This is topic Earthquake & Killer Tsunamis, Christmas 2004 in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 12-27-2004, 03:37 PM:
 
Holy Cow! Did you see the video of the waves coming in and just ripping through the towns? God, that must have been freaky.

One geologist said that the earthquake actually affected the Earth's rotation. Health experts said that the diseases that will undoubtedly come about in Asia as a part of this will probably include things like polio, cholera, the avian flu, etc, and will likely be carried all over the world as a result of people coming to help and other people leaving to get away. Crazy crazy crazy stuff.

My thoughts and prayers go out to the (at last count) 24,000+ victims and their families.

Unbelieveable.
 

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Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 12-27-2004, 04:50 PM:
 
Scary stuff ain't it? My brother and his wife bought a fixer-upper on the coast of Thailand last year. Fortunately their house is in Pattiya (her home town, about a 2-hour drive SE from Bangkok) and thus was shielded from these tsunamis by the Malay peninsula.
 

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 12-27-2004, 05:23 PM:
 
Yeah, that was some pretty freaky stuff!

I think George Bush ought to be the first guy to stand up and send some aid... Even if it means he sends only a couple of planes full of emergency relief supplies and a couple-few hundred troops for support.

If he wants to claim ANY legitimacy for the things he's doing with the U.S. Armed Forces in other parts of the world he'd better be the first one to get some planes full of supplies on the ground.

I don't care what you think about the things Bush is doing in other parts of the world. Right now, the priority is Indonesia (and surrounding) That's where *I* want my tax money spent.
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 12-27-2004, 07:08 PM:
 
Yeah, maybe other countries won't "hate us" so bad once they see the outpouring of help that's sure to shower that area in the next weeks. The Montana Red Cross is already collecting cash donations to send.
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 12-27-2004, 07:12 PM:
 
Nah, they'll "hate" us no matter what. We just need to unconditionally help those in need without worrying about what those assholes that hate us think. Fuck 'em!

They being assholes should NOT dissuade us from helping people that are in need.
 

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 12-27-2004, 07:50 PM:
 
I have no illusions about people in other countries hating the USA. People will either hate us or not. There's really nothing anybody can do to change that. It's called the "80-20 Rule".

20% of the people in the world will either love you or hate you no matter what. 10% will always hate you no matter how good you act. 10% will love you no matter how bad you are.

80% of the people in the world couldn't give a flyin' fuck one way or another!



(Okay, I dramatize. But you get the point.)

No, this isn't about "Image" or "Public Relations". It's about doing what's right and keeping a consistent message.

If you go around saying that one thing you are doing is "The right thing to do" but, when there's obvious need in another area, you DON'T step up to the plate then there is no way you can claim legitimacy in any action you take from then on.

I'm NOT trying to say that doing a good deed makes up for a bad one.

In words that George Bush might use... This is more of a question of:

* Don't let your mouth write a check your ass can't cash.

* Put your money where your mouth is.

* Put up or shut up.

* Vote with your feet.

And, in the words of Wilford Brimley, "It's the right thing to do!".
 

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Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 12-27-2004, 09:47 PM:
 
You can rest assured that the US will spend probably ten times what everyone else will spend in aid between the government and private donations. We always do. Americans have a way of stepping up during crisis moments, even though just about everyone we've ever helped tends to forget about it in about six months and then demand that we spend more.

No need to turn this into a political thread and get it locked. Help is on the way, I'm sure.
 

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 12-27-2004, 10:48 PM:
 
I've got another question. Why was there no warning?

The sea quake that hit off the coast of Indonesia caused a gigantic displacement of millions and millions and millions of tons of sea water which rippled through the ocean until it came ashore in places like Sri Lanka... One of the places in the world that can least afford a catastrophe like this. SURELY they could have had an early warning system of SOME KIND in place!

It only took 2-3 hours for the shock waves to travel from the point of origin to the point of impact. That's not a lot of time, for sure, but in three hours, MANY lives could have been saved! No?

I don't want to hear about how difficult it is to detect tsunamis! For $50 I could build you a tsunami detector out of materials you can find in your basement!

Check out this article in Scientific American

That article was published in 1998. Then, again, Sci Am published a FEATURE ARTICLE on tsunames in May 1999.

Then, yet AGAIN, the SAME magazine published a 6 page article about undersea earthquakes and the tsunamis they can casue...

IN MARCH, 2004... only 9 months ago!

For sure, there's no way to know what Mother Nature will do next. But, for CRYIN' OUT LOUD! We DO know how to tell what happened, when it happened and we DO know what to do when it does happen!

Y'Know... We've got people in one place fighting over a strip of land, 24 miles long, in the middle of a desert. (Gaza Strip) In another place, in the middle of the desert, there are bombs being dropped, day and night. (Iraq) But, for the lack of $50 worth of junk from some guy's basement and about an hour, sitting on the toilet, reading a magazine 15,000 people died because they couldn't tell whether or not there was a WAVE?

"Bullshit!", I say!
 

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Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 12-28-2004, 12:10 AM:
 

quote: Randy Stankey

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I've got another question. Why was there no warning?

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Because the tsunami warning systems don't include the Indian Ocean. There has never before been a recorded tsunami in the Indian Ocean.

The NWS code for a tsunami watrning is TSW. If you see 6 letters coming across the teletype & the middle three are TSW, bring in the crab traps!
 

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Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 12-28-2004, 12:14 AM:
 
Tsunamis are rare in the Indian Ocean so a warning network was never set up along the coasts there. Thailand for instance has a warning system in place, but only on the Pacific side. So Phuket, on the Indian Ocean side of the Malay Peninsula, got clobbered with no warning. Using 20/20 hindsight they'll probably get an Indian Ocean network installed now, especially since so many tourist spots have developed along that coast.

Civil defense communications systems are essentially non-existant in any of the poor countries that line the Indian Ocean. So even if a tsunami were detected and a warning issued, there's no infrastructure in place to get the warning out to all those low-income, rural, fishing villages that line the coast. They'd still get clobbered without much warning.

Communications could be improved, but the cost would be beyond what these countries can afford. Which means in the end the UN and the USA may get to pay for it. In the end it's cheaper to just lose 20,000+ mostly poor people to a tsunami once every hundred years or so. That's what the actuaries would say.

BTW the east coast of the US faces a statistically similar tsunami threat. Guess what, there's no Atlantic tsunami warning network, even with such a huge population exposure. Imagine what that'll look like after a big seismic event off the coast of Africa someday.
 

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Posted by Jeffrey Korns (Member # 2791) on 12-28-2004, 12:22 AM:
 
The reason they did not detect the Tsunami is because they do not have detectors in the Indian Ocean. The Pacific is monitored by the US and Japan. The countries in the Indian ocean would rather spend money on arms or attempting to aquire nuclear weapons, or otherwise screwing the poor in their country.
As for countries hating the US, well that's life. Some putz from the UN was already on the news complaining that the US isn't doing enough right now.
Quite honestly, if the US told the UN most Americans wouldn't be too upset and would probably go to the pier at NY harbor and waive goodbye to the UN. Of course it's not in our country's best interest to do this (nothing altruistic or noble about it, it's just in our interest to aid other countries and maintain alliances).
 

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Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 12-28-2004, 12:45 AM:
 
Four hurricanes hit Florida.

Red Socks win the World Series.

Mt. St. Helens goes apeshit.

And now Tsunami-causing earthquakes.

Methinks one of these "God" people everyone is talking about is mad. And not just mad, but really really pissed off at people.

=TMP=
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 12-28-2004, 12:49 AM:
 
What is "avian flu"? Is that the high-priced bottled flu? I want some! Sounds delicious!

Oh yeah, next political comment gets this thread locked.
 

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Posted by David Yauch (Member # 2754) on 12-28-2004, 06:18 AM:
 
First off, my best wishes to all the family of the dead and those displaced by the disaster.

But that's a little too mature to leave it, so I'll ask if you could write this phoenetically for me:

quote: Paul Mayer

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Phuket

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quote: Joe Redifer

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What is "avian flu"?

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Avian Flu (AKA "The Bird Flu")

We're up over 40,000 now. Some estimates say 60,000+ is likely.

There was an earthquake in Iran last year that killed 40,000 some people too, for those that don't remember.
 

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Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 12-28-2004, 01:25 PM:
 
For David,

Phuket, "poo KET" with "ket" as in "ketchup".

Why do you ask? How do you think it should be pronounced? Probably the way I thought it should be pronounced the first time I saw it.

[ 12-28-2004, 05:50 PM: Message edited by: Paul Mayer ]
 

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Posted by Dan Lyons (Member # 1454) on 12-28-2004, 02:44 PM:
 
ha!! We have tons of places with that word in the name here in OC. I always thought you were supposed to say Fuck It.
It's much more fun that way.
 

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Posted by David Buckley (Member # 2600) on 12-28-2004, 04:18 PM:
 
To those folks who thinks most of the world hates America:

Not everyone hates America.

Many people globally are resentful of America, as America offers the possibility of a lifestyle that they can only dream of, these people are jealous and frustrated rather than hateful

Many people dont like the way that America behaves, even though we understand why America has to behave that way

But it doesnt mean these people hate America, or Americans.
 

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Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 12-28-2004, 04:47 PM:
 
They're now talking about up to 60,000 dead now, and expected to rise. I don't know what else to say, it's impossiible to imagine a dsaster of that magnitude.
 

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Posted by Gerard S. Cohen (Member # 994) on 12-28-2004, 07:29 PM:
 
We as individuals can send money for aid by dialing our telephones and charging to our credit cards. My wife and I have sent funds via the Doctors Without Borders and the International Red Cross.

New York's Mayor Bloomberg cautions people to beware of scams,citing the many phony charities that sprang up after 9/11.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

December 28, 2004
DONATIONS
Agencies Accepting Aid Dollars
Some legit charities here

Following are some of the agencies accepting contributions for aid to people affected by the earthquake and tsunami in Asia.

ACTION AGAINST HUNGER
247 West 37th Street, Suite 1201
New York, N.Y. 10018
212-967-7800 x108
www.actionagainsthunger.org

AMERICAN JEWISH WORLD SERVICE
45 West 36th Street, 10th Floor
New York, N.Y. 10018
800-889-7146
www.ajws.org

AMERICAN JEWISH JOINT DISTRIBUTION COMMITTEE
South Asia Tsunami Relief
Box 321
847A Second Avenue
New York, N.Y. 10017
212-687-6200 ext. 851
www.jdc.org

AMERICAN FRIENDS SERVICE COMMITTEE
AFSC Crisis Fund
1501 Cherry Street
Philadelphia, Pa. 19102
215-241-7000
www.afsc.org

AMERICAN RED CROSS
International Response Fund
P.O. Box 37243
Washington, D.C. 20013
800-HELP NOW
www.redcross.org

CARE
151 Ellis Street
Atlanta, GA 30303
800-521-CARE
www.care.org

CATHOLIC RELIEF SERVICES
Tsunami Emergency
P.O. Box 17090
Baltimore, Md. 21203-7090
800-736-3467
www.catholicrelief.org

DIRECT RELIEF INTERNATIONAL
27 South La Patera Lane
Santa Barbara, Calif. 93117
805-964-4767
www.directrelief.org

DOCTORS WITHOUT BORDERS
P.O. Box 1856
Merrifield, Va. 22116-8056
888-392-0392
www.doctorswithoutborders.org

EPISCOPAL RELIEF AND DEVELOPMENT
Emergency Fund
P. O. Box 12043
Newark, NJ 07101
800-334-7626
www.er-d.org

INTERNATIONAL FEDERATION OF RED CROSS/RED CRESCENT
www.ifrc.org

INTERNATIONAL MEDICAL CORPS
Earthquake/Tsunami Relief
1919 Santa Monica Boulevard, Suite 300
Santa Monica, Calif. 90404
800-481-4462
www.imcworldwide.org

INTERNATIONAL ORTHODOX CHRISTIAN CHARITIES
Asia Disaster Response
P.O. Box 630225
Baltimore, MD 21263-0225
877-803-4622
www.iocc.org

ISLAMIC RELIEF USA
Southeast Asia Earthquake Emergency
P.O. Box 6098
Burbank, Calif. 91510
888-479-4968
www.irw.org/asiaquake

MERCY CORPS
Southeast Asia Earthquake Response
Dept. W
P.O. Box 2669
Portland, Ore. 97208
800-852-2100
www.mercycorps.org

OPERATION USA
8320 Melrose Avenue, Suite 200
Los Angles, Calif. 90069
800-678-7255
www.opusa.org

OXFAM AMERICA
Donor Services Department
26 West Street
Boston, MA 12111-1206
800-77-OXFAM
www.oxfamamerica.org

SAVE THE CHILDREN
Asia Earthquake/Tidal Wave Relief Fund
54 Wilton Road
Westport, Conn. 06880
800-728-3843
www.savethechildren.org

UNICEF
General Emergency Fund
333 E. 38th Street
New York, NY 10016
800-4-UNICEF
www.unicef.org

Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company | Home | Privacy Policy | Search | Corrections | RSS | Help | Back to Top

Israel was one of the first nations to respond with an airlift of medical and other relief personnel and supplies, but only a single news medium has carried the story.

The U.S. sent aid through military channels on Monday.
 

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Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 12-28-2004, 09:14 PM:
 
With these third world fishing village countries that were hit, it's doubtful anyone knew exactly how many people were there to begin with. We'll probably never get an exact count.

I heard earlier this afternoon that twelve US C-130s full of supplies have been sent so far, as well as several Navy P-3 Orion surveillance planes to assist in search and rescue operations.

And you beat me to the punch, Gerard! Good info. Thank you.

And thank you for your comments, David.
 

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Posted by Gerard S. Cohen (Member # 994) on 12-28-2004, 09:57 PM:
 
Here's some details of the aid already sent:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/28/politics/28aid.html

Supplies and relief workers were being flown to the area from nations including Britain, France, Spain, Sweden, Finland, Russia, Denmark, Austria, Hungary, Greece, Australia, Italy and Japan. In the United States, Secretary of State Colin L. Powell and other State Department officials said that at least $15 million in aid would be provided, in cash or donated supplies, with $4 million going directly to the International Red Cross.

"We will do everything we can to immediately help," Mr. Powell said. "This is, indeed, an international tragedy."

The Pentagon on Monday dispatched three Navy P-3 Orion reconnaissance planes from Kadena Air Base in Japan to Thailand to assist in search-and-rescue operations. In addition, the Air Force sent as many as eight C-130 Hercules transport planes, loaded with tents, food, clothing and other supplies, from Yokota Air Base in Japan to Thailand, according to a spokesman for the United States Pacific Command in Hawaii, Lt. Col. William Bigelow. As of late Monday, one military official said the United States was considering assigning several thousand American troops to the effort.

The greatest need appeared to be in Sri Lanka, where the government officially requested the assistance of the United States and other nations and organizations. In Sri Lanka alone, perhaps a million are homeless, relief officials said.

Tents, blankets, water purification tablets, flour, rice, antibiotics, syringes, ready-to-eat meals and portable generators are all needed immediately, a Sri Lankan government statement said. In the weeks ahead, assistance will also be needed to rebuild housing, roads, utilities and government facilities.

The United Nations is helping coordinate the response there, and called a meeting on Monday morning in the capital, Colombo, that was attended by dozens of leaders of relief agencies, officials said. The United Nations promised to immediately deliver nearly 40,000 pieces of plastic sheeting or plastic mats, as well as rope, and other relief packages consisting of cooking sets, mosquito nets and clothing, enough to assist about 2,000 families

.................................................................

The scope of the under-reported Israeli aid, among the first to be sent, is listed here:
http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/45884734/critiques/Israeli_Aid3_Unreported.asp

When disaster strikes anywhere in the world, Israelis can be counted on to help. So it's no surprise that within hours of the devastating tsunami in the Indian Ocean, the following humanitarian missions all departed from the tiny Jewish state:

IDF rescue team on its way to Sri Lanka

● The Israeli organization Latet ('To Give') filled a jumbo jet with 18 tons of supplies.

● A medical team headed by four doctors from Jerusalem's Hadassah Hospital arrived in Sri Lanka on Monday night (Dec. 27), carrying medicine and baby food. The doctors specialize in rescue operations, trauma and pediatrics.

● An IDF rescue team is now on its way to Sri Lanka with 80 tons of aid material, including 10,000 blankets, tents, nylon sheeting and water containers, all contributed by the IDF.

● A ZAKA rescue-and-recovery team arrived in the disaster areas Monday night, armed with its specialized equipment for identifying bodies.

● A Health Ministry contingent left for Thailand on Monday night to aid in rescue efforts. The group includes doctors, nurses and four members of the IDF.

● Israel has also offered its assistance to India ― a search-and-rescue team from the Home Front Command, as well as consignments of food and medicine.

Yet, with the exception of UPI (as of this writing - Wed. 4pm EST), none of the major news outlets have dedicated an article to this remarkable Israeli humanitarian effort. This, despite the fact that the IDF sent all Israel-based journalists a press release Monday evening (Dec. 27), inviting them to the airport to cover the departure of one IDF group.

This is all the more surprising given the fact that the major news agencies have entire teams of reporters in Israel, who submit at least one 'Israel-article' each day.

So what did the Associated Press send out today to its 15,000 subscribing news agencies? A dreary story about the construction of a new IDF base near Jenin. AP sarcastically remarked in this 'news' story that the base's 'elaborate color scheme and landscaping shows that the army is not planning to pull its forces out of the area anytime soon.'

The lack of media interest in this Israeli humanitarian effort means that Israeli benevolence toward other peoples is not fairly conveyed to the western world. Perhaps if it were conveyed, observers would come to understand something else ― that Israel's response to Palestinian violence is also motivated by the highest ethical concern for all human life, and is not (as the media so often portray it) driven by an oppressive, mean-spirited national ethos...
 

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Posted by Barry Martin (Member # 1376) on 12-29-2004, 12:13 AM:
 
In regards to the lack of warning system, I was half awake after an all-nighter the other day and caught some news program with a scientist in front of a tsunami simulator in a college in Colorado who said a warning system for the Indian Ocean was suggested recently but had only been in the works for 9 months and that it takes about a year to get one up and running. Couldn't find anything online to link to in order to backup this statement, anyone hear something like this? And if it's true, talk about your "day late, dollar short" scenarios.
 

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Posted by David Buckley (Member # 2600) on 12-29-2004, 12:47 AM:
 
Heck, Joe must be asleep - I can still post to this thread.

Heres a bit from http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/88760F73-3D19-41A9-A762-D0118CC1B8CC.htm, its agency copy, it is available at a number of other places but only by subscription.

"It's just like moving an enormous paddle at the bottom of the sea," said David Booth, a seismologist at the British Geological Survey. "A big column of water has moved, we're talking about billions of tons. This is an enormous disturbance."

Moving at about 800kph the waves took more than two hours to reach Sri Lanka, where the human toll has been horrific, and longer to spread to India and the east coast of Africa.

And because such tidal waves rarely occur in the Indian Ocean, there is no system in place to warn coastal communities they are about to be hit, such as exists in the Pacific, Booth said.

"With 20-20 vision of hindsight, that will be reconsidered," he said.

An Australian scientist had suggested in September that an Indian Ocean warning system be set up, but it takes a year to create one.

Also, those living along the Indian Ocean's shores were less likely than Pacific coastal dwellers to know the warning signs of an impending tidal wave - water receding unusually fast and far from the shore, Booth said.
 

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Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 12-29-2004, 08:58 AM:
 

quote: David Buckley

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water receding unusually fast and far from the shore, Booth said

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That's interesting. I'll keep that in mind next time I'm at the beach.
 

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Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 12-29-2004, 02:50 PM:
 
We have many hard working friends that live in the effected regions and communications have been tough. Cultural, religous, government issues of the area should take a secondary role while taking care of the needs of the survivors and their future stability...
 

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Posted by Kyle McEachern (Member # 2250) on 12-29-2004, 08:44 PM:
 
CNN has the warning side of things covered. From their website today...(From http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/science/12/29/quake.alert.system.reut/index.html):



Screw sirens and TV/radio announcements...just an email and you're good to go!
 

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Posted by David Yauch (Member # 2754) on 12-29-2004, 08:56 PM:
 

quote: Paul Mayer

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Why do you ask? How do you think it should be pronounced? Probably the way I thought it should be pronounced the first time I saw it.

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quote: Barry Martin

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a scientist in front of a tsunami simulator in a college in Colorado who said a warning system for the Indian Ocean was suggested recently but had only been in the works for 9 months and that it takes about a year to get one up and running.

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A microbarograph can be made for $50 out of parts you have lying around in your workshop.

(I'm working from memory here... I'll have to go dig through 10 years of back-issues to get the exact details.)

Basically, it's made from a few hundred feet of garden hose, a two litre plastic soda bottle, a small submersible water heater and some electronic parts.

The garden hose is laid out on the ground in a radial design like the legs of an octopus. They all connect at the center and lead up to the soda bottle. Inside the bottle is a submersible water heater. A piece of glass tubing is poked through the side of the bottle (and sealed) to make a manometer. An arrangement of optical sensors made from LEDs and photo transistors monitors the level of liquid in the manometer. The submersible heater is turned on by the electronic circuit to heat the water/air inside the manometer tube. Changes in temperature will cause the water level to go up and down. The circuit is tuned so that it uses the heater to keep the water level at the same point in the manometer tube. Calibrating and reading the manometer is simple: Measure the amount of current used by the heater.

A tsunami is created by a gigantic displacement of water. This creates a shock wave in the ocean that pushes or pulls water in or out of its path as it travels. Over the surface of the water, there might not be much to see but there is a HUGE displacement of air as the water moves.

Just before a tsunami arrives, the air pressure starts to fluctuate up and down. The difference may be only a few millibars, if that, but it IS measurable.

When your soda bottle microbarograph starts drawing current you know something's up. According to what I remenber in the article, you have as much as an hour's warning or even more.

For a few million dollars you could put soda bottle microbarographs all along the coast line of Sri Lanka and man them for a year! If something happened out of the ordinary one of the guys could pick up a cell phone (or two-way radio... or whatever) and call-in the authorities to investigate.

With even a half hour's warning a LOT of lives could be saved.

I know... I dramatize. But my point is that it doesn't take gozillions of dollars worth of weather satellites and computers to protect the lives of these people. It only takes the judicious application of brain power.

Speaking of brain power... If you noticed an undersea earthquake of magnitude 9.5 wouldn't you have called somebody? It doesn't take a big stretch of the imagination to understand that a quake that big will undoubtedly touch off a tsunami.

The science is out there. It's in black and white. It's been around for years. (Since at least 1989.) The links to three articles I posted before show it. This is not about LACK of knowledge or technology or resources. It's about the lack of APPLICATION of that knowledge!

Some day I want to build a microbarograph and a seismograph (magnets, Hall Effect sensor, some electronics, 4" plastic pipe and a couple bags of cement) and put them in my back yard. Couple that information up with an electronic weather station that can be bought at virtually any hobby store these days and you've got a weather watcher's paradise!

Regarding donations to the relief fund:
As soon as I get back to campus after the holiday vacation I'll be calling up Sr. Gerri of The Sisters of Mercy. (The order of nuns who founded the college I work at.)

I don't know if they have a disaster relief fund in the works yet but I'm certain they will very soon. May I recommend contacting them?

Sisters of Mercy - Americas

Sisters of Mercy - International (Ireland)

My donations to the relief fund will be going to them. You can pretty much guarantee the money will end up in the area(s) where it's really needed and not in the pocket of some "administrator" who claims 50% of the money raised as his "salary".
 

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Posted by Barry Martin (Member # 1376) on 12-30-2004, 01:44 AM:
 
Randy, by any chance is your father Richard Dean Anderson? Thanks for all the info, I posted that more to question whether anyone knows if the system was in works when the quake struck or if it still had not been begun. Either way, like you said, the knowledge is just not being applied and as a result 6 Springfield, Vermont's worth of people are dead and more are probably coming from the diseases, hunger, and displacement this will cause.
 

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Posted by David Buckley (Member # 2600) on 12-30-2004, 02:35 AM:
 

quote: Randy Stankey

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Speaking of brain power... If you noticed an undersea earthquake of magnitude 9.5 wouldn't you have called somebody? It doesn't take a big stretch of the imagination to understand that a quake that big will undoubtedly touch off a tsunami.

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http://mathaba.net/x.htm?http://mathaba.net/0_index.shtml?x=90908

Extract:

Not until the deadly wave hit Sri Lanka and the scientists in [the Pacific Tsunami Warning Center in] Honolulu saw news reports of the damage there did they recognize what was happening.

"Then we knew there was something moving across the Indian Ocean," said Dr. Charles McCreery, the center's director.

"We wanted to try to do something, but without a plan in place then, it was not an effective way to issue a warning, or to have it acted upon," Dr. McCreery said. "There would have still been some time - not a lot of time, but some time - if there was something that could be done in Madagascar, or on the coast of Africa."

...

One of the few places in the Indian Ocean that got the message of the quake was Diego Garcia, a speck of an island with a United States Navy base, because the Pacific warning center's contact list includes the Navy. Finding the appropriate people in Sri Lanka or India was harder.

The experts knew they were set up for the wrong ocean, but over a holiday weekend, Dr. Kong said, "it's tough to find contact information."

"I think they made their best efforts to contact as many people they thought they could get to," she said. After pushing the button to send out the initial warning to contacts in the Pacific, where about 90 percent of the tsunamis are observed, "they're trying to think of personally who might they call, who might then know who to call."

It must be pretrry horrible to know what is going on, in advance, and be powerless to even get the warning out...
 

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Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 12-30-2004, 11:11 AM:
 
It's stll getting worse: estimated deaths are 114-120,000 this morning, and more are likely to die from disease.
 

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Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 12-30-2004, 11:33 AM:
 
As a side note, it seems the Indian ocean isn't the only place where tsunami warning systems are less than adequate. Apparently the Atlantic ocean is in danger of a nice sized wave too if a certain active volcano on the canary islands erupts and dislodges a gigantic rock that's currently hanging on by a thread.

If we're going to start building tsunami warning systems, that seems like a good place to start.

Link
A tsunami wave higher than any in recorded history threatens to ravage the US coastline in the aftermath of a volcanic eruption in the Canary Islands, UK and US scientists will report today. Locations on both African and European Atlantic coastlines - including Britain - are also thought to be at risk.

The new research, a collaboration between Dr. Simon Day of the Benfield Greig Hazard Research Centre at UCL and Dr. Steven Ward of the University of California, reveals the extent and size of the mega-tsunami, the consequence of a giant landslide that may be triggered by a future eruption of the Cumbre Vieja volcano.

Previous research by Simon Day and colleagues predicted that a future eruption would be likely to cause a landslide on the western flank of Cumbre Vieja. A block of rock approximately twice the volume of the Isle of Man would break off, travelling into the sea at a speed of up to 350 kilometres per hour. The disintegration of the rock, this earlier study predicted, would produce a debris avalanche deposit extending 60 kilometres from the island. The energy released by the collapse would be equal to the electricity consumption of the entire United States in half a year.

The new model - which provides further insights into the consequences of the collapse - predicts that the landslide would create an exceptionally large tsunami with the capability to travel great distances and reaching speeds of up to 800 kilometres per hour. Immediately after Cumbre Vieja's collapse a dome of water 900 metres high and tens of kilometres wide will form only to collapse and rebound. As the landslide continues to move underwater a series of wave crests and troughs are produced which soon develop into a tsumani 'wave train' which fuels the waves progress. After only 10 minutes, the model predicts, the tsunami will have moved a distance of almost 250 kilometres.

The greatest effects are predicted to occur north, west and south of the Canaries. On the West Saharan shore waves are expected to reach heights of 100 metres from crest to trough and on the north coast of Brazil waves over 40 metres high are anticipated. Florida and the Caribbean, the final destinations in the North Atlantic to be affected by the tsunami, will have to brace themselves for receiving 50 metre high waves - higher than Nelson's column in London, some 8 to 9 hours after the landslide. Towards Europe waves heights will be smaller, but substantial tsunami waves will hit the Atlantic coasts of Britain, Spain Portugal and France.

For tsunamis striking flat-lying coastline regions such as Florida, calculating the inundation distance - the extent to which water penetrates inland taking the form of fast moving floods after waves break - is crucial to assessing potential damage. Dr. Day and his colleagues estimate inundation distances in the region of several kilometres from the coast. Accurate estimates of the scale of economic loss are yet to be made but are thought to be in the multi trillion USD range.

Placing the results of the Cumbre Vieja model in its wider context, Dr Simon Day, and Post-doctoral Research Fellow at UCL, said:

'Anyone planning a holiday to the Canary Islands and the islanders themselves need not panic. Cumbre Vieja is not errupting so the short-term and medium-term risks are negligable.'

Dr Day continued:

' The collapse will occur during some future eruption after days or weeks of precursory deformation and earthquakes. An effective earthquake monitoring system could provide advanced warning of a likely collapse and allow early emergency management organisations a valuable window of time in which to plan and respond.’

' Eruptions of Cumbre Vieja occur at intervals of decades to a century or so and there may be a number of eruptions before its collapse. Although the year to year probability of a collapse is therefore low, the resulting tsunami would be a major disaster with indirect effects around the world. Cumbre Vieja needs to monitored closely for any signs of impending volcanic activity and for the deformation that would precede collapse.'
 

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Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 12-30-2004, 01:02 PM:
 
***This post has been modified from its original version. It has been formatted to fit your screen, edited for content, and edited to run in the nerves alloted.***

It just keeps getting worse! In my opinion, in a situation as extreme as this, they should move all the survivors as far inland as possible and treat them, and GET THE HELL OFF of the beach! Forget about rebuilding or looking for people, it's time to just face the facts, leave the coast for a while and let everything rot for a few months on its own. If you start sending supplies to the coastal areas, those people are just going to stay there and get sick from disease. If you sent aid workers into those areas, they're going to get sick and bring it back with them inland or even back to their home countries. Things could get really ugly once disease starts breaking out.

I've seen lots of ameture video of this. CROWDS of people on the beach - many of them children - just standing there and watching the thing coming!! The shore didn't "retract" before the wave as some have said. Just this huge thing came rolling in. It's eerily frightening to hear the "oohs" and "aahs" turn into screams of terror. Many of the videos show people getting swept away right before your eyes. Too much for me to take at times.

Don't want to straddle the political fence, |yet I wish to share my thoughts as others do who straddle on the other side of the fence| but the amount of aid we're sending disappoints me. I saw the president in a press conference yesterday (from the "western whitehouse" in crawford ) and other than bouncing back and forth between saying 35 Million and 35 Billion, he insisted that it's a sufficient amount of aid. Numbers:

Promised Aid to Tsunami Victims: $35 million
Cost of |a presidential| "inauguration": $45 million
Est. cost for one day of |a typical| "war" |adjusted for inflation|: $175 million
|Cost of aid to Florida Hurricane victims including counties such as miami/dade which recieved minimal damage while FEMA still refuses to aid many hard-hit victims|: $3 Billion
Turning a natural disaster into a bullet-train for public relations: PRICELESS

There are some things you can't buy...

=TMP=

[ 12-30-2004, 06:48 PM: Message edited by: Thomas Procyk ]
 

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Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 12-30-2004, 01:15 PM:
 
Tom....Australia is donating $27,000,000, not bad for a country of 21 million. I just finishing talking to a client who was stuck out of town for four days due to disrupted air travel in the region. His area was hit by the waves; his family is fine but the area to and from work is like a war zone.
 

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Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 12-30-2004, 01:49 PM:
 

quote:

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Don't want to straddle the political fence,

---

THEN DON'T HIT THE FUCKING 'ADD REPLY' BUTTON!

This is probably the worst natural disaster in a hundred years if not longer, and we're not even going to be able to talk about it here because some idiots among us can't help but find a way to turn the discussion into a flame war against Bush! WTF???

Feel free to lock the thread, mods.

Thanks.

Mark
 

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Posted by Jeremy Fuentes (Member # 2135) on 12-30-2004, 02:03 PM:
 
I dont think his comments are anything bad, but I'm not a moderator. Now your whole reply, with the exception of the first sentence about the natural disasters, is pretty much pointless and youre pretty much starting trouble in a place where there doesnt need to be any. Now, back on topic (since I sound like a hypocrite telling Mark his post is pointless)...people dying sucks. And lets try and stay focused on the topic at hand children.
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 12-30-2004, 02:10 PM:
 
Well if we are only sending $35 mil, that's pretty disappointing. I would think the Prez could go on TV and ask every man woman and child in the country to send a buck, that'd be almost 300 million right there. Then Bill Gates could kick in another half a billion.

However, private donations and other help will very likely be huge, whatever the government decides to send.
 

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Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 12-30-2004, 02:14 PM:
 
What is an acceptable number to you today Tom? $500M? $2B? $20B? How about a blank check? To whom should the check be made out? Who's going to make sure the money goes where it's needed and doesn't line the pockets of crooked contractors and politicians?

The administration has said repeatedly that this is a down payment and there will be MUCH more to come once there's a concrete plan for dealing with this tragedy.

Will this be that last post in this thread?
 

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Posted by Jeremy Fuentes (Member # 2135) on 12-30-2004, 02:17 PM:
 
No it wont. Tsunamis are stupid.

Edit: I admit I sound childish but I'm trying to keep this on topic in case someone has something interesting to add to it. Self-appointed thread police..me? No, but I know someone's thinking it.
 

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Posted by David Buckley (Member # 2600) on 12-30-2004, 04:10 PM:
 
I'm non-American, and not in America, so I offer this suggestion:

quote: Mark J. Marshall

---

... because some idiots among us can't help but find a way to turn the discussion into a flame war against Bush! WTF???

---

Take a named president out of the equation then. The only mention of said named president was the second line of the spoof. Lets say it didnt matter who won the last election. Whoever won, there would be a presidential inaguration. It would not be cheap. The numbers would be the similar.

Now its not a bash at any named individual. Political divide bridged.

EDIT: Content removed that although I believe to be accurate, could be read (and I think Phil did ) to give completely the wrong impression. For those who saw it, apologies if I caused offense, that was not my intention, and in hindsight, perhaps I should not have said it.

[ 12-30-2004, 10:12 PM: Message edited by: David Buckley ]
 

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 12-30-2004, 04:50 PM:
 

quote: Richard Fowler

---

Australia is donating $27,000,000, not bad for a country of 21 million.

---

quote: David Stambaugh

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What is an acceptable number to you today Tom? $500M? $2B? $20B? How about a blank check? To whom should the check be made out? Who's going to make sure the money goes where it's needed and doesn't line the pockets of crooked contractors and politicians?

---

I may not be Tom, but I'd like to comment on this.

I think a blank cheque is pretty much what's needed; that doesn't mean that an infinitely large amount has to be spent. I have no idea how much needs to be spent, but if the relief workers on the ground say it is needed, and needed now, then I think they should get it. Charities can raise money, but it takes time; governments can provide funding quickly. Governments raise money by taxation of large numbers of people; they can raise very large amounts by charging only a small amount to each of those people.

There are certain tasks which need to be undertaken urgently, mainly disease prevention measures, the burial or cremation of the dead, and provision of clean drinking water for example. Just about anything that those on the ground say is needed to do this should be provided, and governments should fund it.

Those who are sitting in offices in London or New York or Tokyo or whereever are not the ones who can say what is needed. I would give those on the ground just abount anything that they consider is needed urgently, and allow them to ensure that it is used effectively.

There is a time for private fund-raising, and for disussion of how such funds should be spent, but that's a longer term issue, it won't help somebody to get clean drinking water today, rather than tomorrow.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 12-30-2004, 06:02 PM:
 
Let's clear the political question up here.

If your comment (or link/reference) uses any specific names and could be considered "bashing" to Bush or Kerry or a political party, we will delete it from this point on. It is fine to say "I am disappointed with the support the US is giving", but please leave it at that. Continual attempts to push the line on political discussions will be a simple old fashioned removal from the forums. Please find another forum to get your anti-Bush, anti-Democrat or anti-whatever feelings out on.

Another way of looking at it...if I can read your post and figure out who you voted for, it's gonna get deleted.

So to those who have emailed regarding this, is that a fairly easy way to check yourselves?
 

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Posted by Ron Yost (Member # 1850) on 12-30-2004, 06:37 PM:
 
In that part of the world there's little that can be done to assure every dime (or every million) goes where it should. May as well stop expecting it right now. 'Accountability' has a whole different meaning (or little meaning at all) in much of the world, I'm afraid.

Liberal amounts of "backsheesh" need to be passed around to the 'right' people (in a long chain, sometimes) to get things done. It's been that way for many centuries. 'Officials' in some countries will willingly let their people starve to death if their personal coffers aren't being enriched in just the right manner, which often takes much time to figure out. The word inefficient doesn't come close to describing the 'operating systems' in a lot of the world.

The 'overhead' can be high .. even deadly, for relief-workers attempting to do only good, as has been the case many times in the past. Things just work differently, and far, far more slowly .. even under 'normal' conditions.

I say give all we can and hope -some- of it helps those desperate people who need it most, without expecting a thing in return. We'll only be disappointed when we don't get outpourings of gratitude (and we probably won't). Not much else that can be done, in my view, as we're not going to change their 'systems', as primitive and peculiar as they are.

Ron Yost
 

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Posted by Mark Hajducki (Member # 1732) on 12-30-2004, 07:02 PM:
 
Maps showing the location of the earthquake (and associated aftershocks) that resulted in the tsunami.


Created using the earthquake mapping service provided by The University of Edinburgh (School of Geosciences) this allows mapping of resent and past earthquakes.
http://www.geo.ed.ac.uk/quakes/quakes.html
 

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Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 12-30-2004, 07:13 PM:
 

quote: David Stambaugh

---

What is an acceptable number to you today Tom? $500M? $2B? $20B? How about a blank check? To whom should the check be made out? Who's going to make sure the money goes where it's needed and doesn't line the pockets of crooked contractors and politicians?

---

quote:

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" So far, the world community has pledged $250 million, with Spain offering the largest single contribution - $68 million.

Japan pledged $30 million, Britain $29 million, Australia $27.6 million and France $20 million. Many smaller nations sent what they could, including shipments of water and teams of medical professionals.

Cash donations also have been pouring in from individuals. And U.S. corporations have been generous, in particular New York's Pfizer drug company, which gave $10 million in cash and $25 million worth of medicines to the relief effort."

---

I DO applaude the increased reliefe EFFORTS, including the use of our sattelites to asssess the damage and organizing charities so that there's no trouble with people starting phony ones like after September 11th. In the strategic department, this country is unmatched. I'm also not saying that this should turn into a bidding war of which country can give the most money. Just that those who can, should.

Didn't mean to "flair up" anybody on here. Just thought I'd bring something to the table other than repeating the fact that "this is indeed a horrible tragedy and sad that many lives were lost." We all know that already.

=TMP=
 

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Posted by Gerard S. Cohen (Member # 994) on 12-30-2004, 07:18 PM:
 
The best reporting I have seen, covering global responses to the needs for disaster relief for the twelve nations stricken by the earthquake/tsunami disaster, has come from the BBC World news,carried by PBS-TV in the NJ-NY area.

Second best, but with added historical perspective by Margaret Warner (subbing for Jim Lehrer who's on vacation)leading a round table discussion with historians and political analysts, has been the McNeil-Lehrer News Hour on PBS-TV.

Can anyone explain why the Indian Prime Minister rejected international aid, saying "India can take care of its own?"
Was he being generous, suggesting the aid should go to even more needy countries? Or was he uninformed of the 7,500 Indian dead
(and the number rising?) I've seen videos of coastal Indian survivors complaining that the local politicos visit for photo ops but do not bring help. And a Western reporter saying the PM
flew over the coast but his plane was "unable to land." Does anyone know what's going on?

My wife and I again contributed, this time to OXFAM AMERICA ( www.oxfamamerica.org ), after watching an interview with a couple of their spokespersons and reading their website. They've been working for years in the affected countries, have personnel and supplies stored on the ground, and have been combatting the local tropical diseases for a long time.
 

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Posted by David Buckley (Member # 2600) on 12-30-2004, 07:51 PM:
 

quote: Thomas Procyk

---

... that's exactly why I found it especially perplexing that the President kept saying "What we need to do is send CASH..."

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quote: Gerard S. Cohen

---

The best reporting I have seen, covering global responses to the needs for disaster relief for the twelve nations stricken by the earthquake/tsunami disaster, has come from the BBC World news,carried by PBS-TV in the NJ-NY area.

---

quote: Gerard S. Cohen

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Can anyone explain why the Indian Prime Minister rejected international aid, saying "India can take care of its own?"

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You are aware the Indian government has stumped up $110m or so for internal aid, and another $20m for neigbouring countries? They are quite big numbers. And although the Indian death toll is bad, it's nothing like other disasters India has faced, some of which it has been only to happy to accept aid for.

You could at this point get cynical, and suggest that if India doesnt need to, they dont want to have to say "thanks" to another country (or countries) for helping them out if they dont really need help, these things can come back when a favour needs to be repaid. India is not in everyones happy list at the moment. The world is an ugly place. (that last statement is not cynical)
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 12-30-2004, 08:00 PM:
 
So David... Are you really that **deleted by moderator** and that big of **deleted by moderator**? **deleted by moderator** and STOP telling the generous US how to help. I for one, am tired of seeing your un-enlightened posts here.

In the last year, WE in the US have contributed billions... over 40% of ALL the help to those less fortunate than us in the world.

GO to some political site and yap! <--**Comment highly approved of by moderator**

[ 12-30-2004, 08:35 PM: Message edited by: Joe Redifer ]
 

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Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 12-30-2004, 08:28 PM:
 
Phil, presumably your comments were not meant for me. j/k.

I totally agree that if all you hear from a news report is "Country X pledged $35M in relief assistance", it sounds ridiculously, laughably small. Especially coming from a relatively wealthy country. But it's not the whole story. It's been, what, only 4 days since the tsunami, and they're still trying to assess the damage. The very immediate need is for basic supplies and temporary housing. That all takes time to get going. It doesn't happen overnight. My heart goes out to the victims of this catastrophe, but I think it's prudent to give the International Red Cross, United Nations, and whoever else is directly involved in providing assistance the time they need to set this up so the assistance goes where it's supposed to go.

I seriously doubt that the citizens of the US will have ANYTHING to be ashamed of in terms of the assistance and resources we provide, and for which we expect nothing in return except the assurance that our largess goes where it's needed.
 

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Posted by David Buckley (Member # 2600) on 12-30-2004, 08:29 PM:
 
Thanks, Phil, very enlightening.

What is your problem? I get the feeling you think I'm criticizing, but I'm not - I'm explaining. Ask a qustion I know the answer to, I'll offer it.

There is a big difference between politics and economics. Economics transcends politics. Its how the world works.

For the avoidence of doubt - I'm not telling the USA how to help, and as I've said before, I like Americans and America. And America is stepping up to the plate and helping, as everyone knows it would.

And yes, Americans are generous - I dont know where your 40% figure comes from, but it doesnt surprise me.
 

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Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 12-30-2004, 09:16 PM:
 

quote: David Stambaugh

---

I seriously doubt that the citizens of the US will have ANYTHING to be ashamed of in terms of the assistance and resources we provide, and for which we expect nothing in return except the assurance that our largess goes where it's needed.

---

AMEN! I think I can attribute everyone's edgyness to the fact that this thing actually caused the whole planet to change its course!

Quake may have altered Earth's rotation
Published: December 28, 2004, 6:10 PM PST
By Reuters

The deadly Asian earthquake may have permanently accelerated the Earth's rotation--shortening days by a fraction of a second--and caused the planet to wobble on its axis, U.S. scientists said Tuesday.

Richard Gross, a geophysicist with NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in California, theorized that a shift of mass toward the Earth's center during the quake on Sunday caused the planet to spin 3 microseconds, or 3 millionths of a second, faster and to tilt about an inch on its axis.

When one huge tectonic plate beneath the Indian Ocean was forced below the edge of another "it had the effect of making the Earth more compact and spinning faster," Gross said.

Gross said changes predicted by his model probably are too minuscule to be detected by a global positioning satellite network that routinely measures changes in Earth's spin, but said the data may reveal a slight wobble.

The Earth's poles travel a circular path that normally varies by about 33 feet, so an added wobble of an inch is unlikely to cause long-term effects, he said.

"That continual motion is just used to changing," Gross said. "The rotation is not actually that precise. The Earth does slow down and change its rate of rotation."

When those tiny variations accumulate, planetary scientists must add a "leap second" to the end of a year, something that has not been done in many years, Gross said.

Scientists have long theorized that changes on the Earth's surface such as tide and groundwater shifts and weather could affect its spin but they have not had precise measurements to prove it, Caltech seismologist Hiroo Kanamori said.

"Even for a very large event, the effect is very small," Kanamori said. "It's very difficult to change the rotation rate substantially."

Story Copyright © 2004 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved.

--------------

This makes me wonder if this isn't the start of some geocatastrophicality yet to come. These past couple of years have brought upon some strange weather patterns, and even the glaciers are moving faster. I'm kinda worried....

=TMP=
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 12-30-2004, 09:20 PM:
 

quote: David Buckley

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What is your problem?

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quote: David Stambaugh

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Phil, presumably your comments were not meant for me.

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quote: Phil Hill

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My "problem" is people spouting off about things that they know nothing about... especially when it comes to how generous the US is in helping others.

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quote:

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CRAWFORD, Texas - The United States is pledging $350 million to help tsunami victims, a tenfold increase over its first wave of aid, President Bush announced Friday.

...

The newly announced aid came after some critics claimed that the initial U.S. contribution of $35 million was meager considering the vast wealth of the nation.

...

"We had to wait and see what those needs were," Powell told reporters. "I am not sure 350 is the end number. It is the number we have settled on for now."

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So for those mentioning the need for "at least 1 dollar per person in the U.S. - there ya go.
 

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Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 01-01-2005, 03:01 PM:
 
I guess somebody over there must have read the forums.

=TMP=
 

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Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 02-16-2005, 03:42 PM:
 
I don't think this would be considered cross posting since it is from a non-film website, but please ban me if it is.

A british guy on the scuba forums that I read was on a dive trip during the tsunamis. I thought it was an interesting read.

well guys (and girls),

that was one holiday i would not like to repeat!!!

it all started badly from the start.

Emirates decided to tell us 2 days before they had over booked the hotel and only got it sorted 5 pm the night before we left.

while in Dubai for the stop over my eye started to swell and itch.

when we got to bangkok it was quite swollen and painful, the hospital said i had an ab-sis and it had to be removed (no diving for a week)

after the week was up i went on a liveaboard to the similans, bad vis, no mantas, no whale sharks, lots of sand and fileds of coral damaged by dynamite fishing, i think that the similans are not worthy of a top 10 status and richieleu rock is supposed to be top 3, again no way.

finished the liveaboard on the 23rd and 25th went to Kamala beach, 26th we were doing an island tour:

Phi Phi, Maya Beach and Kai island.

the tour started normally and we went to viking cave then around to Loh Sama Bay (i think that is what it is called)

anyway it is a "U" shapped bay with a little beach in it and a large pinacle island in the "U".

some of our boat went in to feed the fish, i took a couple of scenic shots then put our son (21 months) into a life jacket.

because it was too big i had to pull it in tight and then put one on just for safety and got in.

Daniel hates water and started crying and climbed around my neck so i hung on to the back of the boat until he calmed down.

luckily for us he didn't and then all of a sudden they started shouting everyone back in the boat, i honestly thought there was a large shark and thought great no housing for the camera!

they took Daniel back in and i climbed up and was told there had been an earth quake and tidal waves at Phuket.

i turned around to see the see running so fast back out to sea that it looked like Niagra falls, and the coral came up or rather we went down real fast, i told the boat captain to get us out quick or we would end up on the rocks and get smashed when the water came back in. the thais were fannying around trying to throw ropes to people that were well out of range.

forget them i said (or words to that effect) there are 10 people on the boat now move it.

we started to back out when the wave/swell started to push into the bay around the protecting pinacle.

all i can say is thank got i was not in the water, what i thought was fast going out was nothing compared to it coming in.

the poeple in the water must have washed around the bay well over 100m and out into the open sea in about 5 seconds flat!

the one lucky enough to have put on life jackets were fight for their life to stay above water, i never thought i would see people going under in a life jacket.

we saw 3 people (2 men and a boy) fly past u and we threw a rope the first guy caught i but the other two got pulled off.

we were about to turn the boat around when we saw a small girl float by us in a pool of blood.

i helped to pull her on and the moment she was on our boat time stopped for about 10 seconds.

every person and i mean every person just stood and looked, open jaws, and shear terror.

then time started again when the thai boat girl screammed "oh my god, oh my god someone do something, someone do something!!!"

i was the only person who could move, my wife almost fainted, her friend burst into tears and everyone else stood still.

the girl had been hit by the propellor from a long tail.

she had a cut that looked like someone had got a samurai sword put the flat of the blad to her neck and sliced down to her collar bone and shoulder blade.

it gapped open by at least 1" and everything was on show.

the muscle on the rear of her right thigh had been sliced off to the bone and was flaping around by a small piece of skin and muscle, again there was nothing that you could not see.

there was a large gash to her right shin and the tendons were visible.

a small but deep cut to her bicep.

and a cut where your leg meets you groin that started at the top of her vagina and disspapeared around to her buttocks.

up until this point if a TV documentry about operations was on i woukd change channels as i felt physically sick!

i grabbed my t shirt and tied it around her thigh/groin.

i used my sons shorts on her shin and another t shirt on her thigh.

i used a towel and roled it up and got someone to press it in to her shoulder to close the wound.

after what seemed like a couple of minutes there was still loads of blood and when i looked further she had a 4 " gash in the back of her head, and it looked like it was through the bone.

i got another towel and put that on her head.

i told the boat to go to the nearest hospital as she was dieing, but they wanted to get more people, "forget them" i said "there are plenty of boats to get them, she is going to die!"

after what seemed like an eternity of arguing they headed to Phi Phi.

when we got there, there was not a lot left, the beach was gone, the land was inches above sea level and the water was running off back into the sea.

people were waving and shouting for help and anything that could float was in the water.

again they tried to discharge their responsibilities by transfering her to a bigger boat, "no way" i said "take her to a hospital now, the closest one go, go, go, go, go!!!

i am not sure if it was the right thing to do, but she had lost a lot of blood and was going into shock so we stopped a dive boat and asked for their oxygen.

to my amazement they had none! we stopped another and they happily passed it over to us.

we set it up and again not knowing what setting, i set it to half and hoped for the best.

we went back to phuket was was in excess of an hour and seemed like 2.

the guy we pulled in was Czech and it turned out the little girl was 9 and in his tour group. he got a good tongue lashing and set to work talking to her and keeping her calm.

i continually checked her but as the boat was bouncing around and there were 2 v6 engines i had no chance of checking her breathing and pulse. i had to rely on eye movement and pinching her toe.

at one point her skin went really cold and clamy and i thought she had died, i had tears in my eyes, i thought she was dieing in my arms, i had to pinch her toe twice to get a movement and then i sighed.

on the way back i said to the boat crew, "have an ambulance standing by at the dock, she is critical!", "yes, yes there is one there".

when we finally got in, there was no ambulance and just a minibus, i was so angry, it was lucky i didn't have a gun otherwise i would have shot the usless f*****s.

we put her in the minibus and went to the hospital, again i had to tell them "flashers, horn, lights just go, go, go!!"

we went past several police bikes and not one offered to escort us.

when we got to the hospital, somehow i managed to pick up and run in, shouting in thai "quick, move", the idiots wanted to put her in a wheel chair.

we got her into an assessment room and i shouted for a doctor, a swedish one came over and i reeled off her injuries, the first thing he said to me was "are you a doctor?", "no just a diver" was my response.

they assessed her wounds and dressed them and then she waiting over 6 hours before they operated.

the next day i went to see her and her father who was the man with the boy (her brother) who was swept away had managed to get to phuket from phi phi.

his english was poor and my czech non existant but i think he realised after a while that i was one of the ones who brought her to hospital.

he said a CT scan was ok and when i pointed to the other wounds and did walking motion wih my fingers he said ok.

so the little girl was going to be OK.

I gave him my email address, but not too sure if they will ever write.

sometimes when people ask me about it it is ok, but other times i just start crying, as that could have easily been me and Daniel, or she could have died in my arms.

i'm going to take some time off work, the UK government have set up a grief clinic/councillor so i might go and see them.

so that is/was my story from the tsunami
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