Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Need help with older outdoor Daktronics sign

This is topic Need help with older outdoor Daktronics sign in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by John Hegel (Member # 628) on 09-17-2004, 01:44 AM:

Does anyone here have any experience with older Daktronics equipment?

From what I am told this sign used to use the "Venus 2000" operating system. The people that had the building before me threw the computer away so I am not sure as to what I need to test/get this thing running.

From what I understand the computer itself was a IBM brand 386 with some type of 15 pin (almost like a game port) card that connected to the sign controller.

I don't have the make or model of the sign itself, but next time I'm on the roof I'll see if I can find it.

Thanks for your input

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 09-19-2004, 02:42 PM:

I'm sure Daktronics can help you identify the equipment needed to run the sign.

Most older electronic message centers used proprietary boards installed into PCs for controlling the sign. So it is very likely you would not have a software-only solution to use in a newer computer.

The situation is easier with newer message centers, although you may still have to buy a little specialized hardware, such as radio transceivers to communicate with the sign. You either have to do that or spend some money digging a trench and running fiber-optic cable to the sign.

There are a couple possible roadblocks in the situation with this message center. If it is a "flipper" unit, you may be out of luck. The old flip type signs (the ones with those fluorescent yellow discs/panels that spin) have been phased out of production at most message center companies, including Daktronics. Even the previous generation of 5-watt wedge-based light bulb message centers are rapidly disappearing. Everything is going over to LED very fast. Full color-LED message centers are even becoming more common.

Our sign company has a couple customers trying to keep old flip-type message centers alive. All we can do is try to repair and jerry-rig the existing parts that fail because it is getting impossible to find replacement parts. And the few parts that are available are often commanding very high prices. This is just part of the overall plan to get customers to upgrade to new LED message centers.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 09-19-2004, 02:59 PM:

They use _radio_ to communicate with these signs? Hmm. :thinks evil thoughts: [evil]

...

Posted by John Hegel (Member # 628) on 09-20-2004, 01:09 AM:

Thanks for the help

I called Daktronics and the best they would say is that they no longer support the Venus 2000 software/hardware. They are more then willing to sell me the upgrade control box for $2,500 but that doesn't help me in deciding if the sign works at all.

It is a 11 watt bulb incandescent scrolling sign.

I'm trying to be cheap and only use this thing on a temporary bases, so I'm hesitant on having a service person come out to tell me if it will work at all.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 09-20-2004, 01:40 AM:

Better yet Scott, some of them only transmit when there's a display update. You don't even need to try to over power their transmitter. [evil]

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 09-20-2004, 10:49 AM:

While it is possible for one to hack into a message center with radio transmission, it is not as easy as it would seem. Also, would it be worth the money you're going to have to spend in order to do it?

Depending on the model of wireless transceiver used, you're looking at spending at least several hundred dollars up to a couple thousand. Oh, and you need the correct message center communications software. That's going to cost you even more money, provided you can even get the message center company to sell it to you straight without going through a sign company first. That kind of specialized, niche software is not the kind of thing that is going to show up on P2P networks like KaZaa.

Finally, you'll have to make a visit to whatever terminal is being used to control the sign. You'll need the sign address, password as well as the data formats being used for communication.

For all the trouble involved, it certainly would remove a lot of the humor in having a bank sign saying things like "kiss my ass" etc.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 09-20-2004, 11:26 AM:

Obviously, I wasn't serious about changing signs. I just found the idea that it could be done without physically splicing into the control cables amusing.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 09-20-2004, 05:10 PM:

They're only serial transcievers. It's not that hard to capture the data you need.

I know for sure that there are at least a few models of LED boards, using wired serial links, that you can program with your favourite terminal program. Been there, done that (sign 'server' died). Of course learning the protocol is the difficult part.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 09-20-2004, 06:01 PM:

Knowing the data protocol, among other technical things, is what would instantly point to a sign industry person being the culprit in case a message center was hacked to display funny or nasty messages.

While I don't have the greatest amount of respect for some of the people working in the sign industry (there's a good number of talent-less, unqualified people screwing up things) I would be amazed if any sign guy would be stupid enough to hack message centers put up by a rival company. The act would just scare people away from message centers altogether in the market affected.

Still, any message center needs to have at least some decent security. Any modern message center software has password protected communications. The more critical thing is security on the computer itself. I advise customers to have the control computer as a standalone machine not hooked to any network, and that it must be at least a Win2000 or WinXP Pro machine with a password protected user login. That would usually be enough to keep even a disgruntled sign guy from being able to do any damage.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 09-20-2004, 06:04 PM:

How 'bout an electrical and computer engineer who specialized in data communications? [evil]

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 09-20-2004, 06:23 PM:

You'll still need a key to get into the building to check out the master machine, and maybe even a crane truck to get into the sign to see what's going on there. One of the lines of message centers we use has three different kinds of transceivers that can be used.
[Big Grin]

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 09-20-2004, 06:29 PM:

Good thing I've got credit at AeroComm!

Posted by Jeff Taylor (Member # 443) on 09-20-2004, 07:51 PM:

We use a cell phone to download instructions to our signs. The sign has one of the bag type cell units with a 12v power supply, and it's never given any problems. ...a LOT cheaper than hard wiring.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 09-20-2004, 08:18 PM:

Yikes! Bag phones! Run away! We had one message center configured with a bag phone and it was a huge headache. After about a year of switching out phones and other hardware we coverted over to a wireless transceiver system and it worked fine.

Jeff, you're one of the lucky ones with your setup not giving you problems. What make of message center is it?