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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-02-2004, 09:34 PM:
 
From the Salt Lake Trib... What cop in his right mind would ticket someone for one headlight out??? Had to be Barney.....
http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_2476994

Mark

Manti man pays his fine with 8,200 pennies

A Manti man who paid an $82 fine with a bucket full of pennies has been asked to come back into the Sanpete County Justice Court and pay in paper. But Grant Petersen said he probably will not comply. The way he figures it, pennies are still legal tender. "I paid the fine," Petersen said. "I wasn't planning on going back into court to pay a different way." Petersen, a clerk at Wal-Mart, acknowledged he was a bit put off when the court fined him $82 for driving with a burned out headlight. To get in his 2 cents worth with the court, he went to his bank and withdrew the 8,200 coins. Then he went to the court. A few days later, he received a letter from the court clerk asking him to submit a more "acceptable" form of payment. Utah state court spokeswoman Nancy Volmer said state policy allows court clerks to reject "unusual forms of payment." "It's going to take time for someone to sit down and count that," Volmer said. "We don't have the resources to do that, especially in small rural areas." Petersen, though, figures his reading of federal law trumps the court policy. In rejecting the court's plea for paper payment, he's relying on Title 31 of the U.S. Code, which states, "United States coins and currency are legal tender for all debts [and] public charges." - Matthew D. LaPlante
 

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Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 12-02-2004, 10:05 PM:
 
Heck, I've been ticketed for having a headlight out here. All I had to do was get it fixed and show it to a police officer, have him endorse the citation, then mail it in to the court. No fine unless it wasn't fixed within a certain time period.

Like the idea of paying a disputed fine with pennies. If the payment is rejected, it would make for an enjoyable court fight in and of itself. I'd do it just to watch the various civil "servant" reactions.
 

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Posted by Ben Holley (Member # 2247) on 12-02-2004, 11:40 PM:
 
someone in my town paid a speeding ticket with a fake hundred dollar bill, he was then immediantly arrested and more fake money was found in his wallet, sheeesh
 

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Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 12-03-2004, 12:04 AM:
 

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

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What cop in his right mind would ticket someone for one headlight out???

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What Paul said. Yep, it happens all the time. In big trucks, we have to constantly watch for a lot of little things that we can get big fines for. Stuff like marker and clearance lights out, mud flap damage, small windshield cracks, bridge law: legal distance between trailer tandems and kingpin while maintaining proper axle weight (and which differs from state to state, btw), infinite possibilities of logbook violations, and the list goes on...
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 12-03-2004, 01:38 AM:
 
Maybe the guy already had had a warning. If so, the ticket was deserved. Or, maybe the guy would have gotten a warning but chose to be a smartass to the cop.

Having one headlight out means you can only see half as much; AND, a drunk driver coming the other way might think you're a motorcycle and cut you a little too close.
 

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Posted by Mike Bianchi (Member # 271) on 12-03-2004, 03:19 AM:
 
Being a cop, I can say there probably was some extenuating circumstance to get cited for the headlight - but there are more Barney's out there than I care to admit. Typically, 1-headlight stops are purely to see if the driver is drunk. If he's sober, he gets a pat on the arse and a warning to get the headlight fixed. So, he probably had prior warnings or acted like a jerk to the cop.

Being a smart-aleck, I love it that he paid in pennies. I did the same thing once. The sanitation department lost my check, admitted that they lost it, but still disconnected my water service. The fee was $25 to have the water turned back on. I exhausted all appeals to management up to the top dog. They all admitted that they lost the check, but said there was nothing they could do about the $25.

So, I dutifully paid the $25 in pennies. I had to sit out in their lobby for 2 hours while they counted them. I was really ticked off, so I actually paid $26 is pennies. They counted them all twice, hehehe, and then gave me 100 pennies back.

It was well-worth the two hour wait!
 

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Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 12-03-2004, 06:08 AM:
 

quote: Mike Bianchi

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Being a cop

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Then you will certainly appreciate this picture.


 

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Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 12-03-2004, 06:58 AM:
 
A red sports car magnetizes the police. A red sports car with an out-state (or even out-of county) tag works even better. Tickets for equipment violations like a headlight or tail light out usually mean you only pay a fine if you don't have it fixed & show proof at the courthouse. But you're a sure bet to pay the fine if you're cited & are not likely to be driving back to Tuttifrutti TexaMinneKansas.

quote: Mike Bianchi

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Being a cop, I can say there probably was some extenuating circumstance to get cited for the headlight - but there are more Barney's out there than I care to admit.

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The extenuating circumstance can be cop boredom. I was driving in a Chrysler Newport around 3 a.m. Sunday morning on a 2 lane rural highway when a car got right behind me with its headlights on bright. Slowed down to 5 mph under the limit so he could get around, he stayed there for another 4 minutes. Slowed another 5 mph, the flashing lights came on. "See your license, please step out of the car."
"What's wrong?"

"Driving sort of slow, aren't you Mr. Hooper?"

This the time you know to say nothing.

"Please blow into this. Stay here, please."

Saunters back to his car, comes back, "Would you touch you nose like this?"

Two more police cars roll up, "Would you stay here, pleas." They get out & start socializing by the 1st police car. 1st one comes back "I want you to walk down this center line, with your arms out."

"Wait here please." Sounds of chat from police at the car behind.

"Okay Mr. Hooper. You can get back in your car. I'm going to give you this ticket because you've got a tail light out. Have a nice morning."

They all drive away. I get out, look at the back of the car, all the lights are OK.

"Barneys" may be a police euphemism for cops with personality & social problems that make them need to abuse their positions & citizens, but I prefer the term that a newcaster I knew called them: "Little Hitlers".
 

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Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 12-03-2004, 07:15 AM:
 
I got a ticket 120 feet from my home in Atlanta once. I started the car, pulled out of my space, and got the blue light. He told me that I had a headlight that was ABOUT to burn out.

My question? How did he see my headlight? He was behind me, and I was heading away from him on the street.

I fought the ticket and it was dropped. Still pissed me off. Plus: There was nothing wrong with any of my headlights.
 

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Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 12-03-2004, 11:17 AM:
 
Obviously he was out to get you or was trying to make a quota. Don't they have to list the traffic or vehicle code violation on the citation? Even if via mental telepathy he was able to detect that a headlight he could not see was about to fail, what law were you allegedly in violation of? Did the arresting officer show up in court? The judge should have cited him for making a frivolous charge.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 12-03-2004, 03:09 PM:
 
About 2 years ago I got pulled over by a Texas State Trooper and given a $90 ticket for not wearing my seatbelt. The guy pulls me over, walks up and asks for my driver's license and insurance (which I provide immediately.) I ask "what seems to be the problem?"

"You aren't wearing your seatbelt."

I look down at my seatbelt, fastened, that has been that way since I left the house. Then look back up at him, back at the seatbelt, then back at him.

"Excuse me sir, but I am wearing my seatbelt."

"Don't get smart with me."

He walks back to his car. 5 minutes later he returns and hands me my ID, insurance and a ticket, then babbles on about "you have so many days to go to the courthouse, blah, blah, blah." Then he just walks off.

Now bear in mind this was about 1 week after I was pulled over by a cop and given a ticket for speeding. While sometimes I do speed, I was not speeding at that time and there were several other cars FLYING past me, easily 20-30MPH over the limit.

Anyway that seat belt thing was the final straw. I no longer give donations to the state trooper association or police funds of any kind. I used to be quite generous to all law enforcement charities (wives of officers killed on the job, etc). No more. Fuck 'em.
 

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Posted by John Westlund (Member # 913) on 12-03-2004, 03:25 PM:
 
Im not a police officer but do have my AA Degree in Crminal Justice Administration and am about to enter the Police Academy. Im not sure about other states but in the California Vehicle Code says that no law enforcement agency can establish an arrest or citation quota. Granted, that if officers don't make arrests or write citations agencies feel they have no reason to keep those officers around. Just something to think about. I hear that all the time from people that have recieved tickets. "He was just trying to fill his quota."

California Vehicle Code Section 41602 if anyone wanted to know.
 

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Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 12-03-2004, 03:29 PM:
 
Of course there are quotas. Maybe not a certain number (although there have been cases in this area where officers have attested to their superiors specifying a number) but surely certain levels of "productivity" are expected. And it stands to reason that if everyone is obeying the significant laws the more apt one is to get hit with a trivial violation. Or have something invented if the pressure on the officers is enough.

I've been thinking that technology has reached the point where for not too much money it would be possible to equip cars with a couple of cheap webcam type video cameras with wide angle lenses looking fore and aft and recording to a harddrive, say the last 10 to 15 minutes or whatever is practical. This to show what happened in an accident. Looks like one inside the cabin will be needed too. With audio.
 

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Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 12-03-2004, 06:56 PM:
 
There are no written quotas, at least not in Wisconsin. However, I am told that if you don't have a certain amount of 'activity' suspicions start to arise about whether or not you were doing your job. Lots of open road/country here that an officer could pull over and get a good nap.
 

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Posted by Wolff King Morrow (Member # 2226) on 12-04-2004, 10:50 AM:
 
Years ago when I still lived in California, I was given a ticket as an 8-year-old boy for "walking my bike on the wrong side of the road". Keep in mind I was in a residential suburb attempting to read the house numbers in order to find my friend's house. I was forced to go to court, upon which the judge yelled at me and gave me the maximum fine and assigned me traffic school. Again, an 8-year-old kid walking his bike, yet I was treated like a dirtbag hardened criminal.

To date that is the only citation I have ever been given in my entire life.
 

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Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 12-06-2004, 11:45 AM:
 
Best way to aviod getting screwed by the cops is to simply know your rights, and make the cop aware that you're aware of the situation.

First, always look for the officer's name. Continue to answer his questions with his name: "Yes, officer Smith. No, officer Smith." This will sometimes make the cop ease up, knowing that you know his name and are paying attention to his every move.

Second, always ask what you were stopped for. IIRC, the law in this state says that the officer must identify what he's stopping you for before you have to provide license/registration. If it's for speeding, ask to see the radar gun. Write down the model and number of it if you can. This will help you in court if you are faced with a speeding ticket. If the radar gun has not been properly inspected regularly for accuracy, the fine will be dropped.

Third, ask permission every step of the way. "May I reach in the gove box, Officer Smith?" -- "Do I have your permission to reach for my wallet, Officer Smith?" Again, this shows you're aware of the situation and not intimidated.

If you're asked to step out of the car, do so, but lock it behind you. This ensures the cop won't be tempted to perform an uncontested search. If the cop gets pissed, remember, it's your car and you can lock it if you want to.

And last, if at any time it becomes blatantly obvious the cop stopped you and THEN was looking for something to ticket you for (but he hasn't mentioned anything yet) the line, "Am I under arrest or otherwise being detained in connection with a crime? If not, I really need to get going." will set you free. If the officer says, "No." under federal law, you have the right to tell him to "have a nice day" and drive off.

Oh, and the officer also can't keep you there for an unreasonable amount of time. I believe this varies from state to state, but it's something in the range of 15-20 minutes for a traffic infraction. Never more than a half-hour. They also can't make you wait for another officer, k-9 unit, etc. Once you have your license, registration and ticket you're free to go. That is, unless you waived your right and agreed to wait when the cop asked you to.

=TMP=
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 12-06-2004, 12:30 PM:
 
Having spent many hours researching the Massachusetts laws regarding speeding tickets and traffic stops, I can say that, at least in Mass., cops can legitimately request one's license and registration before explaining the reason for the stop. Apparently, this is not the case in many other states.

Also, as far as I can tell, when stopped for speeding, it is a bad idea to ask the cop to show you the RADAR gun, tuning forks (used for checking the calibration on the gun), or anything else. It puts you in the "memorable" category and can agitate the cop. All kinds of information on the RADAR gun, its serial number, calibration and maintenance history, the officer's training on the device, etc. can be obtained later through public-records requests or through discovery (which method to use depends on the state). You can't win an argument with the cop, but you can win before a judge by showing that proper calibration procedures (etc.) were not followed, that the cop was not properly trained to use the device, or that the police department did not have the FCC license to use the device.

There's also the issue of whether or not the speed limits that are posted are actually legal--in Mass., speed limits are supposed to be based on an "85th per centile study" and are not to be posted arbitrarily; also, all signs are to be approved by the Mass. Highway Dept. Other signs posted without approval or without a study are illegal and invalid.

During a traffic stop, it's generally best to be cordial and do as instructed. With luck, you will receive a warning, rather than a ticket.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-06-2004, 08:36 PM:
 

quote:

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but you can win before a judge by showing that proper calibration procedures (etc.) were not followed,

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I won on this and another account once on a speeding ticket. This was back in the mid 70's in Elmhurst, Il.. In front of the judge I asked the cop to prove that he had calibrated the radar, that the tunning fork was working properly and that the radar itself was working properly at the very instant he caught me speeding. Of course he couldn't proove any of that.... and I took along another piece of artillery that I clipped out of the paper the day before. An article about a cop in Florida that had radared a tree doing 89 mph! That article was the iceing on the cake in my case to proove that Radar is not the final word on anything. They dismissed the case.

In Utah I've heard that requesting a discovery of something as simple as a speeding ticket is pretty much a guarantee of getting off. The discovery takes too long and costs any municpality way too much$$. It also has to be completed within a certain amount of time. Several people out here that I know have had their cases cancled because the requested Discovery couldn't even be completed in the required time !!

The other option to get off is the traffic school. I chose this avenue once and was glad that I did. Turns out the "retired cop" teaching the class was a true stand up comic and he had most of the class rolling in the aisles for the entire 90 min.duration. At the end the entire class went over the answers to the test together and filled em in. That class was a blast... I should go out and get a speeder just to go there again.... there was no cover charge either. This time I'd record it for later comic review.... I wonder if Dave W. has ever gone to this "cops" driving class?

Mark
 

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Posted by Barry Martin (Member # 1376) on 12-06-2004, 11:48 PM:
 
Scott, you'd probably love this story. I have had many speeding tickets, I think 7 in two years (back before my car died) but these were always acquired on long overnight rides down to Georgia or Tennessee to visit friends. Couldn't really contest them in court because they took place in distant states like Virginia, Tennessee, etc. and it just wasn't worth it to go back there so I paid them. By far the stupidest was the ONLY ticket I've ever gotten in Massachusetts.

My wife (pregnant with our first) and I were going down to King Richard's Faire, traveling down Route 1. It had rained earlier, but not badly and the road was slightly wet. Well, coming around a bend in Route One near/in Chelsea there is a spot that is notorious for skidding out. I had one group of friends driving ahead of me and one behind. The ones behind didn't know the way and were starting to drop back far so I slowed down from 60mph to 50 mph to let them catch up. Then my car loses traction (despite new tires) and my 1997 Pontiac Grand AM does a 360 spin from the "passing lane" on the left and crosses the other 2 lanes coming to rest at the side of the road.

Scared shitless, we just sat there getting ourselves calm. We got out of the car and I came over to the passenger side to check on my wife when an 18 wheeler starts losing control towards us. I threw my wife over the guardrail and jumped it. Fortunately the trucker got control before hitting my car. I realized that someone was going to get hurt (someone had actually spun out 10 minutes before us and her car had gone up onto the guardrail and had a road sign impaled through the engine, she had called for the police but they weren't there yet) and made a sign saying "SLOW DOWN!" and ran up the road past the point where we spun out.

For the most part, nobody else spun, a couple slides and rubs against the guardrail in the passing line, but nothing major. The police arrive and I ask if he can take over so my friends and I can get going and he asks I keep it up for a few minutes while they ascertain the situation. Finally 15 minutes later he comes to me and says he'll take over and I need to go see his superior. This guy asks how fast I was going and all this and when I tell him I wasn't sure, 55 or 50 he says "You shouldn't be going that fast when it's wet like this, there is a slippery when wet sign back there (there wasn't)". So he writes me a ticket for speeding!

Needless to say, I contested it and when I got in front of a magistrate and a State Trooper representative I told them I hadn't been speeding, about the spinout, and that I hung around trying to help people who would have otherwise probably been seriously injured. Magistrate asks me about my "accident". I said I wasn't in one, what do you mean accident? "On your ticket, 'accident' is checked off." I said I spun out but I didn't hit anything/anyone, is that an accident and he said "No." The trooper rep. didn't know what to say and so the Magistrate says okay, we'll look into it but for now the ticket and accident are off your record. If we find evidence though we can appeal it and put it back on your record."

So I'm really annoyed that this happened in the first place and now that there was an accident on my otherwise good record. Well, come 1 year later when I go to renew my insurance I find that I'm now 7 steps higher because of "guardrail damage paid during an at-fault accident" from the year prior. I call the State Troopers office, the Chelsea District Court, and the court says I have to talk to the Insurance Board of Appeals or some such. Well they say there is nothing that can be done, it's on my record and there is no appeal because it's over a year.

As far as I know it's still on my record, and because of that I'm not even pissed I don't have a car right now. But how bout that, I got a speeding ticket from a cop who wasn't even on scene when I was "speeding".
 

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Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 12-07-2004, 12:44 AM:
 

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

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I took along another piece of artillery that I clipped out of the paper the day before. An article about a cop in Florida that had radared a tree doing 89 mph! That article was the iceing on the cake in my case to proove that Radar is not the final word on anything.

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