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Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 01-01-2005, 01:33 AM:
 
For some reason, I've been in the mood for some good sound lately, and I began to wonder: what is the best sound mix ever? I could not agree on one mix, but here are a few of my tops of all time. Many of these I never heard theatrically, but I'm wondering how different they may have been.

-Jurassic Park
-Dick Tracy
-xXx
-Finding Nemo
-Saving Private Ryan
-Twister
-Mission: Impossible

AJG
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 01-01-2005, 01:40 AM:
 
Fritz Lang's _M_
 

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Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 01-01-2005, 01:40 AM:
 
Rollerball (1975)
 

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Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 01-01-2005, 12:01 PM:
 
Please tell me you are joking Scott. I watched M in a theater a few months ago and I had a headache from the sound by the time the movie was over.
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 01-01-2005, 12:20 PM:
 
I'm not joking. The sound design is very impressive, especially considering that it was Lang's first sound film. It's very minimalist, yet also very powerful. The actual sound quality isn't all that great by modern standards, but the use of sound in the film is still amazing. If you got a headache from hearing it, there was something wrong with the presentation that you saw--they were probably playing the mono track in SR or some such nonsense.

Another favorite would be "The Conversation," which has a great mono track which won't blow anyone away with volume, but which is very creative in its use of sound to enhance the film. I haven't seen this (yet) in a theatre, unfortunately.

If you're more interested in something loud and less subtle, I'll suggest something more recent, like "Starship Troopers" (a personal favorite) or "Toy Story 2." I also thought that "American Beauty" sounded awesome when I saw it at the Cinerama Dome in LA (which has a good enough system to make almost anything sound great).
 

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Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 01-01-2005, 12:30 PM:
 
I agree with Scott on American Beauty. It's very quiet, subtle, but haunting. Thomas Newman's score really helps had to that effect. I also like the track on Traffic. It didn't really mess around too much with the full 5.1 system, but it was very gritty, and real in a sense. I also liked the score on that one: very good bass notes. I remember this sounding wonderfull at our theatre when I saw it first.

AJG
 

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Posted by Darren Briggs (Member # 1071) on 01-01-2005, 12:31 PM:
 
I Agree Ameican Beauty is a great mix,
I also think that 'Terminator 2' is great mix, (6 track Dolby A 70mm one)
Also a less noisy film (apart from plane crash!) is 'Castaway'
 

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Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 01-01-2005, 12:47 PM:
 
I think Walter Murch's "Apocalypse Now" 70mm Split Surround mix is often acclaimed to be one of the greatest of all time.
 

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Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 01-01-2005, 02:05 PM:
 
Sound of Music true panned dialogue
 

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Posted by David Yauch (Member # 2754) on 01-01-2005, 02:31 PM:
 
I never paid much attention to sound before I began working at a movie theatre, I wouldn't know if I was listening to a first-run print or a print with bad sound track damage, I just didn't care.

Since I've started at a theatre I would say The Incredibles, LOTR:ROTK, and Phantom of the Opera(whether you like alw's music or not) have all had rather impressive sound mixes.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-01-2005, 03:52 PM:
 
A few off of the top of my head in no particular order:

Moulin Rouge
Toy Story II
U-571
Terminator II (70mm mag)
The Matrix (not the sloppy sequels)
Episode II
What Lies Beneath
Detroit Rock City
The Incredibles
Contact
Die Hard (70mm mag)
The Abyss (70mm mag)
Titanic
The Faculty
Unforgiven
Extreme Measures
 

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Posted by David Favel (Member # 1125) on 01-01-2005, 06:54 PM:
 
Best Sound/Analogue = Chicago
Followed by the depth charges in U-571

Best Digital FOTR
Second, The Incredibles
 

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Posted by Jonathan M. Crist (Member # 413) on 01-01-2005, 11:09 PM:
 
X-Men 2
Hellboy
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 01-02-2005, 02:00 PM:
 
Here are some of my favorites. I apologize that most are "loud" movies, thus perhaps implying my taste in movies is a bit immature.

"American Beauty" (really great music score)
"Dark City"
"Die Hard" (blown away by 70mm show in New York)
"Heat" (best sounding street shootout ever, great plane-by effects at end)
"The Good, The Bad and The Ugly" (the sound mix is bad, but gives the film a wierd, cool quality).
"Fight Club"
"The Incredibles"
"Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade" (70mm Dolby SR mag, best sound mix of trilogy)
"Jurassic Park"
"The Last of the Mohicans" (70mm Dolby mag)
"Magnolia"
"The Matrix"
"Return of the Jedi" (watched it in 70mm, turned me into a surround sound fan)
"Saving Private Ryan"
"Seven"
"Speed"
"Titanic" (70mm DTS)
"Toy Story 2"

I could add a lot more.
 

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Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 01-02-2005, 02:23 PM:
 
I am very suprised that no-one has mentioned AMERICAN GRAFFITTI! Lucas was able to create that wonderful surround montage that we now know as surround sound!

The re-release of The Exorist a few years ago had one of the most detailed tracks that I have ever heard!
 

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Posted by Jennifer Pan (Member # 2035) on 01-02-2005, 02:41 PM:
 
I'm sure I mentioned American Graffiti on another thread about soundtracks...

Best sound mix EVER:

"AMERICAN GRAFFITI"

[ 01-05-2005, 01:25 AM: Message edited by: Jennifer Pan ]
 

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Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 01-02-2005, 03:41 PM:
 
I beleive originally American graffiti was a mono release (if not it would hae been 4 track mag (I have seen a later issue print in that format)
 

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Posted by Jonathan M. Crist (Member # 413) on 01-02-2005, 10:38 PM:
 
The original release of American Graffitti in 1973 was mono only. The picture was shot on a shoestring when Lucas was an unknown and as such there was no extra in the budget for either 70 or 35 mag prints.

The 78 re-issue was Dolby A. And there were only a few of those dolby prints as well. I think a good many of the re-issue prints were mono as well.

I ran both 73 and 78 as a projectionist and I did not think the sound mix of either the original or the re-issue was anything special.
 

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Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 01-02-2005, 11:54 PM:
 
"Jurassic Park" - DTS & Dolby --> A <--!!!! Yeah!
"Phantom Menace" - Blew me away. Much better than Attack of the Clones I thought
"True Lies" - Very engaging mix starting with the first explosion
"Dick Tracy" - 70mm Mag sounded great - even on our theater's crappy sound system. I bet the CDS prints were AWESOME
"Spiderman II" - SDDS-8 done right!

Honorable Mention:
"It Came From Outer Space" - In dual strip Polaroid 3D, with a computer sync'd presentation of the original 3 channel magnetic master, sounded great and maybe not the best mix ever, but... well, it was quite magical. Especially since I was sitting a few seats from Ray Bradbury.
 

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Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 01-03-2005, 01:05 PM:
 
Punch-Drunk Love

AJG
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-03-2005, 06:52 PM:
 
Best sound mix ever?

The Sound of Music

I don't think the current crop of film mixing people are even capable of that sort of mix.

Another excellent mix: 2001: A Space Odyssey

The reissue of American Graffiti did have the "Dolby System" logo as opposed to the later "Dolby Stereo" one.

True Lies did indeed have an excellent mix in 70mm magnetic. Probably the strongest and cleanest mix I've heard ever.

For low budget, give a good listen to Talk Radio. It is very well done without being overstated.

The vast majority of the crap I hear nowadays are basic:

• Dialoge in the Center
• Music out of Left and Right
• Some music and effects out of the surrounds

The surrounds are about the only thing that seems to have gotten better with time. The lack of panned dialog is quite distracting on larger screens. The lack of 5-screen channels is also quite distracting...the sound doesn't come from where you see the action or it over done.
Steve
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 01-03-2005, 07:02 PM:
 
Well Steve what about theaters who don't set up their mains correctly? Obviously all good theaters will have side masking. What if there are panned-dialog flat movies as well as panned-dialog scope movies? As the masking opens, should the 5 channels behind the screen also widen in their position? Otherwise that limits scope movies and would be hella distracting.

Also, are 5 channels behind the screen really enough? 9 would be better. There also needs to be AT LEAST 3 rows of 9 channels behind the screen, because I'm sick of hearing everything come from a common height. I don't know how you can consider any sound mix to be even decent if it all comes from the screen at the same "level".
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 01-03-2005, 07:29 PM:
 
Joe, maybe that's why those "geniuses" over at AMC stuff the surround speakers up the ceiling. There's nothing quite like a big channel of sound in front of you and one on top of your head. Maybe we should start wearing our headphones like this. One earmuff on the face and the other on top of the head. Yeah, that would be way cool!
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 01-03-2005, 07:38 PM:
 
AMC sucks tremendous amounts of ass. All of their theaters should be destroyed and rebuilt as something less annoying like a DMV.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-03-2005, 07:47 PM:
 
Holy Film Sound Batman!

Guttag and I agree on something all the way around......
Sound Of Music, 2001, and True Lies. BTW: True Lies Analog SR mix was also one of the best analog tracks ever put on a 35mm release print.

I will also add that there isn't a Cinematographer on this planet that has the ability to capture the imagery as well as was done in Sound Of Music.

Mark
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 01-03-2005, 08:57 PM:
 
Best Sound Mix ever:

The Mummy starring Brenden Frasier
This movie featured great treble!


 

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Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 01-05-2005, 12:44 AM:
 
While "Graffitti" was in mono, Lucas and his sound engineers were able to create a unique pan and scan.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 01-05-2005, 02:31 AM:
 
Huh?
 

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Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 01-05-2005, 08:36 AM:
 
Double Huh?

The Sound of Music in 70MM Mag had a Great Track, the 35mm 4-Track prints also sounded great too.
Terminator 2 in CDS at the Cinerama Dome sounded fantastic.
Apocalypse Now in 70MM 6-Track Dolby Stereo.
Great Race in 70MM Mag had a fun surround track.
Empire Strikes Back in 70MM 6-Track Dolby Stereo.
 

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Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 01-06-2005, 12:47 AM:
 
Pay attention to American Graffitti, and maybe listen to the 25th Anniversary re-release with the cast and crew interviews.

Even though Graffitti was in mono, listen closely, especially in scenes involving Richard Dryfus wandering around on the streets between the time he was kicked out of his girl friend's car and when he was picked up by the Pharos. Listen how the "surround sound" was created with the background radio broadcast of the Wolfman....then you'll understand.
 

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Posted by Harry Robinson (Member # 265) on 01-06-2005, 11:51 AM:
 
I'm going to have to chime in on this one. As an old fart Cinerama fan, I have to include How the West Was Won. It was the movie that turned me on to Alfred Newman and folk music at the same time.

Saving Private Ryan also has to go on the list.
 

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Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 01-06-2005, 02:03 PM:
 
I saw How The West Was Won in Cinerama at the Cinerama Dome in Hollywood last year, and I thought it sounded ...ok.

Of course what counts for "ok" by today's standards was probably "awesome" back in the day.

I agree on Saving Private Ryan.
 

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Posted by Mark Lensenmayer (Member # 134) on 01-06-2005, 07:13 PM:
 
More from one of the old guys:

MAN BELONGS TO THE EARTH (An older Imax film with a musical track by Jazz musician Don Ellis, with percussion instruments playing different beats in each channel. One of the best uses of multi-channel sound ever.)

Superman (70mm Mag)
Blues Brothers (35mm Mag)
2001 (70mm Mag)
Toot Whistle Plunk and Boom (35mm Mag - My Guilty Pleasure)
The Matrix (35mm Dolby Digital)
Oklahoma (Overture) (70mm Mag)
Fantasia 2000 (Imax) (Specifically POMP AND CIRCUMSTANCE and FIREBIRD)
Nightmare Before Christmas (35mm Dolby Digital)

I regret I was not able to see Apocalypse Now in 70mm. I've heard that is about as good as it gets.
 

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Posted by Ari Nordström (Member # 288) on 01-07-2005, 05:37 AM:
 
"Apocalypse" in 70mm mag split surround was great.
I always liked the "Brainstorm" 70mm mag mix. Maybe not the best mix ever but...
And I have to agree about "Sound of Music" (70mm) and "2001" (70mm).

All of which tell us that either the 70mm mag sound was superior to whatever they can produce today, OR that I'd need to go out more.
 

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Posted by Michael Brown (Member # 890) on 01-09-2005, 09:02 PM:
 
What comes to mind from what i've seen:

Twister (35mm DTS)
Dantes Peak (35mm DTS)
Lost in Space (35mm DTS)
Dark City (35mm Dolby Dig)
The Mask of Zorro (35mm Dolby Dig)
The Thing (70mm Mag)
Toy Story (35mm Dolby Dig)
Mars Attacks!(35mm Dolby Dig)
Congo (35mm DTS)
Jumanj (35mm Dolby Dig)
Jurassic Park 2 (35mm DTS)
Lethal Weapon 4 (35mm Dolby Dig)
Star Trek: Generations (35mm DTS)
 

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Posted by Paul Howard (Member # 1706) on 01-10-2005, 06:12 AM:
 
I think most of you are correct, the newer films tend to be "BY THE BOOK" mixing with nothing outstanding or origional, but
The Incredibles, broke the mold

Star Trek 6, UDC (first 5.1 film i saw in a theater)
True Lies (power and finesse)
Jurassic Park (realistic and terrifying)
Titanic (astounding)
Road to Perdition (subtle and powerful)

My favourite no brainer, noisefest was
Volcano, ok film but very, crazy wrap around mix (the DVD mix is flat compared to theater mix)
 

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Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 01-10-2005, 09:51 AM:
 
If I'm not mistaken, Star Trek 6 was one of the two test films for Dolby Digital, the other being Newsies. And if I'm also not mistaken, those were very VERY limited, and unadvertised engagements as Dolby was testing the format. Where did you see it? Was it advertised in Dolby Digital? Or did you see it in some other format?

I'm also curious to know... since these were test prints, were the soundtracks even mixed in 5.1? Or were they just discrete channel transfers of the four channel mixes?
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 01-10-2005, 10:16 AM:
 
Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country had a Dolby Format 43 split surround mix available on its 70mm Dolby Mag prints. A good number of early 1990's 70mm mag prints featured split surround mixes.

It is possible that Paul saw the show in 5.1, provided if the theater had the proper Dolby cards and wiring done to support the split surround format on 70mm. In the normal baby boom Format 42 configuration the show would have played in mono surround. Some crossover tricks allow the sub-bass and surround channels for Format 42 and Format 43 to co-exist on the same 70mm print.

I don't know which Los Angeles area theater showed "Star Trek VI" in the Dolby Digital test engagement. The El Capitan theater (I think) was the venue used on the test screening of "Newsies." Of other note about "Star Trek" movies and new sound format, "Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home" was the first movie to show off 70mm Dolby SR mag. Two LA area theater featured it, billed as "70mm Dolby Spectral Sound."
 

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Posted by Dean Kollet (Member # 1789) on 01-10-2005, 10:34 AM:
 
I keep going back to Air Force One. I saw it back opening weekend in a theatre in Jacksonville that I think has since closed. It still is probably the best presentation I've ever seen. It was a THX Auditorium, and I think it was back July of '97. I still love listening to the DD in my home.
 

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Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 01-10-2005, 12:26 PM:
 

quote:

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I don't know which Los Angeles area theater showed "Star Trek VI" in Dolby Digital test engagement.

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quote:

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I keep going back to Air Force One. (snippage) I still love listening to the DD in my home.

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quote: Paul Howard

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the enterprise and the other ship captained by Bones flew discreetley into the surround channels.

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quote: Joe Redifer

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The mix on the Twister trailer was better than the Twister movie, by far.

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I noticed it was the same way for "Gone in 60 Seconds." Great trailer both visually and audibly but the movie was nothing impressive. "Twister" may not have had the most impressive sound but you gotta admit that the first time you heard anything in digital it blew you away.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 01-10-2005, 10:07 PM:
 
Actually, the first movies I saw with digital sound didn't really blow me away --at least in terms of bombastic audio fury. I saw "Dick Tracy" in 70mm Cinema Digital Sound at Loews 84th Street Six in New York. A few months later I saw "Edward Scissorhands" in 70mm CDS at the Ziegfeld. The sound on both shows was excellent, but not rib-rattling. At that time, I was still a bit more impressed with the audio on the 70mm Dolby SR mag print of "Born on the Fourth of July" (also seen at the Ziegfeld).

"Jurassic Park" was the first movie with digital sound I saw that blew me away in regards to sheer audio dynamics. But then I picked one hell of a movie theater to watch that flick for the first time: the GCC Northpark #1 in Dallas. 1100 seats. One of the original THX sites. New DTS system installed for the show. Big sound. Deep bass. Yeah buddy.

I watched "JP" at the Northpark several times in the summer of 1993. Part of the entertainment for me in repeat viewings was watching how the audio mix would scare the living shit out of the audience at certain points in the movie. The cut from the baby raptor birth scene to the feeding pit was the best. The cut was punctuated by this loud raptor scream. One viewer jumped so badly on that one he ejected his straw out of his drink cup. Got a pretty good laugh out of that.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 01-10-2005, 10:43 PM:
 
No, Jurassic Park blew me away long before Twister was ever thought of.
 

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Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 01-10-2005, 11:57 PM:
 
Unfortunately, my experiences of JP in the theatres are not remembered. I was a youngin. It makes me sad because it is my favorite movie and I don't remember much about my theatrical viewings. However, the DTS laserdisc STILL blows me away to this day.

As for Twister, at the time, I remember it being quite the amazing mix in DTS. The best experience theatricallly, however, was Saving Private Ryan in DTS. Holy that was incredible. To this day, nothing has quite equaled that experience. Probably never will.

AJG
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 01-11-2005, 12:16 AM:
 
You were a youngin' when Jurassic Park came out? How old are you? 16? Yes, Saving Private Ryan (in Dolby Diigtal) was completely awesome. We also had it in a DTS house, but it sounded like ass. But then again we had a lame-ass tech who knew nothing about sound. (I fixed this issue when Star Wars 1 came out). Yes, this was at that "oriental" theater I used to work at, for those who know me.
 

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Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 01-11-2005, 01:57 AM:
 
For sheer technical skill Hitchcock's Blackmail would have to be on my list. As it was shot using a single system (i.e. picture and optical sound camera in a single unit) camera and no post-production mixing was possible, the 'mixing' all had to be done live during each take and could not be changed afterwards. One problem was the use of a Czech actress, who spoke virtually no English, playing a Londoner. That wasn't a problem when the film was originally planned as a silent, but became one when the plans were changed. Her lines had to be dubbed, live, off stage by another actress. Her lip sync is near perfect throughout the final film, and the dialogue no more stagey than in many other early '30s stuff. As a film the silent version shot alongside it is vastly better, but the talkie version is still pretty amazing given the primitive technology and huge logistical problems.
 

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Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 01-11-2005, 03:17 AM:
 

quote: Joe Redifer

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You were a youngin' when Jurassic Park came out? How old are you? 16?

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quote: Martin Brooks

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West Side Story in its original Todd-AO presentation at the Rivoli.

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quote: Joe Redifer

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And nothing draws the crowds more than advertising "Todd-AO". What's next? Fred-GS?

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...or Lucas-BS ( ) ?
 

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Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 01-24-2007, 11:13 PM:
 

It has been 733 days since the last post.

 

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Posted by Mike Schindler (Member # 1309) on 01-24-2007, 11:13 PM:
 
I thought I'd bring this back, because I watched TERMINATOR 2: JUDGMENT DAY again over the weekend, with Gary Rydstrom's 6.1 mix from a couple years back. I'm always astounded by the absolute perfection of that movie. But in particular, I think the sound mix is the best I've ever heard. It does such a good job of creating a sense of space. It's too bad that Rydstrom isn't designing sound for movies anymore.

So now that a few years have passed since this thread was originated, what are people's thoughts on the best mixes of all time?
 

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Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 01-25-2007, 01:04 AM:
 
I saw a lot of my favorites on previous posts, But Alien is still my favorite film of the genre and the soundtrack is a perfect complement.

Right Stuff was amazing as well, although the film tanked.
 

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Posted by Mark Lensenmayer (Member # 134) on 01-25-2007, 06:59 AM:
 
The mix on PAN'S LABYRINTH is one of the best I've ever heard. Some very creative use of both deep bass and surrounds. Sound is a very important part of this film.
 

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Posted by Cameron Glendinning (Member # 3516) on 01-25-2007, 09:01 PM:
 
Favorites
"Apocalypse Now" 70mm Split Surround
Titanic
4 track mag of Alien
Fight Club
2001 in 70mm
The Incredibles
Pink Floyds The Wall in 70mm
any of the Harrison Ford as Jack Ryan, Films ie Patriot Games directed by Philip Noice.

As for Jurasic Park, most audience complaints about sound in a film ever award! or the forced to turn up centre channel bullshit award.

Looking forward to watching Pan's Labyrinth, the subs are shaking the bio box.
 

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Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 01-26-2007, 03:56 AM:
 
'Cars' needs a mention here simply for moving the dialogue to left and right channels instead of locking it into centre as is the norm.

Quite refreshing to see (hear).

Most memorable for me:
Raiders Of The Lost Ark in 70mm
True Lies in DTS
Moulin Rouge in SRD
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 01-26-2007, 11:11 PM:
 
"The Fast and the Furious"
"A Few Good Men"
"Boogie Nights"
"Jaws"
"The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring"
 

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Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 01-27-2007, 09:28 AM:
 
The Mission
 

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Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 01-08-2011, 12:19 AM:
 

It has been 1441 days since the last post.

 

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Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 01-08-2011, 12:19 AM:
 
Stumbled upon this old thread somehow, thought I'd dig it up. Honestly though, I can't remember as many memorable mixes on films made since the last post. Lately, I feel like most mixes just aren't as smooth. Inception is one of the better ones that has recently been released, but certainly not as memorable as something like True Lies, Jurassic Park, etc.

Any thoughts?

AJG
 

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Posted by Tom Petrov (Member # 1534) on 01-08-2011, 02:17 AM:
 

quote:

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-Jurassic Park
-Dick Tracy
-xXx
-Finding Nemo
-Saving Private Ryan
-Twister
-Mission: Impossible

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quote: Joe Redifer

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The mix on the Twister trailer was better than the Twister movie, by far.

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I just watched this trailer again recently. No subwoofer.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-08-2011, 04:24 PM:
 
And neither did Amadeus (in 70mm, no less). Damn classical music!
 

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Posted by Robert D Hall (Member # 5674) on 01-08-2011, 04:39 PM:
 
The eagles hell frozen over DVD. It's not a movie but i would have to say it has the best mix iv ever heard. The last song seven bridges road. Blows me away if you listen to the channels one by one every member of the band has his own channl. It's like there standing around you.

When that concert was recorded every input on the soundboard was recorded to it's own track. That gave DTS full control over what every channel would play. And they did a good gob of it.
 

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Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 01-08-2011, 05:45 PM:
 

quote: Joe Redifer

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I just watched this trailer again recently. No subwoofer.

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quote: Aaron Garman

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Is it out there in 5.1? The Blu has it in 2.0, as did the LaserDisc I believe...

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quote: Tom Petrov

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Aaron. Are you talking about the trailer or the whole film?

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quote: Aaron Garman

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The trailer. The film has been easily available in 5.1 since it's release on LaserDisc and DVD

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quote: Aaron Garman

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Not always. For the features, I do believe that is true, but some added content was actually Dolby 2.0. The Star Wars SE box set had the trailers for the SEs on it, in DD but it was only 2 channel. On GoldenEye, the 007 documentary, hosted by a delicious Elizabeth Hurley, was also in DD but 2.0.

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Never ever was the bitstream not 5.1 The source might of been mono or 2.0 or whatever, in that case the channels without sound would not have any audio, but they were always there.

5.1 laserdisc is not the same as Dolby Digital DVD
 

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Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 01-09-2011, 01:59 PM:
 
Tom, don't be such a dumbass. If the signal encoded is 2.0, guess what the bitstream coming out is? 2.0! They do NOT waste encoding space having unused channels with silence (or no signal) as it STILL requires the bandwidth of 5.1, regardless of what is (or is not) recorded on the other channels.

The whole point of encoding alternate content in 2.0 is to SAVE the data space that would otherwise be required by a 5.1 track.

Back on track:

As Sam mentioned, "The Right Stuff" had an awesome sound mix!! The 70mm was incredible and even the 35mm Dolby optical track was impressive.

"Amadeus" was also great in 70mm, I thought the 35mm mix was weak though.
 

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Posted by Tom Petrov (Member # 1534) on 01-09-2011, 03:06 PM:
 

quote:

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Tom, don't be such a dumbass. [Smile] If the signal encoded is 2.0, guess what the bitstream coming out is?

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Do I have to come down there a give you a hair cut? We can make this personal if you want?

quote: Tony Bandiera Jr

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2.0! They do NOT waste encoding space having unused channels with silence (or no signal) as it STILL requires the bandwidth of 5.1, regardless of what is (or is not) recorded on the other channels.

The whole point of encoding alternate content in 2.0 is to SAVE the data space that would otherwise be required by a 5.1 track.

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quote:

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Dolby Digital can be encoded in a variety of channel layouts regardless of the bit rate running in the 384kbps or 448kbps rates usually seen in 5.1 channel tracks on LD and DVD.

For instance the DVD of Roy Orbison: Black and White Night has a Dolby 2.0 track running at 448kbps (in addition to 448kbps DD 5.1 and 1509kbps DTS 5.1). It's pretty unusual to have a DD encoded mono or stereo track running at a bit rate higher than 192kbps, but it can be done. On Blu-ray there's even more room to push the Dolby Digital rate higher, either maxed at 640kbps for regular Dolby Digital and quite a bit higher for Dolby Digital Plus or Dolby TrueHD.

| IP

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quote: Bobby Henderson

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My point is that channel arrangement could be changed despite the fixed bit rate. Dolby Digital can be done in plain mono at that fixed bit rate.

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No, not laserdisc. Laserdisc is always 5.1 for Dolby Digital except for 7 or so 5.1EX discs. The decoder will always be reading 5.1 even if there is nothing recorded in the various channels.

Now if the sound was mono or stereo or Dolby Surround, the single digital tracks or even analog tracks would be used anyways.
 

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Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 01-09-2011, 06:10 PM:
 
I guess that is why my receiver is saying Dolby 2.0 right now as I run the World of 007 documentary.



AJG
 

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Posted by Tom Petrov (Member # 1534) on 01-09-2011, 06:13 PM:
 

quote: Aaron Garman

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I guess that is why my receiver is saying Dolby 2.0 right now as I run the World of 007 documentary.

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quote:

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I guess that is why my receiver is saying Dolby 2.0 right now as I run the World of 007 documentary.

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AJG

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quote:

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I guess that is why my receiver is saying Dolby 2.0 right now as I run the World of 007 documentary.

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AJG

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quote: Aaron Garman

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the documentary starts and reverts to Dolby 2.0.

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quote: John Wilson

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Can't wait for this...

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At least I have the balls to admit when I am wrong.

Trying to start shit, are you?
 

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Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 01-09-2011, 06:48 PM:
 
I'm starting nothing. You do that all on your own Tom and you certainly need no help from me.

You start out pretty much every time with your 'Holier Than Thou' and 'Everything I say is correct and everyone else is wrong attitude which is guaranteed to piss people off. Then, when you're proven wrong you attack me?

Fuck you buddy.

Edit: Now I go back to Tom's post and he's tamed it down. My response was to his original post. Before he changes it again, this is his new and latest response:

quote: Tom Petrov

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At least I have the balls to admit when I am wrong.

Trying to start shit, are you?

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quote: Tom Petrov

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At least I have the balls to admit when I am wrong unlike you who are just trying to start shit.

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Note: no in the original post to lighten the mood, just standard Tom antagonism.
 

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Posted by Tom Petrov (Member # 1534) on 01-09-2011, 06:53 PM:
 

quote: John Wilson

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Fuck you buddy.

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quote: Aaron Garman was the last to post

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Dolby 2.0

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quote:

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Edit: Now I go back to Tom's post and he's tamed it down. My response was to his original post. Before he changes it again, this is his new and latest response:

quote: Tom Petrov At least I have the balls to admit when I am wrong.

Trying to start shit, are you? [thumbsup]

Whereas his original went like this:

quote: Tom Petrov At least I have the balls to admit when I am wrong unlike you who are just trying to start shit. [fu]

Note: no [thumbsup] in the original post to lighten the mood, just standard Tom antagonism

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quote: Joe Redifer

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You were insisting that all LaserDiscs with Dolby Digital had the 5.1 encode, period. When Aaron challenged that line of thinking, you didn't even bat an eye before basically repeating that all LaserDisc Dolby Digital was 5.1, end of story. It wasn't until Aaron came back again that you decided that maybe it might be a good idea to do some actual research on the issue.

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quote: Aaron Garman

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Watched my DVD of Titanic last night, and watched it in DTS. It was excellent, but still didn't seem to have the same oomph I remember in the cinema. Anyone know if the LaserDisc mix (either the AC3 or DTS) was any better. I know the DVD was re-mixed for 6.1 and EX, so obviously it wasn't the same mix.

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quote: Aaron Garman was the last to post

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DTS

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quote: Aaron Garman

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I know the rumor around the campfire was that AC3 LDs were straight ports of theatrical mixes, without any sort of down mix for nearfield or smaller speakers. Also, the DTS mixes were supposedly "cooked" to have more bass, and an overall louder level. Sadly, we may never know what they did. What I do know is that the AC3 mixes on several titles beat the pants off of several DVDs I've heard: Phantom Menace, Mission: Impossible, and Jurassic Park.

Of course, there are weird ones like GoldenEye that have a seemingly bloated LFE track on the AC3 LaserDisc.

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quote: Steve Guttag

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Okay...it should require more than just listing the names of the features...WHY do you think their mix was the best ever? Also, how can one list a dozen or so titles ALL with the best mix? Is the idea that they are somehow equivalently best?

I generally discount those lists that seem to be too much from one decade as those that list them clearly have not seen/heard enough movies to make a fair judge.

I'm curious Jon...what did you really like about The Last of the Mohicans?

The Immortal Beloved...which I saw in the Stag theatre in SDDS-8 also did nothing for me...but point out that the Stag mis-placed LC/RC (and I called them on it). The mix was competent but certainly not in a list of the "best."

Lost in Space? It was loud and clean but nothing too inspiring.

Jurassic Park was just plain painful and again, nothing too inspiring as compared to its contemporaries.

If you want to hear a REALLY good mix...Listen to The Sound of Music.

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quote: Steve Guttag

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I also generally like the mixes by Larry Blake (e.g. Oceans 11). He doesn't emasculate the dialog and always seems to do a good job of the atmospherics.

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I always loved using Ocean's 11 to test my center channel speaker's performance: voices sound so good in that film. It's a movie with great sound, but nothing noticeable or distracting. In that respect, well played.

I have to completely disagree with you on Jurassic Park: it rocks the house! But even quiet scenes are well mixed, like scenes in the control room with good dialogue, the sounds of all the other machines, and chairs moving around. The music comes across beautifully, and never over powering when it shouldn't be like during the scene with Hammond and Ellie eating ice cream. Everyone points out the T-Rex sequence as the most fun, and while it is, I like the gallimimus one better: fun use of the surrounds, nice bass passages, and grisly details as the rex munches on some dead dino. One of Gary Rydstrom's best works.

Speaking of Rydstrom, even though Episode II was not a great film, the sound mix him and Ben Burtt created was possibly the best of any Star Wars film: bombastic at all the right moments, but still subtle when the time was right. The effect of the charges in the asteroid field was AMAZING to hear on a good sound system. I've never been able to re-create what I heard theatrically with the DVD track.

AJG
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-11-2011, 10:59 PM:
 
Yes...for the Sound of Music...definitely the 70mm 6-track mix (we showed it in 70mm at the Uptown Jon...where were you?!?!? I looked )

Jurassic Park is probably the ONLY film that I had to walk out of the theatre on a Studio run-through due to it just sounding bad (painful)...and yes it was at the Uptown for Universal. It was tuned as per Universal too. If that is how it was suppose to sound...it was just didn't do it for me.

I have no problem that people like movies or soundtracks that I don't...that isn't the issue...but when one rambles off a list of titles as being the best...I'm curious as to WHY they think they are the best...it is the only way a thread like this can have meaning. It is a given that these lists are going to be based on the opinion of the person posting.

My favorite Star Wars mix was probably Empire...but I have an affection for that film as the best in the series so the sound may be coming part in parcel.

I really liked the Raiders of the Lost Ark mix too of that era.

Despite only hearing it in Dolby Stereo...Rumble Fish really did a nice job of setting the mood. When Rusty James gets hit in the alley still hurts every time I hear it.

As far as Atmospheric sounds...2001 still reigns king for me. They at least had the balls to have no sound in space. There is a lot of inspiration on the sound of 2001. Heck, despite none of the music being written for the film, that music will forever be associated with that film...pretty powerful stuff.

-Steve
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 01-11-2011, 11:56 PM:
 
Steve, do you know if the 1990 re-release 70mm prints of The Sound of Music had the classic Todd-AO five-up-front channel arrangement? I thought it sounded like that at the Gotham theater but am not entirely sure.

Regarding JP, I remember reading complaints about the movie sounding painful and shrill at certain theaters. There was a write-up in Widescreen Review about it in relation to Dolby Digital, DTS and SDDS making their way into movie theaters. The movie was plenty loud at Northpark, but I didn't consider it harsh or shrill. The loudness was more in the mid-range and really there in the bottom end of the spectrum.

I'm pretty sure my most painful experience of movie volume was on a pre-screening of Goldeneye. Damn that movie was loud! People were running for the volume knob during the opening action sequence (the instance of a metal door exploding off the wall did the trick). The fader on the Dolby CP65 had to be cut back to just under 6 to make things tolerable.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-12-2011, 06:25 AM:
 
Bobby...yes, all of the Sound of Music 70mm were in the "Todd-Ao" mix, that I am aware. I've run at least one of the post 1990 prints and it definitely was 5-screen channels and I believe Dolby-A.

I often will run the leaders to catch the "slate" to determine the mix and often the sync-pop will give an indication of level/balance of the film too.

I had an argument about Hoffa being in stereo surround. I ran the leader for the tech and the slate clearly stated "Split Surround" I won that one!

-Steve
 

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Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 01-12-2011, 10:17 AM:
 
I agree with you Bobby on GoldenEye, at least on the AC3 LaserDisc, the mix is quite shrill at times, especially when running at reference levels.

AJG
 

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Posted by Jonathan Goeldner (Member # 4854) on 01-12-2011, 01:40 PM:
 

quote: Steve Guttag

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Yes...for the Sound of Music...definitely the 70mm 6-track mix (we showed it in 70mm at the Uptown Jon...where were you?!?!? I looked )

Jurassic Park is probably the ONLY film that I had to walk out of the theatre on a Studio run-through due to it just sounding bad (painful)...and yes it was at the Uptown for Universal. It was tuned as per Universal too. If that is how it was suppose to sound...it was just didn't do it for me.

I have no problem that people like movies or soundtracks that I don't...that isn't the issue...but when one rambles off a list of titles as being the best...I'm curious as to WHY they think they are the best...it is the only way a thread like this can have meaning. It is a given that these lists are going to be based on the opinion of the person posting.

My favorite Star Wars mix was probably Empire...but I have an affection for that film as the best in the series so the sound may be coming part in parcel.

I really liked the Raiders of the Lost Ark mix too of that era.

Despite only hearing it in Dolby Stereo...Rumble Fish really did a nice job of setting the mood. When Rusty James gets hit in the alley still hurts every time I hear it.

As far as Atmospheric sounds...2001 still reigns king for me. They at least had the balls to have no sound in space. There is a lot of inspiration on the sound of 2001. Heck, despite none of the music being written for the film, that music will forever be associated with that film...pretty powerful stuff.

-Steve

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quote: Steve Guttag

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I really liked the Raiders of the Lost Ark mix too of that era.

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