Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Finally got new computer.

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Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 04-13-2005, 02:17 PM:

For about five years I've been using an old Pentium 1 machine donated to me by work when nobody else wanted it. A year or two ago the power supply blew up, I patched it up, but it's packed up again several times recently, and the 'I' key wasn't working properly, I kept getting no 'I's, or too many of them.

I live in a tiny space, and money's a bit tight at the moment, so I needed something small and cheap. Ended up buying a Mac Mini, which I am using with my old monitor, and an old Apple ADB keyboard and mouse, via a USB adapter.

The thing's small enough to be easily carried around on the bus, at the moment I'm using it t work, connected via a IP over firewire link to my Dell desktop, which is sharing its network connection. Useful for copying big files between them quickly.

Using the DVI connection to my decent monitor at work the display's pretty good for a cheap machine; it's not so good on my grotty monitor at home, I'll have to get a new one some day.

Strangely, the DVD drive came set up to play region 1.

If I'd been designing the thing I'd have given it a couple more USB ports, but can't complain.

Posted by Rachel Gilardi (Member # 1016) on 04-13-2005, 02:27 PM:

Congrats!

Oddly enough, I just got a new computer too, yesterday. Finally got myself a laptop after many years of drooling over them. [Smile]

The best thing is, I can play WoW on it... [Big Grin]

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 04-14-2005, 01:23 AM:

I have my gunsights set on a new desktop machine for home...coming in early 2006. I have an aging Dell 1GHz PIII desktop machine that seems to be getting by for now. I just spent $2000 on a new notebook computer to get mobile (and it is great). However, early in 2006 Intel will be rolling out new 65nm process CPUs. They will have dual-core processors (two CPUs in one die) and have 2MB of L2 cache per core for a total of 4MB of L2 cache. That will be pretty damned nice for some serious Photoshop and After Effects acceleration. Couple that with the likihood that PC graphics cards will have 1GB of on board memory by then and you're looking at the possibility of some monster computer systems.
[thumbsup]

Posted by Wolff King Morrow (Member # 2226) on 04-14-2005, 02:48 AM:

That does sound awesome for down the road. Right now I am building my latest dream PC with SLI dual graphics cards. I've got 4-gig ram on the mobo and another half-gig in video memory on the cards. The mobo also has 8.1 digital audio built in. Not bad for current gaming...

One things for sure, I'll never buy a brand desktop system again. Building them piece by piece allows me to buy just what I want without wasting money on features I would never use.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 04-14-2005, 04:34 AM:

Agreed entirely. Apart from my laptop (a pretty basic model, given that I only really use it for email and word processing on the move), I haven't bought an 'out of the box' PC since my first one in 1995. I gradually upgraded that with various bits and pieces before building my first 'from the motherboard up' PC in 1999. Quite apart from anything else it avoids having to buy all the bundled software that comes with a packaged PC and which most people won't ever use.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 04-14-2005, 11:34 AM:

After you've had some time to settle into it, tell us how you like that Mac Mini! (Should'a called it "Mini Mac" if you ask me! [Big Grin]

)

Since I saw them, I've wanted to get about a dozen of those little babies and cluster them using XGrid!

If that region code is a problem for you, try going to xlr8yourmac.com. If you look around there you might be able to find a flash firmware utility to change it to the region that it "should" be.
(Just be aware that flash firmware utilities have the potential to totally F.U.B.A.R. your drive.)

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 04-14-2005, 02:18 PM:

...for goofs and giggles, I dug out my old 8088 machine, which is loaded with MS-DOS 3.3 and Windows 1.03. Fun to see the comparison between the two OS's.

Then, I dig out the AMIGA 1000 and still remember how to do Workbench 1.3. AMIGA had the huge credit with their monitors, which were RGB based, thus you can use them for VCR monitors and watch your tapes with that .39 pitch display that these monitors had. Picture quality was pretty sharp for a 14 inch monitor.

Then, out came the 8 bit machine: the ATARI 800XL and tried to remember some BASIC.- Monte

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 04-14-2005, 03:03 PM:

any one still have a "ADAM"

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 04-14-2005, 07:14 PM:

No, but I have an Apple ][e.

The Apple ][s at my high school had a whopping 64K of memory and only ONE of them had a 5 1/4" floppy drive.

When I got my Apple ][e I, I saved up my pennies and got an 80 collumn card which also upped the memory to 128K! And.. I had TWO floppy drives!

I programmed it in Apple Pascal, so when I got to college I was able to get a Work Study job programming the computer in the Campus Security office to keep a database of all the parking tickets handed out by the Campus Cops.

Man, Oh, Man! Those were the days! [Big Grin]

Posted by Michael Barry (Member # 237) on 04-15-2005, 08:26 PM:

I had one of those too, Randy!

An Apple IIe with - yes - an 80 column card. I remember that there were two 80 column cards available...the one which upped the RAM to 128k was called an 'extended' 80 column card. They were REALLY special. Likewise, I also had 2 X 5 1/4 inch floppy drives.

This was my computer well into the 90's and folks looked at me like I was crazy (admittedly, not an unusual response) when I told them that my computer didn't have a hard drive AT ALL. Clearly, they forgot about or weren't around for the joys of circa 1983 computing!

I wonder why so many people have such short memories when it comes to technology?

Anyone remember Zork and the other Infocom text adventures? [Big Grin]

Posted by Charlie Frisby (Member # 2927) on 04-15-2005, 08:46 PM:

I can remember this game i played on commador 64. This is how it went....
..........................................................

I see a castle to the north.

"move twoards it"

Invalad command

"Look West"

You see a tree with a bird chirping.

"Kill the bird!"

Cannot kill bird yet.

"move twoards bird"

invalad command

"Move west"

The bird flew away.

"this game sucks"

Invalid command

" Kill yourself"

Cannot kill "yourself"

.............................................

I then played california games for 5 hours and that was about it.

Posted by Adam Fraser (Member # 1074) on 04-15-2005, 11:38 PM:

I just built a computer a few days ago for myself to upgrade from a AMD Duron 900.

AMD Athlon 64 2800+
MSI K8M Neo-V Mobo
512 MB of DDR 400
80 GB 7200 RPM HDD from old computer.

Seems to run great so far and is a vast improvement over the old Duron. Not bad for $300.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 04-16-2005, 01:36 AM:

I'm going to be getting a new desktop machine for work. I don't necessarily want the latest and greatest in CPUs and graphics cards.

But one thing I really would like is that new Dell 2405FPW 24" flat panel widescreen monitor. The monitor panel is a new unit made by Samsung with a faster response time and other technically superior features than any 23" flat panel monitor on the market, including the 23" unit LG makes as the basis for Apple's Studio Cinema Display. To top it off, the Dell 24" monitor lists for $1200. You can get it for hundreds less when ordered with a new computer. Reviews for this monitor have been about as good as I've seen for LCD displays. The only thing better is a high end CRT.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 04-16-2005, 03:31 PM:

quote:
After you've had some time to settle into it, tell us how you like that Mac Mini! (Should'a called it "Mini Mac" if you ask me! [Big Grin] )

It does what I need it to, and it's reasonably cheap. If you were to take one of the G4 iMACs, saw off the arm holding the monitor, rip out the power supply and put it in a separate box, and then hammer the round base into a square shape, you've pretty much got a mini.

The monitor connection is a DVI-I, so you can connect a DVI or VGA monitor to it, the VGA adapter is supplied. It should also be possible to connect ADC or DFP monitors via appropriate adapters, but I haven't tried this, and the ADC adapter is rather expensive. It is possible to drive an old Apple monitor with a D-15 connection using the DVI to VGA and a VGA to D-15 adapter, I have done this. It will also output composite or S-video in PAL or NTSC format, via another, optional, adapter cable. This works fine for playing DVDs, and you could probably use it for a Powerpoint presentation, but a normal TV set isn't really up to being used in place of a monitor for other purposes.

The DVI output is only single link, so it can't be used with the Apple 30", and a few other high end displays. I don't see this as a problem; if you were doing the sort of work that needs that sort of display you probably wouldn't be using a mini.

The display adapter is a ATI one, with 32MB video ram, again more than adequate for the sort of work it is intended for, but not upgradable. On my Dell flat panel at work it looks very good.

Audio could be better, the only output is a headphone/line out socket (Apple's despription, not mine). There's no audio input at all. If you want something better you would have to connect external hardware via USB

Ethernet is a single 10/100 Mb. RJ-45 port, no objections here; gigabit really isn't necessary.

Built-in 56k modem; no complaints, though I'll seldom, if ever, use it.

Firewire is a single 400 port. Two would have been nice, but not vital.

Two USB 2 ports, not really adequate, if you connect a USB keyboard which doesn't contain a hub, and a USB mouse, then you've got none left. Many people would want a printer and scanner. I would have liked to see four ports; maybe they couldn't supply enough power for them, as it is the power supply is about half the size of the computer itself. I'm having to use an external USB hub, with yet another mains adapter.

The power supply connector is rather nasty, it looks a bit like the mini VGA connector on the E-mac, and the cable is not a very good fit.

There's a slot for a Kensington lock.

Hard disk size is 40 or 80 GB. I've got 40.

Standard RAM is 256 or 512 MB. 1GB. is available as an option. I have 256. It is not supposed to be upgradeable, but it is possible to get the case open. There's only one slot, so you would have to remove the existing RAM to upgrade.

CD-R/DVD-ROM or DVD-R drive, slot loading, so it won't take 8cm discs, nor credit card sized ones.

It's very quiet, and only gets very slightly warm; there's more heat from the power supply than from the computer.

Two other internal options that I forgot about, 802.11g wireless, and Bluetooth. I do have these, as they weren't expensive, and would be a problem to add later, but I'm not using them.

If you are unlikely to want to upgrade it in the future, and you have a suitable monitor available, then it's quite good. If you are buying it to replace a PC, as Apple suggest, then you are probably going to need a new keyboard, as most PCs still do not have USB ones for some reason. If you do not have a suitable monitor, and are going to have to buy one, then an i-MAC may well be a better option. It's a pity they've discontinued the G4 iMAC.

quote:
Since I saw them, I've wanted to get about a dozen of those little babies and cluster them using XGrid!

I hadn't thought of clustering it; what I had thought of was using several of them as small servers, web servers, that sort of thing. If they were to make a 5U rack mount chassis, with a power supply in the bottom, then you could fit about eight minis into slots above. Sort of like a blade server on the cheap. Additional storage either via Firewire drives, or network attached.

If you want a cluster, maybe you should consider this one

quote: Randy Stankey
If that region code is a problem for you, try going to xlr8yourmac.com. If you look around there you might be able to find a flash firmware utility to change it to the region that it "should" be.
(Just be aware that flash firmware utilities have the potential to totally F.U.B.A.R. your drive.)

It's not a problem. Normally they're supplied without a region set; you have to set one the first time you insert a restricted DVD, and can then change it up to four more times. It was bought direct from Apple, so it wasn't set in a shop.

I have a multi-region DVD player, though I've only got a handful of region 1 and 6 discs. I'm going to leave the Apple as it is, it's small and light enough to carry somewhere is I want to play a region 1 disc.

I've got a free flight over to NJ on the 26th, (dont ask, it's a long story) I'll be going to the Friday and Saturday shows at the Loew's Jersey while I'm there. Any chance of anyone else making it to one of them?

Posted by Christopher Duvall (Member # 284) on 04-16-2005, 04:28 PM:

I just rebuilt mine. I had an Intel P4 1.7Ghz.

The new machine now sports...

AMD Athlon 64 3500
2Gb PC3200 DDR400 RAM
nVidia 6800 GT

I canibalized the old drives over to the new machine but I will be buying new ones shortly.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 04-16-2005, 04:53 PM:

My previous machine had quite a bit of updrading over the years; extra ram and new hard disk before I got it, and I added USB, Firewire and scsi, none of which it had originally. The processor was replaced by a slightly faster one ,Pentium 133 I think, salvaged from a scrapped machine.

The machine before that, a 486/66 with VESA, EISA and ISA cards was built from scratch, and was very expensive at the time. It's still in store, and used from time to time. Before that I had a 33 MHz 486sx which was bought, and given away when I built the next one.

Buying parts tends to be quite a bit more expensive than buying an off the shelf machine.

Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 04-18-2005, 02:22 AM:

quote: Charlie Frisby
I see a castle to the north.

This looks like one of the early personal computer adaptations of the much earlier game advent or dungeo (a.k.a. 'dungeon').

"You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike."

The earlier versions had a little house in the distance instead of a castle. I played dungeo back in the 70s on a mainframe in the green monitor days - wasn't it the coolest a decade or so later when you could buy an amber monitor?

Favorite instruction example from the help file: "Disassemble the encyclopedia"

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 04-18-2005, 05:25 AM:

quote: Stephen Furley
Buying parts tends to be quite a bit more expensive than buying an off the shelf machine.

It is now, and unless you want a high-end spec or one tailored for a very specific application, self building probably makes less, if any, economic sense. The first - and only - off the shelf PC I bought was a very basic 486, with 32mb of RAM, a 100mb hard drive and a 14" monitor, in December 1995. That cost £800. You can get the equivalent starter PC for less than half that in the shops now, or even less online. Factor in the cost of inflation and the price has probably dropped by two thirds in real terms during the last decade.

My current system is designed specifically for video editing, because I do quite a bit of preparing material for broadcasters and other archive clients working at home. Its last major upgrade, last summer, took it to:

No-name case with three no-name fans (two intake and one exhaust)
500w PSU
Gigabyte GN-A400 Pro 2 motherboard
AMD 3200 processor (plus copper heatsink unit)
2gb PC3200 DDRAM
2 x 250gb Western Digital SATA hard discs
Matrox G500 display card
Matrox RT2500 video capture card
Sound card on motherboard (as nearly all the material I deal with is either silent or mono, originally from optical or 16mm mag, there's no need for any more)
Dell P900 (Dell branded 19" Sony Trinitron, sold off as surplus - a bargain at £130 from Ebuyer) monitor
LG 16x DVD writer
Internal 100mb Zip drive
Sony DSR-11 DVCAM portable VTR for capture and output, connected via Firewire, plus a VHS/S-VHS unit connected via S-video (hardly ever used now, though).

The total cost came in at just over a grand (excluding the monitor and the Zip drive, which I had before), all told, but that's probably bought me around 50 days of not having to trek into work, will probably double that figure at least during the remainder of its useful lifetime and I can use it for other stuff, too.

I'm not entirely convinced that it would be any cheaper to put that sort of system together by buying a basic machine and adding bits: for one thing, virtually no packaged PCs come with a motherboard of that spec, and the three expensive things (RAM, hard drives and video capture card) would still have to be added anyway. But if you're in the market for a simple, entry-level system, I agree with Stephen - you'd have to work hard to buy the separate components for less than £400 ish, and even then you still wouldn't have any software.

Posted by Charlie Frisby (Member # 2927) on 04-21-2005, 08:16 PM:

quote: Leo Enticknap
The total cost came in at just over a grand (excluding the monitor and the Zip drive, which I had before), all told, but that's probably bought me around 50 days of not having to trek into work, will probably double that figure at least during the remainder of its useful lifetime and I can use it for other stuff, too.

My machine I got in 2002 had pretty similar specs.

Cost me$1500 and some change (including cost for monitor, printer, controller and a better mouse)

Cost about the same I'd guess give or take $100

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 04-22-2005, 03:36 AM:

Given that you got your machine two years earlier than I built mine, it was probably quite a bit cheaper, I'd guess. In particular, the cost of RAM and hard drives came down a lot in the year or so before I built my current PC.

Only last night I noticed that Asda (British supermarket chain recently taken over by Wal Mart) had a PC package for £339, consisting of a Celeron processor, 256mb RAM, 80gb hard drive, 56k modem, a 15" TFT monitor, DVD writer, inkjet photo printer, Windows, Works and a load of games software. That literally translates as $602, but this figure probably doesn't tell the whole story because the pound is unusually high against the dollar at the moment.

For someone who wants a decent office machine but nothing seriously powerful such as would be needed for graphics or video applications, it would make sense to buy something like this, stick some more memory in it, then buy MS Office, an ADSL modem and a laser printer if needed. If you're prepared to use Open Office or a cheaper package you could probably do the whole thing for around £450. Clicking through some component prices on Ebuyer, it looks virtually impossible to get near this spec for that price by self-building. In effect they're throwing in the monitor, the printer and Windows for free.