Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Always carry a camera!

This is topic Always carry a camera! in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=004053

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 05-11-2005, 06:53 PM:

So there I am packing for a short service call to a 6 screen place in Ireland, decide not to bother packing my digicam as it's only a two day thing and it's a multiplex so hardly likely to have anythign worth photographing.

What do I find when I walk in teh door? Only a fully restored and functioning Compton cinema organ, built into the foyer above the concessions stand!

I was lucky enough to have ten minutes spare to have a good nosey around it, built in 1936 and restored to a very high standard it's the only cinema organ left in Ireland, and quite possibly the only one in a cinema in the UK.

Posted by Alexander Smith (Member # 1769) on 05-11-2005, 07:32 PM:

That's why a phone-cam is better than no camera at all. Provided your employer lets you use such while you're at work. ;-)

Alex.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 05-12-2005, 01:38 AM:

Abs-O-Freakin-Lutely!

Aside from the random photo you wished you could take a camera is a great aid on the job!

Can't identify a part you need? Snap a pic and e-mail it to the Mfg. I've done it several times!

Trying to describe a problem to a coworker? Snap a pic of that film that's out of whack.

Want to remember how some parts go back together? Take a picture of them BEFORE you disassemble! Use a printout of the picutre or display on your laptop to figure out the original arrangement of parts.

Evidence! This is probably what I use a digicam for the MOST!
Document EVERYTHING you do in pictures if there is the SLIGHTEST chance that somebody was tampering or damaging equipment. More than one time, I have had some stupid idiot try to pin the blame on ME when something didn't work. I e-mailed a picture of the projector that just broke all by itself to the boss. A couple of times I didn't do this and I wish I had!

I also used my digicam at theaters to document how to do some routine maintainence or repair issue that theaters SHOULD know how to do. When they call you up because they can't change a diode in a projector that's down on a Friday night a picture e-mailed back to them might save you a trip, or at least give you a chance to have the problem fixed before you have to get in your car and drive to some remote location.

This day and age, cameras are so cheap everybody ought to have one!

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 05-12-2005, 01:40 AM:

Also, keep a disposable camera in your car's glove box (unless you have your normal one with you) to gather evidence if you're involved in an accident.

Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 05-12-2005, 01:58 AM:

Was it a pipe organ or electronic? Compton was quite an innovator in both fields. The pipe organs had, among other innovations: the Compton Cube - a very effective & space-saving device for putting several notes of a low rank in one device, it was not polyphonic, but since chords aren't usually played down there, it was an excellent device; and the Melotone, which was the first successful electronic stop added to a cinema organ, & a very effective & enjoyable stop in its own right - it's a cool sound. Compton also understood the effectiveness in registration & so implemented high unification *much* better than Wurlitzer!

Compton's work with the Melotone led to their development of electronic organs like the Theatrone & the Electrone.

Compton's electronic models also looked VERY snazzy & theatrical, unlike most US manufacturers (like Wurlitzer) whose designs for electronic consoles became the basis of the generic description of "Granny Organs". Not all did this, Conn understood & made good-looking electronic theatre organ consoles.

There's a page about Compton cinema organs at
http://www.zyworld.com/ivorbuckingham/Home.htm

& a page with some info & pictures of Compton's electronic organs at
http://www.zyworld.com/ivorbuckingham/Electrones.htm

Check the console designs on the Theatrones! Them ain't no Granny Organs.

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 05-12-2005, 03:14 AM:

Sorry I should have put more detail in, was a bit tired last night.

Being built in 1936 there is nothing electronic about this beast, it's all pipe with the percussions section etc being air driven. There is also a piano attached which will can be 'played' from the organ keybaord, again all air operated. Behind the scenes are two enormous blowers which supply the air, and bank of mahogany cabinets, which hold all the interlocking relays, not disimalar to an old telephone exchange.

I normally carry my wee digicam everyhwhere, it lives in the car, but this trip was by air, so I packed light, and omitted to put it in. Never again!

Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 05-12-2005, 07:02 AM:

Wow, it's even got the original EP relay!

Yes, that's a classic Compton cinema organ!

Control works like this:
Originally organs (like old church organs) had direct mechanical linkage between each key & a pipe. These are called "tracker" organs. Some organ people are snobs & you can tell because they sneer at theatre organs/cinema organs & act like they see themselves wearing powdered wigs. If you encounter someone like this at a church or somewhere, always ask stupid questions referring to the organ as a "tractor organ" while keeping a naive face. "This is a ... TRACTOR organ, isn't it?" When corrected on pronunciation, apologize, thank them, & continue in future references to call it a tractor organ & apologize when corrected again.

The next innovation was using a flexible tube with air to communicate between key & the valve under a pipe. A valve was located at the key, it poofed into at tube which ran into the pipe chest, & activated one or more pneumatics there to sound the organ. This type was/is called "tubular pneumatic" action.

Robert Hope-Jones came up with the "electro-pneumatic" action, in the time of THE DAWN OF ELECTRICITY. Contacts closed at the key, wires ran through any method of relays desired, as complicated as desired, ending with an electromagnet being energized under the desired pipe which pulled down a metal disc attached to a leather "pouch" admitting air from the chest (basically a constantly pressurized plenum) into the pipe.

It's all low voltage (around 12v DC), & solenoid technology hadn't advanced far enough for a great deal of mechanical advantage, so for things that needed muscle like banging percussions (drums, xylophones, opening the "swell shades" which control volume, etc.) the same setup as for pipes was used, except the magnet admitted big gulps of raw pressurized air into a pneumatic to bang whatever needed it.

The EP relays work like that, too. You'll see that they're just ganged contacts, one side is moveable, & instead of being closed by the whole thing being pulled in by an electromagnet, one valve is used to activate the raw-air-powered pneumatic which closes it.

The method is cool, the designs utilizing iterations & permutations in each organ are often amazing.

If/when you go back, if an organ guy is there, see if it's got a Compton Cube for the lowest notes in some rank, &/or if it's got a famous Compton Melotone (electronic) rank, too.

Beware the pipes themselves. They look like galvanized steel, but they're soft & often somewhat fragile: made of tin & lead alloy, basically solder!

What's the name of the theatre? Give them some ink & props for putting in not just a cinema/theatre organ, but a Compton!

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 05-12-2005, 08:16 AM:

Also Compton made a metal tiba that was amazing for its powerfull sound

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 05-12-2005, 05:05 PM:

They have a website which has some pictures of it on the front page!

Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 05-12-2005, 06:07 PM:

Pete,
Thanks for the link to the Compton theatre organ. That is a very interesting use of the organ as it can be seen as well as heard. The glass enclosed box with the many pulleys is a Compton mechanical scanner which generates tones for the electrical stop/s. It is typical of the Compton to have the lighted surround on the ends of the console as well as the illuminated seat base. This is one very unique installation.

I do hope that they will have a few bars of music from the organ in the background of their home page.

KEN

Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 05-13-2005, 01:52 AM:

Thanks for the link, too! That's a very nice installation. Sharp, fresh, new millwork on the framing members.

Very original, not just for keeping the EP relay, but also the vintage horn speakers for the Melotone unit:

Melotone unit:
http://www.movieland.co.uk/gallery/electrone.jpg

Speaker:
http://www.movieland.co.uk/gallery/high-press.jpg

Another speaker:
http://www.movieland.co.uk/gallery/cello.jpg

And another speaker hiding behind an offset octave of metal 8's:
http://www.movieland.co.uk/gallery/diapason.jpg

They *look* like 8's, fat, but they're not reeds & not strings, & I wonder if they're metal tibias like the ones Gordon mentioned.

I can't make out the stops on the console, but it looks like there's something at 16', but I can't see any pipes for it. Since it looks like the installation is an exhibition of Compton specialties, I wonder if they *do* have a Compton Cube for 16's somewhere. They're not very spectacular in appearance, & probably wouldn't be displayed in a PR photo.

That looks like the piano off to the right in the first, wide picture with the console & pipes. Pianos were basically standard player pianos (which operate on vacuum), which were controlled via substituting a bar of magnets instead of a paper roll & tracker bar.

The chimes are unenclosed, which means they can be have double use as a Cine-Gong stand in. Are the other percussions (xylo, drums, etc. outside the pipe chamber(s), too?

The classic cinema organ lighted "jelly mold" console surround with changing colors is excellent & a delight to see functional. The only iconic feature missing is a lift. Too bad they couldn't have installed it so that it rises slowly from hiding behind the
popcorn & nacho machines to the top position up there. Probably too much hazard of getting butter & cheese in the pedal contacts.

What a fun installation, great public spot, great instrument that makes fun music, & a lobby that's got eyeball-sucking visual fun for customers! Congrats to those guys!

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 05-13-2005, 02:09 AM:

They do have the lift, but as the building was up before the organ arrived it proved impossible to utilist it, however it is carefully stored.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 05-13-2005, 04:39 PM:

The illuminated 'jelly mould' surround to the console was very common here, but I don't think I've ever seen one on an American installation. Most were of this style, with several different colours of lighting, but the organ at the Odeon Leicester Square, also a Compton, has a quite different design. There's a picture of it

here

How exactly did the Mellotone work? I've never actually seen one, but I have heard the one at the now-closed State at Grays, Essex. I remember some years ago reading that one particular type of valve (vacuum tube) used in it was no longer available, and that various other parts were problematic, so it sounds like it is a difficult thing to keep working in original condition.

How common were ombined pipe and electronic instruments? Did any company other than Compton produce anything similar?

Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 05-13-2005, 06:47 PM:

In the 1950's the Conn Electronic organ was combined with several ranks of pipes by the Tellers Organ Company of Erie, PA USA. These few instruments were not very successful as the vacuum tube electronics were quite pitch stable and the tuning of the pipes tracked the temperature and humidity of the room. Unable to make the oscillators track the pitch of the pipes, Conn abandoned the idea.

It was not until many years later that the Rodgers Organ Company of Hillsboro OR. USA found a way to tune the entire solid state electronic organ to match the wandering pitch of the pipes. Today Rodgers manufactures digital organs which can control many pipe ranks and the two tone producing systems can be maintained in very acceptable pitch.

Some enthusiasts have used kit built electronic generators to augment theatre organs here in Michigan. Since the theatre organ is usually played with the tremulants on, it is not that pitch problematic.

KEN

Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 05-16-2005, 03:15 AM:

quote: Stephen Furley
The illuminated 'jelly mould' surround to the console was very common here, but I don't think I've ever seen one on an American installation.

I don't know of any US illuminated surrounds, either. The use & installation of cinema organs persisted longer in the UK than the US, & illuminated surrounds were not just expected, but competitive for new achievements in theatricality in each new design. Theatre organ installations in the US pretty much hit a dead stop by 1929 (except for large, prestige houses in large urban areas), & TO's went with the orchestras. That's probably another reason why the illuminated surrounds fit in with the later UK cinema organ installs: US theatre organ consoles had to share the pit with the orchestra, & illuminated surrounds take up a lot of space!

The illuminated surrounds were used on any type of cinema organ in the UK, including Wurlitzer. Here are some more consoles with illuminated surrounds:

Long link
http://www.gbmuk.fsnet.co.uk/consoles.html
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/ltot/stop2.htm

They were usually custom built, considered as part of the individual organ's design. I think I read somewhere that that there was one major shop that built the illuminated surrounds in England, & that organ builders took the designs to them & had them fabricated.

quote: Stephen Furley
How exactly did the Mellotone work?

There were apparently a couple of designs, & there's information here

The Compton Melotone was the 1st combined pipe/electronic I know of (of course, there were additions of many strange acoustic noisemakers like percussions & stringed instruments, etc.), & it was pretty much the case that even a Hammond would be installed in some UK theatres before some sort of hybrid. As Ken Wuepper noted, Rodgers (bought later by Roland, which may still own it) was the company that got the electronic/pipe hybrids to work best. Rodgers devised turnkey rebuilds of church organs with electronic & pipe additions, but the most common electronic addition (for church & TO's) was an electronic 32' stop. Walker organs has pretty much become the benchmark for digital TO's & additions now.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 05-16-2005, 03:24 AM:

quote:
Design of the original Series One/Two discs proved to be a disaster. An acetate-based form of plastic appears to have been used, which created the problem of it having to be kept at a relatively stable temperature. This was all the more critical as the acetate layer was riveted onto an aluminium backing (flywheel) disc. Ian Macnaught (Scottish Cinema Organ Trust) sums up the situation thus: “If the disc temperature was allowed to go up and down – like hot during the day, and cool at night – it kneaded the plastic, causing a catalytic action, which resulted in a vinegar-smelling gas to be given off. The loss of mass in the material then allowed decay of the acetate, into a ‘toffee’ consistency, which gradually poured itself out of the bottom of the disc assembly.

Oh dear, so it's not only film prints that have the vinegar problem.

Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 05-19-2005, 01:59 AM:

If you want to do a little Theatre Organ Geeking, there are some great chamber photos of the big Moller TO in the Atlanta Fox here.

Check the Locomotive Bell! You can also see the thunder sheet stuck up in the toy counter, & what seems to be the Wind Effect underneath. The Slap Sticks action is about the 8th photo down, & there are a couple of looks at the (not under expression!) 32' Diaphones further down.

A stoplist for the Moller in the Atlanta Fox is here.