Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Cheap software website

This is topic Cheap software website - is there a catch? in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 05-20-2005, 07:09 AM:

I'm in the process of building a PC for a relative, and while Google searching for the cheapest OEM copy of Windows I could find, I came across this website. It's offering XP Pro as an ISO download for $49, which seems dodgy to me - that's less than half the price of an OEM CD from any British retailer.

The small print says that you simply get the ISO download - you don't get any printed documentation or 'manufacturer support', but that they send you an activation key by email. Is this legit? Presumably if this website was flogging pirated software then Microsoft would have had it closed down yonks ago. Does 'no manufacturer support' mean that you can't install service packs and updates? If anyone has bought any software from this site or one like it, I'd be grateful for some feedback. That price just looks too good to be on the level. Many thanks.

Posted by Mike Williams (Member # 1140) on 05-20-2005, 07:13 AM:

That can't be legit... they have Enterprise server 2003 for $69.95. (Normally $800.00) and excahnge server 2003 (Normally $6000) for 69.95.
I would be afraid of passing my credit card number to them for any "purchase"

Posted by Floyd Justin Newton (Member # 1316) on 05-20-2005, 08:46 AM:

If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is! [Smile]

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 05-20-2005, 12:45 PM:

I've emailed Microsoft asking if these guys are legit: watch this space.

Posted by Anslem Rayburn (Member # 1267) on 05-20-2005, 01:09 PM:

The FAQ section on their website says you do not receive a license, which means you have no legal right to use the software. I'm sure that MS, Adobe, Et Al will be taking care of this place shortly. I'm just surprised they are so flagrant in their disregard for the law, especially with software from the big guys they have on that site!

Updated to add:

I called Microsoft regarding this site, and they pointed out the lack of support, updates, and a license. They then offered to connect me to their anti-piracy department at 1-800-785-3448 .

I was informed that NO company is authorized to make ANY MS product available for download, and what this "company" is doing is definitely illegal. They asked me for some information (name, contact info, how I discovered the company, etc. - personal information was optional), and the representative on the line filed a report. We'll see what happens.

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 05-20-2005, 03:21 PM:

High priced software for cheap is rarely an honest proposition. I can get Win2K quite cheap, and entirely legal... but it's at the end of the MS support cycle and worth about what the seller wants.
Buying the OEM XP - usually one must buy some "qualifying hardware" which is sometimes liberally interpreted (ie a case screw set) - is lots cheaper than the full retail box but you don't get MS support. I've installed both types and had to call MS a few times; the extra $$$ is maybe worth it if you run into trouble. With a boxed version MS support is very helpful and actually know what they're doing, with the OEM version they tell you to call the OEM and then hang up. Possibly if you record the vital numbers from a retail version and call about an OEM one they'll be fooled but if they try remote administration they'll catch on pretty fast.
With "pirate" XP copies you're very likely to be denied online updates except maybe some security fixes. Most are sold with stolen/copied/whatever site licenses that bypass the phone/online activation process but MS keeps an up to date list of misused licenses which are rejected by Windows Update.

Posted by Mike Williams (Member # 1140) on 05-20-2005, 04:28 PM:

They will let you download Red Hat Linux for $69.95 also... [uhoh]

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 05-20-2005, 05:47 PM:

Anslem - many thanks for checking this out with the 'phone call.

quote: Anslem Rayburn
I'm just surprised they are so flagrant in their disregard for the law, especially with software from the big guys they have on that site!

...which was what made me think that this might just be legit. After all, it's not as if I replied to a spam message or went looking for illegal sites - I found this place by doing a Google search for 'XP Pro OEM', and it was there on the first page of results. I thought that if I could find them that easily, then so could Microsoft.

quote: Anslem Rayburn
I was informed that NO company is authorized to make ANY MS product available for download, and what this "company" is doing is definitely illegal. They asked me for some information (name, contact info, how I discovered the company, etc. - personal information was optional), and the representative on the line filed a report. We'll see what happens.

I sent an email to Microsoft via the 'contact us' page of their website, but haven't had any response as yet - presumably I'll eventually get one with words to the same effect.

quote: Dave Macaulay
With a boxed version MS support is very helpful and actually know what they're doing, with the OEM version they tell you to call the OEM and then hang up.

I don't mind that - I know what I'm doing when it comes to installing and updating Windows and so I don't want to pay £50 extra for a service I don't need, i.e. 'phone support. But neither do I want to buy stolen goods, and it's starting to look like that would be a risk with this site.

But I agree entirely with Anslem - these people are blatantly pissing about with several very big boys and girls. I'm just surprised that because I came across them so easily through an obvious Google search, none of these big boys and girls have nailed the operators of this site as yet.

Posted by Wayne Keyser (Member # 2420) on 05-20-2005, 09:58 PM:

Best place for legal software at low prices (in my opinion) - Amazon.com, in the alternative "X number of new and used available" from Amazon msarketplace sellers (ALWAYS check feedback!)

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 05-21-2005, 07:06 AM:

Thanks! [Smile]

Found an OEM CD & licence from an Amazon seller with strongly positive feedback for £43.

BTW, I looked up Softpiece on whois.net and got the following:

quote:
[whois.directi.com]
Registration Service Provided By: ESTDOMAINS
Contact: support@estdomains.com
Website: http://www.estdomains.com
Abuse Desk Email Address: abuse@estdomains.com

Domain Name: SOFTPIECE.COM

Registrant:
Neo net ltd
John Hopking (soft@lastsoft.biz)
PO box 675 , denver .co
Denver
CO,188101
US
Tel. +1.2372732

Creation Date: 21-Apr-2005
Expiration Date: 21-Apr-2006

Domain servers in listed order:
ns1.soft-ns.com
ns2.soft-ns.com

Administrative Contact:
Neo net ltd
John Hopking (soft@lastsoft.biz)
PO box 675 , denver .co
Denver
CO,188101
US
Tel. +1.2372732

Technical Contact:
Neo net ltd
John Hopking (soft@lastsoft.biz)
PO box 675 , denver .co
Denver
CO,188101
US
Tel. +1.2372732

Billing Contact:
Neo net ltd
John Hopking (soft@lastsoft.biz)
PO box 675 , denver .co
Denver
CO,188101
US
Tel. +1.2372732

Status:ACTIVE

This looks like a phoney address to me - I thought that US zip codes were five digits, not six, and that 'phone numbers were (XXX) YYY-ZZZZ.

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 05-21-2005, 01:53 PM:

They are probably located in East Zxratrcatan, well beyond the 'reach' of the law.

12-14 years ago, a company I worked for did some data switching equipment installs in Basra. The US had a small base there; some kind of continuing 'holdover' presence from WW2 (probably all blown up now.) The Iraq guy who was their import agent would approve the shipment at our place here in the US, then go visit NYC. Iraq apparently had no copyright laws, and this guy would buy copies of Autocad, Windows, Photoshop, etc. and bring them home. He had a business on the side selling software; the price was about $1.75 per disk (software always came on floppies then.) So if Autocad had 12 disks, the price was $21. He'd just keep coping the same disks and sell them.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 05-23-2005, 10:09 AM:

The web site's still up at the moment (15:03 GMT).

A few other clues that it's not legit, some of the product names are incorrect, as are some of the retail prices quoted, and, using 'ISA 2000 Server' (sic) as an example, their maths doesn't seem too good;

Retail Price: $2005.00

We Offer For: $29.95

You Save: $995.00

The wording of their terms & conditions is a bit strange too; doesn't sound like the ones that ligitimate businesses use.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 05-23-2005, 08:55 PM:

Technically speaking, users can only purchase and use software according to terms in the "EULA". In reality there are certain things that make people larger or smaller targets for prosecution. The biggest targets by far are distributors of warez.

In another graphics oriented forum, I know of a rather shockingly naive fellow who thought all clip art was public domain material. He bought some "OEM packaged" stuff from e-bay, downloaded collections from Usenet and elsewhere. Then he packaged all of it together and tried reselling it for the convenience of users everywhere. Now he has all sorts of scary notices coming in from various attorneys who represent clip art software companies. That guy is totally f**ked. He committed glaringly obvious copyright infringement. His move will probably ruin him financially, not just get him into bankruptcy. There's not too many attorneys out there with any sense of sympathy. IMHO, I think many attorneys are borderline sociopaths. Lack of knowledge of copyright law or software licensing agreements between distributors of clip art is no excuse. Normally distributors of warez try to cover their tracks. This guy just got stung from thinking clip art was public domain, which could not be further from the truth.

I still remember an event that happened here in my part of the country a few years ago. The FBI ran a sting and then busted over 200 people in Oklahoma and North Texas, mainly individuals involved with building custom kit computers out of mom and pop type PC shops. It seemed nearly all were using the same copy of Windows over and over in all the PCs they were selling rather than providing a disc and full license with each PC sold. Many felony convictions were handed out over that.

After distributors of warez, the next largest targets are commercial users of illegal software. Companies like Adobe and Autodesk advertise openly that they pursue such cases and offer e-mail links and phone hotlines to report such cases. Autodesk can be particularly aggressive if it is presented with any evidence of a firm using items like cracked copies of Studio3D Max, Cleaner or Combustion.

It's still not out of the question for a casual end user who isn't profiting from having warez software to avoid prosecution. A regular hobbyist is not going to be anywhere near as high a profile target as someone who is sharing or selling ill-gotten apps. But busts can still happen.

The moral: if you have any kind of ability to buy the software you want honestly you better pay for it. You're gambling otherwise.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 05-24-2005, 01:53 AM:

quote: John Walsh
They are probably located in East Zxratrcatan, well beyond the 'reach' of the law.

You're right. In the 'Contact Us' page of their hosting company, their address is given as:

quote:

Address Tartu Peapostkontor
City Tartu
Zip 50001
Country Estonia
Tel No. +372.55647646

That would probably explain why the site is still up, almost three days after Microsoft was told about it. Given that Estonia is now a member state of the European Union, what the operators of this site are doing is most definitely illegal under the 2001 European Union Copyright Directive. But, of course, if Microsoft cares enough to want to nail them, it'll have to hire Estonian lawyers, go through their system and so on and so forth. Given that the site is flogging products by virtually all the main PC software publishers, I guess that this is easier said than done.