Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: What is the point of a Fraternity?

This is topic What is the point of a Fraternity? in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=003619

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 10-07-2004, 07:22 PM:

I am wondering what the point of a college fraternity is. From the evidence I've seen, only complete morons are allowed to join or even pledge. Here in Colorado, fraternity pledges as young as 19 keep drinking themselves to death, literally. I feel no sorrow for the dead kids since their own stupidity is responsible for their death. But is being in a fraternity some super-sweet status symbol or something? Does it add a sense of belonging to kids who feel outcast otherwise? Is it supposed to help guys who normally would have a zero percent chance with girls actually get some? Why do fraternities associate themselves with Greek symbols and words? And what's with the togas? [Smile]

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 10-07-2004, 07:33 PM:

Togas rock. We used to have toga parties fairly often, although we don't have an fraternities.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 10-07-2004, 07:36 PM:

Just a few days ago, there was a frat-related drinking death (likely from a hazing ritual) in a frat house on the Oklahoma University campus in Norman. I believe many fraternities just function as organized peer pressure groups. Frats are a real hazard in Oklahoma since many high school graduates looking to improve themselves just wind up turning into meth addict losers via those frat parties.

I doubt if all frats are bad. But the hazing, violence, drinking deaths, date rape / group rape and drug culture of many frats makes that entire institution look highly suspect. I would encourage students looking to pledge at a fraternity to be very careful. The need to belong to some kind of in-crowd can succeed in wasting lots of your time, screwing up your studies and even messing up your life.

We had no fraternities where I attended college (School of Visual Arts, NYC). No one had any free time for any of that stuff. Same thing goes for organized sports.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 10-07-2004, 07:39 PM:

Why would the colleges keep allowing fraternities to get away with such things? Do they see a party going on at a frat house and just assume that everyone inside is 21 or older or that there is no alcohol? The colleges are just as moronic as the frat members.

Posted by Aaron Mehocic (Member # 15) on 10-07-2004, 09:09 PM:

In fraternities, a college kid is just buying friends. They really serve no purpose in modern society other than limited community service projects like Earth Day trash pick-ups or get-out-the-vote rallies (regardless of party affiliation). Back in colonial times fraternities actually did serve a purpose as peer groups among the younger children of upper crust members in society. The earliest frats in North America can be traced to Ivy League institutions in which Latin and Greek were required courses of study (mostly for men going into the seminary). What was learned in the classroom was given creedence in the real world through names and symbols. Obviously, modern hazing rituals involving alcohol did not exist in those days. Those who "pledged" did so on there sacred honor never to reveal the inner secrets of their clubs (a lot like the infamous Skull and Crossbone fraternity at Yale).

I've never been a member, nor associated with any fraternity. One of my friends was asked to join a fraternity and was given a pledge card. He burned it right in front of two "brothers" so as to get his message across. [Big Grin]

If anything, I'd associate more with an honorary society than a fraternity. They are a lot less assinine about acceptance into the organization and probably would look better on a resume than would a drinking club disguised by a Greek name.

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 10-08-2004, 12:03 AM:

If a frat has lots of members that are in your major, there can be some real benefits to joining. A friend of mine was in Delta Sigma Phi at Franklin & Marshall. At the time most of the members were either Physics or Engineering majors, so he fit right in. The frat house served as a place to go when you needed help with something, plus if you lived in the frat you got a fairly good break on room and board costs compared to living in the dorms or on your own off campus. Greek life was a big part of F&M's culture, Lancaster, PA not being very much of a college town otherwise. And the networking connections you make during those years can pay off handsomely down the road. My school ERAU had very active Alpha Eta Rho (the international fraternity for aviation professionals) chapters on both of its main campuses. Unfortunately, we satellite campus students missed out on that. On the other hand, at many schools Greek life doesn't amount to much. UNLV for example, being mostly a commuter school, doesn't have much of a frat scene.

Yeah, pledge hazing is getting out of hand at some schools. Nobody seems to know when or where to draw the line anymore. My friend has some great stories about the parties they threw--there was always plenty of alcohol around (his frat could have doubled for the Delta's in Animal House). [beer]

But nobody ever got hurt, much less died, due to things like alcohol poisoning. Now it's like people have lost the ability to pace themselves.

[Edit: Fixed clutzy syntax created while under the influence of NyQuil. And one of these days I will learn how to spell.]

[ 10-08-2004, 01:09 PM: Message edited by: Paul Mayer ]

Posted by Greg Davis (Member # 2687) on 10-08-2004, 02:00 AM:

2 words.

Animal House.

Posted by Joshua Waaland (Member # 287) on 10-08-2004, 09:38 AM:

I have never really liked frats nor do I ever see myself liking frats. I agree that they are pretty much just overglorified drinking clubs. Most of the people I knew that were in them were rich and their parents paid for everything. They did not have to work their way through college like a lot of people so they could enjoy the luxury of partying every night.

Posted by Bob Maar (Member # 763) on 10-08-2004, 10:36 AM:

It pays to belong if your are dating the "Sweetheart of Sigma Chi" [Smile]

It's even better when you marry her.

Posted by R. Andrew Diercks (Member # 1725) on 10-08-2004, 10:48 AM:

I have not met a frat member that wasn't an arrogant ass nor have I met a sorority girl that wasn't a snobbish whore. I'm just glad they have eachother. My motto is Friends don't let friends rent friends. I'm sure I haven't met all of the wonderful people that may be in those organizations, but I have yet to be impressed.

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 10-08-2004, 12:42 PM:

Greg, one word: TOGA!

Bob: I've dated a few "sweethearts" from Lambda Lambda Lambda.

R.: Whew! Contrary to other people's opinion, I don't consider myself as arrogant or an ass, however, I won't comment on the "whore" aspect...

>>> Phil

Posted by Jim Spohn (Member # 1547) on 10-08-2004, 12:51 PM:

Like it or not, we are all Film-Tech brothers!!

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 10-08-2004, 02:07 PM:

Ladies and gentlemen, I'll be brief. The issue here is not whether we broke a few rules or took a few liberties with our female party guests -- we did. But you can't hold a whole fraternity responsible for the actions of a few sick, perverted individuals. For if you do, then shouldn't we blame the whole fraternity system? And if the whole fraternity system is guilty, then isn't this an indictment of our educational institutions in general? I put it to you ... isn't this an indictment of our entire American society? Well, you can do what you want to us, but we're not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America!

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 10-08-2004, 03:08 PM:

Well said Otter! [Big Grin]

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 10-08-2004, 04:43 PM:

Having graduated from the University of Maryland in College Park with a very active "Greek" system I can honestly say that other than "Rush Week" I never noticed them very much and my apartment was right behind "Frat Row." Rush week was noisy but I didn't mind it is only one week and you know when it is coming.

As to your friend that was into the physics/engineering thing...I was in engineering (electrical) and if you wanted to find one of us geeks (instead of the greeks) all you needed to do was go to the library...especially the engineering library. I belonged to the IEEE and was active with the UofM chapter. A lot of us hung out there too. There is a bit of that sick, "sticking with your kind," sort of thing all through life. Furthermore, Tau Beta Pi and Eta Kappa Nu were always having "tutor" sessions for those that needed some one-on-one help. So, one needn't belong to a frat (nor even a society) to attain help in their subject from peers.

We on the geek side figured that the Frats used the greek symboles to show they too had some form of intelligence since none of their actual courses would have those symboles in them (unlike those in the Math and Sciences).

I can see that in a well set up Frat, like any organization that actually has organization, there are benifits to funtioning as a group as to an individual. If the frat is nothing more than a drinking club than it is indeed worthless. I didn't see any real problems at UofM though I don't doubt that there were as the "administration" was always trying to push them around. I am sure that many, if not most of the students that pledge received great experiences from the frat system, long lasting friendships and probably decent starts in their post-school lives.

There is good and bad in any group, frats, unions and even citizens. That does not mean the whole system is bad. Every group is not cut out for every person though. The frats never did anything for me but I didn't mind them being there either.

Steve

[ 10-08-2004, 10:04 PM: Message edited by: Steve Guttag ]

Posted by Joshua Waaland (Member # 287) on 10-08-2004, 06:35 PM:

I erased my original content since I found out what I wrote was stupid and I feel like an idiot. Sorry Mike! I am such a hothead. [Frown]

[ 10-12-2004, 09:34 AM: Message edited by: Joshua Waaland ]

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 10-08-2004, 07:01 PM:

quote: Steve Guttag
Tau Beta Pi and Eta Kappa Nu were always having "tutor" sessions for those that needed some one-on-one help.

Hi Steve!

Did you have to craft your own "Bent" for Tau Beta Pi?

I was on the Tau Beta Pi team (SUNY Buffalo, New York Nu) that "certified" the Rochester Institute of Technology (New York Pi) back in 1970.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 10-08-2004, 09:57 PM:

quote: John Pytlak
Did you have to craft your own "Bent" for Tau Beta Pi?

Alas, I pledged neither Honor society though I had close friends that were in both. I put my efforts more into IEEE (like the SMPTE but for Electrical and Electronic Engineers). In my Senior year, I generated quite a bit of revenue for the Society and helped out Tau Beta Pi (located in the room next to ours) with their efforts.

For those not in the know...in Engineering circles, Tau Beta Pi is a big deal...generally, only the best of the best are in that society and at Maryland, it is the only Honor society that is mentioned during the graduation cerimonies (from the School of Engineering).

Steve

Posted by Brent Neal Jones (Member # 1048) on 10-09-2004, 01:46 AM:

quote:
Like it or not, we are all Film-Tech brothers!!

No, just associates. [Wink]

Posted by Dean Kollet (Member # 1789) on 10-09-2004, 02:30 AM:

I'm in a fraternity here at Florida State University, and I seem to always come across this question. Instead of defending it (b/c there is no reason to), I'll try to just explain.

I joined my fraternity because we were allowed back on campus, and they were looking for new guys. I got in as a founding member, and we got to make it how we wanted (not the bullshit associated with most organizations).

3 years later I'm a Senior in college, and what a lot of people say here is pretty much what you typically hear from everyone. There is a lot of stupid shit that goes on, people drink too much, etc...but it's like EVERY organization. Not ONE person here can tell me they have always worked for a PERFECT organization. We have fun, we do a ton of community service, I get to meet a LOT of new people (esp business connections), and it looks great on a resume.

Joe, some questions answered...
I don't know about Colorado (although one of those incidents was actually a member of my fraternity) but it's not a big deal as far as status here. We don't hold ourselves higher than anyone, and people don't think that we are trying to be held higher. It's not Revenge of the Nerds or Animal House. Most fraternities here required at LEAST a 3.0 GPA, so it eliminated SOME morons...but there will always be morons. I think some people see that there are a lot of morons in fraternities because they associate themselves with a set of Greek Letters...Kinda like the moron that drives past you in the hooked-up Honda Civic, but we don't associated him with anything. As far as the Letters, yes they do have meaning. Togas were worn in Rome and Greece...I guess someone put two and two.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 10-09-2004, 06:01 AM:

British universities don't have formally organised 'fraternities', but have a number of informal equivalents which bring all the problems that Joe, Bobby and others talk about. Most students usually live in 'halls of residence' - large houses containing 10 or so rooms to blocks with several hundred. Most student rooms are en suite (like less comfortable hotel rooms, basically) with a shared kitchen and living room between 5-10 of them. In years 2 and 3 (and, if applicable, 4) students usually rent private sector housing, and tend to stick in the groups formed 'in halls' during year 1. Some such groupings mark themeselves out as troublemakers from day 1, be it drinking themselves almost to death or whatever.

The other student social grouping which always spells trouble is the sports teams. At the institution I took my first degree, the rugby (a sort of hybrid between soccer and American Football, I'd guess) team was the worst. They had an initiation ritual which involved sitting in a circle, inserting a carrot where the sun doesn't shine, and passing it to the next one along. He was then required to eat the (inserted) end of it before repeating the procedure. After accidentally witnessing this spectacle in the bar I couldn't touch what had once been my favourite vegetable for weeks!

What's scary is that when I recently looked on the Friends Reunited site, I discovered that the guy who dreamt up the carrot ritual is now the deputy headmaster of a primary school!

I think what I'm trying to say is that like-minded students anywhere will always find ways of organising themselves into groups in order to behave stupidly (and in many ways the Christian Union was just as destructive as the 'rugger buggers', only in more subtle ways). With any luck, they'll grow out of it eventually.

Personally I just ran the film society for three years. Along with the people who did it with me I was happy to accept (mainly liquid) bribes from these people in exchange for programming the odd softcore porn flick, which of course for them represented the height of sophistication.

Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 10-11-2004, 02:21 AM:

quote: Joshua Waaland
I think that is stretching by trying to say that just because we don't agree with the greek organizations that we are somehow "badmouthing America".

It's a quote from "Animal House".
It's also where you learn specialized parliamentary coughing techniques.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 10-11-2004, 02:35 AM:

Fraternities and sororities are for the kids who lack self-confidence and a personal identity. They doubt their self-worth and, as a result of all these character deficiencies, they seek out the endorsement/approval of others and are willing to conform to a group identity, placing the needs/desires/code of the group above their own.

In short, they are victims willing-and-waiting to be victimized. At least, that's how they start out; by senior year they are experienced, trained bullies...and "Rush Week" brings the new crop of fresh meat for them to victimize.

Posted by Jason Miller (Member # 2341) on 10-11-2004, 11:48 PM:

I haven't been an activemember of Beta Theta Pi since I left from Colorado School of Mines. I haven't been in contact with my house much to know what the current status of the house is.. so my perspective may be skewed by the fact that I only know what I experienced.

It wasnt a matter of "renting" friends. I knew several guys that were in the house that didnt socialize as much as others. it wasnt any different than the dorms. no one was made to like anyone. if you were an asshole, you were kicked out. we didnt haze the pledges anymore than a senior would haze a freshman in the dorms or on campus. of course we treated them different. but the point of it was to be in good spirits. did you ever tell your little brother he had to do your chores for you? that is the kind of stuff we did.

as for the drinking part. oh yeah. there were underage drinkers. just like the dorms. there were older guys that could get beer for younger guys. just like the dorms. if you were an asshole when you started drinking, you were banned from the parties. not like the dorms.

a previous message talked about having people around inyour samemajor that you could ask for help. it was real convenient to know the major of everyone in the house so you could stop by their room and ask questions. most dorm people knew about the people on the same floor.. but didnt really expand out fromthere (this was probably because we were a bunch of nerds who spent countless hours playing online games and watching star trek.. Joe could verify my school was nerdville).

I joined because I didnt like my roomate from the day I met him. so I went for a walk around campus and started visiting the houses. I saw a Sig Ep getting car help from a Beta (they were wearing shirts with letters on them). I always thought that fraternities were rivals with each other, but these guys acted like friends. it was one of those "I'll be damned" moments. I toured the houses and saw that they had a lot more fun than the dorms did. they would have food fights.. they would invite sororities over for lunch/dinner. they had study sessions. they penalized you if you had bad grades by not letting you participate in events.

they also didnt "sell" me on anything. they didnt put on a show. they told me if I wanted to join to fill out a form, but that was it.

they also had a rich history behind them and I was big on history. they were one of the oldest founded (1839) and had houses all over the country (which came inhandy when i had car trouble in kansas and the chapter at KSU gave me dinner and let me stay the night).

I can call upon any alumni for a favor and the same can be asked of me. I have gotten job prospects from alums and have helped some of the underclassmen get part time jobs at theatres if they asked me.

I realize that there are countless more arguments against the fraternities because of the dickheads that stuff pledges in trunks and leave them in the woods.. or drinking deaths.. or rape cases (which are not exclusive to fraternities... take CU football team for example). but condemning every person that ever joined a fraternity seems just a bit discriminatory itself.

Posted by Dean Kollet (Member # 1789) on 10-12-2004, 12:27 AM:

thanks Jason, at least someone knows what I'm talking about...

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 10-12-2004, 03:53 AM:

Oh yeah, a former colleague is a USC EE grad and is a member of the engineering frat there. One very nice continuing perk for alums--free parking! On a first-come-first-served basis, but still very handy during football season--it's only about a 10 minute walk from the frat house over to the LA Coliseum.

I've never pledged myself--was always an older, working, part-time student and as such felt a little out of place. But I think the benefits outweigh any disadvantages. Maybe I'll try it when I do my grad program at UCLA. Someday...

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 10-12-2004, 06:07 PM:

Just filled out a form, eh?

Of course, I would never expect anybody to admit that they wore another guys used underwear for a week just to get into a fraternity. I totally expect to hear about how decent and above-board everything was.

I recall a group of kids who got their asses whacked with those ridiculous paddles to the point where their asses bled. The younger brother of a college buddy was one of those kids.

And the case where the frat boys sprayed the back trunk of a car with bug spray and caused the death of some pledges who had to spend some stupid amount of time locked in there. This made the news in Florida some years ago; it's an old story but it's typical shit that I get tired of hearing about.

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 10-12-2004, 08:32 PM:

quote: Manny Knowles
...I would never expect anybody to admit that they wore another guys used underwear...

So Manny... what's yur point? I think that is really HOT!

quote: Manny Knowles
...frat boys sprayed the back trunk of a car with bug spray and caused the death of some pledges who had to spend some stupid amount of time locked in there.

Yeah? So? If they are STUPIT enuff to go there, more power to weeding out the gene pool!

(BTW: I would comment about the "whackings", BUT! I'm NOT into spanking videos!)

Yours in Christ...

>>> Phil

Posted by Rachel Gilardi (Member # 1016) on 10-12-2004, 08:55 PM:

quote:
Like it or not, we are all Film-Tech brothers!!

If you say so... [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Dean Kollet (Member # 1789) on 10-12-2004, 09:00 PM:

stupid shit happens all the time, no matter what kinda of person or what "club" they are in. I'm not going to point out stupid shit that goes on with people who aren't in a fraternity. I like how almost every person hasn't actually had any experience with a fraternity, yet they seem to know what they are about.

Posted by Daniel Alt (Member # 2303) on 10-12-2004, 09:40 PM:

Wow. I'm sort of surprised at the amount of negative comments on this thread, but I suppose I shouldn't be. Negative perceptions of fraternities have been on the rise since "Animal House."

Are there fraternities that do stupid shit? Yes. Lot's of them.

Does that mean that the fundamental concept of a fraternity is flawed? In my opinion, no.

Have you ever gotten a place with a friend or two? Shared the utility costs, hung out together, helped out around the house? There's one parallel, if you like.

The point of joining a fraternity is not to buy friends. It is to meet a group of people you seem to fit well with, and join with them in their community. (I know, that sounds very granola, but it's true) I liked being in a fraternity because I knew I was surrounded by people I liked, and who liked me. I could leave my room at 3 AM and find someone to hang out with. Or 2 PM.

I got to live in a MUCH nicer house than anything the university had to offer. It is easier to organize philanthropic events, sports teams, and late night Denny's runs when you are in a fraternity.

Steps are always underway to try to improve the negative aspects. The national organizations have been cracking down harder and harder on hazing and alcohol offenders. Many fraternities have moved to totally dry housing. (Including mine)

I'm not saying a fraternity is right for everyone, but it shouldn't be discounted out of hand for those who appriciate it. The friends I made in Theta Chi are still many of my closest, and I had a much more positive college experience because of it.

Posted by Jason Miller (Member # 2341) on 10-13-2004, 06:52 PM:

as with most orginizations, everyone always tends to hilite the negative over the positive. My fraternity donated a lot of time into charity organizations (battered women house, haunted houses, etc...). but THAT stuff never makes the paper. A fraternity guycould save someone from a burning building.. but only if he gets his stomach pumped does the fact he is in a fraternity make the paper. Manny isnt lying when he says fraternity guys do stupid shit. but so do REGULAR college guys. but hey... everyone needs someone to blame when shit goes wrong. parents blame video games when their kids shoot each other. projectionists blame the equipment when id was probably their own threading. society blames fraternities when some college kid drinks too much. NO one pours drinks down your throat. maybe there is peer pressure to do it... but you arent held down.

but then... it is ALWAYS someone elses fault.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 10-13-2004, 07:20 PM:

I agree that no one pours beer (or whatever) down your throat. That's why I said that I don't feel sorry for the morons who drank themselves to death. Good riddance to them. The world is a better place without people who would even do such a thing. That's what makes me question the intelligence of people who would follow through with such things JUST to be in a fraternity. If I have to demoralize myself or do tremendously idiotic things just to be in a club, then I certainly wouldn't want to be in that club!

Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 10-13-2004, 07:24 PM:

We do not have an "engineering frat" for the ASU-East MET program.

Students are encouraged to join the Local Student Chapter of the Society of Manufacturing Engineers (S.M.E.) for a whopping $20.00/yr.

Those FT members involved with the manufacturing industry might be aware that SME is probably the largest and most influential international trade organization for Manufacturing and Mechanical Engineers.

SME membership has many benefits; including keeping abrest of current industry situations, business contacts, student scholorship programs, library/research resources, etc, etc.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 10-13-2004, 07:26 PM:

If I were to run a fraternity (God forbid), the only kind of hazing I would consider doing would be a sort of trick. The pledge might be told to do something disgusting or humiliating. Those who have the guts to say, "screw that, go f**k yourself" automatically get into the club.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 10-13-2004, 08:08 PM:

Most all of the Mechanical Engineers at the University of Maryland seemed to join ASME (American Society of Mechanical Engineers...kinda like the IEEE but for Mechanical).

The other popular orginization for MEs was the SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers).

However, I would classify none of the above as a Frat or even a "greek". Now Tau Beta Pi and Eta Kappa Nu (don't know what the ME Honor society was since it wasn't in my area) do have a social aspect to them in addition to just being a member.

Steve

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 10-13-2004, 09:33 PM:

So what does "Greek" have to do with anything? What difference in the world does THAT make? Why not Spanish? Why not Japanese? Better yet why not "American"?

Posted by Jason Miller (Member # 2341) on 10-13-2004, 10:30 PM:

a lot of the point of doing the pledge events was just to show that you really desired to part of the house. Guys do things to impress girls that they may not normally do... go skiing, sing karaoke, learn to tango, eat a bug (ok.. some are weirder than others).

once again.. Im not defending EVERY fraternity. I KNOW there are idiots out there. I'm simply saying that stereotyping ALL fraternities are death traps and brothers are drunk raping imbeciles isnt exactly fair. there are exceptions everywhere. I dont think all gay people act like the guy on will and grace. I dont think all black people are gang members. I dont think all christians are T.V. evangelists. but you notice they get the most airtime. people only seem to pay attention to a fraction of a group and base decisions and opinions on it.

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 10-14-2004, 01:05 AM:

"Greek" is just a shorthand for the academic fraternity "system" such as it is. The custom of naming them with Greek letters probably stems from the days when one of the marks of a learned man was mastery of areas of knowledge that required knowing the Greek alphabet, as well as the ability to use the Latin language. Classical learning, as opposed to today's more pragmatic vocational-prep college experience.

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 10-14-2004, 02:53 AM:

Could it also somehow come from the Freemasons? I am just guessing. As far as I know, secret or exclusive societies of all sorts really came into full swing in the late 18th and early 19th centuries when societies like the Freemasons and student fraternities were places were people could freely discuss modern ideas such as democracy. I know that in Germany in the 19th century, the fraternities were a safe haven for liberals and democrats when they were persecuted by the monarchists after the restoration of monarchies everywhere following the congress in Vienna (1815). But later the fraternities degenerated to traditionalist drinking clubs and a system to streamline and integrate young men into established circles. They used to do a lot of dangerous stuff like fighting completely unprotected with swords and cutting each other in the cheek to create a scar as sign of their fraternity membership. That has become very rare, although I hear some idiots still do that.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 10-14-2004, 03:05 AM:

Wandering off topic (sorry) and on the subject of freemasons, there was one incident which was probably the highlight of my undergrad degree. The local freemasons had hired a posh hall (normally used for degree ceremonies and so on) for their big annual dinner. It's widely known that freemasonry is endemic in the police force here (in order to rise through the ranks you have to join, basically). So, while this big formal dinner was in full flow, a person or persons unknown dialled 999, pretended to be the IRA and said that they'd planted a bomb in the place.

For the next hour we were treated to the spectacle of 200 senior police officers, all in their silly freemasons' costumes, standing outside the college in the sheeting rain while the bomb squad searched the place! [Razz]

The call was eventually traced to a 'phone box on a housing estate just next to the campus, but they never did find the perpetrator(s).

Posted by Daniel Alt (Member # 2303) on 10-14-2004, 10:01 AM:

Our pilot friend nailed it: the origin of Greek letters was from a time when one mark of an education was that one had a basic command of written greek. In most cases they stand for something, sometimes secret, sometimes not. ("Theta Chi" are the first two letters of "Helping Hand" in Greek)

On the subject of hazing; Joe, I couldn't agree more. My chapter of my fraternity does not haze. I wouldn't have joined if they did, and I certainly wouldn't have allowed it while I was a member. I think the modern system as a whole is moving away from the perception, and it will just a take a bit longer for the perception to change.

Posted by Dean Kollet (Member # 1789) on 10-14-2004, 11:45 AM:

Ours does not haze either, in fact here at FSU it's quite a big deal. It goes on, everyone knows, but if you just as get caught...bye bye to your fraternity. The campus police are in on it too, whenever we have events involving pledges, we frequently have them checking up on things.