Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: UPS (power supplies, not shipping)

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 09-19-2004, 04:23 PM:

I have an APC (or something like that. It has 3 letters as the brand name and there is an "A", a "P", and a "C", and I think they are in that order) uninterrupted power supply on my computer. It cost nearly $100 or so. I have tested it in the past by unplugging it from the wall and the power to the computer stays running. I plug it back in and all is well. I assumed the unit was doing its job.

Every once in a while I'll hear a quick buzz followed by a beep coming from the unit itself. Today the power went out here for 2 seconds. The entire computer went down right away. Did I mention that the power was only off for 2 seconds? The thing has been plugged into the wall for nearly 6 months now (since I bought it) so I feel it has probably had enough time to charge its batteries to last two whole seconds. The APC UPS does not work as advertised. I also had this same problem with a Belkin UPS.

Are UPS's only good for one power outtage and then they never work again? Are they supposed to suck as much ass as this?

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 09-19-2004, 04:38 PM:

Joe, sounds like a possible loose neutral on the circuit you're plugged into. Especially if this has happened to you with two different UPS. The buzz is the clue. And the loss for only two seconds. Did your lights in the room also flare up or dim when it happened?
It is normal for most UPS to beep every now and then, it usually means there was a sag or spike in the power that caused it to switch to battery backup.
My APC BACKUPS-500 is over three years old and hasn't missed a beat yet.
APC has excellent product support and you can go online at http://apc.com and get an answer to your situation. And since the unit is less than a year old they'll exchange it.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 09-19-2004, 04:43 PM:

The power in the entire place went out for 2 seconds.

Also, it's not really a buzz, but more of a slow click. Pressing the button off and then back on on the UPS itself makes the same noise. Need an MP3? [Smile]

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 09-19-2004, 04:48 PM:

Ahhhh...I think your best bet here would be to contact APC tech support...a total outage should be ridden through without any problems at all.

edit: Naw, the click is from the control relay..am familiar with that sound. [Smile]

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-19-2004, 04:51 PM:

I've seen APC unit's batteries just die unbeknownst to the user. That could be your problem. Not bashing APC inparticular, it just seems to be the brand everyone uses, and I've had a few of the lower model ones die like that.

Posted by Bruce Hansen (Member # 281) on 09-19-2004, 05:29 PM:

I've noticed that some of these UPS's send too high a voltage to the battery causing it to overcharge, and burn itself early. A 12 volt gel cell (lead acid) battery under constant charge should have no more than 13.5 volts across it when fully charged. I have seen 15 or 16 volts across the battery on some UPS's. If this is the case, your battery is cooked, or there could be something wrong with the electronics in the unit. If it is under warranty, send it back, if not, see if you can test the battery. Try charging it, and then discharging it (put a light across it).

Posted by Erick Akers (Member # 875) on 09-19-2004, 08:34 PM:

Joe
I have both trip lite and APC, and from experience I can tell you now that APC stands for Absolutely Positivly Crap!!!
Your battery is toast no doubt about it!

They sometimes make good on a replacement, but don't hold your
breath. [thumbsdown]

I have gotten 4 years out of my Trip-Lite oem battery,but only about 1 year out of an APC after warranty service.

I gave up and made a trek to the battery store and got a much better one for the APC and it has been running for about 3 years.

Trip -Lite rocks as far as customer service! [thumbsup]

Posted by Matthew Bailey (Member # 601) on 09-20-2004, 01:03 PM:

Toshiba UPS's i think are what you should get. According to the brochure, they're designed to deliver a totally clean output even in bypass.

Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 09-20-2004, 01:30 PM:

Joe,
We've got an APC Smart UPS3000 here at the office that powers the whole network in the event of a power failure. First year we had it, it died, and they (APC) replaced it with no questions whatsoever. About two months ago, the original batteries finally gave out and I ended up replacing them for a cost of about $179.00+/-. I had problems getting the new batteries to charge, and I when I called APC support, they had me up and running within 20 minutes.

I have a smaller unit at the drive-in that I have the sound-rack plugged into. If I ever loose power, I can still transmit information to the field for about 15 minutes before the batteries drain.

Posted by Ben Holley (Member # 2247) on 09-20-2004, 02:10 PM:

Do you have your printer plugged into the UPS? I've been told that you are never to have certain types of printers (laserprinters maybe?) plugged in. I dont know how that would affect anything unless you are printing something, but who knows, just a suggestion.

[ 09-20-2004, 07:49 PM: Message edited by: Ben Holley ]

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 09-20-2004, 02:46 PM:

I would assume a laser printer would be quite a power-eater, given the heated fuser for the toner.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 09-20-2004, 04:28 PM:

There's a reason APC is the leader in uninterruptable power supplies, and it's not because they aren't good.

Their support and warranty service is as good or better than anyone else's.

Of course the majority of their products sold are the high end BackUPS, etc. that feature an array of extra features compared to their consumer of cheaper units. It wouldn't surprise me if the quality control, or more specifically testing of the Pb batteries, isn't as good as the multi thousand dollar enterprise units.

My desktop uses a APC BackUPS 500 that is 16 years old, on it's second set of batteries. I bought the replacement battery at Princess Auto (a big industrial junk shop with projectionist friendly hours). I've never had a problem with it. Of the other 200+ APC UPSes I've used I've had far fewer failures with them than any other make, including TripeLite, and not a single problem/failure that they didn't make right by replacing the unit (fast). Most TI/CDS digital cinema installs also use rackmount APC BackUPS for what it's worth.

They say not to use high draw devices like laser printers not so much because the supply can't handle the load (many can), it's that the load is all over the place, and few supplies can handle that. The ones that can certainly aren't cheap.

You also shouldn't use UPSes with devices that don't like to see square wave mains input. Which brings up Joe's buzz... a 'small' buzz is normal... that's the supply producing 'just passable AC' out of a DC source.

Posted by Dean Kollet (Member # 1789) on 09-21-2004, 10:27 AM:

yeah...APC makes quality stuff. I had a battery go out after two years and they send me one overnight no questions asked. They also are good about sending free gifts to their customers (at least they did a few years back). I got an RJ-45 Inline Surge protector for free on many occasions, and their customer service/tech support people were very nice and informative.

They back what is already a good product IMO

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 09-21-2004, 10:35 AM:

I, too, am happy with APC, especially their phone support, which is excellent.

At home, I have a SMART-UPS 1400, which is about three years old. I just replaced the battery (the old one died right on schedule...). Other than that, I've never had a problem.

I've had dozens of these things at various places of employment, and, again, haven't had any major issues, and none which weren't solved over the phone.

Posted by Dean Kollet (Member # 1789) on 09-21-2004, 03:29 PM:

I'm not completely sure how UPS batteries work, but I think a technology that would allow the batteries to discharge completely and get a good charge would help a little.

I have a Samsung Cell Phone and two identical batteries; the one battery that I let almost die and completely charge every few days still constantly gets 4-5 days standby after a year. The other one which I plug in whenever needed drains in a little over 24 hours.

Posted by Richard Hamilton (Member # 321) on 09-21-2004, 06:37 PM:

Joe,
you must live in a city where the power fluctuates!! I have never had a problem with the Denver power supply, but their phone support is incredible. I know this because I never have a problem, but I still call them to test their support system!!!

Posted by Bruce Hansen (Member # 281) on 09-21-2004, 09:16 PM:

UPSs use a different type of battery than cell phones. UPSs use gel cells. They are somewhat like the battery in your car. You should NEVER let a gel cell discharge all the way down. That will hurt the battery. Always recharge gel cells after every use, no matter how little you use it. If it is not being used, charge it every few months. This is just the opposite of the way you treat a ni-cad. A ni-cad should be discharged almost all the way down before recharging. and should be stored in a discharged state, otherwise it may develop internal shorts, that will cause the battery to self discharge quickly from then on.