This is topic MN Gas stations fined for charging TOO LITTLE! in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Nate Lehrke (Member # 1460) on 05-30-2004, 11:00 PM:
 
I think it's complete bull that gas station owners can't charge what they want for gas. As long as they pay the taxes, who cares? Another reason we should burn Jesse Ventura at the stake. I hope the state will tell me how to charge for admissions now! (I hope this isnt considered political)

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ST. PAUL - Just in time for Memorial Day weekend, Minnesota's Commerce Department (news - web sites) is cracking down on service stations over the price of gasoline. The problem: Some stations aren't charging enough.

Under Gov. Jesse Ventura, the state adopted a law in 2001 that prohibits gas stations from selling gas without taking a minimum profit. These days, they must charge at least 8 cents per gallon, plus taxes, more than they paid for it.

On Friday, the Commerce Department announced a $70,000 fine against Arkansas-based Murphy Oil for breaking the law at its 10 stations in the state, based at Wal-Mart stores and elsewhere. They also fined Kwik Trip Inc. $5,000 for violations at one station in Apple Valley

The two are the first fines levied under the law, which is similar to minimum-price laws in about a dozen states. Another two dozen have broader laws banning predatory pricing.

"The Legislature makes the law, and we enforce the law," said Carol Hockert, director of the department's weights and measures division.

It's her job to investigate alleged violations of the law, and there are plenty.

Hockert said she receives as many as 100 complaints a week, mostly from competitors convinced neighboring stations aren't charging enough.

In many cases they're wrong — the wholesale price changes day to day, and often one station might still be selling gas in its reserves that it bought at a cheaper price while its competitor only has newer, higher-priced gas to sell.

But stations turn over their supply fast, Hockert said, and if a station continually sells gasoline for less than what the department knows the wholesaler sold it for, she investigates.

"If $1.95 was legal yesterday, they get the benefit of the doubt," she said. "If $1.95 hasn't been a legal price for two weeks, then clearly it's a violation."

Complaints have risen right along with gas prices, she said.

According to AAA, gasoline is about 60 cents higher this Memorial Day weekend than last. The average price of gas in Minnesota is $2.02. SOURCE

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 05-30-2004, 11:17 PM:
 
Minnesota is stupid. I can see why you want to flee quickly.[av=c]
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 05-31-2004, 12:42 AM:
 
Yeah, I saw that too.

There are many states that have a minimum mark-up law. Wisconsin, I believe, is also one of those. At least it was in 1980. There law was 6%. I have outlaws that live in Minnesota, and their laws are very similar to Wisconsin's.

Many states do this to prevent big businesses form killing the little mama and papa enterprises. These laws were supposed to give an equal playing field, but unfortunately it always doesn't work out the way the it was intended.
 

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Posted by Steve Scott (Member # 630) on 05-31-2004, 06:50 PM:
 
Joe,
If only I had the gas to flee. My car needs a tune-up to get better gas mileage, but I'm paying too much in gas to afford the service. Not tht getting a projectionist's wage is helping that either...

Up here we have these huge farm stores called Mills' Fleet Farm and their gas islands make a point to undercut the other gas stations around them by a few cents. I usually fill up there... that could be contributing to my fuel economy too, I guess...
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 05-31-2004, 07:01 PM:
 
Hey guys...where are you gonna flee? Jeeze, up here it is now about 2.35 per gallon of unleaded regular in some places. California is probably worse. The cheapest is ARCO which is about 2.27 to 2.29 per gallon.

You dudes in the midwest don't know how lucky you are on gas prices.

Where ever you are, just accept it. It is not going to get any better.
 

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Posted by Nate Lehrke (Member # 1460) on 05-31-2004, 07:12 PM:
 
I wasn't going to flee because of gas prices, I'm going to flee back to Colorado because I dont like Minnesota rain or "Minnesota nice".
 

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Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 05-31-2004, 09:52 PM:
 
Bah! Complain, complain, complain. It's like a competition!

I win... I paid $2.90 for premium tonight, it's $2.60 for regular.
 

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 05-31-2004, 10:28 PM:
 
Why would anybody pay for premium grade gas?

There are very few cars that need to have it. As long as your car is burning the minimum octane level it was designed for it will run well. (Most cars' specs are OK for "regular" grade gasoline.) Furthermore, you get no better mileage or performance (in most cars) than you do with regular. I have checked.

For two weeks at a time I bought only a certain grade of gas for my car and kept close watch on fuel mileage and performance. After six weeks, (two weeks for each grade of fuel) I put the data into a spreadsheet and made a graph. It came out "flat line": ZERO correlation between grade of gas and mileage or performance. (Performance was checked by doing acceleration time tests from 0-50 MPH and from 40-65 MPH.)

I have done this on two cars that I have owned:

1) 1995 Dodge Neon. (4 Cyl. - 5 Speed manual trans.)
2) 2000 Mazda 626. (6 Cyl. - 5 Speed manual trans.)

The ONLY things that made a consistent, measureable difference in mileage or performance were:

1) Average daily temperature. You get as much as 20% less mileage on a cold winter day as you do on a hot summer day.
2) Gear shifting patterns. (e.g.: Upshifting at 2,000 RPM versus upshifting at 1,800 or 1,500 RPM.)
3) Highway versus city driving.

I once drove over the Great Smoky Mountains (North Carolina I-40) with over 1,000 pounds of gear in my Dodge Neon. (A "Century C" projector, "SH-1000" sound head, a "suitcase style" Strong switching rectifier AND all my other tools/equipment) PLUS my weight. I weighed 250 lbs. -- A total of 1,250 lbs. in a car rated for 850 lbs. of "passengers + cargo"!

I had to use one gear lower than usual. (If I normally use 3rd gear I used 2nd instead.) I also had to lay off the accelerator a bit to keep the RPMs down. I ended up going, maybe, 10 MPH slower than usual. The amazing thing is that I got the exact same mileage on that trip as I usually did! Maybe it had a lot to do with the fact that I coasted down the other side of the mountain. The mountain driving was only PART of the trip. (Knoxville, TN to Greensboro, NC.) Most of the trip was on reasonably flat ground. Once I got up to normal highway speed on flat ground I was able to drive mostly normally unless you count braking distance. The car ran a bit hotter than usual for the mountain part of the trip but I am thouroughly convinced that grade of gasoline has virtually NOTHING to do with a car's performance. (Unless the car is designed to run on a particular grade.)

Considering the price we pay for gas today, it would take a lot of convincing to make me think that anybody who pays for premium grade gas isn't flushing his money down the toilet.
 

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Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 05-31-2004, 10:33 PM:
 

quote: Randy Stankey

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Why would anybody pay for premium grade gas?

There are very few cars that need to have it. As long as your car is burning the minimum octane level it was designed for it will run well.

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Well you answered your own question. ThunderBird Super Coupes are one of those vehicles. It happens that that is what I drive.
 

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 05-31-2004, 10:55 PM:
 
Sorry to say this but it sucks to be you right now!
 

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Posted by Josh Jones (Member # 447) on 05-31-2004, 11:19 PM:
 
my vehicle gets 60 miles to the gallon, I dont give a shit what I put in it its still cheap

happily riding a 92 250 ninja in the rain
 

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Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 05-31-2004, 11:23 PM:
 
Stop it! You're making me miss my ZX6.
 

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Posted by Scott Balko (Member # 438) on 05-31-2004, 11:46 PM:
 
Actually, if your engines compression ratio is 9:1 or under, you would probably make more power on the lower octane fuel(supercharged cars not included). The lower octane fuel needs less heat and pressure to ignite and it reacts much quicker reaching peak combustion chamber pressure faster, thus pushing the piston with greater force from top dead center. This quicker reaction time also allows for more complete fuel usage in the time window of the combustion stroke.

All that crap aside, Daryl, take the rotors out of your blower and enjoy the cheaper fuel. If you could keep your foot out of it, you wouldn't need the premium. It's only the increased cylinder pressure the supercharger creates that make the high octane necessary. If you keep the boost down, you'd be ok. I've built alot of engines with blowers for the street and track, and the streeters run just fine with 89 octane unless the boost gets up there. (8 lbs. or more)
 

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Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 05-31-2004, 11:57 PM:
 
Well that would defeat the whole purpose now, wouldn't it! I like my 20psi of boost thanks!

I'm not complaining about the cost anyway. Heck, I spend more on food a week than I do fuel. Actually, I spend more on car insurance than fuel too, and I don't have a single ticket, or anything else on my record... ever.

Now if you want to talk about expensive fuel consumption, some of our small imported military aircraft consume upwards of 60 gallons per hour on take off.

400 horsepower out of 6 cylinders into straight pipes is a great way to wake the neighbors up Saturday morning.
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 06-01-2004, 03:39 AM:
 
Premium gas eats crap. It has been proven that most cars don't need that stuff. Again, insult the engine manufacturer"s recommendations on what you have to burn.

Unless you have a high performance engine, the average motorized cage will run just fine on regular. The last time I ever had to burn a premium grade of gas was with those damned Harley Hogs I drove.

Josh, enjoy it while you can. Soon you will paying through the butt - just like most who are not residing in the midwest.

There are three things people lie about.

(1) The gasoline milage on their vehicle
(2) The number to times they have been laid
(3) The length of their <ahem>.

I usually don't lie.

(1) My rigs get shitty milage.
(2) The last time I got laid was in 1974.
(3) At my age, the only thing it is good for is peeing through.

And for the rest of you ying-yangs...I look at a motorized cage to get from point "A" to point "B" in a reliable manner in the cheapest way possible. My car does not have to be equipped with an automatic toilet paper holder, and it does not have to weigh 10,000 lbs, or capable of going 210 MPH.

Jeeze...if I wanted to go that fast, I would strap a JATO to my butt.

So, There!!!!! KMA!!!!
 

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Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 06-01-2004, 03:47 AM:
 

quote: Paul G. Thompson

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insult the engine manufacturer"s recommendations on what you have to burn.

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I don't need to go far to do that...


 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 06-01-2004, 04:01 AM:
 
Well, Daryl, I guess you are stuck with it. You gotta burn it. The manufacturer says so.

Time to switch to a Briggs and Stratton "One Lunger"...
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-01-2004, 04:26 AM:
 
Damn, it redlines right after 5k? What a wimpy piece of crap! And 60 miles per gallon is lame, especialy when your tank only holds what, 3 gallons or something ridiculous? That's barely enough to get you from the brothel to your cocaine dealer.
[av=v]
We all need to get Segways!!!!



 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 06-01-2004, 04:33 AM:
 
I agree with Joe. My Ford Escort redlines at the same thing.
 

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Posted by Mike Williams (Member # 1140) on 06-01-2004, 05:38 AM:
 
I don't know about other parts of the country, but it looks like diesel has not gone quite so high here in TN. Also, diesel cars typically get better milage anyway.
A coworker of mine drives a diesel Jetta that he claims gets 41 mpg in city driving. The cost of diesel seems to be arount 1.64 around here.
It beats the 1.92 I just paid for regular unleaded this morning... even if he is exagerating on the milage.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-01-2004, 06:43 AM:
 
Well...my Corvette prefers premium gas as does my old Dodge Polara...in fact, it would prefer leaded gas too.

Fortunately, the Corvette gets on average 24MPG higher on the highway lower in the city.

The gas variety I still don't get is 89...I personally haven't come across the car that needs that grade...all I've ever run is 87 and 92/93 (sometimes with octane boost on the Dodge...those older high compression engines really do like the high octane...the vette never needed anything better than 92/93).

Steve
 

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Posted by Lance C. McFetridge (Member # 95) on 06-01-2004, 06:43 AM:
 
Daryl,
So what does 100LL cost up there these days?
 

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Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 06-01-2004, 08:07 AM:
 
$3.32 when we had the 5000 gallon tank filled last month. Runs good in the HEMI cars! ...and that piece of plastic junk Corvette.
 

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Posted by Rob Butler (Member # 2274) on 06-01-2004, 12:11 PM:
 
I remember hearing about Shell cracking down on franchises charging too little, there was a place near me that had their franchise pulled because they were selling for too little.

Here's a page I found that explains a way to make your car run on tap water, it uses a system that separates the hydrogen from the oxygen, then feeds the hydrogen into the carbuerator:

http://www.theverylastpageoftheinternet.com/forsale/plans/tapwaterengine/tapwater.htm
 

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Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 06-01-2004, 02:01 PM:
 

quote:

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Damn, it redlines right after 5k? What a wimpy piece of crap!

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quote: Joe Redifer

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...Chris, with an engine so tiny...

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So Joe, how do YOU know Chris has a tiny "engine?"

>>> Phil
 

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Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 06-01-2004, 06:50 PM:
 
I noticed you didn't answer my question. Your car must be pretty wimpy .

I actually hold 5 gallons of gas in my tank which will get me about 200 miles, exactly as much as I can go with a full tank(18 gallons or so) of gas in my truck. So I do the smart thing and ride the bike everywhere, rain or shine.

As far as engines being tiny, well mine is one of the smaller ones. However, many import cars are only (roughly)1.5 liter engines, or 1500cc. Not much bigger than a motorcycle engine. My uncle has a 1200cc Kawasaki Voyager (motorcycle) and a Suzuki Samurai(car) that has a 1200cc engine. the bike redlines at 9k and the samurai is not even close. It isnt about engine size, it is about whether the engine was built for those kind of speeds or not.

BTW, I looked and it is actually 15,000 red line
 

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Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 06-01-2004, 07:15 PM:
 
Whoa! And here I was whining about paying $1.90 for Regular!

When I use the Regular 87 octane, I get about 26-29 mpg "city" and when I use the mid-grade 89, I get 28-33. I think it does make a difference. Although I would never put Premium in my Hyundai Accent for fear of it blowing up.

=TMP=
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-01-2004, 08:10 PM:
 
I redline at right under 7K. I get about 38 mpg highway. I get 39 mpg city. Yup! I kick ass.[av=a]


 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 06-01-2004, 08:35 PM:
 


So Joe, your IQ indicator above seems to be reading correct...

>>> Phil
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 06-02-2004, 12:24 AM:
 
I think I will ride my skateboard to work today.
 

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Posted by Josh Jones (Member # 447) on 06-02-2004, 02:31 AM:
 
actually Joe, my 4.5 gallon tank will get me about 240 miles.

Eat that

Josh

PS 14K redline here...
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 06-02-2004, 02:45 AM:
 
hahahaha....a skateboard will get better than that.

Now, all I have to do is learn how to ride the SOB.

I guess I'll have to find some little punk that will teach me how to ride the damn thing. Finding one should be easy...we have plenty of punks up here. In fact, we are overwhelmed with them - even at the theater.

The old Diesel truck I used to have redlined at 2200 RPM. String some piano wire through the muffler...then go down the main drag. Take it up against the governor at 2200 PRM and watch the windows in the business establishments shatter, especially if you have the piano wire tuned to resonance.
 

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Posted by Rob Butler (Member # 2274) on 06-02-2004, 08:54 AM:
 
Old diesel trucks are great, when you fill the tank, if you put in a few gallons of gas, it really takes off.

I once put premium gas and half a bottle of octane booster into an old WheelHorse ride-on lawnmower with a 12 hp Kholer engine, I also had a piece of kite string tied to the governor which when pulled caused the thing to go so damn fast for about 100 yds till the piston rod shattered into 4 pieces!
 

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