This is topic Portable music / voice recording device recommendations? in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 06-07-2004, 08:28 PM:
 
I've been thinking about getting one of those portable music players to use for jogging and stuff like that. But I am also interested in one that can do things like voice recordings.

With sign design being my day job, I used to keep a micro-cassette recorder handy for whenever I was driving around at night. I could record quick remarks about businesses with signs in need of repair. Quick responses to customers could generate a good amount of money. But I lost that damned recorder and would like to get some kind of replacement.

Do most portable music players feature the voice recording capability? I'd also like to hear some opinions about hard drive based units versus those using flash memory cards instead.
 
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-07-2004, 09:21 PM:
 
Gaa!! Where is forum member Jeff Skallan when you need him? He sent me a URL that showed a Creative Labs (I think.... not sure)unit that looked prety cool, had optical digital in and out and could record uncompressed.

I would avoid the iPod like the plague due to it's lack of inputs and the fact that they get real kooky with their rights management stuff. Way too invasive if you ask me.[av=k]
 
Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 06-07-2004, 09:56 PM:
 
Yeah, the iPods kind of turn me off for their "rights management" features and stuff like that. Also, the lack of voice recording kind of nixes the deal. In fact, most hard drive based players I've seen lack any voice recording capability.

I've seen pretty decent reviews about the music players from iRiver (yeah, very UNimaginative brand name ripping off from Apple's theme). The only downside to them is the lack of expandability. There's no slot for an SD or MMC card.

I visited the Rio Music website to check out their flash memory based players. Their units have SD/MMC expansion slots, but voice record capability is not mentioned.
 
Posted by Mike Olpin (Member # 1115) on 06-08-2004, 02:05 AM:
 
Umm.. I don't know where you hearing this.

The iPod has a voice recorder adapter available as well as a microphone input adapter. I don't know what you mean by rights management. If you record to it, you can share those files with anybody. If you (dare I say) illegally download mp3s, the iPod will still play them.

I've had an iPod since the day they were available, and have never regretted it.
 
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-08-2004, 03:54 AM:
 
The iPod does all kinds of funky shit. It will only let you transfer files back and forth a limited amount of times, Apple's super-crappy AAC files have restrictions built right into them which restrict their import to iTunes and the iPod, burning onto CD, etc etc etc. This digital rights management stuff sucks.

Also, I really don't trust Apple. They are the type of company that will release a piece of new software, then release a "patch" for the older version that is supposedly an upgrade for those users, but in actuality lessens the performance in subtle ways, making the user want the new version even more *cough* Mac OS 9.2.2 *cough* [av=c]
 
Posted by David M. Dorn (Member # 2298) on 06-08-2004, 09:09 AM:
 
I have the Rio RipFlash PLUS. It will record voice with the built in mic.

I have also connected its line-in to the head phone output on my computer and recorded music as MP3 files. After downloading the MP3 in to my computer and burning it to a CD I can not really tell any differnce in quality. This technque means almost any souce is accessable.
 
Posted by Rob Butler (Member # 2274) on 06-08-2004, 10:35 AM:
 
I had a Jukebox Recorder 15 by Archos, I don't think they make them anymore, but this thing had a 15gb laptop harddrive wich I had most of my CD collection on. The thing was about the size of an Ipod, but at the time when I bought it ($250 @ Circuit City), Apple only had Ipods up to 256mb. It was great, rock solid, and had both digital and analog recording inputs as well as a built in mic. After a year or so, the power jack inside the unit broke off the PCB, although it was still under warranty, I made the stupid mistake of saying to myself "so what, I'll just crack it open and solder it back on", thus destroying the unit.

Now, I have a 40GB Creative Nomad Zen Xtra ($270 @ Best Buy), and I gotta say I love this thing, I have every cd I own on there and I only used up a quarter of the total capacity. Although it lacks the recording capabilities, it has features up the wazoo, including a built in graphic EQ, and it sorts files by the IDE tags embedded within the files, not the filenames. The sound quality is great as well, I use it almost constantly in my pickup, and when I have to stay late at work, I just plug it into the booth monitor. The whole thing is just barely a little bigger than the Ipod (and looks a lot cooler in my opinion).

I suggest going to Cnet.com and click on Music, that's how I found mine.
 
Posted by Mike Olpin (Member # 1115) on 06-08-2004, 12:43 PM:
 
quote: Joe Redifer
It will only let you transfer files back and forth a limited amount of times, Apple's super-crappy AAC files have restrictions built right into them which restrict their import to iTunes and the iPod, burning onto CD, etc etc etc. This digital rights management stuff sucks.
That only applies to AAC files downloaded from iTunes music store. AAC/MP3/AIFF files you rip yourself are not protected and have no restrictions.

Here is a link to an article describing Apples FairPlay DMR. I think you will find that it is much more generous than dmrs most other companies use.

The only mention of iPod is "you're allowed to put a song on an unlimited number of iPods"
 
Posted by Brian Michael Weidemann (Member # 2243) on 06-08-2004, 03:06 PM:
 
I've got the iRiver iFP-390T, with 256 megs, which is really all I need in terms of space. It's pretty good. It has a 3.5mm stereo line-in for recording up to 44.1kHz 320kbps stereo, as well as an internal mic for recording up to 44.1kHz 160kbps mono. It transfers to the computer, automatically encoding to .mp3. It works great. Batteries last quite well.

It won't let you upload .mp3 files to a computer, though. But anything you record with the device can be uploaded. That's really as far as the rights management goes. It also has an FM tuner, which you can use to listen to or record straight from radio. Not bad reception, either.

My only complaint is the earphones it comes with. The cord to one ear is much longer than the one to the other, so it's designed to hang to a side, which is quite annoying, especially for someone anal like me, who "shortened" one of them by electrical taping the cords folding over itself so they're the same length.
 
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-19-2004, 12:11 AM:
 
Well is anyone gonna recommend a player for Phil? I locked his thread because this one is better. He's looking for something cheap, like himself. [av=m]
 
Posted by Brian Michael Weidemann (Member # 2243) on 06-19-2004, 07:59 PM:
 
And I get the impression that this one is better because it's the one Phil hasn't tainted yet, eh?
 
Posted by Jason Black (Member # 684) on 06-23-2004, 12:02 AM:
 
Joe,

Don't forget his need for "ease of use".. LOL.. just like himself... cheap N easy.. [Smile]

(Phil, have ya missed me buddy?)
 
Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 08-31-2005, 09:26 PM:
 

It has been 434 days since the last post.


 
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 08-31-2005, 09:26 PM:
 
I have decided that I hate the iPod. It is worthless. I recently received a brand new iPod Mini for free as a bonus from my place of employment. I have never been so frustrated with an electronic device in all my life. It is very user UNfriendly, and I consider myself EXTREMELY adept with electronic equipment as well as computer software, especially Apple's. Allow me to explain my hell.

First of all, the iPod wants to update itself whenever you connect it to your computer. This sucks ass because that means you MUST keep an exact copy of what is on your iPod in your iTunes at ALL TIMES on your computer. Change one thing and it changes on your iPod as well. Decide to listen to a file someone sends you in iTunes and forget to remove it and it will end up on your iPod. LAME! Use iTunes to convert a file (a sound effect for use in Final Cut Pro, perhaps) to a different format and forget to remove it and you suddenly have a whole bunch of sound effects that you don't need on your iPod. Remove a song from your playlist in iTunes for whatever reason and it is suddenly GONE from your iPod. Copy a CD to AAC or MP3 or whatever and you must leave the ripped files on your computer or they will be deleted from your iPod, even though you have the CD. It needs to be on your computer wasting space if you want to keep it on your iPod. iTunes is your iPod at all times. This severely limits how I use iTunes, which I usually use for casual listening and sound/music auditioning. I sometimes leave new playlists in there when perusing music and whatnot and then delete them later when I am done.

The other option is to manually update the iPod. Doing this you can drag a playlist to the iPod and it will update whatever is new. But suddenly I found myself having 5 copies of every song in certain playlists. You have to drag each song individually to the iPod if you don't want dupes. And I still haven't found a way to manually delete a song from the iPod's master library yet (it deletes from the playlist, but it is still on the iPod and can still be played).

I decided to try to let the iPod update itself and suddenly it couldn't find a ton of songs and started deleting them from itself since I had moved them (why not, it was already on the iPod, no reason to keep it around taking up space on my computer anymore). Out of frustration I just unplugged the iPod while it was blinking red saying "DO NOT REMOVE" and literally just tossed it over my shoulder. It is completely worthless and cannot compare to the user friendliness and manageability of MiniDisc (press "record" to record, and "stop" when you are done. And that's what you have on that disc forever unless you decide to erase it).

The usage of the iPod itself is also a pain in the ass. Try to skip to the next track or back up to listen to the song again, and if you don't move your thumb just right you end up adjusting the volume up or down due to the crappy "click wheel" design! Very annoying. You can press the center button so that the click wheel moves back and forth through the song instead of adjusting the volume or adjusts the "star level" of the song (whatever the hell good that is supposed to be. Retarded) but regadless of what you do the click wheel remains extremely sensitive. Trying to navigate through the tons upon tons of menus is very difficult due to this oversensitivity. The unit itself has very few external buttons which makes using it a pain. There needs to be a "backlight" button. Instead, every time you skip a track or adjust the volume the backlight comes on for a preset amount of time even when you don't need it, just to annoy the shit out of you. If you just want to look and see what track is playing, you must adjust the volume just so the backlight comes on. It's either that or no backlight at all ever. What a horrible design this thing has!

The sound quality also has a considerable amount of distortion. I think the amp/preamp in this thing is asstastic. It can't deliver the same punch as my Sharp MiniDisc player without breaking up. The "bass boost" function really distorts it even more instead of nicely enhancing the lows with my super-nice headphones. There is no STOP button, only PAUSE. No OFF button, either. I hate this thing. I want to throw it in the trash. But maybe I'll sell it on eBay or something.

Bottom line: The iPod is a perfect example of form over function.

My name is Joe Redifer and this is my story of my iPod. I'm sure Mike Olpin will be along soon to defend it.
 
Posted by Jason Black (Member # 684) on 08-31-2005, 09:51 PM:
 
Joe,

Being the great guy I am.. an dnot wanting you to have a useless piece of junk laying around collecting dust and taking up your valuable space... I'm willing to take this device off your hands free of charge... [Smile]

You can send it to me at
1175 Celebrity Circle
Myrtle Beach, SC 29577

Thank you.
 
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 08-31-2005, 09:55 PM:
 
Sure. Just pay the $150 shipping and handling charge and you'll have it in no time flat! It was a bonus from work, and dagnabbit I'm gonna get my bonus one way or the other!
 
Posted by Jason Black (Member # 684) on 09-01-2005, 12:15 AM:
 
LOL.. I'm pondering getting one from Fox Rewards... a sort of Bonus as well..
 
Posted by Brian Michael Weidemann (Member # 2243) on 09-01-2005, 01:51 AM:
 
I have heard before that this is how iTunes, iPods, and Macs try to operate. If you have a bunch of infrared Mac laptops in a room, they'll start copying and transfering files between them, so that everyone has the same stuff. Well, that's what I heard, anyway.

I refuse to have anything to do with iPods or iTunes. WinAmp v2.80 is PERFECT! I can open any number of instances of it, each with different playlists, it NEVER tries to search my directories or make its own playlists or "libraries". And no matter what skin you load to it, ALL the buttons are ALWAYS in the same spot. Intuitive, no hazzle functionality!

I use WinAmp to play files, and NOTHING else. I use MusicMatch to rip CD's, and NOTHING else. I use Nero to burn CD's, and NOTHING else. I use my iRiver portable mp3 player software to transfer to my iRiver portable mp3 player, and NOTHING else.

Who ever told these companies that we want ONE program to do it all? I have more advanced features in many SPECIALIZED programs than I do in one Does-It-All program that does more things you DON'T want it to than things you DO.

I still love my iRiver portable. It records great, plays great, and has no hard drive with moving parts that'll wear out!
 
Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 09-01-2005, 02:27 AM:
 
My PDA (an HP Ipaq 2110) has an audio recording and playback function, including a built-in microphone. It'll play MP3 and WMA and has two memory card slots, one CF and one SD. If you wanted to, you could put 2gb of flash memory in it, which is enough for severak CDs' worth of MP3 audio. The playback quality is OK but nothing special. I don't use its audio functions that often, though. One of these wouldn't be much use if you want to carry around tens of gigabytes of music, but if you only want 3-5 hours' worth at any one time and would find the other features of a PDA (e.g. address book, calendar and email) more useful, this is one option.
 
Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 09-01-2005, 04:06 AM:
 
quote: Brian Michael Weidemann
I have heard before that this is how iTunes, iPods, and Macs try to operate. If you have a bunch of infrared Mac laptops in a room, they'll start copying and transfering files between them, so that everyone has the same stuff. Well, that's what I heard, anyway.
Not the way it works; at least not with what's available today. I suppose it's possible that there may have been versions in the past that behaved in a strange way.

To take iPods first, they talk USB 2.0 or Firewire 400 (IEEE 1394a), older ones were Firewire only. They do not have IRDA, Bluetooth etc., so they won't sync with anything unless you plug them in. Nor do they talk to each other, only to iTunes. I believe there are now third-party products which can be used instead of iTunes, but you have to use something like that, you can't just drag a .mp3 or.aac file to the iPod; that will copy the file to the iPods disk, but you won't be able to play it.

ITunes will talk to other copies of itself running on other machines over a network. If you have chosen to share your music library, or any part of it, then people on those other machines will be able to play your music on their machine (assuming that it is not protected content, (see later), but not copy it to their machines, delete it, or do anything else. By default sharing is turned off.

When an iPod syncs to iTunes the the iPod content is changed (files added or deleted) to match the copy on iTunes; the copy on the computer is not changed. The iPod disk can be formatted for pc (FAT32) or Mac. Apple say that it must be formatted for the machine type you are going to use, but a FAT 32 iPod will work with iTunes on a Mac, I have my one done that way.

An iPod can be set to sync automatically as soon as it connects, or only when you tell it to. This setting is stored on the iPod, not the computer, which can cause problems if you are not careful. If you have auto sync turned on, and you connect your iPod to another machine (Quite a useful thing to do, as it can be used as a USB or Firewire portable hard disk for just moving files around) and that other computer has iTunes installed then your music on the iPod will be deleted and replaced by that from the other computer; there is no warning. You cannot choose to just add any extra 'songs' which are found on the other machine, everything will be replaced. I always keep sync turned off on my iPod, except when I actually intend to update it. It's all a bit quirky, but you get used to it. If you want to move a music library from one computer to another it's just a matter of moving one folder to the other machine by any means you choose. You can do this between a Mac and pc; the files are compatible.

The music files are stored in a strange way on the iPod; tunes from the same album will be stored in different folders, but the same folder will contain tunes from several albums, and the files are given meaningless names; I don't know why.

On the iPod Photo, which I have, pictures sync to iPhoto in a similar way to songs sync to iTunes, but there are separate settings for each. The way that contacts and calendar items sync is different in system 10.4, where it is done through iTunes, and earlier versions, where it was done through iSync. In 10.4 it is no longer possible to use isync to do this. Contacts and calendars cannot be synced directly with a pc, there are ways of doing it, but it's messy.

The iPod will not handle e-mail as such, but it can store, and display, text files, so if there's a message which you need to carry with you then you can paste the contents into a text file.

Music download from the iTunes Store is in AAC format, and is protected. You can authorise several, think it's five, computers to play this material; after this you have to de-authorise one before you can add another. This works for all music that you have downloaded on your account; you cannot authorise some music on different computers to others. IPods do not need to be authorised, and you can make multiple CDs from a playlist; there is a limit to the number, but I can't remember what it is. It really is a pretty good system, and doesn't stop you doing anything that you might reasonably want to do. If you want to de-authorise a computer, but cannot get into iTunes on that machine, e.g. if it has died and you are replacing it with a new one, then you have to contact Apple; I've never had to do this, so I don't know how easy it is to do.
 
Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 02-04-2007, 10:02 AM:
 

It has been 521 days since the last post.


 
Posted by Greg Anderson (Member # 235) on 02-04-2007, 10:02 AM:
 
Things have changed a bit in the iPod world since anyone touched this thread. Any current thoughts? I have avoided buying an iPod (or competing brand) so far and my iPaq has been very useful because, as stated earlier, it can play MP3 and Windows Media files. But I'm considering a dedicated digital music player. Recommendations? Which player do you absolutely love?
 
Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 02-04-2007, 12:29 PM:
 
The Creative Labs Zen V Plus is an excellent alternative to the iPod. It has lots of features the iPod does not have (FM/AM tuner, voice recording, etc.).

For those who cannot stand the very closed iTunes/iPod system of managining music files and other media, the Zen V Plus is a very open, straight-forward kind of player.
 
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-04-2007, 05:20 PM:
 
I have the 4 gig SanDisk Sansa and it is sofar great
 
Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 02-05-2007, 04:13 AM:
 
I have a Creative Sports Muvo C100 player, the one that looks like a sports stopwatch. And indeed it does have a stopwatch function and is splash proof. 256MB internal memory, and 512MB external memory via a mini SD chip. Plus date and time and AM/FM radio. Got it at Fry's during a sale. No voice recording capability. Pretty slick.
 
Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 02-07-2007, 02:14 PM:
 
I've been looking at iPods and their competitors quite a bit lately.

I have a Sandisk M240, which is a very basic 1GB player with no video capability. The battery life on a single AAA is great, because there's no huge LCD, no hard drive, and no video. Sound quality is also very good, even with the included earbuds. I bought it for a good deal at the time ($80), and they can be found now for $40-$60 depending on sales.

Last April, I wanted to buy my Mom a portable music player for her birthday. At the time, the Sandisk was still around $100, and sync'ing to it with Windows Media Player isn't as brain dead simple as it is was with the iPod Nano and iTunes.

Since she doesn't live nearby, I wanted brain dead simple to cut down on her frustration and the inevitable tech support calls.

I bought her a 1GB iPod Nano, and she's been very happy with it. It's very slim, almost too much so for my taste, and the display is nice for displaying cover art. She is now outgrowing the 1GB of space, so in retrospect, I guess I should have sprung for the 2GB model.

As for me, I know that I want much more storage than 1GB. I'd like to have a wide variety of music available on the device without having to think too much about it, so right now, the 8GB flash-based models are in my radar. Another alternative is going hard-drive based, and having the luxury of storing all my music, plus videos, plus data, etc. The cost of 30GB hard drive based models is similar to 8GB flash-based models. This is true whether you are talking iPod or non-iPod, as long as you compare the two models from the same side of the fence.

Whether you choose an iPod or a non-iPod (basically, there are two camps, with the Zune trying to carve out a third and will fail in my estimation), might have more to do with the entire system surrounding the choice than the player itself. I'm not in love with the iPod, but I'm not a hater of it either.

The first thing to look at is the player/sync software you are going to use. iTunes is simple and straightforward, but definitely lacking as a player and organizer of media. I like that it has podcasting support built-in; shame on WMP for not including it yet!

I have never bought music online, and don't have any plans to, so the music stores behind these services hold little sway with me. I like having CD's and ripping them myself, thanks. I'll admit that what Apple is doing with TV shows and even movies on the iTunes store is very intriguing, but I'm getting ahead of myself.

Apple says that it doesn't believe in subscription services, but I believe that in this day and age of DRM taking away your ability to really own downloaded music, subscription services are the way to go. This is where non-iPods have the leg up. Services like Rhapsody, MusicMatch and Yahoo Music to Go, etc. offer access to a wide variety of music for a monthly fee. Non-iPods definitely have the advantage when it comes to choices, both in players used to sync, and in music purchase/subscription services.

If all you ever plan to do is listen to music on the portable player and via the computer-based player, this is as far as you need to go to determine which way to go.

The next part to look at is where it gets complicated. The path you choose will dictate what you are able to do in addition to simply listening to music on a portable.

I have a music player in my entertainment rack (AudioTron) that accesses the music files on my server and plays them through my whole house. It has a front panel, a remote, and even a web-based interface to control it. Very cool, and I would never, ever go back to shuffling CD's, ever again.

The modern-day equivalents to the now-extinct AudioTron is the Slim Devices Squeezebox on the non-iPod side, and the iPod side of things offers the AirPort Express Base Station with AirTunes, which is more of a hack than anything, but they are just coming out with the Apple TV product, which has a lot of potential.

The integration that products like the Squeezebox and AppleTV offer take a simple music player to the next level of functionality. The portable device is just one element in a larger system, and choosing which player to buy may be dictated by these larger issues.

The biggest issue I have with my AudioTron is that I am not able to see its display on my TV screen or modulate its output so that I can see it on any of the TV's in my home. I would also like the ability to play lossless files, and it doesn't do that.

The Squeezebox doesn't offer on-screen display, but it does offer a great reputation for audio quality, and its integration with the Pandora and Rhapsody music services is a definitely plus.

The Apple TV product is very intriguing to me. Apple is poised to hit the living room like they have everyone's shirt pocket. They are putting the pieces in place that could eventually replace network television as the primary method by which we watch TV shows in the same way that downloaded and ripped music is replacing broadcast radio.

It's all exciting to a gadget-hound like me, and the only regrets I have is that I don't have unlimited amounts of money to play with everything, and lacking unlimited wealth, that a choice has to be made about going the Apple/iPod route or the non-Apple route. For the most part, they aren't interoperable beyond core functions, and by doing so, you lose the advantages that the homogenous system provides.

Here's a short list of the portable music players that I'm considering:
 
Posted by Dieter Depypere (Member # 3184) on 02-08-2007, 11:49 AM:
 
I have bought the Ipod nano (4 GB) recently.
What annoys me is the fact that you have to use Itunes. But it makes a quite acceptable portable player though.
 
Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 02-08-2007, 12:35 PM:
 
quote: Scott Jentsch
I have a music player in my entertainment rack (AudioTron) that accesses the music files on my server and plays them through my whole house. It has a front panel, a remote, and even a web-based interface to control it. Very cool, and I would never, ever go back to shuffling CD's, ever again.
Are you ripping LPCM quality .WAV files to the server? If you're lossy compressing the music files what are you giving up to have the data placed in a centralized location?

As gigantic (and affordable) as hard discs have become, I see less and less relevance for severe compression formats like MP3 -at least in terms of in-the-home use.

A single 300GB 7200rpm external hard disc can be purchased for as little as $80 and can hold over 400 uncompressed LPCM music CDs. The actual number is probably quite a bit higher considering lots of pre-recorded music CDs don't completely fill up the 74-80 minutes of CD data capacity.

Flash based portable music players have much smaller levels of capacity. Even still, a 4GB iPod Nano (or similar device) has more than enough space to hold several uncompressed or lossless compressed music CDs.

I've never gotten into the iPod thing largely because of the constraints in such a very closed music purchasing and playback system. The DRM in each iTunes file makes the setup even more of a pain. The small 128kb/s AAC data rate on the music files seems even more punishing. It would seem like, for all the compromises and freedoms you must sacrifice to use iTunes, that there would be some kind of high quality pay off to make the system worth it. Too much is given up just to make things easy.
 
Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 02-09-2007, 11:42 AM:
 
Bobby,

I agree with your sentiments.

When I went through my CD collection and ripped every one of them to MP3, I did so at 128kbps. At the time, I couldn't tell a substantial difference, and disc space wasn't as easy to come by as it is today. Over the years, I've inched that up to 192kbps, and I've been happy with the results so far. The ideal, however, is to go lossless, since I have the hard drive space to do so (or can buy more for a little $$).

Keeping the tracks in uncompressed PCM (.wav) format is not practical, as WAV files do not support tagging, which is required to keep a large music collection organized and to be able to select music based on more than just the album directory to which it was ripped.

My perfect world, and one I'm still trying to find, is to have my entire collection ripped to a lossless format (Apple Lossless, Windows Media Lossless, or FLAC, doesn't much matter to me). That's the archive.

The whole house music source would draw from the archive directly and supply me with music as good as the source. My AudioTron is too old to support any lossless format besides WAV, so that's currently not possible until I replace it with something new (Squeezebox or AppleTV).

My desktop PC can play any of the lossless formats, so I'm good there.

The difficulty comes in when the portable is introduced into the system. In an ideal world, when I sync'd the portable with the music I wanted to fill it with, the music would be transferred as-is (if there's room) or converted down to a lower bitrate in order to fit onto the player.

A hard drive based player in the range of 30-60GB would allow me to transfer quite a bit of music in lossless format, but the 8GB flash-based players don't have enough room to enjoy that luxury.

Windows Media Player does support converting music to a lower bitrate when transferring to a portable, and I'm investigating that option now. Unfortunately, my current MP3 player doesn't support any lossless format.

I can't tell if iTunes supports that feature, so I guess I need to find someone who has an iPod and try it.

This is what I mean by looking at music as a larger system than just downloading to a portable. Maybe I'm just strange and overthinking things (which I'm apt to do), but I want things to work for me in multiple ways, and I don't like jumping through hoops all the time to get things to work.

Apple has a possible hit on their hands with the AppleTV product. It has a few issues which will prevent its wide adoption right away (having to be hooked up to an HDTV is a big one), but it has the potential to be a huge factor in the living room.
 




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