Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Wireless Networks / Routers

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Posted by Scott D. Neff (Member # 185) on 12-20-2004, 02:20 PM:

I am so unbelievably frustrated.

Thing you need to know to understand this story. I've got lots of credit card debt, so I'm living at home with my mom. It's a big house, I'm never home, and she's pretty cool so I don't mind much.

About two years ago I bought a new computer and gave my mom the old one. She said she'd pay for the Cable Modem connection to Comcast if she could have internet in her room.

"No problem!" I say -- and I go out and buy a Linksys wireless router and a wireless bridge for her to use. I hook it up and have no problem communicating from one computer to the next. The problem was that the internet connection to my computer (the one that is actually attached to the router) would run slower than all hell. I had friends come take a look at it, and all it did was frustrate them. So to hell with it. I gave up.

So last week I got a brand new Dell 8400 and gave my mom the newer computer I was done with. I plugged in the Linksys router that had been sitting for a year, but the power cable didn't work. So after a trip to Radio Shack, I got the router to work, but couldn't get ANYTHING past that to work. So obviously Linksys just hates me.

So I trudge on down to Best Buy and get a D-Link Wireless Router and Wiress Access Card. One of my good friends said this is what he has, and he never has a problem with it.

So I come home, plug it in and it works fine with the internet. But I can't get the other computer to recognize!!!! After some frustrated chats with my friend Rex, he went on and made it work and I was happy for all of 4 days.

I turn on my computer today, and obviously something isn't right. Can't get on through the router. I go and reset everything and still, nothing. Out of frustration I've disconnected the router until I have more patience to deal with the thing.

But JEEEEEEEEEEEEZE!!! Does it need to be this hard? Why would the internet just stop working through the router when it was working so well for days.

GRRRRRRR.

I've got to go wash my dog.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 12-20-2004, 03:39 PM:

Normally it is pretty easy to set up routers, whether they're wired or wireless. I have a Linksys Etherfast BEFSR41 model four port router on my home setup. It works completely fine. I did a firmware upgrade on it several months ago to take care of a couple security issues with that model of router, but still no problems. I set up a Linksys Wireless 802.11g router at a friend's place and it went off without a hitch. Got the wireless broadcast encrypted and password protected to fend off wardrivers a bit better as well.

Do you have other types of software firewalls installed on either of the computers on the network? What OS is running on the two systems? Win XP Home is a real pain in the ass to deal with in networking situations, especially if you're trying to get it to "see" another computer using an older version of Windows. Win2000 and WinXP Professional are usually pretty easy to deal with when it comes to networking.

Are you running a computer with Win XP Service Pack 2 installed? SP2 automatically turns on that built-in software firewall within XP. That could block out some network connections.

Then there's the old trick of making sure all your hardware drivers are updated. It wouldn't seem like video card, sound card, printer and other periphreal drivers would make much of any difference in this situation. But you might be surprised.

Posted by David Yauch (Member # 2754) on 12-20-2004, 05:16 PM:

Can the computer communicate with each other?

Also, look at your IP address and compare it with the IP address of the other computer. A lot of times with my centrino notebook it will be assigned an IP address that is in no way similar to that of the other computers on the network. Usually you can solve it by simply disconnecting from the network and reconnecting.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 12-20-2004, 05:40 PM:

quote: Robert Henderson
I have a Linksys Etherfast BEFSR41

I have the same one. Needs to be replaced every year or so. I like the way it works and I hate the way the D-Links are set up, so I stick with it.

Scott D:
Stop buying computers and your debt will decrease!

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 12-20-2004, 05:56 PM:

Scott, ya shouda got a Netgear wireless & wired router WGT624. I have them at my 2 houses and have NEVER had a problem with them.

Linksys & D-Link SUX!

BTW: Keep running up those credit cards... when you max them all out, skip town... [Wink]

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 12-20-2004, 06:08 PM:

Have you upgraded the firmware on the router to the latest version? Lots of this stuff ships with buggy firmware that needs to be upgraded before the thing works as advertised. Generally, you can download the firmware image and install it via tftp. It's usually a good idea to call the support line for your router to find out which firmware version you should be running.

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 12-20-2004, 08:35 PM:

I have a NetGear WGT624 wireless router. If the wireless function is enabled, but there are no wireless devices communicating with it, the router reboots every few minutes. Over and over. I've complained to NetGear. They had me upgrade the firmware. Still has the same problem. So if my wireless device isn't turned on, I have to disable the wireless function of the router. [thumbsdown]

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 12-20-2004, 08:38 PM:

David, sounds like a set-up/operator error problem. I've had ZERO probs with both of mine.

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 12-20-2004, 09:13 PM:

Don't think so. I've monkeyed with the settings, including WEP enabled vs. disabled, SSID broadcast enabled vs. disabled, etc. etc. and no matter what I do, if the remote wireless device is not on, the router insists on doing the reboot thing. A misconfiguration might prevent wireless operation from working at all, but there's nothing the user should be able to do that would cause the router to reboot spontaneously and repeatedly.

Oh goody - I see they have a new firmware upgrade. I'll go try it out and see what happens... [Razz]

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 12-20-2004, 10:32 PM:

I have a Microsoft MN-700 Wireless Base Station (& 4 port switch) both at home and at work. Only using it as a firewall. I got this because my friend the consultant said his experience with other brands was that they need rebooting from time to time but the MS one was pretty solid. Seems to work ok although I find it funny that when I open the software utility it always says the network is *not* connected to the internet even though it is. When I bought the 2nd one I actually picked up another just because they were so cheap. Under $30.

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 12-20-2004, 11:26 PM:

quote: Steve Kraus
his experience with other brands was that they need rebooting from time to time but the MS one was pretty solid.

WOW!! There's a switch! [Big Grin]

Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 12-21-2004, 10:03 AM:

Did you read the manual? Sometimes you have to open a browser and "log in" to the router before it recognizes your computer. That's to prevent anybody in your area from hopping on your wireless connection for a free ride (moreso in apartment buildings than homes).

Could be too that someone DID hop on your connection, logged into the router, and blocked your IP address(es) to give themselves faster access. [Smile]

I had to block everyone but my roommate because at times I would have 4 or 5 connections on the network when nobody was home but me. It's frustrating when my friends come over with laptops, because I have to go back into the router setup and allow their IPs.

He's got a wireless card in his laptop, and my computer is hard-wired to the router.

Also make sure that you are NOT splitting your cable signal before it gets to the modem!! It has to have a direct line from the wall to the modem. Any combination through splitters, VCR's or cable boxes will screw up your connection.

Sometimes it could be a problem if the two computers have different operating systems. If one of them is WinXP and the other is not, there's a feature to make some kind of disk to put into the non-XP computer to get it to work. Had to do this at my friend's house.

Anyway.... tried any of this? Or did you throw the manual away for the new one, too? [Razz]

=TMP=

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 12-21-2004, 11:30 AM:

If you're running wireless, you MUST secure it. I did a wireless survey in the office building where I work before I installed our wireless access point, and I picked up 3 SSIDs being broadcast. Two of them were secure, but one was wide open. Don't broadcast your SSID at all if you can get away with it, and at least enable WEP security (or better if all devices support it).

NetGear does try to make the installation of their wireless routers as painless as possible, with a nice setup wizard and all that, but damn, you need to know a little about what you're doing. I don't know how Jane or Joe User get this stuff working without some technical assistance.

Oh yeah: I upgraded the firmware last night, turned on the wireless function, and so far I've had no rebooting. There was nothing in the upgrade notes about that particular problem, but as of now it looks like my problem is fixed. Woo hoo.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 12-21-2004, 11:56 AM:

It's really shocking just how many wireless router users have unsecured connections. A friend of mine brought her 802.11g enabled notebook to my house to hook into my router to download WinXP Service Pack 2. When she booted up there were four different SSID broadcasts detected by her notebook and three were unsecure. They just had default network names like "Linksys" and "DLink".

This problem exists because most computer users are very lazy. They don't want to be bothered with opening a manual and reading some simple stuff about getting security measures set. It is easy to change the name of the router, passwords, encryption method and IPs to allow and ports to open for things like Internet gaming access. Most people do what little they have to do to just get up and running.

It's a good thing I'm not an evil person. There is so much sinister potential for wrong-doing in "wardriving." The only upside I see for all those unsecured wireless access points is it will screw up the business model for those companies wanting to charge notebook users for hotspot access.

Posted by Mike Williams (Member # 1140) on 12-21-2004, 01:17 PM:

It sounds to me like a good defense (should you ever get an RIAA subpoena) is to say that you bought a wireless access point and did not know how to secure it... I wonder how well that would hold up in court.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 12-21-2004, 01:41 PM:

Wouldn't that be like saying that you just bought a new car and didn't know how to drive it?

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 12-21-2004, 01:52 PM:

Scott, I don't think many consumers are likely to be willing
to upgrade firmware with tftp.

There's nothing wrong with running an open wireless network, as long as you understand the risks. Many people do it deliberately. Friendliness and openness and all that.

--jhawk

Posted by Mike Williams (Member # 1140) on 12-21-2004, 01:53 PM:

quote: Scott Norwood
Wouldn't that be like saying that you just bought a new car and didn't know how to drive it?

I don't think so. Using the car analogy, I think it would be like saying "I bought a new car, but did not know that my neighbor's kid was joy riding in it at night when I was asleep."

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 12-21-2004, 06:52 PM:

quote: John Hawkinson
There's nothing wrong with running an open wireless network, as long as you understand the risks. Many people do it deliberately. Friendliness and openness and all that.

This is a pretty good marketing tool for certain kinds of businesses, such as coffee shops, restaurants, bookstores and any other place geared to attract a more technologically oriented (and likely more affluent) crowd. I was amazed that free WiFi hotspots were popping up in places like new rest areas along Texas highways.

What isn't smart is when someone is running their home computing network behind an unsecured wireless router. Anyone with a notebook computer could drive around neighborhoods in just about any city and find unsecured routers and full access to computers behind the routers.

Posted by David Yauch (Member # 2754) on 12-22-2004, 11:02 PM:

I agree with bobby. And if you don't secure your network, at LEAST put a password on all of your network files.

Another option is to leave it unsecure, wait for some activity that isn't your own, and then run outside with a shotgun and chase off the perp. Either that or throw a bunch of files with names like "credit card numbers," "banking account numbers," and "porn site passwords" in your documents folder, making sure they are thoroughly virus ridden first...

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 12-23-2004, 03:07 PM:

Some of us believe in securing our endsystems so they're not vulnerable to network attack. If you grow dependant on a firewall, you are eventually doomed to failure. Someone will plug in another machine on the network with virus, or crack the encryption on your wireless network, etc. You are inevitably doomed to fail.

--jhawk

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 12-23-2004, 05:47 PM:

Indeed, because nobody would ever attack an unencrypted connection.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 12-23-2004, 09:35 PM:

Agreed completely with jhawk. Your systems should be set up in a reasonably "secure" fashion regardless of what sort of packet filter is (or isn't) between them and the rest of the world.

Thus, the real concern with open access points isn't one of intrusion, but rather one of misuse of one's network connectivity (e.g. to send out spam, attack remote hosts, or do any number of other "bad" things for which a typical ISP would kill your account).

Posted by Scott D. Neff (Member # 185) on 12-24-2004, 02:38 AM:

Thanks to everybody for their replies.

I've been too busy Christmas shopping to dick around with the silly router since I posted.

The issue that sounds most likely to be the problem would be the firewall situation. I am running the McAfee personal firewall+ program that came with my compy, so that's probably one evil I need to root out.

Hopefully tomorrow I can figure it all out.

Merry Christmas everybody.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 12-24-2004, 10:52 AM:

I guess I wasn't clear enough in my point. The problem with most unsecured wireless access points is that most computers behind them have low levels of security.

You can wardrive around town and find at least a few computers with shared level access and be able to see and alter the contents of the hard disc. Jhawk is right that a firewall inside a router is not enough.

There's at least several different things users should be doing to protect their machines. The most basic steps for any WindowsXP machine should be controlling or removing any shared level access from the machine on the network, having a software firewall running to control data leaving the computer and having updated anti-viral/anti-spyware software.

Most WindowsXP users simply use a single login with full administrator rights. I don't agree with that practice. It's a lot better to have an admin-level login to only use when you're making alterations to software or accessing sensitive data. Use a more restricted login for everyday/casual use.