettera (Member # 125) on 08-06-2004, 08:21 AM:
 
OK John.... will do.
Surprised to see me here, weren't ya?
See what a few days of rain will do to me!

Don't rush me into any job yet.... I'm kinda enjoying this retirement thing.... especially at my age of 52!!
 

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Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 08-06-2004, 09:40 AM:
 
Congrats Mark enjoy the retirement but remeber go to lots of movies
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 08-06-2004, 11:07 AM:
 
What?! I demand to know why Mark was fired from the evil Kodak Empire! [av=h]
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 08-06-2004, 11:30 AM:
 
We should all be so lucky as to be able to retire so young. Mark happily announced his retirement plans to his co-workers over a year ago, and shared his excitement as their "dream home" was being built in Florida.
 

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Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 08-06-2004, 02:00 PM:
 
"dream home" so I gues that means it has a 70mm (shnageover equiped) cinema in it with a mighty wulitzur as well
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 08-06-2004, 02:32 PM:
 
Gordon, I'm sure you meant a 3-chip cinema DPL projector. As much as the die-hards hate to admit it: Just like SDDS, 70mm is dead.

Daryl, is there anyway to automatically spell-check ALL of Gord's posts before he adds them?

I know yous up there in Canada spell things a little different than us to the south, but above Mexico, but sometimes *THIS* dumbshit (ME) cannot make out WTF he is saying!

>>> Phil
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 08-06-2004, 02:58 PM:
 

quote: Phil Hill

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I'm sure you meant a 3-chip cinema DPL projector

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Speaking of automatic spell-check.

Mark and I went to quite a few DLP-Cinema presentations, including multiple showings of the original New Jersey digital cinema presentations of "Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace" in 1999. He has higher expectations.
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 08-06-2004, 03:10 PM:
 

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Speaking of automatic spell-check.

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Hahahahahaha... That's hilarious!

John, I could lie and say it was intentional...but it wasn't! DAMN!

>>> Phil
 

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Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 08-06-2004, 03:35 PM:
 
Now how does one spell c o o t ?
 

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Posted by Mark DeLettera (Member # 125) on 08-06-2004, 08:01 PM:
 
Thanks for the well wishes Gordon (and everyone else too!).
No... No super multi-media room in this dream house. They don't build'em too big dowm here, so without a basement, I even sold my 16mm projector! I kept my Super 8 and Ekta-Sound projectors however!

And yes..... I'll always keep going to the movies as long as they keep putting them on that great, static-cling, polyester film stock!!!! If I get that part-time job at a theatre, I hope I'm "threading it up" instead of "downloading it up"
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 08-06-2004, 10:35 PM:
 
Yes indeed, literally thread it up... bottom to top, like it was meant to be. No need for top to bottom threading. Don't let them teach you wrong![av=v]
 

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Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 08-13-2004, 06:53 AM:
 

quote: Mark DeLettera

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Now the closest theater is in Sarasota, but only about 15 miles from us.

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How ya liking that stress-free life in the gulf coast dream home, Mr. Snowman?





Oh, ah.

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Well I better run.... time to grab a and jump in the pool!

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Just grab the beer, & wait a bit...
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 08-13-2004, 09:30 AM:
 
Let's all hope that Mark and others living in the storm track of Hurricane Charley make it through the storm okay.

With the price of plywood today, weathering the storms is getting much more expensive. Fortunately, Mark and Diane live about 5 miles inland from the Gulf coast, so at least storm surge flooding shouldn't be an issue for them.

Take care, Mark, and Good Luck!

As of 10:19am EDT this morning:


 

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Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 08-13-2004, 09:48 AM:
 
Before running totally out of track and into the weather forecasting business, would somebody please write down for record the essence of this entire topic:

The definition of an honest man:
-have no beard, and don't work in marketing (Kodak or other firms)
 

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Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 08-13-2004, 08:46 PM:
 

quote: John Pytlak

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Let's all hope that Mark and others living in the storm track of Hurricane Charley make it through the storm okay.

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quote: John Pytlak

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With the price of plywood today, weathering the storms is getting much more expensive.

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Fortunately, Mark and Diane live about 5 miles inland from the Gulf coast

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Crumbs, the hurricane is more than five miles wide! Severe damage & flooding goes up about 1/2 to 2/3 of the state in MS, AL, & LA!

I hope nobody sold him one of those cute houses on stilts like the pictures in the Robinson Crusoe books. They're the first to go orbiting the moon.

When I've been down here for hurricanes, even when I owned the beach house, it's board up & get out. I get to base in bomb-shelter construction buildings, except when I have to go out in the storm.

I can go out in the storm, because I have a Hurricane Hat.


 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 08-13-2004, 09:23 PM:
 
Ironically, people who evacuated inland from Tampa are now in the middle of the storm. Mother Nature is unpredictable.
 

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Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 08-16-2004, 01:47 AM:
 
In terms of a hurricane, "inland" in the panhandle is a delusional idea.

This hurricane was a good example; it went right across. The results have been terrible, but they got off light again. Windspeed went 'way down after landfall, it didn't stall & just grind things up anyplace, it didn't just chew straight up the gulf coast as was just as likely, & there was no more rain than a tropical storm.

Where's Mark? It's too late now, but he's probably learned that one of the most important hurricane supplies is a chainsaw for the trunk of the car so you can get home again.

Landfall was about 50 miles up the coast from him; in the spread of probabilities, it could just as well have been his front door when it happened.
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 08-16-2004, 08:31 AM:
 
Just got an e-mail from Mark, saying that he and Diane fared okay, with no major damage. Their home in Venice FL was only 18 miles west of the storm track, and just north of Punta Gorda and Port Charlotte, where some of the worst damage occurred.

Mark said the worst winds at his house were about 70+ mph at around 4:30 pm on Friday. Lost power for 10 hours. Lots of debris and some plants uprooted, but no damage to his house. Some of the construction crew "porta potties" in his new neighborhood got blown around. About 2-1/2 inches of "side-ways" rain in one hour.

I'm sure Mark will add to the details when he has a chance to log onto Film-Tech.
 

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Posted by Mark DeLettera (Member # 125) on 08-16-2004, 09:41 AM:
 
Hi.... It's me.... out from under the matress in the bathtub!

All OK here but not 18 miles south of us. John P. summed up the effects we received, except one thing.... I stepped outside during the storm to really experience the 70mph wind and guess what? It blew off my digital beard.... go figure??


 

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Posted by Jeremy Fuentes (Member # 2135) on 08-16-2004, 09:46 AM:
 
Good to hear that your okay!!
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 08-16-2004, 11:06 AM:
 
Must have been a strong wind to blow off the digital beard. Of course Kodak digital beards are not as strong as their chemical beards. So go figure. If you want digital beards done right, I gotta do 'em. [av=v]
 

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