Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: "Preventive" or "Preventative"?

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 05-18-2004, 03:00 PM:

When you say something ridiculous like "preventive maintenance", do you say "pre-ven-tive" or "pre-ven-ta-tive"?
[av=k]

I had never heard "preventative" until a few months ago when I was recording and editing a voiceover at work. The guy said "preventative" while recording and I missed it. I was editing the dialog later and came across it. The script said "preventive", so I edited his word down so it sounded like he just naturally said "preventive" in the first place. I felt no need for the unnecessary extra syllable. I mean seriously, what the hell? I thought maybe he had some sort of mental deficiency. It turns out that he indeed did, but that's another story.

Apparently both ways of saying it are correct. What a country!

Posted by Jeremy Fuentes (Member # 2135) on 05-18-2004, 03:17 PM:

Preventative just doesnt sound right at all. It's stupid. I dont have time for the extra syllable. [Mad]

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 05-18-2004, 03:38 PM:

The words are not interchangeable, though our current generation's sloppy use of grammar seems to make it so.

Maintenance, done to prevent failures is "preventive".

A substance, applied to decking to prevent rot is a "preventative".

Good catch, Joe.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 05-18-2004, 04:32 PM:

From Chambers' Dictionary (1994 ed.):

quote:
adj preven'tive or (by irregular formation) preven'tative tending to prevent or hinder; prophylactic; concerned with the prevention of smuggling (hist), - n that which prevents; a prophylactic. - adv prevent'tively. n preven'tiveness. preventive detention prolonged imprisonment, with corrective training, for persistent or dangerous offenders of 30 or over for periods of from 5 to 14 years.

I don't have the full Chambers (only the abridged one, without full etymology), but would hazard a guess at the etymology being Latin - prae (before); and the verb venire to come or proceed. Michael will probably tear me to shreds over this!

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 05-18-2004, 04:39 PM:

Hey! I'yam in diz currant generasion and I ain't got no slopy nor purr grammers, the englush isa not conphuzing.

I hav too go now sinse i hav too *polish* me shuz fer me sizter *Polish* wed ding.

(Yeah, good catch, Joe! But, ya can say it either way.) [beer]

>>> Phil

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 05-18-2004, 04:52 PM:

According to Dictionary.com, "PreventATive" is a (nonstandard) variant of "Preventive".

I assume that this is a similar situation as the words "Flammable" and "Inflammable"... Both meaning, "Something that burns easily." Although, "Flammable" actually means, "Something that can easily be set aflame.", whereas "Inflammable" actually means, "Something that is easily inflamed."

To put it another way, they are two words with slightly different origins (derived from different languages) which have converging meanings.

As a matter of fact, Oxford English Dictionary shows about the same relationship between the words:

Preventive

PreventATive

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 05-18-2004, 05:08 PM:

So both (dictionary.com and Chambers) agree with Joe - the extra syllable ain't necessary, and does not add any specific meaning.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 05-18-2004, 05:26 PM:

Thanks to Joe et al. for bringing this up. The use of "preventative" to mean "preventive" is a pet peeve of mine.

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 05-18-2004, 05:40 PM:

Dr Leo is right. To prevent comes from praevenire=to come before.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-18-2004, 10:24 PM:

"Hey! I'yam in diz currant generasion and I ain't got no slopy nor purr grammers, the englush isa not conphuzing.

I hav too go now sinse i hav too *polish* me shuz fer me sizter *Polish* wed ding."

OK Joe, get hold of Fil if ya needs to knou what it say.

Mark

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 05-18-2004, 10:42 PM:

Dear Diary: I HATE Mark!

(BUT! The JEN is HOT!)

And Jen, I'm headed to Texas and NEED a place to stay for a "night".... Can we hook up again?

>>> Phil

Posted by Jennifer Pan (Member # 2035) on 05-18-2004, 11:09 PM:

ummm... Phil, I be at AZ now... So I think yo planz to c the hippinator haz been terminated. [evil]

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 05-18-2004, 11:16 PM:

Oh No Jen! I'm heart-broken! I am traveling on US-10 and was hoping to at least meet you!

And Yes! While in Texas, I will be staying with Chris...Hubba Hubba!

>>> Phil

Posted by Jennifer Pan (Member # 2035) on 05-18-2004, 11:21 PM:

Awww how cute [Big Grin]

... I think it was meant to be... (I think its wonderful to see Film-Techers hook up. [sex]

You have my blissings Phil... "Phil and Chris seating in a tree... K.I.S.S.I.N.G") [beer]

Hmmm... My place is a couple blocks from US-10.... "Should I meet Phil?"

Posted by Jeremy Fuentes (Member # 2135) on 05-18-2004, 11:24 PM:

no.

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 05-18-2004, 11:26 PM:

Jeremy, you ass! Why not? Are you jealous of my good looks and my big-time "manhood"?

Jen is cool and so am I...WE are a team!

>>> Phil

Posted by Jeremy Fuentes (Member # 2135) on 05-18-2004, 11:38 PM:

Phil, I'm sorry. Your'e right. I am jealous. But not of the stuff youre talking about. Just that Jen moved from Texas, and she is considering meeting with you. [Mad]

Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 05-19-2004, 02:17 AM:

phil is the reason parents don't allow their kids on the internet. [beer]

carl

Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 05-19-2004, 09:03 AM:

I understand that propety valuz ar droppin in texus with thu anouncmint that Fil is cummin... [Eek!]

(And I hit the spell check. Wow.)

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 05-19-2004, 06:48 PM:

Hmmm... My place is a couple blocks from US-10.... "Should I meet Phil?"

Absolutely. We need indpendent verification. Just make sure you have someone riding shotgun. [Eek!]

Posted by Brian Michael Weidemann (Member # 2243) on 05-20-2004, 02:32 AM:

I don't think I've ever heard "preventive" before. With words like "argumentative" and "authoritative" in the language, "preventative" seems perfectly appropriate. Though both are correct, they seem perfectly interchangable with no real distinction in usage.

pre•vent \pri-"vent\ vb 1 : to keep from happening or existing <steps to ~ war> 2 : to hold back : hinder, stop <~ us from going> — pre•vent•able also pre•vent•ible \-"ven-te-bel\ adj — pre•ven•tion \-"ven-chen\ n — pre•ven•tive \-"ven-tiv\ adj or n — pre•ven•ta•tive \-"ven-te-tiv\ adj or n
(c)2000 Zane Publishing, Inc. and Merriam-Webster, Incorporated. All rights reserved

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 05-20-2004, 02:52 AM:

Do you also say preventation instead of prevention?

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 05-20-2004, 05:28 AM:

quote:
"argumentative" and "authoritative"

I have never heard these before. Only people who stutter say these words. [av=d] In fact I would probably resort to violence if I heard someone say "authoritative".

Posted by Brian Michael Weidemann (Member # 2243) on 05-20-2004, 06:18 AM:

au•thor•i•ta•tive \e-"thar-e-'ta-tiv, o-, -"thor-\ adj : supported by, proceeding from, or being an authority — au•thor•i•ta•tive•ly adv — au•thor•i•ta•tive•ness n
(c)2000 Zane Publishing, Inc. and Merriam-Webster, Incorporated. All rights reserved

Joe, I can't seem to find "authoritive" in a dictionary (which I'm assuming is the word you would prefer?), in fact, search Google and it comes back with the 'did you mean "authoritative"?' blurb (20,000 "authoritive" references versus almost 2,000,000 "authoritative" ones), so I'm giving you the same "what the hell are you thinking" look. I don't stutter by the way, [Big Grin]

although I do tend to prefer things like British pronunciations, so something must be wrong with me.

quote: Michael Schaffer
Do you also say preventation instead of prevention?

No, I don't. Although, yes, indeed, this is the distinction between the two. "Argumentation" exists whereas "preventation" does not. But as "non-standard" as it may be, it is not incorrect. Yay for archaic language.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 05-20-2004, 03:23 PM:

I've never heard or used the word "authoritive" either, as that's not something that has ever fallen into conversation. Even though the second way is correct, it sounds hella wrong. Think about it. It doesn't sound retarded to you? The extra syllable is in there for NO REASON. I am having a difficult time comprehending the stupidity of the creation of such a word.[av=d]

Posted by Brian Michael Weidemann (Member # 2243) on 05-20-2004, 03:49 PM:

Well, I'm sorry that not all words could be monosyllabic for ya, Joe. Since when does EVERY syllable in a word need to be there for a reason? Hmmm, I'm thinking I'll call you Mr. Redfer, since that extra "i" is a waste of my time and vocal exertion. I mean, what purpose does it serve? [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 05-20-2004, 03:53 PM:

You are clearly missing the point. Most words will have "ive" added to them such as "preventive" and the such. But others have "a-tive" added, for no reason. It is inconsitent. Or shall I say "inconsistatent"? See what I mean?[av=c]

Posted by Brian Michael Weidemann (Member # 2243) on 05-20-2004, 04:02 PM:

I understand you're point. And to some extent, I fully agree. But I've accepted that the English language is anything BUT consistent, so I try not to let idiosyncrasies in word formation bug me too much. It's a memorize-words-as-you-come-across-them kind of approach one must take. I've heard "authoritative" many times before ... I guess I either read too much or just spent too much attention in my high school years studying for the SAT.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-20-2004, 06:03 PM:

So is it TheatER or TheatRE?

Steve

<g,d&r>

Posted by Clint Koch (Member # 1179) on 05-20-2004, 06:30 PM:

Steve, I was told that "theatre" is for cinema and "theater" is for plays or live theater. Not sure who told me yet that was how it was explained.

<g,d&r>?

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 05-20-2004, 07:08 PM:

I've always thought TheatRE was teh ghey (as a very wise man once said). It's correct, but it's illogical. I had a hard time learning that one with my Hooked on Phonics set. I kept saying Thee-uh-Tree.[av=f]

Brad LOVES the theatRE spelling.

Posted by Rob Butler (Member # 2274) on 05-20-2004, 07:10 PM:

How bout this one: is it pronounced "thea-ter" or "the-at-er"?

All's I knows is that I isn't got none of them there grammar problems.

BTW

quote:
absolutely. We need independent verification. Just make sure you have someone riding shotgun.

It might not be a bad idea if the person riding shotgun was also holding a shotgun.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-20-2004, 09:06 PM:

It's pronounced thee'-a-ter but the correct spelling is "theatre." There were "theatres" in this world long before there were "theaters." [Big Grin]

It's the National Association of THEATRE Owners, and movie posters say "Only in theatres." The vast majority of cinema companies in this country use "theatre" (or "cinema") in their names. It's only the news media that insists on using "theater" (along with some members of this group).

What bugs me is people who call it a "show hall" or "showhouse." Old people do this, mostly. There's one guy who refers to it as a "movie" all the time. "You sure have a nice movie here," he says. [Roll Eyes]

As long as we're griping about words, what about "flammable" and "inflammable," which should be opposites, but mean the same thing? Never could figure that one out.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-21-2004, 03:14 PM:

Don't you just love the English language? [Wink]

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 05-21-2004, 05:34 PM:

quote: Clint Koch
Steve, I was told that "theatre" is for cinema and "theater" is for plays or live theater. Not sure who told me yet that was how it was explained.

..and I was under the impression that in American English, precisely the opposite held true! It's strange how urban legends can take hold; especially with 3,000 miles of Atlantic Ocean to help spread them!