Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Private pilots?

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Posted by Jason Black (Member # 684) on 03-06-2005, 11:03 PM:

Anyone heer have a private pilots license? I'm wondering what is involved in obtaining a license to fly, legally, a Pulsar XP or a model of the like.

Paul? Anyone?

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 03-07-2005, 01:14 AM:

Depending on the privileges you want to have, a Recreational Pilot certificate may be all you need. The requirements for a Private Pilot certificate are more involved, and thus more expensive to train for.

Basically Recreational Pilots are limited to:

Carrying no more than one passenger.
Flying within 50 miles of the departure airport.
Single engine, 4-seat, fixed gear airplane of 180hp or less.
Daytime, visual flying.
Altitudes of 10,000' MSL or less.
Airspace where contact with ATC is not required.
Flight inside the US (this certificate does not meet ICAO requirements).

Most of these limitations can be lifted with further training and logbook signoffs.

A minimum of 30 hours of flight experience is needed--15 hours with an instructor and 15 hours solo. There are further sub-requirements within these times.

Ground instruction or a self-study course must be logged in order to meet the aeronautical knowledge requirement. There is no written test.

A third-class medical certificate is needed. As long as you don't have a drug abuse history and can fog a mirror, this is usually not a biggie.

Private Pilots don't have any of these restrictions. The minimum number of hours for them (under Part 61 rules) is 40--20 hours of instruction and 20 hours of solo. Most people take more time than this to be ready for the Private Pilot checkride--the national average is around 65 hours.

There is also a 60-question written aeronautical knowledge test.

A third-class medical certificate is needed.

There is also a new Sport Pilot certificate available, but the Pulsar XP exceeds the aircraft performance limitations imposed for this group. No medical certificate is needed--just a current driver's license. There is a written test. There is a 20-hour minimum flight time requirement (15 hours instruction, 5 hours solo) and a checkride with a designated Sport Pilot examiner. The limitations are similar to those for Recreational Pilots.

Posted by Jim Ziegler (Member # 86) on 03-07-2005, 03:44 AM:

Someday I will get a pilot's license... And a P-51 Mustang to go with it.. [Smile]

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 03-07-2005, 04:26 AM:

Is there any ongoing recertification process for a pilot's licence, or do you have the licence for life once you've got it? A driving licence (in Britain), for example continues to be valid until your 70th birthday unless you're disqualified (i.e. have your licence suspended following conviction for a driving offence) or diagnosed with some medical conditions. After you're 70 you have to have a medical every three years, but as long as your eyesight doesn't deteriorate there's little chance of failing it. In a way I find this scary, because someone who hasn't driven for 20-30 years could quite legally walk into a Hertz office, hire a car and take to the roads without any retraining.

Given that aircraft are more complicated bits of machinery than most cars and the consequences of causing an accident are potentially a lot greater, is there any way of ensuring that pilots who haven't flown for a long time or in a particular type of aircraft before have their competence assessed before being allowed back into the cockpit?

Posted by Jason Black (Member # 684) on 03-07-2005, 10:40 AM:

Paul,

I would imagine that I would be unable to use the FBO beside of me as it serves the Myrtle Beach Int'l airport. There is a traffic control tower there.. I think the call letters/sign are MYR.

On anoter note, do most runways run in a north/south direction or is this a myth I've had imbedded into my brain? This is all something that would be pursued over the next couple years, as I'm already limited by time and MONEY... [Smile]

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 03-07-2005, 12:48 PM:

quote: Jason Black
do most runways run in a north/south direction or is this a myth I've had imbedded into my brain?

Depends mostly upon the prevailing winds. ROC runways are 4/22, 10/28 and 7/25.

Here is a site where you can check hundreds of airports:

http://www.airnav.com/airports/

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 03-07-2005, 01:47 PM:

www.aopa.com

..if you want to be a member of this.

My father has his own airplane - a 1947 Ercoupe that he tagged for $3k back 20yrs ago. He has to take physcials each year, and he's 81.

To begin to learn, you need to learn in a Links Trainer, or a tail dragger Cessna 180, or a Piper Cub.

Learn how to do "intrument flying", fill out flight plans by hand, learn how to do "prop starts", et.al.

-Monte

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 03-07-2005, 02:59 PM:

Just after I started working for Kodak, I took flying lessons in a Cessna 150. Was cleared for solo after about 12 flying hours, and for cross-country solo after about 30 flying hours. Well on my way to getting my license until I almost "bought the farm" the afternoon of July 15, 1972.

I was practicing solo steep cross-wind landings and corrected poorly on one. Decided to go-round, and dumped my flaps. I knew that I couldn't climb until I had sufficient airspeed, as I realized I had to decide whether to go above or below the power lines just beyond the runway. Decided to go over, and just cleared them by a few feet. [Eek!]

When I got the plane on the ground, I hung up my torn shirt forever.

A few weeks later, I told the story to a senior Civil Air Patrol check pilot who was my colleague at Kodak. He laughed and said "Why did you quit? You didn't stall, and you made the right decision about the wires, didn't you?" [uhoh]

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 03-07-2005, 05:43 PM:

Wow John. Interesting story. I've known a few guys that just stopped flying after some point (me being one of them for now). Have to admit, flying is somewhat risky and very unforgiving of mistakes. That said, it looks like you made a good decision that day (many a cropduster has had to go under rather than over wires). [thumbsup]

Perhaps someday you'll be bit by the flying bug again. It can be damned expensive though. Flying... Drugs would be cheaper. [Big Grin]

Leo, in the US a pilot's certificate is good indefinitely unless surrendured, cancelled, or revoked. However, to carry passengers or to fly at night or under instrument conditions there are certain currency requirements (so many hours, day and night landings, instrument approaches) over certain time periods. This is for each category and class of aircraft one wants to operate. Also, generally there is a requirement for a flight review with an instructor every 24 months. If one owns his/her aircraft, they're on the honor system as far as following these rules goes. For renters, no FBO will rent to someone that cannot prove currency, either by logbook entry or checkride or both. A current medical certificate is required as well, except for glider, balloon, and sport pilots.

Jason, you're right, can't fly at KMYR if you're a Rec or Sport pilot. But I'm sure there are other close-by uncontrolled airports where you could train. Uncontrolled environments are great for training--they're usually not so busy and the training can be more productive (read "cheaper").

Monte alluded to learning to fly in a "conventional gear" or tailwheel airplane, and I heartily concur. It's a little more challenging at first, but very rewarding once you get the hang of it (you'll never forget what a rudder is for or how to use it). I soloed in a Citabria and did my private training in a Cessna 140. It's the most fun you can have in an airplane with your clothes on. Tricycles are for children. [evil]

AOPA and EAA are great organizations to go to for information on getting started.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 03-08-2005, 11:40 AM:

quote: Paul Mayer
Perhaps someday you'll be bit by the flying bug again. It can be damned expensive though. Flying... Drugs would be cheaper.

Inflation. [Eek!]

When I took lessons at the Brockport Flying Club in 1972, the Cessna 150 solo rate was only $11.00 per flying hour, and the flight instructor charged only $5.00 per hour additional. Today's insurance and fuel prices have certainly changed that.

Ground school was nights at the local BOCES high school.

Posted by Fred Georges (Member # 505) on 03-08-2005, 12:13 PM:

About 25 yrs. ago I was heading to waukegan (IL) airport at night to do some touch & go landings. About 10pm I arrive. I turn base to final approach, all lined up when all of a sudden BAM!! out of the corner of my eye off the starboard wing I see lots & lots of FEATHERS! I had smacked into a HUGE flock of geese. Shaken up a bit I continue my touch & go (in retrospect I should have landed & checked the plane but control & handling felt fine). I made it back to my Home airfield (Howell-Defunct) Landed without incident & then inspected the damage. There was hardly an inch on the leading edge of the starboard wing that wasn't covered with dents & blood. Had the Geese hit the prop & windshield I doubt I'd be here today. I left a note for the FBO (Willie Howell) & slowly slinked away. It was His Brand new (38 hrs. TT) Cherokee 180 that I'd smashed up. Havn't piloted since. I'm sure the Birds are thankful! [Big Grin]

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 03-08-2005, 12:38 PM:

quote:
Had they hit the prop in that quantity I doubt if I'd be here today.

Sadly brings to mind the death of another Kodak colleague and pilot, the late Ernie Crisp. Ernie was a former Disney animator, and taught television news cinematographers and editors at Kodak's Marketing and Education Center during the 1970's. He was an experienced and avid pilot, and owned his own classic WACO biplane, based at Williamson-Sodus airport near Rochester.

Ernie "bought the farm" when his hardwood prop disintegrated at an altitude too low to recover. [Frown]

Each year, the National Press Photographers Association sponsors a television news photography and editing competition. The Television News Photographer of the Year receives an award named after Ernie Crisp:

http://www.poynterextra.org/NPPA2003/poy.htm

quote:
The person recognized as the TV Photographer of the Year must show a high level of skill and professionalism. The award serves as recognition of individual ability – an ability against which others can compare their output to determine if they are meeting the standards of the industry.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 03-08-2005, 02:43 PM:

Paul - thanks for the explanation. I think I'll leave flying to the professionals, apart from the odd stress relief session on Microsoft Flight Simulator (and if my performance on that is anything like it would be in an actual aircraft, you wouldn't want me anywhere near a real cockpit [evil]

)...

Posted by Don Furr (Member # 1469) on 03-08-2005, 02:50 PM:

I'm a private pilot. My ratings and limitations are:
Airplane Single & Multiengine-Land
Instrument Airplane. I added the instrument 12-08-82.
Sold my last plane in 2000, a Beechcraft Twin Bonanza D50. Haven't flown since.
Do I miss it??? YES Do I plan to buy another plane? NO It's like owning a boat. Just go to the airport, get out of your car, walk up to your airplane, throw a bucket full of hundred dollar bills at it, go back to your car and drive home. You can't afford to fly it. [beer]

Don

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 03-08-2005, 03:17 PM:

Leo, there's nothing like flying the real thing.
And MS Flight Simulator is nothing like flying the real thing. [Big Grin]

Which is to say you'd more than likely do just fine in the real thing.

FWIW I can't fly MSFS worth beans.

As Don points out, airplanes and boats (especially sailboats) are similar. I love piloting both, but I wouldn't want to own either.

Airplane/Boat: Hole in the sky/water, lined with Aluminum/fiberglass, into which one throws money.

Q: You know how to make a small fortune in aviation?
A: Start with a big one.

I know there's a lot of money in aviation. I put much of it there myself.

Have time and money to spare? Go by air.
More time and money yet? Take a jet.

Sailing: The art of going nowhere slowly at great expense. [Smile]

[ 03-11-2005, 11:30 PM: Message edited by: Paul Mayer ]

Posted by Bruce Hansen (Member # 281) on 03-08-2005, 05:17 PM:

I have a private pilots license. I got it back when I was in high school in the late 60's. My father worked for Pan Am airlines, and they had a flying club. They had C-150's for $5.00 and hour, dry (not including gas). When I moved to Atlanta, I got sticker shock, and did not fly much after that. All the restructions being put on flying around that time put me off flying too. I recently went up in a friends C-180, and it was fun to do a little flying again, even if it was from the co-pilots seat.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 03-10-2005, 11:49 PM:

I started training for Private Pilot. Went to ground school, had a couple of hours, but never finished. Too #$%@ expensive. I had a new Moviola and 16mm production equipment to feed at the time.

Posted by Lance C. McFetridge (Member # 95) on 03-13-2005, 02:31 PM:

Our club offers a C-150 for $43.00 wet. Our PA-28R 200 is only $63.00 wet so who would buy one when you can rent this cheaply? Of course with rising fuel costs these prices are certain to go up. We had two local pilots just lose an engine on a 39 Grumman Goose which resulted in total loss of the airplane but they both walked away... like they say...a good landing is when you walk away, a great landing is when you can use the airplane again. Our club requires an annual review by a CFI or II depending on your rating with an IPC yearly if you qualify.
I hope to take a trip to KMYR in April for a few days.
Becoming a private pilot was one of the hardest things I personally have ever done, but worth every minute of studying. That written test of 60 questions Paul mentioned is randomly selected from over 700, but you can buy a book with every question listed. Tricycles might be for children, but wings belong on the bottom of a fuselage, not the top! [Big Grin]

lance

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-13-2005, 04:56 PM:

I had a friend that flew MD-80's for American and he once helped me land an MD-80(MSFS) at Meigs field in Lake Michigan off Chicago using the glide slope. We stopped right at the north end of the runway, literally. I sweated perfusley bringing it all the way down! Not only could he fly MD-80's but also just about everything else on MSFS. In real life the only actual Jet transport to ever land at Meigs was a Boeing 727 which is now on display at the Museum Of Science And Industry.

Mark

Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 03-14-2005, 06:23 AM:

quote: Lance C. McFetridge
Our club offers a C-150 for $43.00 wet. Our PA-28R 200 is only $63.00 wet

I don't understand; do you get a discount if you go down over water?

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 03-14-2005, 08:45 AM:

Or when you're drunk?

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 03-14-2005, 11:27 AM:

Both, gentlemen. [Big Grin]

"Wet" means with fuel. Those quoted rates are a great deal in this age of nearly $4.00USD/gallon 100-octane avgas. Here, a wet Cessna 172 will set you back anywhere from $55 to over $100/hour, depending on how old it is and on the installed avionics package.

Aviation Research - US avgas price survey March 2005