This is topic I HATE getting stiffed!! (Tips that is!) in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Richard Greco (Member # 2032) on 11-12-2004, 11:36 PM:
 
As most of you know, I am no longer in the projection business. I have since started working at a national pizza chain (Hint: Chicken Kickers) as a driver. Anyways. I've gotten stiffed before on a tip on a delivery run, and that really sucks. Tonight, I had an order that was $34.73. The customer gives me 34.00 in green and 1.00 in change leaving me a .27 cent tip! I consider anything under a dollar a stiff.

So I count the change and give .25 cents back to the customer and said along the lines of " This change isn't worth a tip" or something like that. I gave them their pizzas and left.

I realize that it isn't the best customer service to say things about tipping to customers and I realize that they aren't required to give me a tip, but it SUCKS when you drive to the farthest you can go from your store and get NOTHING for your trip over there.

So, when you guys order pizza, do you normally tip? If so, how much? I honestly think that if you can't afford to give at least a dollar tip, then you shold
1) not order to begin with, Use your money at the grocery store and get something better for fifteen dollars.
2) Use your own gas to come pick your pizza up

It just angers me that people think that I get paid enough to do deliveries. I get .75 a run. That isn't enough gas to go to a run and back. Most of the time though, my tips average 2.50-3.00. Sometimes I get those REALLY generous people that give 5-10 dollars. It just depends.
 

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Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 11-12-2004, 11:48 PM:
 
The only time I order pizza is when I am working and I usually send someone else down to pick it up and I dont tip. This way if the driver has the nerve to ask, whoever went downstairs can say "it isnt my order, he jsut sent me to get it."

The way I see it, you should take it up with your employer for not paying you enough money to cover the run/gas. Tips are a courtesy that I will give if the service warrants it. Jsut becasue you did your job and drove the pizza to me does not mean that you deserve a tip. Everyone complains about not making enough money because of small tips, well, get a job that you wont be expecting one.

No offense meant here Richie, but you agree to work the job, if you arent making enough, find a job that pays better and pays steadily.
 

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Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 11-12-2004, 11:52 PM:
 
Of course there are people who simply do not believe in tipping. Nothing you can do about that. I do tip--15-20% is my 'Vegas standard. Don't remember what I used to tip pizza drivers. It's been a long time since I could afford to eat out or order delivery pizza.

Yours is a complaint we hear often here in Sin City. Most people who work here live on tip income, so tipping is often a subject of conversation. A lot of jobs here pay really low wages since the expectation is that the tips will make up for it. For instance, my brother is a craps dealer at the MGM and has been since day one (10 years!). His base pay is minimum wage, the real income comes from tips. The average is about $200 a day for a dealer at a major casino here.

Under tipping here is not a good idea, especially if you frequent the same places. It guarantees indifferent service, plus "extra ingredients" in your restaurant meals.
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 11-12-2004, 11:53 PM:
 
That certainly is not cool! I usually tip 15%. But if the guy is cute I'll do 25% and up to 50% if he'll leave me his phone number!

>>> Phil
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 11-13-2004, 12:00 AM:
 
I tip on everything that it is good to tip on. You don't want people spitting in your food. When you order your pizza, they will remember your name for the next time, trust me. And I am not a cheap bastard. It's how those people make their money. They are providing a service for you, not the pizza company. If employers paid more, well then there probably wouldn't be ANYONE to bring you your pizza since the employer either wouldn't pay such a high amount or simply couldn't afford it. I don't order pizza that much, but when I do I usually tip $3 to $4 for a large. They got used to that and now when I order a pizza, I get it before anyone else on the list (they usually deliver to 2 or 3 addresses per run). I know a guy who has worked at Pizza Hut for over 10 years and he supports a wife who works 1 day a week and 2 kids on that.
 

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Posted by James Faber (Member # 2796) on 11-13-2004, 12:04 AM:
 
I tip with whatever can be rounded off. Say a pizza is $11 or so, I will give the guy $15 dollars, and just leave it at that. It just makes the transaction faster, because the guy wants to get back to deliver his other pizzas, and I want to eat the pizza as soon as I can.
 

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Posted by Christian Volpi (Member # 2370) on 11-13-2004, 12:05 AM:
 
Just watch the opening scene to Reservoir Dogs.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 11-13-2004, 12:20 AM:
 
If I have a pizza delivered to my house or workplace, I will tip at least 15%. As Joe noted, you don't want people spitting (or worse) into your food.

I would be surprised if any pizza place anywhere paid their drivers anymore than minimum wage, or the mentioned 75 cents per trip. That doesn't cover the cost of gasoline, not to mention the wear and tear on the vehicle. Most pizza delivery guys have to use their own vehicle and pay for the large insurance policy out of pocket. A friend of mine works in management for the Dominos Pizza places in this area. Their drivers have to carry at least a $100,000 liability policy (along with full coverage) on their vehicles.

With all of that noted, if I get my pizza delivered in good condition I will tip. That's the least I can do. There are times I have visited restaurants and chose not to tip, but only because I got really terrible service. On a couple occaisions I got my meal for free. One example, my friends and I were having breakfast at a Denny's in Mesquite, TX. My glass of ice water had a cockroach leg frozen in one of the cubes. I politely showed it to the manager and he comped our whole table.
 

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Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 11-13-2004, 12:40 AM:
 
I have a question about how pizza places operate....Do the people that stay in the back and make the pizzas get paid more per hour than the delivery drivers? Or does everyone alternate shifts between delivering and working in the back?

I'm not saying that I don't believe in tipping, but I dont believe in tipping for someone that just did the bare minimum. I'm not running a charity and I am not going to compensate for a cheap pizza shop manager. I jsut dont think it should be expected. Just for the record, I have NEVER had a pizza arrive less than an hour after ordering. Maybe if it arrived in less than half an hour I would tip.
 

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Posted by John Hegel (Member # 628) on 11-13-2004, 02:17 AM:
 
When I was working at the "Pizza Ranch" the drivers were paid around $6.75 and the kitchen staff and front of the house staff was around $6.00. Every time an order was assigned to a driver it was an automatic $1 and if the order was outside of a 2 mile range it was $3.

The front of the house and the kitchen staff split the table tips at the end of the night.

Being a driver is very hard on your car. I had the most problems with my suspension, starter, and tires.
 

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Posted by Paul Trimboli (Member # 1509) on 11-13-2004, 05:57 AM:
 
Lucky your don't work in Australia then Richard, there is no such thing as a tip really over here, just not part of society over here. I have seen a tip jar in resteruants a few times over here actually but never seen more then a few cents in it. But on the other side you would get paid pretty well as a pizza guy over here, minimum wage for someone that is say 18 is not less then $10 AU and I have a feeling a friend who did that got paid $12 an hour.
 

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Posted by Jason Black (Member # 684) on 11-13-2004, 10:44 AM:
 
The reality is, you accepted a job that results in tips as part of your expected wages. I generally tip at least a dollar and whatever the coinage would be for a pizza. I simply do not believe in the 15-20% 'standard' for delivery service. I also have stopped eating at Sonic becuase they have closed their drive-thru window so that someone actually brings your food out to you in the drive thru line. In my opinion, this obligates one to tip the person bringing the food, as you woudl do if you pulled up to the parking spot and ordered. Not cool. Allow me to choose, dont' force it upon me. I will, and have, taken my business elsewhere based on this fact. Actually, Sam's is right behind Sonic. I now hit Sam's and get a huge hot dog with chili and a 44oz drink for $2.32! I didn't need those fries or tots to begin with...

When in any sit down eatery, I follow this rule... the server doesn't have complete control over the quality of my food nor the speed in which it comes out but they do have total control over my drink and if my glass goes empty the tip quickly diminishes. If a server is really good I'm not against a 25%+ tip but it's not assumed that I'm going to leave a tip. The server earns the tip.
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 11-13-2004, 10:48 AM:
 
I am a cheap bastard, but I will always tip 15% in restaurants if the services is minimally competent, and up to 20% if the service is particularly good. (I don't order pizza.) I don't eat in restaurants particularly often, and I realize that most of the people who work in them are dependent upon tip income.

One practice which I have seen a couple of times in restaurants that really irks me involves waiters returning with change, but not returning the full amount. For example, if the bill is $18.75, and the customer gives the waiter a $20 bill, he might return with $1, rather than $1.25. Very tacky, and, with me at least, would result in a lower tip. Having said that, I can sort of understand why pizza drivers might have to do this, as they don't have a cash register full of change at their disposal and might not have the correct change for each order.
 

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Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 11-13-2004, 11:36 AM:
 
At a restaurant I go with about 15% rounded up to whatever is convenient. A friend always said she thought it was supposed to be 15% of the pre-tax amount but I always used the higher figure. (I don't do pizza at all; they tend to be filled with that evil rotted milk product.)

Years ago I once left a nickel tip when the waitress got into a loud argument with another right near the table. Didn't want her to think I'd simply forgotten.
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 11-13-2004, 12:11 PM:
 
I am known as a good tipper. In a small town, it makes all the difference.

What really frosts me is when the delivery or waitperson acts like they are ENTITLED to a tip. They should give the impression that the tip is a nice surprise, because cheap employers notwithstanding, nobody is ENTITLED to a tip. It's the customer's call. Anyplace that has a jar on the counter saying "TIPS" is guaranteed to get a zero tip from me.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 11-13-2004, 12:28 PM:
 
Usually when I am forced into "stiffing" a waitor it is a clear case of negligence on their part. And when I have to do that, I usually stop bringing my business to that place.

For instance, we have a little restaurant in downtown Lawton called Burgess Grill. I sat down for lunch in this place just a couple minutes after noon. I ordered some big stir fry kind of dish. The pretty waitresses there had kind of a cold "my shit don't stink" attitude. Not the kind of enthusiasm the staff is trained to have at Chili's or Outback Steakhouse. Anyway, more than a half hour had passed and I still hadn't received my order. My friends were already a good way through their meals. I started asking questions. Those ladies acted more like I was being a selfish prick for asking about my food. When I finally got my order at 12:50pm I told the waitress, "I'm not eating that, and I'm not going to pay for it either. You eat it. And forget about your tip. I've sat here damned near an hour being neglected and it's the last time I'll eat in this restaurant. You have lost my business."

I guess that pretty much sums up the kind of waitor/waitress I can't stand. Someone thinks that because they're good looking and have people kissing their ass all the time gives them the license to neglect customers and/or treat them like shit. I have no qualms about telling some great looking lady to stick it up her ass if I feel she is treating me unfairly. What do I have to lose? It's not like she's going to take me in the back and suck my dick! (Resevoir Dogs reference).
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 11-13-2004, 06:19 PM:
 
One time when I was opening a new projection booth in Longmont Colorado, I went to get some food at the mall food court. I got my fod and paid for it, and received change back. Then the 2 girls behind the counter picked up the "tips" jar which had some cash in it and and held it out in front of me and gleefully said "tips??"

I took it and said "thank you".
 

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Posted by David Favel (Member # 1125) on 11-13-2004, 06:57 PM:
 
friday night, got graet service, so just rounded up from $75.00 to $80.00

Don't believe in tipping as a right, but agree, watch "Reservoir Dogs"
 

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Posted by Andy Muirhead (Member # 712) on 11-13-2004, 07:03 PM:
 
After leaving the cinema business in June this year, I moved to Ireland and worked for a spell as a hotel receptionist/bartender.

I never got used to people giving me tips. It made me feel very uncomfortable, like the way you get when you offer somebody a lift home, and they try to give you something for fuel, and your like "hey I was going that way anyway so it doesn't matter". People told me they tipped me for good service and for looking after them. I did the same for 10 years in the cinema business and nobody ever tipped me. Quite right too.

The best tippers were americans, over to see their spiritual home! They would buy a diet coke at 2euro and tip a 1 euro!!
 

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Posted by Nate Lehrke (Member # 1460) on 11-13-2004, 07:40 PM:
 
I usually order once a week. The bill is 19 bucks, I give em 25. I think thats fair.
 

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Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 11-13-2004, 09:44 PM:
 
Agreed with what many have said. Don't fall into the catch where you expect a tip. If you're in a situation where tips are your only income, then I would go elsewhere. There's plenty of driving jobs that pay per mile or by the hour.

In my estimation, it's really only recently that tips -- and the people who have a chip on their shoulder to get them -- have gotten a little out of hand. Seems like I recall a tip being an extra, a thanks for an especially good job; not just "for" a job or going through the motions. That's short of extortion.

But I am the customer, and if I'm going to leave a tip in restaurants, then by gosh, my waitress is gonna work for it! Here's what I do: I "base" my tip on 10-20%. When I walk in the door, no matter who my waiter or waitress is, I start them at 100% (i.e., full tip amount - can't get any better, unless, like Phil, I get a phone number). Then, as my dining experience progresses, mistakes made by the server count against them. For example, if they keep me waiting too long for something, I take 20 or 30% off. If they let my soft drink bottom out, I take away some more. If they're rude or insulting, that can cut it by 50 or 75% right off the bat. And, if they're bad enough to zero it out, that's usually a situation where I have to speak with a manager.
 

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Posted by Richard Greco (Member # 2032) on 11-14-2004, 12:01 AM:
 
Nate, You are my ideal customer.

Just got back from work. 5pm-12am made 60 bucks in tips. Not too bad for a Saturday night.

I don't expect tips, but there are times when I try REALLY hard to get there quickly and have gotten stiffed anyway. For example, an order told for 45 minutes, I'd try to get it there in 30.

Honestly though, and please don't take this the wrong way, but the 2 MAJOR demographics that lack giving tips are black and mexican groups that don't speak much english. (I work in a town where farming is HUGE) There are exceptions to that, but I just don't see as many people in my demo stiffing as the other two.

I do also notice that there are certian areas where it will happen. If I deliver to the ghetto, let's say, I won't get as good a tip as delivering to the rich side of town. But again, there are exceptions to that too. That is generally what I see though.

My main response to a non-tipper is "Have a good night" and I walk away. I usually scowl after I drive away. Saying, "Have a Good Night" keeps them happy still and my ass out of trouble if they decide to call the store.
 

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Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 11-14-2004, 12:25 AM:
 

quote: Richard Greco

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I don't expect tips, but there are times when I try REALLY hard to get there quickly and have gotten stiffed anyway.

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Richard, saying you get "stiffed"... sounds like you are expecting tips.

Incidentally, in the 80s, I took a part-time job at a pizza house to get food service experience that I wanted to use at my drive-in. The job included delivery. The best regular tipper I had was a black guy in a depressed area. He always gave me at least $5, and this was in the 80s!

Btw, if you want to make better money driving... drive a truck. Dominoes has a $2,000 sign-on bonus right now. You'll have to go out and get yourself a year or two of OTR experience first, but, hey, nothing comes easy.
 

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Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 11-14-2004, 03:40 AM:
 
I usually try to tip good if the service warrants it. I can't stand tip jars at fast food type restaraunts, like the Japanese place in the mall I work at. I person takes your order, the other cooks it, then you're on your own. They don't even have a 'dinning room' to clean/maintain, its the food court. But yet they have a 'tip jar' sitting out there. WHAT THE HELL?! That takes balls if you ask me.
 

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Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 11-14-2004, 03:48 AM:
 
During mister Reagan's presidency, taxes were imposed on tips (this occured when I was in high school). From what I now understand, becuase reporting tips was under an "honor system" (see Mr. Winters in IAMMMMW) ,Uncle Sam now collects an automatic precentage regardless of what you actually take in.
 

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Posted by Christopher Duvall (Member # 284) on 11-14-2004, 03:53 AM:
 
Why give a tip when you can give the whole thing.
 

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Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 11-14-2004, 10:09 AM:
 

 

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Posted by William Leland III (Member # 1400) on 11-14-2004, 03:09 PM:
 
if the bill is $10, i tip $2. i tip atleast $2 always, if good service $3. i used to work at apple bee's and understand the tip code. i have never tipped the 15%, when i get a beer at a bar and it cost say $3.75, i give the bar tender $5. when i get my second beer i give the coins left over. tipping is over rated.
 

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Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 11-15-2004, 08:17 AM:
 
Tips have gotten completely out of control, so I now rarely tip people for doing their basic job. If a delivery person or waiter wants a tip, they better be doing an above average job. In the case of pizza delivery, it must be under 30 minutes, hot, and correct, for me to tip. The service and food must be incredible for me to tip more than 10%.

If everyone stops tipping, then this insanity will end.
 

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Posted by Chris Medley (Member # 2145) on 11-15-2004, 08:44 AM:
 
The chain your work for pays you mileage..and I don't want to hear you bitch and moan! I worked for that same chain and my store had the largest area in the chain. Drivers that complained and said things like that to customers always got crappy tips because they gave off a pissy vibe because they thought they were going to get stiffed every time. I made out ok, and yeah sometimes I got stiffed, but you just take it in stride. I always had crappy nights, but then I had nights where I would make $150 in tips. I always tip according to the quality of service...ie if you suck at customer service you get a shitty tip.
 

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Posted by Jeremy Fuentes (Member # 2135) on 11-15-2004, 08:44 AM:
 
I always leave my tips written on the napkin...

Dont smoke in bed..

Never stare directly at the sun..

Objects in mirror are closer than they appear.
 

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Posted by Dave Williams (Member # 299) on 11-15-2004, 10:11 AM:
 
I am a waitresses best customer.

First of all, I don't leave much of a mess. I feel that I am a guest in thier place and I feel that guests should show respect. so I don't leave crap all over the table and floor.

Second, I am polite and cordial to the waitress and staff at all moments, regardless of thier own behavior. I can always empathize that perhaps they are having a bad day beyond thier control, the last thing they need is me coming in with my attitude to bring her down just a little bit more. My attitude usually improves the service quite a bit, always making them feel as if I appriciate them long before the tip ever arrives.

I make them feel as if I am thier friend right up front, and througout, just to make them more comfortable and willing to bend to my every request.

Now lastly, I will not tip a percentage most of the time, I tip both my heart and my ego. If my heart just was not in it, meaning the waitress did little to make my visit a pleasant one, or the food was so horrendous and she did nothing to fix the problem, etc., then the tip will be very very low. On a 30 dollar tab, I might leave a buck or two. just to be pissy about it.

On the other hand, if everything was to my satisfaction, or even better, much better, then the tip on a 30 dollar tab could be as high as 10 or 15 dollars.

On one instance, the service was so great from the beginning, but the food was not right. I sent it back, and this time the chef came out to personally deliver the food. He apologized for the first foray and hoped that is was to my satisfaction this time. Well it was, and he even came back out later to check. I had been to this place many times before and I had not seen such service, well I never had bad food before. But all was well, we had a party of four, the tab was about 90 bucks, I tipped 35. I go back routinely and am greeted by name, and given a good table where I like, and always moved ahead of others waiting for a table as soon as I walk in, as If I had a reservation. I love that.

On the other hand, another place I went to, it took two hours for our party to get all of our food, and our drinks went completely unfilled most of the time. I did voice my displeasure to my host, and to the manager, who seemed indifferent to my cause. Not only did I stiff them 50 percent of the tab, there was no tip either. I did it from ego alone. It was hurt, and they did it. I wanted them to know that they really sucked my night away.

As for pizza, i never order it. I make it myself from scratch. Those delivery places suck horribly and just cant get it right.

ciao baby

Dave
 

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Posted by Rachel Gilardi (Member # 1016) on 11-15-2004, 10:11 AM:
 
I think if you order delivery, unless the service is bad you should tip. I think that everyone here knows that they work for tips, it is how they get paid. If you're too lazy to get off your ass and go get it yourself give the driver a buck.

Same thing with waiters/waitresses, paper delivery kids, strippers! You get the point..these are all jobs where people work for tips and the general public knows it. If they do a bad job, I agree 100% that they do not deserve a tip but if they do a good job, or just what they are supposed to do and least give them a little something.

You can always go pick up your own pizza, cook your own dinner, pick up your own newspaper, or strip for yourself in the mirror!
 

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Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 11-15-2004, 10:33 AM:
 
I HATE getting stiffed!!

That says you have the wrong attitude.

Tips are (T)o (I)nsure (P)rompt (S)ervice. They are a GIFT from your employer's customers to you for doing something extra or special for them. The opertive word is GIFT, not obligation, nor is it payment for doing your basic job. Yes, I know a lot of people work for tips, but let me give you a TIP, the ones that are successfull consistantly go the extra mile, not just their job. This is a decision you make if you decide to work for tips, and with this, the knowledge that some people don't tip. That too, is part of the package.

/Mitchell
 

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Posted by Rachel Gilardi (Member # 1016) on 11-15-2004, 01:36 PM:
 
Found this searching around because I was bored..

tipthepizzaguy

Do they earn the tip?
Absolutely. Drivers perform a service by bringing dinner to your door. They take on financial costs and difficulties, more than most people realize. Pizza delivery is considered a hazardous job by the US government. They are third most likely to be
murdered on the job, right after police officer and taxi driver.

There is an interesting chart voicing the opinions of the webmaster on why delivery people should have a suggested average of 15% similar to waitstaff.

Compare
 

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Posted by Chris Medley (Member # 2145) on 11-15-2004, 01:51 PM:
 
Some of our drivers refuse to deliver to certain areas in my town after dark. I'll be the first to admit that I have been nervous even in broad daylight on deliveries. A few months back one of the drivers was jumped and beaten in an apartment parking lot. They took his bank $20, and six pizza.. he got a trip to the hospital and they were caught about ten minutes later by the chief of police no less.
 

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Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 11-15-2004, 02:18 PM:
 
Hi Rachel,

Here's the problem. When I call up a business that advertises that they will cook and deliver a pizza to my door for a set price, I expect it at that price. The person doing the delivery is an employee of that company doing his/her basic job. If that job does not pay enough to make it worthwhile, then they should not be doing it. The delivery man does not work for me, he works for the pizza store.

Ulitimatly, the answer is for pizza places to charge a fair seperate price for delivery, so that the delivery person gets paid a fair amount. That however, will not happen as long as people are foolish enough to work for customer handouts.

The fact that the job can be dangerous is not the issue, who the delivery person works for is.

How would you feel if before every start the show, the booth-ushers at your theatre come down to the auditorum and ask for tips as assurance that the show will be run correctly, since the theatre is only paying them slightly more than minimum wage? There is no difference.

/Mitchell
 

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Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 11-15-2004, 03:47 PM:
 

quote: Mitchell Dvoskin

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The person doing the delivery is an employee of that company doing his/her basic job. If that job does not pay enough to make it worthwhile, then they should not be doing it.

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And the only thing that would cause is pizza places not delivering because nobody wants to work for below minimum wage and not be tipped. That is the problem: Most places pay wait staff or delivery people LESS than minimum wage because they earn tips (which are also claimed on taxes, or should be) therefore, tips are technically part of the wage.

And what you're saying IS happening. Nobody wants to do delivery jobs so it's left up to the poor teenage kids who are willing to do what nobody else will.

IMHO, the delivery driver is doing me a huge favor, despite the "food being cooked and delivered at a set price." He or She is using THEIR gas and risking THEIR life to drive it over (pressured by the owners to do so as fast as possible). Yes, this is "the risk associated with the job so too bad" but for most, the tips justify the risk.

It's sad that certain people are not only so lazy as to be bothered by the burden to leave their house to feed themselves, but even more sad that they would be such a cheap skinflint to treat a menu as a written contract so they can justify weaseling out of paying a tip.

A friend of mine worked for a place that had a $2 delivery charge per order. Did he get all of that money? HELL NO! That money goes into the till. He was still paid his minimum wage, but never got tipped because of that charge. If everyone did that practice, again, no one would want to deliver food.

quote: Mitchell Dvoskin

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How would you feel if before every start the show, the booth-ushers at your theatre come down to the auditorum and ask for tips as assurance that the show will be run correctly, since the theatre is only paying them slightly more than minimum wage? There is no difference.

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quote: Thomas Procyk

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It's sad that certain people are not only so lazy as to be bothered by the burden to leave their house to feed themselves, but even more sad that they would be such a cheap skinflint to treat a menu as a written contract so they can justify weaseling out of paying a tip.

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quote:

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quote: Thomas Procyk
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It's sad that certain people are not only so lazy as to be bothered by the burden to leave their house to feed themselves, but even more sad that they would be such a cheap skinflint to treat a menu as a written contract so they can justify weaseling out of paying a tip.
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Well said.

Anyway most pizza places will allow you to come and get it yourself for that same "set price", and you don't have to tip. Some people are just cheap and that's pretty much it. Can't take your money with you to the grave!

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Both well said, if you guys didn't beat me to replying, that is along the lines of what my answer would have been. Luckily I didn't have to think too hard.

You know pizza delivery people work off tips, if you don't want to tip them, tip yourself - keep the money you would have used for the tip and go pick it up yourself.
 

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Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 11-15-2004, 05:03 PM:
 
If I'm ordering a large pizza or food for delivery, I tip $5.00. But if were eating out then I tip 20-25% at most places. But at my regular two pubs, my tipping is at 30%. With that I get many buy backs and food from the pub. Last week four of us went to brunch. The tab came to $42.00 for the food. The bartender gave us all our drinks for nothing. Each of us each had 4 drinks with our meal. Tipping does get you Great service here in NYC.
 

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Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 11-15-2004, 05:05 PM:
 

quote:

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Same thing with ... paper delivery kids, ...

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wait, so i'm supposed to get up at 6am to throw some change back?

most people know that at some level you're "supposed" to tip waiters. but there are many instances where it's not clear if a tip is warranted. are we supposed to know automatically how a company pays its employees? i don't make enough money that i can give it out freely, but i don't want to have my food "tainted" either.

my rule of thumb has been to tip when getting food if there's table service and payment is made at the table after the meal. this happens maybe once a month or two. i haven't ordered delivery for years, but i remember not really knowing if tipping was appropriate. i'd give a little, and have an awkward feeling of "i don't know if i'm being really generous or being an asshole. have a nice day."

the whole tipping system is just an aggravation to me.

oh, i also "tip" buskers when i can (and have time to stop and listen) because i know nobody's "paying" them. spangers get nada.

carl
 

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Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 11-15-2004, 06:06 PM:
 
It's sad that certain people are not only so lazy as to be bothered by the burden to leave their house to feed themselves

Lazyness has nothing to do with it, convienence does.

but even more sad that they would be such a cheap skinflint

This statement, in the context it has been used, appears to be a personal insult against me, not a general comment. As such, it is in violation of forum rules, oh moderators. Thomas could have disagreed with me without being nasty.

to treat a menu as a written contract

It is. Every state has consumer fraud laws for those businesses that charge more than their posted prices.

so they can justify weaseling out of paying a tip.

This implied that we are under some sort of oblication to, or agreed to, pay a tip. That is not just the case.
 

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Posted by Richard Greco (Member # 2032) on 11-15-2004, 07:36 PM:
 
Mitchell........Dude, I'd hate to deliver pizzas to you. I agree with everything that has been said here and agree. It is LAZINESS that is the main factor in not tipping for delivery. You would use the same amount of gas as I would and have to spend an extra 5-10 mins picking it up where I can get it to you in 30-45 mins.

If I don't feel like driving, I'll order a pizza delivered...but not if I can't give at least 2.00 for the courtesy of the driver actually getting there.

We had a driver recently get in a SEVERE wreck and currently about 2 months later, he still has some brain damage. To take that risk is great and I am offended that you don't care enough about the person taking it to you.

There is an apartment complex less than 1/4 mile from my store. I usually get about 3.00 everytime I deliver there.

I do think I am getting stiffed when I don't get a tip because, I am doing something EXTRA for you. Taking it to you so you don't have to pick it up. It is considered very rude if you don't thank your driver for getting your pizza there hot and ready to eat.

Basically, a non-tip is a slap in the face. I consider a tip a thank you. Just to say thanks for getting my food here in one piece. I am so flaming at you right now Mitchell.

Now, you are not obligated to tip, but do you really ant to make the driver mad for next time. I consider you to be very rude to your delivery drivers.

Yes the menu is a set price, but tipping is a COURTESY!!! Are you not a couteous person that you don't appreciate the service you are recieving?

GRRRR
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 11-15-2004, 07:37 PM:
 
I do not believe Thomas was directing that comment right at you. From the way I read it, he was referring to people who don't like to tip and using your logic behind it as an example. Now if he had said: "How can you be such a cheap skinflint?" then that would be different.
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 11-15-2004, 08:15 PM:
 
Semi-on-topic comment: I actually got a tip once for working as a projectionist. I ran a show for some kid's birthday party in a private corporate screening room for a Big Theatre Chain. After the show, the mother knocked on the booth door and, when I opened it, thanked me and handed me a $20 bill. I thanked her and accepted it. Should I have?
 

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Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 11-15-2004, 08:19 PM:
 
YES
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-15-2004, 08:37 PM:
 
Anyone who doesn't tip when pizza is delivered to your home, remember sooner or later the drivers WILL remember who you are. That's when things start to happen like you end up last on the delivery list, or "extra toppings" get added free of charge to your food. Sure people shouldn't do that, but trust me, they do.

The last time I've ever not left an average to high tip was about a year ago at an IHOP. The service was AMAZINGLY bad!
 

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Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 11-15-2004, 08:37 PM:
 
In some ways I agree with you Mitchell. As previously stated I find tip jars at Asian food/other 'non sit-down' restaraunts ridiculous. Another out of control tip situation occured at a local buffet style restaraunt. Their 'servers' refilled your drinks for you. For that service you were expected to tip. JFC! It was a buffet! Needless to say that place is no longer in business.

But when it comes to your traditional restaraunt setting-places like Applebees, TGI Friday's, etc, to not tip is just wrong. These people are making as little as $2.13/hour before tips (FLSA. To say that you won't tip for just 'doing their job' shows an ignorance of the wage system for waiters and waitresses. Obviously a tip should be scaled based on quality of service, that is the point. If service is especially bad I have no problem with leaving no tip. But not tipping just because your server didn't go 'above and beyond' the call of duty to personally please you is a tad extreme. While I personally always tip 15% or more I think a 10% tip for 'average' service is more than reasonable.
 

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Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 11-15-2004, 08:38 PM:
 
I do believe in always tipping the hair cutter girls. Sometimes over 100%
 

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Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 11-15-2004, 09:34 PM:
 
One thing that happens here in the Times Square area at those types of restaraunts (Applebee's, TGI Fridays, Olive Garden...). Is that they will include on your bill the tip (15%), and you can add more if you want too. But those restaraunts are among the worst service in the area of Times Square. The one place you are guaranteed to leave below 10% for a tip is the Howard Johnsons @ (46th & Broadway). The only thing worst than the service is the food.
 

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Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 11-15-2004, 09:52 PM:
 
there is a chinese buffet in Mesquite that all they do is show you to your seat and bring out your glass initially, you refill it yourself and you get your own food and they still ask for a tip. Yeah right.
 

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Posted by Richard Greco (Member # 2032) on 11-15-2004, 09:56 PM:
 
I'm not talking about sit-down joints though. I mainly am talking about driving and I do make a small bit more than minimum wage. BTW I make .75 a run. That is NOT enough for gas to and from a delivery
 

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Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 11-16-2004, 08:33 AM:
 
Hi Richard,

What I honestly don't understand is why you would work at a job that does not pay enough to survive on. Is the economy that bad down in Plant City Florida? If so, have you given any thought to what you want to do long term, and how you are going to get from here to there?

I infer (maybe incorrectly) from this thread that you perceive yourself almost as an independent businessman, offering a delivery service between the store and the customer's home. On the other hand, I perceive pizza delivery people as employee's of a store that advetised that they would deliver their product to my home at a set price with their employee. The fact that you are using your own car and gas should not be my issue, it is an issue between you and your employer.

My problem is not really with tipping, it is with some people who think they are entitled to a tip regardless of service. In fact, I generally do tip my pizza delivery person, because 99% of the time, they do an excellent job of getting the pizza to my home on time and hot. I just don't feel obligated too.

In your original post that started this thread, you indicated that you got no tip for a large order delivery. Well, I would have been annoyed too, but I don't think I would have felt "stiffed". It is just part of the job.

I'm not sure we will ever agree on this one, but it has helped me understand your point of view.

/Mitchell
 

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Posted by Richard Greco (Member # 2032) on 11-16-2004, 08:51 AM:
 
I am using this job while I go through school. After school, then I certainly won't have a pizza delivery job anymore, I'll b a programmer for a company...A lot mor money there!!!
 

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Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 11-16-2004, 09:02 AM:
 
I have worked as a programmer my entire adult life. Projection is just a side job at times. Programming definatly has it's own issues as a job, but they certainly pay you a whole lot better for putting up with the hassles.

/Mitchell
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-16-2004, 09:07 AM:
 
Then again, programming jobs are being "sent" to India quite a bit now...

Any job that does not require the physical presence of the person can easily suffer this sort of fate as the current laws and rules stand.
There is a "tip."

Steve
 

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Posted by Chris Medley (Member # 2145) on 11-16-2004, 10:22 AM:
 
I agree with Steve. The job I have know is in limbo and I currently just went out and picked up a part-time with a full-time option sales job just in case I become another figure on the unemployed lists.
 

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Posted by Rachel Gilardi (Member # 1016) on 11-16-2004, 10:55 AM:
 

quote:

---

I do believe in always tipping the hair cutter girls. Sometimes over 100%

---

Thank you Chris! Haha.

Also another job that depends on tips, trust me the pay is not good without the tips. You pay over (at least me) $12,500 to go to school for a year to do this job that pays crap. Why do people do it? Because they love it.

I've known a few people that loved their job as delivery people (some people love the freedom of the job, not everyone is cut out to work in a stuffy building all day) and waiters (very much people persons). Someone has to do it or you wouldn't get your services.
 

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Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 11-16-2004, 01:27 PM:
 
Well, the lady that cuts my hair is part owner of the shop and her husband plays in the NFL, so she doesnt exactly need the tip.
 

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Posted by Rachel Gilardi (Member # 1016) on 11-16-2004, 02:31 PM:
 
Well, I wasn't counting husbands salary!
 

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Posted by Mike Pennell (Member # 1692) on 11-16-2004, 04:18 PM:
 
Dominoes out here charges a delivery fee. What do you tip on top of that?
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 11-16-2004, 05:28 PM:
 

quote: Mitchell Dvoskin

---

On the other hand, I perceive pizza delivery people as employee's of a store that advetised that they would deliver their product to my home at a set price with their employee. The fact that you are using your own car and gas should not be my issue, it is an issue between you and your employer.

---

I believe that view is just 100% out of touch. If I only want to pay the menu price for a pizza, I'm going to drive over to the store and pick it up myself. That's the rule everybody knows.

I can't remember the last time I saw a pizza delivery person doing his job from a company owned car. And believe me, I've lived all over this country. Every pizza place in my town, from local outfits to national chains requires all of their pizza delivery people to use their own vehicles, pay for their own gas, upkeep on the vehicle and carry large, expensive insurance policies.

Also, there's another sentiment that kind of pisses me off a bit. And that's the whole "why don't you find a better paying job" line. Easier said than done for a lot of people. In spite of what people in the stock market may be doing, much of the nation is enduring quite a middle class squeeze. People on the lower end of the working class are getting f**ked in the ass even harder.

With all that's going on these days to add pressure on everyone's lives, I would make sure to give a pizza delivery guy at least a nominal tip to cover his expenses for bringing pizza to my door. I appreciate the service, but I also don't want to piss off the guy either. He knows where I live after all!

It cost him money out of his pocket to provide that delivery service. That cost is NOT covered at all by the price on the pizza store's menu. Just about everybody knows this fact. Some just choose to ignore it. But as Brad pointed out, people can ignore this truth to their peril and get a pizza with some extra boogers, loogies and maybe even jizz mixed in with the sausauge and cheese. Happy dining!
 

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Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 11-16-2004, 05:51 PM:
 
This discussion can be continued here.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 11-16-2004, 06:14 PM:
 
Ummm... what the hell does a year-old discussion about how crappy CIR splicers are (and the world knows this) have to do with tipping wait staff, people who cut hair and people who deliver food?
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 11-16-2004, 06:35 PM:
 

quote: Chris

---

I do believe in always tipping the hair cutter girls. Sometimes over 100%

---

Well Chris, judging by your ID pic and the one that Jen posted, I hope you're getting a massage to go along with the "waxing" your getting...



>>> Phil
 

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Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 11-16-2004, 09:49 PM:
 
my point was that noone is going to change anyone's mind here, just like noone is going to make Brad like CIR or Gordon switch over to neumade.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-16-2004, 10:09 PM:
 
That's because Gordon is nuts and I am right.
 

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Posted by Rich Granata (Member # 2285) on 11-17-2004, 09:23 AM:
 


Hey, I'm a little worried. Last week I got a Papa Johns delivery.
It was $11.something. I gave the guy $15. It was A Great Pizza.

Today I got a comp Pizza coupon in the mail from Mr. Papa John. "I believe that your last papa john's experience was not up to our standards. Enjoy a 2 topping large on us...yada,yada"

Thats some good customer service....but Im a little grossed out. Did the delivery guy violate my pizza or something?
 

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Posted by Rachel Gilardi (Member # 1016) on 11-17-2004, 10:18 AM:
 
Probably not. Someone being delivered on the same run probably called and complained that they screwed up something with their order, and they sent you the comp instead by mistake. Or, in their opinion they took too long to deliver you the pizza. I've had both happen and I did get comp coupons for them, but they were from Dominoes, not Papa Johns.
 

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Posted by Chris Medley (Member # 2145) on 11-17-2004, 11:25 AM:
 
The delivery charge that most places charge goes to the driver to cover mileage, but some runs don't come close to that. Our delivery charge went up from .75 to $1 before I left because of the spike in gas prices.
 

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Posted by Richard Greco (Member # 2032) on 11-17-2004, 03:33 PM:
 
We have a 1.25 delivery charge, but barely half that goes to me. Many people think that I get the whole delivery charge and that's why they shouldn't tip, but it isn't the case and with gas being around 2.00 a gallon here, it is tough.
 

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Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 11-17-2004, 04:23 PM:
 
At this theatre I worked at long time ago. We had asst. manager that had a deal with this pizza place nearby. He would trade a 5 gallon box of pepsi for a large special topping pizza.
Now that's a Tip.

The cost of a box of syrup was around $20.00 .

I had a slice of the pizza, one night.

[ 11-17-2004, 06:23 PM: Message edited by: Bill Gabel ]
 

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Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 11-17-2004, 05:59 PM:
 
A 5-gal box of syrup costs about $35
A Large Pizza usually costs about $18

I'm sure the theatre company was felling ripped off when they fired him.
 

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Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 11-17-2004, 06:05 PM:
 

quote: Richard Greco

---

It is LAZINESS that is the main factor in not tipping for delivery. You would use the same amount of gas as I would and have to spend an extra 5-10 mins picking it up where I can get it to you in 30-45 mins.

---

The logistics of it aren't the customer's problem. The pizza place offers delivery -- with no conditions. Mitchell's right, we have all been slowly brainwashed into accepting free tips as the societal norm (i.e., tipping for someone just showing up, or otherwise doing their job). I distinctly remember when this wasn't the case.

To those who would spit in a pizza being delivered to someone who didn't tip... you selfish, rat bastards... What if you got to the door, and suddenly, it wasn't the person you thought it was going to be? The guy moved or something and the new person gave you a big fat tip? Right. You wouldn't say a goddamned thing, would you? You'd walk away and leave that person with the tainted pizza just the same, so who cares if you get a tip!?
 

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Posted by Jeremy Fuentes (Member # 2135) on 11-17-2004, 06:42 PM:
 
I think Richard cares, but I could be wrong.
 

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Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 11-17-2004, 06:46 PM:
 
Talkin' about someone who'd spit in a pizza, Jeremy... are you're suggesting that he would?
 

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Posted by Jeremy Fuentes (Member # 2135) on 11-17-2004, 06:56 PM:
 
Richard probably wouldnt, but if he did, I'm sure we'd be the first to hear about it.
 

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Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 11-18-2004, 12:14 PM:
 
This came in over the Associated Press today.

Pizza Drivers Seek National Union

Nashville, Tenn. - A fledgling national union for pizza drivers is demanding better wages and training, saying the large chains have been taking advantage of them for years.

Its an effort that has atracted the attention of the Teamsters union, but the Association of Pizza Delivery Drivers, based in Hendersonville, has yet to organize its first shop.

A vote at a Domino's franchise in Lincoln, Neb., failed Tuesday night on a tie. But organizers expect a better result next week when Pizza Hut drivers vote at a store near Columbus, Ohio.

Tim Lockwood, treasurer of the pizza delivery union, said getting the first vote itself was a huge victory as the union started just a couple of years ago with a few drivers in a Internet chat room commiserating about unfair working conditions.
About 600 drivers nationwide have signed up for the free union, and he feels momentum gathering for more unionization votes.

Lockwood said pizza drivers make $5.50 to $6 an hour, plus tips, and are reimbursed 50 to 75 cents per delivery-no matter how far it is. Even worse, he said, pizza delivery is annually ranked among the most dangerous professions.
"A lighted pizza sign on a car in a bad area says, "Look at me --I've got food, I've got cash and I'm unarmed," he said

http://www.pizzadeliverydrivers.org/
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 11-18-2004, 03:22 PM:
 

quote: Tim Reed

---

The logistics of it aren't the customer's problem. The pizza place offers delivery -- with no conditions. Mitchell's right, we have all been slowly brainwashed into accepting free tips as the societal norm (i.e., tipping for someone just showing up, or otherwise doing their job). I distinctly remember when this wasn't the case.

---

This is to assume some kind of injustice is being done with people having to tip pizza delivery people and/or pay delivery charges.

It would only be an injustice if the pizza delivery guy used a company vehicle, with company paid gas, company paid insurance and company paid upkeep on said vehicle. Also, let's not forget, the pizza delivery guy has to at least be getting paid minimum wage as well. Not that arrangement where he makes $2 an hour based on the idea he's getting paid in tips.

Really, this whole discussion targeting pizza delivery guys is a little bit strange. If any of us want to bitch about people getting paid too much money, why not put the crosshairs on all those lawyers, insurance company executives, pharmaceutical industry guys, etc.? There's a bunch of guys in those fields getting paid thousands of dollars a day (with a lot of it being our tax dollars) for little more than yakking on a cellphone in between holes on the golf course.

[ 11-20-2004, 07:08 PM: Message edited by: Bobby Henderson ]
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 11-18-2004, 05:34 PM:
 
A friend of mine who has delivered pizza for more than 10 years at Pizza Hut does not put any delivery signs on his car for the very reason of being targeted (plus they just look lame). In fact, I rarely see signs on Pizza Hut cars anymore when they deliver to me. Go Pizza Hut! I don't know why pizza companies would want to have their name affixed to some old run-down beater that pizza delivery guys usually own.
 

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Posted by Rachel Gilardi (Member # 1016) on 11-18-2004, 11:56 PM:
 
Probably so the customer knows its the pizza guy pulling up and knocking at your door not some psycho...

But then again, theres nothing to say a pizza guy can't be psycho.
 

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Posted by Dave Williams (Member # 299) on 11-19-2004, 12:44 AM:
 
As far as tipping goes, I work for a large multinational multibillion dollar company (company policy prevents me from revealing who I work for, some stupid confidentiality and security thingy) that would EXPECT me to tip well, especially since I pay for my meals with thier product! Can't have one of thier own bieng a total cheap ass cheapskate now can they now!

However I tip well regardless of whom I work for, how much I make, or what multibillion dollar company card I carry.

In fact, I tip well when my finances are shot to hell.

So be a good person, treat all with dignity, and tip the hell out of your pocketbook!

Unless of course they suck the ass right out of your day, then forget it!

Ciao baby...

Dave
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 11-19-2004, 01:14 AM:
 
Well, Rachel, if they ordered the pizza, it might be in their best interest to actually expect it to arrive.
 

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Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 11-19-2004, 02:39 AM:
 

quote:

---

"Look at me --I've got food, I've got cash and I'm unarmed,"

---

quote:

---

They're sharp knives..., and carry a lifetime guarantee.

---

quote: Carl Martin

---

whose lifetime?

---

quote: Bobby Henderson

---

This is to assume some kind of injustice is being done with people having to tip pizza delivery people and/or pay delivery charges.

---

In the respect that tipping is now expected, and if you don't, you can expect to have your product laced, yes. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to call that a form of extortion.
 

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Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 11-19-2004, 12:24 PM:
 
What strange laws they have there in Iowa. We have no such rules here. Anyone except ex-felons can get a concealed weapons permit (CCW) here as long as one can qualify with it on a gun range. Being in a vehicle doesn't matter one bit (except in the city of Henderson (of course), which does proscribe accessible weapons in cars).

Alternatively you can wear a weapon as long as it's plainly visible (the old west lives on here). No permit needed for that, though you'll probably get hassled by the cops and hotel/casino security guards nowadays.

If I were driving pizzas in certain parts of this town I'd definitely be packing heat of some kind. Fortunately, not having a car anymore saves me from having to worry about that.
 

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Posted by Justin West (Member # 920) on 11-19-2004, 01:15 PM:
 
Based upon Jeremy's Film-Tech pic, I don't think I would want him to deliver a pizza to me, YIKES! But seriously, I understand the delivery drivers' issue and tip accordingly to courtesy and timeliness. One thing that gets my goat, however, is when I call-in a carry-out order (for ME to pick up) and, when I arrive and pick up the order and charge it to my credit card, they give me the receipt to sign and the total has not been completed...it is BLANK for me to fill in AFTER a TIP is either included or zeroed out. The NERVE of the people to write in everything but that and EXPECT me to tack a little extra on...just for the privilege of buying and picking up their food! Reminds me of the time a friend told me he was standing in line at the carry-out window of a restaurant, to pick up his call-in order, and he saw the guy in front of him take his food and place a dollar in the tip jar at the counter. The guy left and the teen-ager behind the counter looked at my friend and said "Cheap @sshole!" My friend then took his order and paid for it and replied, "You think that was cheap? Watch this!" and he left! Society needs to wake up to the reality of the economy and how the middle-class and real job opportunities are being hammered and eliminated...at the same time, manners, etiquette, and just a general respect for others seem to be lacking.
 

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Posted by Rachel Gilardi (Member # 1016) on 11-19-2004, 01:52 PM:
 

quote:

---

Based upon Jeremy's Film-Tech pic, I don't think I would want him to deliver a pizza to me, YIKES!

---

Richard would be sent to deliver your pizza, not Jeremy. Jeremy is stuck in some theater picking his nose, serving you popcorn.
 

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Posted by Jeremy Fuentes (Member # 2135) on 11-19-2004, 01:56 PM:
 
You know it!
 

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Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 11-19-2004, 03:00 PM:
 
For the record, I do pay food protection... er, umm.. TIPS!

quote: Justin West

---

the middle-class and real job opportunities are being hammered and eliminated...at the same time, manners, etiquette, and just a general respect for others seem to be lacking.

---

Preach, brother! Preach!
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 11-19-2004, 06:17 PM:
 
Me thinks Jeremy is "The Boogie-woogie Boogar Boy of Company 'B'"...
 

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Posted by Jeremy Fuentes (Member # 2135) on 11-20-2004, 02:52 PM:
 
Hey, thats what my tattoo says....wait, wrong thread...carry on!
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 11-20-2004, 07:07 PM:
 

quote: Tim Reed

---

In the respect that tipping is now expected, and if you don't, you can expect to have your product laced, yes. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to call that a form of extortion.

---

I don't think tipping a pizza delivery guy is extorsion at all. What seems totally unreasonable is the idea of expecting some guy to drive his car, use his gas and even risk his life just to deliver a pizza to someone without getting paid for it. Deliver pizzas for free? That's bullshit.

Anyone who insists on not tipping a pizza delivery person needs to drive to the store and get their own pizza. Simple as that. A customer should not use the delivery service if he's not willing to pay for it.
 

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Posted by Jason Black (Member # 684) on 11-20-2004, 09:47 PM:
 
You guys have all this bass ackwards..

The store owner has factored delivery into the set cost of the item being sold. The fact that anyone automatically EXPECTS to be tipped just for doing the job they took is assinine!

I'll post more later on when I have more time... I've held off commenting this long, it can wait until later tonight...

(now that I'm home)

quote: Bobby Henderson

---

Anyone who insists on not tipping a pizza delivery person needs to drive to the store and get their own pizza. Simple as that. A customer should not use the delivery service if he's not willing to pay for it.

---

I can't believe that you honestly are able to reason this out. Some of your other ideas/beliefs I go along with just fine.. but this idea... it's total shit..

Your analogy that a customer basically being wrong for not tipping, or being under the false assumption that it is REQUIRED... well, just plain backwards... I'm of no concern at all of the financial arrangements between the pizza shop and whomever brings it to my door. Advertising FREE DELIVERY is just that. The person bringing it should never EXPECT a tip and they should be appreciative when they get one.. as opposd to the idea that they are automatically DUE it...

If that drivers labor cost isn't factored in to the food being purchased... that's the owner's problem to deal with... They factor in those damn window servers and cashiers, don't they?

I tip on most every delivery, but that's because the drivers that come to my house speak to me.. even if it's a simple "hey how ya doin' tonight" prior to telling me my price... That's decent customer service, in my eyes... Those who don't speak first... they get a tip, but generally a buck on a pie (regardless of size).

I'm shaking my head at this one.

[ 11-21-2004, 12:15 AM: Message edited by: Jason Black ]
 

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Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 11-20-2004, 11:41 PM:
 

quote: Bobby Henderson

---

I don't think tipping a pizza delivery guy is extorsion at all.

---

quote: Bobby Henderson

---

What seems totally unreasonable is the idea of expecting some guy to drive his car, use his gas and even risk his life just to deliver a pizza to someone without getting paid for it. Deliver pizzas for free? That's bullshit.

---

• Those (like me) who feel they are not obligated to tip, because the delivery person is an employee of the store, doing their basic job. They are not using their car and gas to save me time and money. They are using their car and gas to deliver the store's product to me and collect the purchase price for the store. The fact that the delivery person may be underpaid is not my fault. This is not to say that people who feel this way do not tip, but we do not feel obligated to.

• Those that feel that tipping is an obligation. From reading this thread, these people break down into the following categories.
  
  • Those who tip because they fear getting an extra "surprise" on their next order. Let call this what it is, extortion. It is certainly not a tip.
  • Those who tip because they feel that a business's low paid employees should be compensated directly by the customer, because they are providing you a service rather than their employer.
  • Those who feel that they are expected to tip, because the delivery person is working for them, not the store.

Tipping has gotten completely out of control, and forsters an atmosphere where buisness owners can get away with paying people low saleries. This is also why solutions like unionizing pizza delivery people will ultimatly fail. As things stand now, there will always be someone else who would be willing to work for tips. If there were no tips to be had, then the store owners would have to pay their delivery staff adiquitly.
 

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Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 11-21-2004, 12:13 PM:
 
You're also not obligated to give out candy on Halloween. It's up to the kids' parents to provide them with candy despite some stupid holiday. If you choose not to, you *may* get your house egged or toiletpapered or silly-strung, but you may not.

Sometimes it's just fun to get with the spirit and go along with things instead of denouncing the practice. (I know, that sounds strange coming from me! )

This dispute reminds me of a clip from The Simpsons where Homer takes Lisa to a museum and there's a jar with a sign indicating a "Suggested Donation" -- Homer makes a LOUD point that because it's SUGGESTED, you're NOT REQUIRED to donate! Just then, Lisa's teacher walks by to drop money in the jar and Homer stops him and explains that it's SUGGESTED, SEE? YOU DON'T HAVE TO!

=TMP=
 

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Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 11-21-2004, 01:09 PM:
 
Mitchell's got it pegged pretty good.

quote: Thomas Procyk

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Sometimes it's just fun to get with the spirit and go along with things

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I'm sure deliverymen and chintzy restaurant owners the nation over would LOVE for us to jump on that bandwagon. If you really want to get in "the spirit" of showering your money on people... why don't you send some my way?
 

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Posted by Jeremy Fuentes (Member # 2135) on 11-21-2004, 01:32 PM:
 
Tim, tell you what, if you can prove that I make more money than you and you have a crappy paying job(pizza delivery, waiter), than I'll send you a few bucks. Thats why I tip. Those people are just like me, working hard, but for for very little money, and since I'm in no way hurting for money, I tip them. If I can afford to go out to eat(different subject) or order a pizza, then I can afford to tip and help that guy and possibly his family.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-21-2004, 03:31 PM:
 
What is the profit margin on restaurant and other food preparation stores? 5X or so? I do find it odd where the tip should be applied versus when it should not. If tipping were banned or employers were not given a substandard pay option for a tipped job...then the store, restaurant...etc would have to play their food deliverly people (both in store and home delivered) the going rate or loose employees and consequently, business.

Then again, I like the Doc Solamon's view on tipping (3rd Rock from the Sun)...you should place your "potential tip pile" on the table when you set down to eat...this is the potential money the server could make...as they go above and beyond, you add to it, as they take too long and disappoint, you subtract...the server knows exactly where they stand.

I think tipping at a buffet style setting is just plain stupid. Then again, I think theatres should be expected to clean their theatres without the customers throwing away their trash too...with the profit margins on popcorn and soda, that service has certainly been paid for.

Steve
 

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Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 11-21-2004, 03:51 PM:
 
Hey, get this... we just went to a pizza place, sat down, and NO ONE came to serve us. Therefore, Tim's tip meter zero'd out before we made enough noise for the waitress to stop at our table. In a restaurant with only 3 or 4 other customers, it took 20 minutes to lasso some service. Then, the little 16 or 17 yr. old girl handed us menus and asked if we needed some time to decide. My wife told her, "Yes, we just opened the menus." Several other infractions occurred that I won't go into, because I've got to get out on the big road and go to work.

Needless to say, we left NO TIP and, dammit, I'm glad and have NO GUILT about it! In fact, they should've paid US!

I dare anyone to chastise me.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 11-21-2004, 05:11 PM:
 

quote: Jason Black

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Advertising FREE DELIVERY is just that. The person bringing it should never EXPECT a tip and they should be appreciative when they get one.. as opposd to the idea that they are automatically DUE it...

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quote: Bobby Henderson

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And if everybody chose not to tip a pizza delivery guy, you would see that "free" delivery service quickly disappear. You would get charged automatically a set fee for delivery. On top of that, the prices of pizza would probably go up as well. Because what idiot is going to use their own vehicle to deliver any pizzas if there is no financial incentive to do so? All pizza places would have to start buying and maintaining company vehicles. That cost would get passed on to all the customers.

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quote: Bobby Henderson

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It cannot sit well that much of the programming and IT industry is getting shipped off to India. But then I could cop the same attitude and say, "it's not my problem. I want cheap or free software."

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quote: Joe Redifer

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If they got the same fee each and every time, then there would be no need to provide outstanding service above the call of what is required by them.

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quote: Carl Martin

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don't we theater people try to do our jobs proudly and properly?

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quote: Jason Black

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I think we (those in disagreement) are going to have to agree to disagree

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quote: Jason Black

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I also have stopped eating at Sonic becuase they have closed their drive-thru window so that someone actually brings your food out to you in the drive thru line. In my opinion, this obligates one to tip the person bringing the food, as you woudl do if you pulled up to the parking spot and ordered. Not cool. Allow me to choose, dont' force it upon me. I will, and have, taken my business elsewhere based on this fact. Actually, Sam's is right behind Sonic. I now hit Sam's and get a huge hot dog with chili and a 44oz drink for $2.32! I didn't need those fries or tots to begin with...

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Posted by Richard Greco (Member # 2032) on 11-22-2004, 05:10 PM:
 
I agree about Sonic. Jason, the delivery charge for us is actually 1.25

Some Hungry Howie's charge 2.00 for delivery
 

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Posted by Jason Black (Member # 684) on 11-22-2004, 06:06 PM:
 
RG,

This begs the question, how does the customer know that there is a $1.25 delivery fee if the advertising states FREE DELIVERY?

That makes no sense.. and if I'm understanding what you are saying, the customer is charged $1.25 for a delivery fee although all print ads state free delivery...

Makes NO sense...
 

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Posted by Richard Greco (Member # 2032) on 11-22-2004, 09:11 PM:
 
No print ads that I know of state free delivery

All ads say "Delivery Charge May Apply" meaning it is the stores discretion what they charge for delivery.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-23-2004, 12:03 AM:
 
At the movie grill all of the waiters get tips and the rest of the staff (food runners, bartenders, etc) get a split of the tips, yet the projection staff does the best job out of every aspect of the theater...yet the projectionists don't get a dime.
 

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Posted by Dave Williams (Member # 299) on 11-23-2004, 12:05 AM:
 
At my favorite theater, I get treated very well. The concession staff knows what I order, gets it ready when they see me in line, and has it ready for when I get up there.

I order my pizza a certain way there, they know what it is, i never have to screw with it. And they get a tip for making sure my stuff is ready when i get up to the counter.

It pays to let them know that YOU feel that THEY are just as special as you want to be treated. It gets you good treatment.

It may not be fair, but thats how it works.

Ciao

Dave
 

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Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 11-23-2004, 10:08 AM:
 
Dave

You are 100% right about that. I have the same thing here with a few of the places I eat and drink at. Be giving that little extra you get those extra little perks in service.
 

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Posted by Justin West (Member # 920) on 11-24-2004, 05:12 PM:
 
Here was their chance to improve their standing, yet these pizza delivery guys said NO.

Drivers Vote Against Union at Pizza Hut

Wed Nov 24, 6:08 AM ET
U.S. National - AP

SUNBURY, Ohio - A fledgling national union for pizza drivers has failed in another attempt to establish a union shop.
Drivers for a Pizza Hut in Sunbury voted 9-3 against unionization on Tuesday. The National Labor Relations Board supervised the vote. "It didn't quite go the way we had hoped it would go," said Matt Howard, 25, of Delaware, who spearheaded the effort in the city about 20 miles northeast of Columbus. The Association of Pizza Delivery Drivers, based in Hendersonville, Tenn., failed earlier this month to organize a local in Lincoln, Neb. A vote at a Domino's franchise there ended in a tie. Howard said drivers at his store earn about $6 an hour and 75 cents per delivery. He said he wanted the proposed union to fight for wages closer to $9 an hour and to get a mileage reimbursement rate. An executive with Kent-based Hallrich Inc., which owns the Sunbury Pizza Hut, was in Sunbury on Tuesday but declined to comment. APDD started in 2002 on the Internet and currently has 600 members, according to treasurer Tim Lockwood.
 

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Posted by Richard Greco (Member # 2032) on 11-24-2004, 11:27 PM:
 
Now this story is about an experience today at a sports bar.

I sat down at a table, ordered my drink and my food. My drink was brought immediately, but my appetizer was latet. I ended up asking a guy who worked there to check on my food after about 35 mins. He went back and brought my wings out. About 3 mins later my original waitress came and brought me a dish for my wing bones. About 5 mins later, she finally brought out my lunch(Cuban with fries) I was still in the middle of my wings, so I didn't eat it yet.

This guy came up about three times when he saw my drink was low and asked me if I wanted a refill. He immediately got me a new drink. I saw my waitress about 3 more times pass. About 10 mins after I got my sandwich, the man came up and asked how was everything?. About 5 mins later, my waitress came and asked how I was doing. I was thinking that this guy was going to get the tip.

Anyways, she passed and I asked for a to go box since I hadn't finished my sandwich and fries. She came right back with one and my check too. She was friendly to me, but her service sucked! I flagged down the guy that helped me and gave him my check and I was ready to pay. He went and gave her the money $20.00 on a 15.72 bill. She went away for a few minutes and saw me still sitting there watching a TV. She actually said to me, exact words, "Did you want you change back?"

That was it for me. I said, "Of Course". I told her I wanted a dollar of my change in quarters. She finally got my change and I'm still watching TV(Good Football Recap Show). The guy then come by and I tell him that I'm only giving the waitress a .50 cent tip (I think is still too much) I then hand him 2.00 and tell him thanks for the job he did helping me. He said it wasn't a problem and left the money sitting on the table.

Near the end of the show, he came by and I started talking to him for a few minutes. He introduced himself as the manager, shook my hand, and we had a short conversation. He said as far as the waitress goes that he'd handle it and that next time I come in, he'll take care of me.

That was a really good manager...

She ended up with .50 too much I think...

Now I realize that this is going against what I believe as far as tips go, but this is a sit down restaurant, you tip based on service you get.
 

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Posted by David Yauch (Member # 2754) on 11-27-2004, 05:01 AM:
 
What I tip depends on a LOT of things. Lets not forget that while these pizza drivers and whatnot are working off tips, I'm not getting paid much either, and I really don't have the money to pay an extra 15% on everything I order either. If you want a tip from me, you're going to earn it. When I find myself in need of something and the waitress/waiter is no where to be found and I don't see them for 10-15 minutes then you can bet they just gave away their tip. On the other hand if I have a good experience I don't mind parting with some money and letting a manager know about it as well.

As for pizza, my brother and brother-in-law were both delivery drivers, so I have some sympathy. There will always be a tip(barring a total delivery meltdown), but sometimes it's not going to be very big, that's life.

There's also a bowling alley that's in a city just a few miles down the road that is night/day as far as distribution of wealth is concerned when you compare it to where I live. It's not a secret that the ladies working behind the snack bar aren't making a lot, and probably aren't living very well. They all(with the exception of one) are always very nice, so they usually get about 30% from me. They put out a tip jar, in my opinion, because they can't afford not to. As long as they don't start asking me for tips, and as long as the service stays good, I'll continue to tip. I'd probably just lose the change afterwards anyways so I might as well leave it with someone who could use it.
 

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Posted by Richard Greco (Member # 2032) on 08-15-2005, 12:18 PM:
 
Well, I'm back into the delivery business again. Check out tipthepizzaguy.com and you will learn a GREAT deal about tipping and when it should and should not be done.
 

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Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 08-15-2005, 02:12 PM:
 
With your Firebird? What was the city mpg you were getting?
 

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Posted by Richard Greco (Member # 2032) on 08-15-2005, 11:03 PM:
 
My bad, I forgot to tell you that my grandmother passed away in May and I inherited her car, a 2000 Dodge Intrepid 3.2L V6. It's my first car with a/c and with the modifications I've done so far + a tune up, it gets about 19-20 city MPG. Also my best MPG for a vehicle.
 

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Posted by Mike Heenan (Member # 392) on 08-15-2005, 11:17 PM:
 
What happened to the Firebird?
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 08-16-2005, 12:15 AM:
 
My car is about 35-40mpg city. 2003 Honda Civic.

SUV's are teh suk.
 

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Posted by Kurt Zupin (Member # 2751) on 08-17-2005, 06:44 PM:
 
Ok maybe I missed something here, Richard are you no longer employed at that drive-in? Did I miss something?
 

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Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 08-17-2005, 07:07 PM:
 

quote: Joe Redifer

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My car is about 35-40mpg city. 2003 Honda Civic

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That is amazing gas milage. Is that real stop and go city driving or is it a city/hwy mix? What do you get on the highway?
 

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Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 03-27-2008, 11:52 AM:
 

It has been 952 days since the last post.

 

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Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 03-27-2008, 11:52 AM:
 
Should tips based on the pre sales tax amount, or the grand total including the tax?
 

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Posted by Bob Maar (Member # 763) on 03-27-2008, 12:29 PM:
 
Do not include the tips in the calculation. Base only on the amount pre-tip.
 

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Posted by James Westbrook (Member # 3690) on 03-27-2008, 04:26 PM:
 
Pre-tax. Net amount times __% = tip.
(I think that attempt at a formula is right)
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 03-27-2008, 05:09 PM:
 
It's easiest for me to take the most significant digits of the total $ amount and divide by 10 then double it...(20%).

If the waiter is *REALLY* hhot and friendly 50% or more! (Gosh! I'm sooooo shallow!)

If the service is lousy, 1-10% of the total at the most. Sometimes less than a $1.00...if I don't plan to go back so as to avoid the spit and/or pee on my food thingie!

That'll learn 'em!
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-27-2008, 06:01 PM:
 
A friend and I were in the Hooters at Fargo, ND last year. We had the nicest waitress, she was very pleasant (and good to look at, goes without saying). BUT, the kitchen screwed up our order. First they "forgot" to get it started, then when it did arrive, my fries were missing and my friend's sandwich was wrong.

Well, my friend was a jerk to the waitress about the whole thing, being demeaning to her and all. I, on the other hand was as nice as I could be to her through the whole ordeal, because I knew it wasn't her fault and on top of it I felt sorry for her having to put up with my friend's jerk-ness. She said she would "comp" us a round of drinks because of the hassle. When the bill came, she had comped the round all right, but she had also comped MY entire meal and drinks! So needless to say she got a very nice tip from me.
 

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Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 03-28-2008, 01:12 AM:
 
Mike,

You blew your chance.
 

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Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 03-28-2008, 08:36 AM:
 
He didn't say the tip was in cash!
 

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Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 03-28-2008, 09:16 AM:
 
Touche.
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-28-2008, 09:24 AM:
 
Nah. She was about 20, and I'm 51 and therefore invisible to her. (Not that I wouldn't have wanted to!!)
 

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Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 03-29-2008, 01:20 AM:
 

quote:

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He didn't say the tip was in cash!

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