This is topic My first Mac will be here Thursday!!! in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Adam Wilbert (Member # 1184) on 06-15-2005, 12:38 AM:
 


After some deliberation, and finding out that i get a discount through my current employer, I just purchased my first mac. A G5 iMac. I'm not switching, but will swing both ways, so to speak. I'll still use my PC laptop for all of my GIS work, but the mac will be my new home desktop. Anyway, I thought I'd get some tips from some reel people to help smooth the transition. I can't wait for it to get here!
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-15-2005, 09:13 AM:
 
We have a Museum of broken Macs somewhere in the office at work. Several old Imacs are in there too. We've been told they are not worth repairing .

Mark
 

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Posted by Jeremy Fuentes (Member # 2135) on 06-15-2005, 09:30 AM:
 
Hopefully it comes with spellcheck.
 

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Posted by Mark Ogden (Member # 43) on 06-15-2005, 09:33 AM:
 
I bought the same machine, an iMac G5 with Bluetooth. I put it up the last week of December, and already I realize that I will never, ever buy another Windows based machine for home use ever again. Its never crashed or frozen, and all the stuff that I plugged into it loaded perfectly. It runs flawlessly, and it's nice to get work done instead of spending time cursing at problems. It's to the point that I resent having to use Windows crap at work. I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that you will start ignoring your laptop and using your Mac exclusively before long.

As far as transfer issues, I had none. Since my old Dell had no CD burner, I wound up buying a USB floppy drive to transfer word.docs, which crossed over with no problem. The OS is very intuitive and easy to use, and has features (like Spotlight) that Windows won't have until Longhorn shows up in late '06, if it ever does. The only annoyance is that there is no right-clicking with Apple's supplied mouse, you have to hold down the control key while clicking to access traditional right-click functions (unless you install a third party dual button USB mouse, which the OS supports). Enjoy it, and have fun picking out your widgets for Dashboard. I recommend the Hula Girl and the Daily Tao.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 06-15-2005, 03:48 PM:
 
Honestly, I hope "Longhorn" doesn't follow Apple's lead and bundle in all those crazy widget thingies. Frankly I can't stand a lot of that shit. It trashes up your desktop, hogs system resources and slows down the performance of a machine.

There's lots and lots of shareware and freeware applets that have been available for a long time to allow PC users to garbage up their machines with everything from live weather updates, news tickers and dancing nude girls on the start button. Some of that stuff is a great avenue for viruses and spyware to infect machines. Just something for Mac users to think about when downloading some new after market dashboard widget not made by Apple.

Certain Internet Service Providers have gotten into the UI desktop pollution act. This is one of the reasons why I love my router and its built in PPPoE setup. I don't have to install any of the SBC/Yahoo! spam-shit software that tries to vandalize the appearance of my computer. Earthlink's software is among the worst I've ever seen in this regard. Purile, screen hogging shit.

Some people may like their computer to resemble a garage overloaded with trash. I don't. If Windows copies the dashboard approach I hope they offer some way to uninstall it.
 

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Posted by Martin Brooks (Member # 1269) on 06-15-2005, 04:52 PM:
 
That's what I thought about Dashboard until I saw some of the widgets. There's some really useful stuff there. And on the Mac, it's very easy to make that stuff disappear. The next update of the OS is going to improve widget housekeeping even more. The update is free to anyone who bought Tiger.

I have used both a Mac and various Wintel machines since each of them first appeared in the market. I started with the old Apple II+ and IIe machines and the very first IBM PC, which came with no hard disk, 2 floppy drives, 16 colors on the display and cost about $5000. Then I managed to get hold of the first Mac and have used many different Macs since.

I'm typing this on a 5 1/2 year old G4. I'm still more productive on this machine than the typical Dell found in most offices where I work. Even on applications that are essentially the same on both platforms (like Photoshop), there are still enough differences that I'm much more productive on the Mac.

You'll never go back. I do however recommend that you get a wireless 2-button mouse with a scroll wheel. Apple's 1-button mouse is absurd.
 

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Posted by Adam Wilbert (Member # 1184) on 06-15-2005, 05:01 PM:
 
I've been using, and like, konfabulator on my pc for widget-like apps. G-mail notifier, iTunes remote, and an analog clock. Most of the widgets are not very useful, but I use these three all the time.



Martin, my birthday is coming up, and a two-button mouse has already made the short list. I like kensington's wireless studio mouse, with a touch pad instead of a scroll wheel.
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 06-15-2005, 05:26 PM:
 
My sympathy to you Adam for such a poor "investment."

THEEEE ***ONLY*** thing an Apple Mac computer is good for is to edit film/video using Final Cut Pro. Other than that, it's a bastard wanna-be in the REAL professional and business world.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-15-2005, 06:16 PM:
 
Phil, you forgot:

DVD Authoring
Music/Sound composing and editing
Photo/graphics manipulation
Special effects compositing
Compression
E-mail
Downloading great porn
Not getting viruses
Decent UI when compared to Windows
Well thought out OS (Windows is poorly put together and thought out)

Other than that, Windows is great for:
Spreadsheets
Power Point Presentations
Surfing the web
Boring stuff

PS-WTF is a widget?
 

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Posted by Adam Wilbert (Member # 1184) on 06-15-2005, 08:59 PM:
 
For better or worse, I'm ready for something new. The mac, at the very least, will be new. I appreciate your concern, Phil. I considered switching to Sun's free Solaris, but since I need new hardware anyway, I thought what the hell. I went through all of the advantages to keeping a pc (upgradeability, software choice, games) and none of that really matters to me anymore. I’m upgrading from an old 1.0g athlon computer that I’ve never once upgraded since I put it together, I only use a core set of programs at home for productivity, all of which are available on the mac, and I haven’t played a game on my PC in years. As long as the mac plays nice with my printer and laptop, I think I’m going to be very happy with it.

Joe, widgets are "fun" little "apps" that "run" on your "desktop" They're eye candy mostly, few of which prove useful.

 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 06-15-2005, 10:48 PM:
 
Joe, even though all of what you posted can be done on a PC as well as a MAC, thanks for enlightening me.
 

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 06-15-2005, 11:19 PM:
 
The first machine I ever programmed was a Monroe 1800-Series programmable calculator.

After that, if you passed my high school computer programming teacher's muster, you would be allowed to graduate to the Wang 2200.

Our physics/science teacher got an Apple ][ later on that year so he could demonstrate principles of science with computer animation. I learned to program that. Not to be outdone, the computer teacher got an Apple ][ with a whopping 64K or memory... AND... a 5-1/4" floppy drive! We were in HEAVEN!

By the time I graduated high school I had my own Apple ][e with the 80 column card, TWO drives and a gargantuan 128K of memory! I had *THE* best computer out of *ANYBODY* as my school... And It was ALL MINE! No more time sharing! I learned to program it in Pascal and even dabbled in machine language.

Macs were just coming out and I had a chance to fiddle with them from time to time. I liked them but the learning curve to programming them at the time was so steep that I never really spent a lot of time at it. In general, I did like what I saw, though.

When I went to college, I took some computer classes working on the college's main frame. Computers were getting coller and cooler all the time. That was when I got my hands on my first IBM PC. At first I thought, "MORE computers! Cool!" That lasted for about 15 minutes. They sucked ass! I tried them for a few days then went back to the main frames and my Apple ][e.

A few years later the Mac IIs came out and I started programming them. There were a few times when I was telling my teachers how to solve problems. All during this time I have tried using various versions of PC/Windows computers from DOS to Windows. I never had more than a passing interest in them. They sucked so bad I couldn't stand to even touch one!

Some time later, I got to be friends with some guys at MIT and I got introduced to the GNU/UNIX world. When you can type, "Meta-X call-el", then walk out to the lobby to have the elevator door open up to greet you, THAT'S the balls!

Then there were several years when I didn't go near computers. A lot of my computer skills have atrophied but I still consider my self proficient.

All this time I have been watching the Windows and Mac worlds to keep proficiency but it wasn't till a few years ago when I got my own computer again. (iMac DV.) I'm starting to get my computer chops back again. Maybe I'll start writing some real software that I can share with people instead of just hacking around on my computer for my own entertainment.

But, to this day, I can hardly stand to sit down in front of a Windows machine. To me, it's the logical equivalent of trying to walk around with a stone stuck in your shoe but you can't get it out. Everything about it feels like a cheap copy of the real thing where stuff has been simply moved around the screen just enough so that they wouldn't get sued. It's all done wrong. Low quality. Slow. Inefficient. Lackluster. Closed-minded. Stupid. Everything about Microsoft sucks. It's a waste of electricity. It should be illegal. C'Mon! You click on the START button to shut the computer OFF!? Really!?

Oh! And if you can't figure out how to use a one button mouse... You've got a problem! I don't use a mouse 1/2 the time anyway. You can access most features of a Mac from the keyboard if you are smart. When I do use a pointing device I use a trackball or a pen tablet. Both have two buttons but they are programmed to be the same.

Let me sum it up like this: If Apple computers cease to exist probably would never own another computer again.

"PC" = "Piece-O-CRAP!"

Adam,

After you have been sitting in front of your new Mac for a while, I predict you will suddenly get the feeling like the heavens have opened up, the angels started singing and suddenly all will seem to be right with the world!
 

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Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 06-15-2005, 11:29 PM:
 
After suffering thru 4 Macs with endless crashes, software that screws up, one replaced twice by the dealer on the office computer and many problems on his personal laptop the boss ditched the Macs and bought an off the shelf machine from Best Buy...he has been amazed at a computer that actually works every day, every time he uses it.

The county I live in (Henrico County) in 2001 put an IBook in the hands of every high school and middle school student. Fortunately they were leased as first the flimsy cases fell off and failed to latch securely enough to keep them closed. Then came the operational problems, and charger problems, then at one point around half of them were locked up and in the warehouse waiting for upgrades to the OS. The fruit company admitted that all the problems were theirs. The original intent was to have the text books in the computer, it was realized early on that these things were not up to the task.

The lease is up at the end of this school year. Bids were solicited and the contract was awarded to Dell for $4 million less than the fruit bid. It will be interesting to see if they fare any better.

There has been very little damage due to abuse by the kids.
About 12,000 to 14,000 computers involved.
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 06-15-2005, 11:40 PM:
 

quote: Randy Stankey

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After you have been sitting in front of your new Mac for a while, I predict you will suddenly get the feeling like the heavens have opened up, the angels started singing and suddenly all will seem to be right with the world

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I agree, Randy. He will die of a heart attack due to the frustration and headed to (PC) heaven.

BTW Joe: Three things Apple does great:
1) Final Cut Pro
2) iPOD
3) Quicktime
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-16-2005, 12:08 AM:
 
Phil,

Video editing can also be done on PC's, just not as gracefully as Final Cut Pro. There are no PC DVD authoring apps anywhere near as good as DVD Studio Pro. Sony has something that comes with Vegas Video, but it is retarded and has a horrible UI. If you like SDDS you will like Sony's video apps. I already stated that Macs download much better porn than PC's (PC users only get ugly whores like Jenna Jameson). Also, PC users can't compress video stuff as well. Look at all of the video files on the net that are in the WMV format. Look how awful they are! WMV sucks so much ass, only people with chronic diarrhea dare use that crusty format. Also, it is a known fact that people who use Windows PCs are ugly.

iPods are fucking stupid. I say that because I do not have one. But I don't like DRM of any kind.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 06-16-2005, 12:41 AM:
 
There are a few decent DVD authoring applications on the PC side. The problem is the ones that do all of what DVD Studio Pro does cost quite a bit more money.

Pinnacle Liquid Edition Pro is about the only reasonably affordable ($999) solution that can deliver good results. The "pro" version has a pretty nice breakout box. If someone insists on using the PC platform for "prosumer" video work, I would recommend using Liquid Edition Pro in conjunction with Adobe After Effects. It beats the crap out of Adobe's arguably embarrasing first effort at a video and DVD creation suite.

Apple delivers a hell of a bargain in its Production Suite. For $1299 you get four solid applications. On the PC side, I would have to buy a combination of applications Avid, DigiDesign and Adobe to have a setup matching those features. That would be a pretty expensive collection of software.

Regarding Windows, I'm not the smartest guy in the world, but WinXP is a pretty damned easy operating system to use. I think you have to be Rainman stupid not to be able to find your way around on a PC. The difference between it and the MacOS is definitely not the extreme being characterized by others. I also don't agree with the judgment that Photoshop is somehow laid out more efficiently in OSX than it is on Windows. The toolset is all the same -especially in the new CS2 version.

I'd still like to have a Mac-based system -but that's only so I can use that Apple Production Suite. The applications are the only thing that matters. OS cheerleading or bashing is just silly.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-16-2005, 01:04 AM:
 

quote: Bobby Henderson

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I also don't agree with the judgment that Photoshop is somehow laid out more efficiently in OSX than it is on Windows.

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quote: Joe Redifer

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One thing I do like better about Mac Photoshop, though, is that it doesn't put a grey box behind my work making the app cover the entire screen.

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quote: Randy Stankey

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I don't use a mouse 1/2 the time anyway. You can access most features of a Mac from the keyboard if you are smart.

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quote: Randy Stankey

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Both have two buttons but they are programmed to be the same.

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quote: Adam Wilbert

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I like it that way (with the grey background). I think it cleans up the workspace.

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quote: Joe Redifer

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Just click the mouse and hold.

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quote: Joe Redifer

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for people who shun efficiency when opening new files via drag-and-drop

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quote: Joe Redifer

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There are no PC DVD authoring apps anywhere near as good as DVD Studio Pro.

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quote:

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C'Mon! You click on the START button to shut the computer OFF!? Really!?

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Wheras on a Mac, pre system X, you click on the 'special' menu to do the same thing. What's so 'special' about shutting the thing down.

The first x86 machines I worked on were Research Machines Nimbus. Ran MS/Dos, but the bios, and some of the hardware was not IBM pompatible, though an emulator was available to run some CGA software. Windows 1, and later 2, was available for it, this was a special version, though standard versions of Windows applications could then be run, though almost all software was DOS then, Dos version was 3.1. In almost all ways that the RM equipment differed from the IBM pc the RM one was better, 720k 3.5 inch floppies, 20MB. internal, and/or up to 60MB. external hard disks via SASI interface. Slightly higher vertical resolution, and more colours on screen than CGA, more 'usable' memory than the 640MB. The processor was an Intel 80186, not widely used, but basically an 8086 with a few extra components on board, and a few extra instructions, which nobody used, because hardly any other machines would be able to run the code.

I had previously worked on 8080 and Z80, and remember being rather dubious about a processor with a 24 bit address bus, but only 16 bit index reqisters. It could be a real pain doing things like sorting large (to big for one segment) data, and having to deal with long pointers, fiddle around with segment registers, etc.
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 06-16-2005, 12:07 PM:
 

quote: Joe

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-Try to piss off Phil simply because he uses a PC and for no other reason. It is great fun, and as you can see I am having a fantastic time knowing that I have PWND him.

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Me thinks you got that back-asswards, Joe. I make one, tiny, anti-Mac post and a couple of pesky follow-ups and you take the bait hook, line, and sinker!

BTW: You assume I like the PC over the Mac. Actually I usually use my Atari 800 running at 1.79MHz with 48k of RAM.

(I can hear the Apple II crowd winding up now...)
 

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Posted by Adam Wilbert (Member # 1184) on 06-16-2005, 12:25 PM:
 
Thanks Joe! I'll have to look up how to add the scroll arrows to both ends of the bar.
Mike: Don't spend too much time on this. links to online resources that I might not have come across yet would also prove helpful.

quote: Joe Redifer

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In the sharing prefs, turn on personal file sharing as well as Windows sharing. This will let your Windows computer see and network seamlessly with the Mac.

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quote: Mike Blakesley

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If that list of Joe's constitutes the major advantages of Mac over Windows, then I don't see what all the shouting's about.

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not advantages per se, just some things that might work differently between the two OSs. Thats going to be my biggest hurdle. I don't think that anything is going to be significantly harder or easier to do, it'll just be different.

I do have a question though. As far as browsers go, whats the difference between mozilla firefox and mozilla camino? Other than the fact that I associate camino with those creepy white aliens in SW:EP2, camino is "made for the mac" where firefox is just ported
 

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 06-16-2005, 12:26 PM:
 

quote: Stephen Furley

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Wheras on a Mac, pre system X, you click on the 'special' menu to do the same thing.

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quote: Randy Stankey

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Nope. You click the power button on the keyboard then, when the confirmation dialog comes up, press RETURN on the keyboard.

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quote: Randy Stankey

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If your Mac crashes too much (or crashes AT ALL in OS X) something's wrong with it. I help manage an office with 6 Macs. Before I got there they had crash problems left and right. Now they hardly have a problem. The NUMBER ONE offender in crashing Pre-OS X Macs is extensions conflicts. And, in my experience, the number one offender in extensions conflicts is Microsoft. Adobe is a close second.

If you reign-in all the extensions installed by Microsoft/Adobe products I can guarantee that your computer problems will be dramatically reduced.

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Microsoft has always installed loads of junk, one reason I prefer to use Linux, rather than Windows, for things like DNS and DHCP servers. Install only what's needed, don't use X, just run them in text mode. No GUI using up resources, much less code running, therefore likely to be far fewer bugs, the thing can stay up for years. Windows servers often need to be re-booted after a few weeks, and after installing most updates. If I want a graphical interface to manage something running on a Linux box I use Webmin.
 

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 06-16-2005, 01:40 PM:
 
I enjoy using a GUI if it's well designed. Apple's latest incarnations are good but not the best they have done. I have NEVER found a Microsoft GUI that didn't give me the feeling like I was walking though a "Hall of Mirrors". X-11 is tolerable if you are willing to learn it.

However, command line interface is the most efficient. Not only does it waste less "computes" it's more efficient for the user to operate. A person who knows how to type never needs to move their hands off the keyboard. Using a mouse forces the user to move his hands then realign them to the home keys when he wants to type again. Chasing a mouse all over the desktop is less than efficient as well. That's why I use a track ball.]

During the days of Mac System 6 & 7 is the time when system extensions became popular. At that time there were a few people writing some quite useful ones. One was an ext. that would allow you to power down the computer at the stroke of the keyboard. Yo programmed the sequence to whatever you wanted. (CMD-CTL-Q for instance.)

After that is when I took my hiatus from computers. It wasn't until I got my iMac that I started working with them again. By that time the power button could be used to power the computer on and off. I know that some models can do it and some can't. Virtually all Macs made today can do it.

If you want a really good example of how Adobe can really bung up a computer, try installing their PostScript printer driver using the automatic installer!

Their installer installs the driver and the PPDs necessary to access the printer but it also ERASES the current "PrintingLib" (Printing Library Routines) extension and replaces it with an EARLIER version that's INCOMPATIBLE with Mac OS 9! If you run the installer and let it operate as it is programmed you will be unable to print ANYTHING with your regular print driver unless you reinstall the system! (Or if you're savvy, just part of it.)

The workaround is to go into your extensions folder and remove the PrintingLib extension to the desktop before running the installer. When it's finished you replace the extension that Adobe installed with the original. Your computer will work normally.

This is well-known and is documented at Apple.com

As you can see, this is NOT APPLE'S FAULT! It is the fault of Adobe, HP and others who use that crappy installer even after they have been told that it will bung up your system!

As a matter of fact, when I get a call from sombeody asking for help with their Mac, one of the first questions I ask is, "Have you installed ANYTHING from Adobe?" 9 times out of 10 the answer is yes. This kind of thing is so common that I now have a 120 GB external dual-interface (USB/FW) hard drive with all of the files needed to resurrect a hosed system. In most cases, all I have to do is plug in the drive and drop the proper files/extensions back into their proper places and the problem is solved.

I hear a lot of people complain that their Macs crash too much. The overwhelming cause is an extensions conflict caused by running some installer that blows the system all to hell... 3rd party crap that fouls up the computer. The next most popular cause is people who tinker with things they shouldn't.

I will tell you flat out: The people who are the most vocal about their Macs crashing are almost ALWAYS the people who abuse their computers the most.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-16-2005, 02:37 PM:
 
DVD Studio Pro is a stand alone program and can be used by itself. It is more expensive for Europeans because you tried to tax our tea and we did not appreciate that. So now you pay more for DVD Studio Pro. We thought long and hard about this as a country, and charging more for DVD Studio Pro seemed fair.

Adam, in the System Preferences you can modify the scroll arrows. That's where you can make a lot of changes.

There is indeed a keyboard shortcut to get to the POWER OF/SLEEP/RESTART menu. I forget what it is because I normally just touch the light on my monitor or 1/1000th of a second and the computer goes to sleep or wakes up.

My Mac hasn't crashed in a looong time:

 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 06-16-2005, 06:55 PM:
 
In an earlier post, I said, "I also don't agree with the judgment that Photoshop is somehow laid out more efficiently in OSX than it is on Windows."

quote: Martin Brooks

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Even on applications that are essentially the same on both platforms (like Photoshop), there are still enough differences that I'm much more productive on the Mac.

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quote: Joe Redifer

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One thing I do like better about Mac Photoshop, though, is that it doesn't put a grey box behind my work making the app cover the entire screen. I hate that. I can't figure out how to get rid of it on Windows.

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The PC version of Photoshop has been able to have open images and toolbars float over the desktop since as far back as I can remember. Here's a screenshot of my PC PSD CS2 installation not hogging the entire desktop with grey:

quote: Joe Redifer

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Working around in Windows sucks because you have to go into My Computer to navigate the hard drives.

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quote: Randy Stankey

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I will tell you flat out: The people who are the most vocal about their Macs crashing are almost ALWAYS the people who abuse their computers the most.

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quote: Joe Redifer

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Also how do I get Windows Photoshop to resize the canvas window as I zoom in and out like it does automatically on the Mac?

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quote: Joe Redifer

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Also is that Duran Duran vector the only graphic image you have? It pops up in all your graphical screen grabs.

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I posted this one in the wallpaper thread a few days ago. We have had some strange yet beautiful storm clouds in our area lately.



I have wallpapers of all sorts of other stuff, like Nine Inch Nails imagery or pics of the $250 million "Dallas High Five" superhighway interchange project in North Dallas. But I do like that Pat Nagel illustration, not to mention it took a long time to vectorize a scan of it and organize the objects into useful form. It also made for a cleaner background to use to demonstrate that Photoshop desktop thingie.

quote: Joe Redifer

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By the way, clicking the START button is still an extra step. Also, how can a menu or a folder be similar to the entire desktop on a Mac?

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Explorer isn't really a folder or menu. It's just an expandable tree like view of your computer's installation. Everything is there in one place, including a folder for your desktop and the desktop of other users on that machine. Explorer is not the most visually pleasing tool to use, but I prefer it to the alternative of cycling between one window after another and another and another to get around in that "My Computer" garbage.
 

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Posted by Adam Wilbert (Member # 1184) on 06-16-2005, 08:29 PM:
 
explorer works even better if you create a shortcut, and change the target (right click, select prefrences) to "%SystemRoot%\explorer.exe /n, /e, /select, C:\". This will open your c:\ drive (or whatever path you type at the end) as the default instead of expanding "my documents" as the default.

On the PC, alt-f4 is the shortcut to bring up the shutdown menu, since everyone is on this "macs can shut down from the keyboard" kick.

Not that anyone cares, but my package won't arrive until tomorrow now...
 

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Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 06-16-2005, 10:03 PM:
 

quote: Randy Stankey

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As you can see, this is NOT APPLE'S FAULT! It is the fault of Adobe, HP and others who use that crappy installer even after they have been told that it will bung up your system!

As a matter of fact, when I get a call from sombeody asking for help with their Mac, one of the first questions I ask is, "Have you installed ANYTHING from Adobe?" 9 times out of 10 the answer is yes. This kind of thing is so common that I now have a 120 GB external dual-interface (USB/FW) hard drive with all of the files needed to resurrect a hosed system. In most cases, all I have to do is plug in the drive and drop the proper files/extensions back into their proper places and the problem is solved.

I hear a lot of people complain that their Macs crash too much. The overwhelming cause is an extensions conflict caused by running some installer that blows the system all to hell... 3rd party crap that fouls up the computer. The next most popular cause is people who tinker with things they shouldn't.

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I think this pretty much sums up the case for Windows PC's as well. If you never install any third party apps, and never install any additional devices, I'm sure Windows XP would be pretty darn error-free.

That said, in the years that I've been using Windows XP, I've found it to be very stable and a huge improvement over its predecessors.

I'd love to give a Mac a try, but so far no one has taken me up on my request to get one for free. I think the Mini would make a great addition, but $500 plus monitor, keyboard, and mouse is still too steep for me. Someday, my curiousity will get the best of me...
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-16-2005, 10:16 PM:
 

quote: Bobby Henderson

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Unfortunately, Adobe is one of the few companies that use this Mac-like behavior with their PC versions.

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quote: Joe Redifer

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I do not understand what Mac-like behavior you are speaking of, but Mac-like behavior is much better than Windows-like behavior.

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quote: Bobby Henderson

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buy a full version of Windows

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quote: Source: PCWorld.com
If Apple Computer ever decides to let its Mac OS X operating system outside of its confines, the company may see Dell founder and chairman Michael Dell as a customer.

With the recent news that Apple plans to become a fellow Intel customer for x86 processors, Dell has expressed interest in selling Mac OS X-based PCs, Dell said in an e-mail to Fortune published on the magazine's Web site today.

"If Apple decides to open the Mac OS to others, we would be happy to offer it to our customers," Dell wrote in the e-mail. A Dell spokesperson confirmed Thursday that the e-mail exchange took place.

One-Sided
Apple, however, is not keen on striking a deal with the world's largest PC vendor.

"Mac OS X will only run on Macs. Apple has no plans to sell Mac OS X software to run on PCs," an Apple spokesperson said in an e-mail response to questions about Dell.

Dell's interest in Mac OS X raises numerous questions about how such a partnership would work. Dell's current PC product strategy is famously one-sided: Microsoft's Windows operating system and Intel's processors for all. Dell executives believe this arrangement allows them to keep their operating costs as low as possible.

However, Mac OS X, with its Unix underpinnings and secure reputation, might pique the interests of many IT managers looking for a low-cost PC that is easy to maintain. And Dell's position as the industry market-share leader could expose Mac OS to a much wider range of users.

Close to the Vest
But Apple can't afford to let Mac OS X loose right now, says Roger Kay, vice president of client computing with research firm IDC. If Mac OS X could be separated from Apple's hardware, hackers would have pirated copies of the operating system out on the streets with little delay, he says. This would cause great harm to Apple's business model, which emphasizes its tight control over the entire combination of hardware and software as a premium product, he says.

At least one analyst believes that Apple is due for a day of reckoning with this strategy, especially now that it plans to move to x86 chips. Nathan Brookwood, principal analyst with Insight 64 in Saratoga, California, thinks it is only a matter of time before someone in the PC industry sues Apple for "tying" its operating system to a specific type of hardware available only from Apple.

Digidyne, then a division of Fairchild Camera and Instrument, successfully pursued a tying case against Data General in the 1980s, in which Data General was rapped for licensing its Nova operating system only to purchasers of its hardware.

"If you sell software that can run on hardware that you do make and hardware that you don't make, you cannot require people to buy your hardware to run your software," Brookwood says. If Dell really wanted to sell Mac OS X hardware, it could force the issue through the legal system, he says.

Stumbling Blocks
Dell's interest in Mac OS X also appears to run counter to its processor strategy. The Round Rock, Texas, company's reluctance to use chips from Advanced Micro Devices is based partly on the additional costs Dell would incur setting up a product development and testing team for AMD's products, Dell chief executive officer Kevin Rollins said at the company's analyst meeting in April.

However, supporting a second operating system would involve training thousands of Dell employees on the ins and outs of Mac OS X and setting up separate product development teams. Dell is willing to do this for its server customers interested in the Linux operating system, but the company ended Linux support for consumer PCs several years ago. Large business customers can still get Linux PCs or workstations through Dell by special arrangement.

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quote: Joe Redifer

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Also how do I get Windows Photoshop to resize the canvas window as I zoom in and out like it does automatically on the Mac? In Windows (if I used it, which I DON'T) if I zoom in on an image, the canvas remains the same size and gives me scroll arrows even though the larger image could easily fit onscreen.

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quote: Scott Jentsch

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If you never install any third party apps, and never install any additional devices, I'm sure Windows XP would be pretty darn error-free.

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quote: Bobby Henderson

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Dell does sell lots of servers and workstations with Linux loaded.

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The only problem is is that if you want to run anything but RedHat Enterprise Linux you're pretty much screwed. Even with the two guys running & supporting http://linux.dell.com/ you're out of luck or in for a lot of unnecessary work if you've got one of many of Dell's RAID controllers such as the CERC 6 channel SATA RAID controller.

Nice card, bad driver support.
 

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 06-17-2005, 05:45 PM:
 
I do have to agree that the latest versions of PhotoShop have been largely trouble free.

However, there are enough people still installing that crappy version of Adobe's PostScript printer driver and "Full Installs" of PageMaker which infect your system with f'ed-up versions of Adobe Type Manager and screen fonts that you have to be on your toes.

There was one version of Photoshop (I think it was "Photoshop LE") that tried to install the "latest update" of Adobe Acrobat. However, if you had a newer version it would install the old one in place of the new. I had one instance where a person who ran that installer actually "DOWNdated" from Acrobat 4.0 to Acrobat 3.x! Then, when they tried to open a PDF file the computer barfed because V3.x couln't open the file!

One thing I virtually always do when faced with an automatic installer package is to see if there is a "Custom" option whereby you can select/deselect things to be installed. If there is an "Output Installation Log" option it will be checked. Also, I virtually never install all of the "Help & Tutorial" files that most installers seem to fill up your hard drive with. People don't use that crap after the first few times anyway. Why waste the space?

Automatic installers (AKA: "Wizards") are the bane of all computers everywhere!
 

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Posted by Dylan Marchetti (Member # 2764) on 06-17-2005, 06:11 PM:
 
Everytime I try to convert someone to the cult of Mac, they resist and resist and resist, until they realize

A) you can use your monitor, mouse, keyboard, whatever. The Apple mouse is indeed for idiots...even us hardcore Mac people buy a two button scroll mouse, and it works fine.

B) your programs really won't crash. PCs are comprised of thousands of different components from thousands of different companies, and software is bound to snag on something. Macs are all designed by the same people, so the software only has to work with a select 20 or 30 computers. Think about it- when was the last time your PS2 crashed (frisbee discs notwithstanding)?

you'll never go back. seriously.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-17-2005, 06:39 PM:
 

quote: Dylan Marchetti

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when was the last time your PS2 crashed

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Playstation 2s are known for being notoriously unreliable, especially the earlier versions.

[ 06-18-2005, 08:43 PM: Message edited by: Joe Redifer ]
 

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Posted by Mike Heenan (Member # 392) on 06-17-2005, 06:51 PM:
 
FCP has crashed for me every now and then on my Mac, so Mac's aren't 100% crash proof.
 

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 06-17-2005, 07:23 PM:
 
The application crashed & not the system.

OS X and any other running applications will remain stable even if one app crashes. In fact, the Finder can crash, leaving all your running apps intact. The Finder will restart and life will continue. Now, if this happens too often it is wise to restart the system. If it STILL keeps happening you should give your Mac a checkup.

Officially, OS X doesn't crash. It has kernel panics.
(Toe-MAH-Toe... Toe-MAY-toe... )

Before somebody jumps on me... Yes, XP does operate in a similar fashion but nowhere near as smoothly. If you get one application crash every now and again there is no problem. But, if you have more than one, you had better restart the system soon or else you will have a panic.

Yeah, I know some things about Windows but, to me, using Microsoft products is like being forced to eat a shit sandwich!
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 06-17-2005, 07:32 PM:
 
No operating system is perfect. The Mac versus PC debate has always had those broad claims "Macs never crash; PCs crash all the time" when the reality is something a lot farther in between. As far as Windows goes, the most crash prone versions have been those consumer aimed releases (Win95, Win98 and especially WinME). I rarely have any problems with Win2000 or WinXP Pro.

Some applications have had big problems under MacOSX -Macromedia Freehand 10 was arguably the biggest offender out of graphics applications. Macromedia rushed it market to grab the title "first OSX graphics app." It ran like crap. To anger FH users further (and cause many defections to Illustrator), Macromedia never patched FH10! Freehand users were left with using an earlier version of Freehand in classic mode or waiting until FreehandMX shipped -and having to pay an upgrade price to fix the bugs in FH10. The PC version of FH10 wasn't glitch free either, but didn't have all the hangups of its OSX counterpart. Still, if you were a Freehand user on the PC platform you would likey have been better off reinstalling FH8 or FH9. This episode is primarily why Freehand will die as part of the Adobe Macromedia merger. It will be discontinued in favor of Illustrator. That's kind of a shame considering it had an arguably better printing engine and some very handy vector editing Xtras.

quote: Dylan Marchetti

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Macs are all designed by the same people, so the software only has to work with a select 20 or 30 computers.

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MacOSX does have an advantage in that it only has to be compatible with a limited amount of hardware, and the software has to be written for that limited product line.

I think Apple can still maintain a good amount of that control even it is sells OSX in manner that users can install it on non Apple-branded machines. They'll eventually have to do this anyway. But I think Apple should have some kind of software and hardware certification standard. If a developer wants to have a product run under OSX it should meet some very strict requirements.

Microsoft purposefully avoided enforcing any kind of quality control standards on Windows, especially in its early days. This helped make it easier and MUCH CHEAPER for software developers to make applications for Windows. It also earned the PC platform a reputation of being unstable and very crash prone. Still, it was just "good enough." Illegal business practices helped sideline superior Intel-based operating systems, such as IBM's OS/2.
 

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Posted by Mike Heenan (Member # 392) on 06-17-2005, 08:17 PM:
 
Doh, sorry, I should have said either that Mac programs aren't 100% perfect or that programs aren't crash proof on the mac.
 

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Posted by Adam Wilbert (Member # 1184) on 06-23-2005, 11:36 PM:
 
MACS ARE AWESOME! I threw all of my PCs away. I had to pay to dispose of them properly, but it was worth it to get that trash out of my house!!!

Okay, not really. This is a really nice machine though, and I think i've gotten all of the kinks worked out, everything is wirelessly networked now, printers are cooperating between platforms. I've got a 250G external hard drive that is formated NTFS that the mac can't write to though... That was unexpected. Does anyone know what I will lose by reformating it to FAT32 so that it is useable by both systems? space efficiency? speed? Other than that, everything is cool... and I'm having fun still.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-24-2005, 12:04 AM:
 
Just hook the drive up to the PC, share it and network to it through the Mac and it should be able to write to it. NTFS is proprietary MS I think, and FAT32 will not work either. FAT is bad because, ummm... I can't remember. But all things fat are bad. Mac is HFS+ or simply Mac OS Extended (journaled or not).
 

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 06-24-2005, 06:30 AM:
 
You could format the drive as UFS (Unix File System) and the Mac could read it but I doubt whether the PC could.

Where do you intend to use it the most?

You could format it as a DOS volume. Both Mac and PC can read it, abeit slowly. Or you could format it for the machine where you will use it the most and transfer data to/from it via network share.

Honestly, I'd just format it as HFS+ and be done with it.
 

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Posted by Adam Wilbert (Member # 1184) on 06-24-2005, 03:38 PM:
 
i use the drive mostly with my pc laptop because it holds all of my very large LiDAR elevation data and airphotos for my GIS (Geographic Information Systems) work, among other things. Since my laptop doesn't have a permanent location, I thought it would be nice to use it through the mac. But since I can't work on the laptop and save through the mac, I'll have to work out something else. oh well.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-24-2005, 04:43 PM:
 
You could if you reformatted the drive to be Mac compatible. The PC could read and write to it through the network, and only the network.
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 06-25-2005, 02:36 AM:
 

quote: Adam Wilbert

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...my very large LiDAR elevation data ...

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Ya know Adam, I for one have NO clue as to what that refers to...it sorta sounds pornographic.

While I think Randy is smokin' too much of that college I-30 stuff, I agree with Joe with MOST of his yapping.

I'm sorta thinking of buying an apple... Oops! I mean an Apple. What drove me to that thought is I get soooo pissed at my Windows 95
 

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Posted by Adam Wilbert (Member # 1184) on 06-25-2005, 07:42 PM:
 
lidar is high res elevation data, taken by lasers from space. You can tell the difference between the elevation of a road, and the elevation of the curb and sidewalk. But, yes, I do also keep all of my high res porn on the external drive.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 01-10-2006, 07:58 PM:
 
Bumping this thread.

Today at MacWorld 2006, Steve Jobs gave his keynote speech and introduced the first Intel-based Macs: a new line of notebooks (the MacBook Pro) and new iMacs. Both use the new Intel Core Duo processor. There's a big splash about it on the main page of Apple's website.

Not mentioned during the speech, but noted on the website, many of Apple's applications are in the process of being ported to the new Intel lineup. A "universal" version of Final Cut Studio is scheduled for release in March.

The new Intel Core Duo iMacs are available now. The new notebooks will start shipping next month.

One strange note on FCP, all the Final Cut applications are no longer available to purchase separately. You have to purchase the whole suite. Probably can't complain much about that. All the other rivals seem to be moving in that direction. Avid Liquid and Xpress work pretty much as application suites. Adobe is trying to get their act together in that regard. It still remains to be seen how Autodesk is going to get full NLE and DVD creation capabilities behind Cleaner, Combustion and their other specialized Discreet applications.
 

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Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 01-11-2006, 04:25 PM:
 
I don't have any of these problems with my MACs. In fact they have always been quite tasty! Louis
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-11-2006, 06:44 PM:
 
If you lead a fast paced life style the one good thing is that your mac will slow that down.

Mark
 

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Posted by Mike Heenan (Member # 392) on 01-11-2006, 07:41 PM:
 
Interesting comment mark, as my "old" G4 mac desktop outperforms my Pentium 4 2.8ghz in every way... and no I'm not a rabid Mac-phile either, that's just the way it is for mine.
 

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Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 01-11-2006, 08:16 PM:
 
Supposedly Jobs claims that the new Intel-based Apples will be 2-4 times faster than the G5. Not the CPU speed - Faster in performing real work. This strikes me as a rather odd claim, given that we've had it pounded into our heads for years now that the Apple hardware runs circles around WinTel systems and CPU speed in GHz is of minor importance. All you poor suckers running G4s and G5s must have gotten screwed!
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 01-11-2006, 08:21 PM:
 
CPUs alone say very little about the configuration and comparative speed of two different computers.

Other factors to consider:
RAM (amount and type), hard disc (size, available space, spindle speed, cache), video card (GPU clock speed, type of RAM and how much), motherboard (chipset type, front side bus speed), installed operating system, FAT method used in hard disc partition, etc., etc., etc. I'm sure there's other stuff I left out.

All of those other variables likely play into the Apple's new boasts that the new MacBook Pro (using the 2GHz Intel Core Duo) is 4 times faster than their last generation of Powerbooks.
 

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Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 01-11-2006, 09:02 PM:
 
I'm aware of all that. That's why Apple and its diehard supporters have claimed for years that Apple's superior hardware design resulted in systems that could get more work done more quickly than WinTel systems with faster CPUs. So if the old claims were true, and the new claims are also true, the Intel-based Apples must be an order of magnitude faster than current WinTel machines (as in like 10 times faster).

Highly unlikely.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-11-2006, 09:37 PM:
 

quote: Bobby Henderson

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CPUs alone say very little about the configuration and comparative speed of two different computers.

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