quote: Gordon McLeod

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up here most landlord require one year of post dated rent checks as part of the terms of any lease

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Are you serious? I've never heard of such a thing. That doesn't even sound legal. Don't ask me why, it just doesn't.
 

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Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 08-15-2005, 04:23 PM:
 
It is perfectly legal and the landlord thus has the guarentee of his rent since if the cheque bounces then he can go after you for fraud since you have in effect issued a bad cheque
Most rental companys ask for post dated cheques
In fact on some installations that have payment terms over a year we insist on a post dated cheque for each due payment
 

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Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 08-15-2005, 04:36 PM:
 
Are there accompying laws about the return of these post dated checks to the tennant if the lease is broken early? What if some sort of property damager-water, wind, fire, etc-occurs and thus the tennant is liable for a smaller portion of rent? As an example, if you were renting a place that included a garage and the garage burned down you would then have to pay rent only for the portion of the property that was still usable to you, at least that's the law in Wisconsin.
 

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Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 08-15-2005, 04:49 PM:
 
I beleive post dated cheques have to be returned at the termination of a lease
but most leases do have clauses regarding damage bonds and a clause of one months rent can be forfiet for damage
As for property rent change I don't know a landlord here is more or less requried to maintain the location so if a garage burns down then it has to be replaced but its cost could reflect in a rent increase
 

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Posted by Jim Ziegler (Member # 86) on 08-15-2005, 04:50 PM:
 
In the U.S. you could not charge someone with fraud if a post dated rent check bounced unless it could be proven that the check was written with the intent to defraud. If someone has unexpected bills and the post dated check bounces, typically, the most that could be done to them is to take them to civil court.
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-15-2005, 05:49 PM:
 
Banks are trying their hardest to do away with checks altogether. They would like nothing more than to get rid of all paper instruments (including cash money) and have everything be electronic. When this happens (and it will), the first big terror attack on the internet and/or electrical grid will be the biggest disaster this country has ever seen.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 08-15-2005, 06:02 PM:
 
Why not just write "dated" instead of the non-word "date-ed"?
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-15-2005, 07:44 PM:
 
Since I travel alot and can't always get my payola deposited in my accounts consistantly I have arranged with my Credit Union to cover my checks up to X amount even is there are not sufficient funds. They charge for this service but its not very expensive(cheaper than credit cards fees) and has been handy a few times over the years. This is a service that no regular Bank in Utah seems to offer and is just another GOOD readon to be setup at a Credit Union instead of a bank. Also since my Credit Union is a Federally Chartered setup thay are not goverened by other stupid state banking laws. It really pisses the banks off around here to the point that every legislative session they try to get new restrictive legislation through on the Credit Unions.... never passes though.....

Mark
 

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Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 08-15-2005, 09:04 PM:
 
That's pretty much everywhere in the US Mark. The banking industry is very concerned about the rise of credit unions and sponsors bills to curb credit union recruiting and growth wherever they can. Saw this myself when I sat on the board of directors for the Stage Employees FCU here.

I've always done my banking through credit unions, either with the Stage Employees FCU or the Hughes Aircraft Employees FCU (now Kinetca) in SoCal. Never went with overdraft protection myself, but with Hughes and PanAmSat I had direct deposit of my paychecks. The money was always there when I needed it. Here I didn't bother with direct deposit since I had so many employers and the "locals" casinos all have pretty good paycheck-cashing giveaway incentives.

Don't know how Nevada handles check dating. I haven't written a check in years.

I put on quite a few hours in my early piloting career flying the float (canceled checks) overnight between here and Reno and Burbank. Talk about another job made obsolete by technology.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-15-2005, 09:40 PM:
 
Well, my expereince with my Credit Union has only been positive and I seriously doubt that I would ever go back to a bank again. Banks really do suck big time.

Mark
 

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Posted by Thomas Dieter (Member # 2507) on 08-16-2005, 01:00 AM:
 

quote: Bill Enos

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If ya ain't got the money, why are you writing checks?

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quote: Joe Redifer

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Why not just write "dated" instead of the non-word "date-ed"?

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Cause I couldn't remember how it was spelled, and dated looked incorrect.
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 08-16-2005, 01:25 AM:
 
(Deleted double post) Hey! K-Y, remove this post!
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 08-16-2005, 01:25 AM:
 

quote: Joe Redifer

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Why not just write "dated" instead of the non-word "date-ed"?

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JFC Joe, sometimes you're sooo dense! Everyone knows that "date-ed" is the freshman business college course on how to float and kite checks!

In the other colleges, it' a course of the proper etiquette of dating. You know... How many times to pay for dinner before ya get to the sex.
 

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Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 08-16-2005, 01:33 AM:
 

quote: Gordon McLeod

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As for property rent change I don't know a landlord here is more or less requried to maintain the location so if a garage burns down then it has to be replaced but its cost could reflect in a rent increase

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quote: Matt Fields

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and his main gripe with them was they did not have to pay income tax on their profits likes banks do.

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quote: Matt Fields

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Why the animosity towards banks?

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quote: Matt Fields

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Being in business is simply the ability to borrow money.

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I think your friend is putting the bank way before the customer... he ought to get his head examined! A buisness thats run properly and built up in a strong fashion doesn't need to borrow money. Borrowing money costs money and your bank will in all likelyhood make more than you on a loan.

So yes, Credit Unions as Mitchell and others pointed out provide a clear(and legal) advantage over banks. In the long run there is probably very little that banks will be able to do about them except spend their profits and yours towards an endless fight with Credit Unions.

America First Credit Union

Could the economy get along without banks.... absolutely! Banks control the economy while Credit Unions help boost the economy.... to you which one is better? If Credit Unions replaced Banks tommrrow in a short time we'd have a much stronger economy because Credit Union members and Buisness members pay much lower fees and have more money to spend and job employment numbers would go up as a result .

Mark
 

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Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 08-18-2005, 04:22 AM:
 
Cheques have virtually disappeared as a way of paying for things here, so much so that a recent BBC Online story reports a bank spokesman's belief that they'll have disappeared completely by 2025. There are three electronic options for transferring money out of your current account to someone else: debit card, direct debit and standing order.

A debit card is just like a credit card (most are Visa) only the money is taken directly from your bank account there and then, rather than added to a credit account which is paid off at the end of the month. I don't know if these are used much outside Britain, but for non-regular and/or electronic payments these have virtually taken over from cheques here.

Direct debits and standing orders are issued by you to your bank authorising a specified third party to take money directly from your account. The difference is that a standing order allows you to specify the amount and frequency, whereas a direct debit allows the third party to take what (s)he likes when (s)he likes. For example, I have a standing order which transfers my rent from my account to my landlord's: this is on the same day each month and is a sum I determine. When the landlord raises my rent, he tells me and I tell the bank; ditto if he decides that he wants the rent on another day. Utility companies are very keen for people to use direct debit, as they can help themselves to however much your gas bill is electronically without any human being being involved in the process. So their processing costs are much lower than with cheque or one-off debit card payments. Personally I don't like DDs, because I've heard lots of horror stories about payment errors followed by a nightmare trying to get your money back. Basically, when these big corporations have got some of your money they shouldn't have, you've got the problem getting it back again. For that reason I pay for virtually everything by one-off card payments and standing orders, because with both of those methods, you're in complete control of how much you're paying and when you're paying it. I probably only write 3 or 4 cheques a year now, if that.

I don't know if it's the law or just standard banking practice, but post-dated cheques can't be cashed until the date on the cheque.

The nearest thing we have to credit unions are organisations called building societies, which accept cash deposits from savers and then lend the money to homeowners as mortgages. They are 'societies' in that a saver or lender is considered to be a 'member', and can vote at the Annual General Meeting as a shareholder in a bank can. The organisation doesn't pay dividends to shareholders, and can therefore offer better interest rates than a bank can. However, its capitalisation is limited by the amount of deposits it holds, and for that reason a number of building societies 'demutualised' into banks in the mid-90s, so they could attract other investment. Some of the remaining building societies then started offering other services, e.g. current accounts, in an attempt to compete; with the result that there's very little practical difference between the two, now. The only real difference I can see is that building societies tend to offer slightly better savings rates but not as many features on current accounts (e.g. no internet banking facility, ATM card can only be used in a very few machines without charge).
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 08-18-2005, 07:51 AM:
 
Debit cards are increasing in popularity in the US, although they do not have the $50 maximum liability for fraudulant use like credit cards do. This makes carrying around a debit card roughly analogous to carrying around a checkbook full of blank, signed checks. Some banks offer their own liability limits, but they are not required to do so by law (as are credit card issuers).

I have never written a check to a retail establishment; I always pay cash for small purchases (under ~$200) and use a credit card for greater expenses (e.g. car repairs, etc.) and telephone/mail/online purchases. I reserve checks for mail payments (telephone bill, electric bill, parking tickets, etc.).
 

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Posted by Matt Fields (Member # 3211) on 08-18-2005, 08:59 AM:
 

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

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I think your friend is putting the bank way before the customer... he ought to get his head examined! A buisness thats run properly and built up in a strong fashion doesn't need to borrow money. Borrowing money costs money and your bank will in all likelyhood make more than you on a loan.

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Mark-

Haven't you ever heard of a mortage? Who just has cash lying around for real estate? Take the theatre business, for example. I'm not saying its wise to borrow money to buy popcorn with or to pay your payroll. But it is certainly good business to borrow money to buy the building or update the equipment, especially at todays low rates (even though I realize they are going up). Borrowing money, if done properly, is just another tool for the business owner.

What my friend meant was, once your able to borrow money to buy the theatre, or equipment, or whatever, you're in business. He didn't mean you would stay in business or have good customer service.

And if the rate is low enough, like most of todays mortage rates, it makes perfect sense to borrow (or rent) the money, make your monthly payment, and then invest the money you already have. If you borrow for 6 percent and get 8 or 10 for your investments, your ahead.
 

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Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 08-18-2005, 11:44 AM:
 
Debit cards rock, but I find that I have to be careful about keeping track of expenditures that I use the card for. I also keep more money in my account now than I used to, to cover the increasing number of debit card transactions. And I balance my account to the penny every month.
 

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Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 08-18-2005, 12:45 PM:
 

quote: Scott Norwood

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This makes carrying around a debit card roughly analogous to carrying around a checkbook full of blank, signed checks.

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quote: Scott Norwood

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Debit cards are increasing in popularity in the US, although they do not have the $50 maximum liability for fraudulant use like credit cards do.

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quote: Matt Fields

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Borrowing money, if done properly, is just another tool for the business owner.

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