Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Problems for Theaters & for Home TV Viewers

This is topic Problems for Theaters & for Home TV Viewers in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Wayne Keyser (Member # 2420) on 09-15-2005, 05:29 PM:

I beliueve this topic has been touched on in previous posts, but now it's closer to our doorstep, it seems.

From scriptwriter Mark Evanier's (Garfield, lots of Sat ayem cartoons) excellent NEWS FROM ME weblog:

(Writing about new TIVO restrictions, but that's just a start)

quote:
There are three categories of copy protection involved here. The TiVo website describes them thusly:

Copy Never - This content is not allowed to be recorded by a TiVo DVR.
7 Day Unlimited - These programs can be recorded and viewed as many times as you like within 7 days of their original recording date.
7 Day / 24 Hours - These programs can be stored for up to 7 days but once you begin watching the show, you must complete viewing within 24 hours.
These restrictions obviously suck. The middle one sucks a lot, the last one sucks even more and the first is the suckiest of all. For those of us who have a TiVo with a built-in DVD burner, there seems to be yet another quite-sucky category, which is that the show can be recorded normally on the TiVo and kept there indefinitely but it cannot be copied onto a DVD. TiVo indicates that a show has a specified restriction by putting a little red flag on its listing. We are told that these will appear only on pay-per-view events and video-on-demand material and that it is almost inconceivable that the broadcast networks will stop us from recording their shows or saving them as long as we want. And at the moment, I do think it's premature to be worried that you won't be able to record or archive The Simpsons or CSI: Boise or Conan O'Brien.

Who should be worried? Well, if I operated a movie theater that depended on current releases, I might start wondering how to convert the place into an Olive Garden. The studios are already making noises about getting rid of the exclusive window for theatrical exhibition and when that happens, a lot of theaters will probably suffer. Ten years ago, the average length of time between the release of a new movie and its availability on home video was around 200 days. Two years ago, it was 180 days and recently, it's been around 136 days, though Sony has put out DVDs of theatrical releases that opened in theaters some 95 days earlier. You don't have to be a statistician to see where this one's going. "Day and date" is the wave of the future, and TiVo is obviously gearing up to deal with that kind of marketing.

----------------

Dammit, I WANT TO KEEP MY VCR! I don't want a cable box, I don't want to watch the latest dreck with Jackie Chan on demand anytime of day or night, I don't want to have to ask those idiot's permission to tape a show and keep it on my shelf!

It's enough to make me go back to reading books by the fireside with just quiet music playing.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 09-15-2005, 05:47 PM:

This and things like HDCP is why I root for the hackers. The studios literally want to control the entire world. They are making SHITLOADS of cash now. Shitloads. They are not starving, they are not losing tons of money, they are not having to eliminate lots of jobs due to piracy. They just want every cent they believe they are entitled to AND MORE. If they had their way I'm sure they'd have you murdered.

Go piracy. I fully support (and in many cases encourage) it. Don't let the corporations control us! I am glad this kind of insane control has not yet spread to the videogame industry. I will buy a good game if I like it at retail.

Posted by Joseph L. Kleiman (Member # 3097) on 09-15-2005, 06:01 PM:

The studios aren't losing money? Sure they are, because they invest in stupid nonstudio things like ariplanes that they then rent out to airlines like Delta.

Just yesterday, Tom Staggs, Disney's CFO told an investment conference that they might have to write down their investment in leases to Delta, worth around $101 million. Then a few hours later, Delta filed for bankruptcy. I'm so glad I'm flying a discount airline to Boston next week!

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 09-15-2005, 07:20 PM:

Ha ha ha yeah. Controlling what and how we watch stuff with an iron fist will patch up those wounds.

Posted by Joseph L. Kleiman (Member # 3097) on 09-15-2005, 07:57 PM:

I wonder if people who fly Delta are forced to watch Herbie: Fully Loaded.

By the way Joe, tell all your pals who steal movies and illegally download films that they've been served!

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 09-15-2005, 09:07 PM:

quote:
TiVo indicates that a show has a specified restriction by putting a little red flag on its listing. We are told that these will appear only on pay-per-view events and video-on-demand material and that it is almost inconceivable that the broadcast networks will stop us from recording their shows or saving them as long as we want.

I don't buy that comment from the networks at all. They're commanding a large and growing share of the DVD Video market by selling season box sets of TV shows. At some point you can count on some greedy, short-sighted bean counter to demand the anti-record flag be put in place as a means of getting more improvement out of those DVD box set sales. I would not be surprised if there's already some kind of limitations being put into effect on DVD recorders with built-in hard discs and TiVo functions.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 09-15-2005, 10:13 PM:

Joseph, you cannot illegally or even legally download film. It is impossible. That's like trying to download a new car.

I don't download DVDs mainly because I don't want the quality compromised. DVDs are pretty much cheap enough, though, to the point where I don't complain. So I just buy them. However I still support and encourage the hacking effort just to show that the PEOPLE are in charge, not the CORPORATIONS. I can download TIVO files from the internet and play them on my Xbox if I miss a show or something. Who does this steal money from? Nobody.

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 09-15-2005, 11:20 PM:

What are you talking about, Joe? I just downloaded another 400ft roll of Kodak 5217 camera neg for a project.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 09-15-2005, 11:26 PM:

OK then I guess that you've been served.

That'll teach you!

Posted by Matt Fields (Member # 3211) on 09-16-2005, 08:25 AM:

Joe-

I think you make too much money so I'm going to come over and steal your Doritos.

[ 09-16-2005, 11:23 AM: Message edited by: Matt Fields ]

Posted by Joseph L. Kleiman (Member # 3097) on 09-16-2005, 10:14 AM:

Joe,

I said films (i.e. definition 6), not film (i.e. definition 5) nor film (i.e. definition 1, which is the algae coating my parents' pool).

From Dictionary.com:

quote:
film
n.
1. A thin skin or membrane.
2. A thin, opaque, abnormal coating on the cornea of the eye.
3. A thin covering or coating: a film of dust on the piano.
4. A thin, flexible, transparent sheet, as of plastic, used in wrapping or packaging.
5a. A thin sheet or strip of flexible material, such as a cellulose derivative or a thermoplastic resin, coated with a photosensitive emulsion and used to make photographic negatives or transparencies.
5b. A thin sheet or strip of developed photographic negatives or transparencies.
6a. A movie.
6b. Movies considered as a group.
7. A coating of magnetic alloys on glass used in manufacturing computer storage devices.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 09-16-2005, 04:40 PM:

Film-Tech is the one forum out of several which I visit which has the highest "bug up their ass" per capita amongst the members. Are theater people programmed to be boring and take everything so seriously? Joseph, you really need to get a life, big time.

Matt, your analogy is stupid. I never said I thought the studios make too much money. I just don't like the near-fascist HDCP crap they are pulling. I can only watch my movies on certain displays, even if I have a BD or HD-DVD drive in my computer? I can only keep a program I recorded for a few days? When VCRs were around, people could keep TV shows forever. VCRs are still around. Doesn't seem to be hurting anyone. I think y'all are just frightened because the theater industry will eventually tank or be reduced considerably in time. I'm glad I got out of it and got a real job.

Posted by Joseph L. Kleiman (Member # 3097) on 09-16-2005, 04:45 PM:

Joe, Maybe if I threw away my Tivo I could get a life. I'm sorry you got my good natured sarcasm confused with anal retentiveness. Maybe if I had put a smiley face next to my post there wouldn't have been this confusion. I haven't been in theater management for almost five years now, and I'd like to think the bug crawled out of my ass about three years ago. [Smile]

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 09-16-2005, 05:36 PM:

So how many of you people here on "Film-Tech" haven't got anything to do with film anymore? I think you should all be BANNED, or at least start all your posts with: "I don't work in the industry so I probably don't know what I'm talking about, but...".

(Note to the bug-up-ass types: That was a joke.)

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 09-16-2005, 06:53 PM:

I have a bug up my ass...but I've got the little bastard by three of his legs and trying to pull him out. Damned pinchers hurt!

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 09-16-2005, 07:52 PM:

OK Joseph, no harm done. [Smile]

I agree that everyone who no longer works with film should be BANNED. Of course that would include me, but oh the wonderful BANNING SPREE that would ensue before I got mine would be glorious!

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 09-16-2005, 10:48 PM:

quote: Joe Redifer
...everyone who no longer works with film should be BANNED. Of course that would include me...

Oh NO! That's the stupidest thing you've come up with in a long time, Joey. I would miss your humor and giving you all the crap you deserve for your dumbass posts. [thumbsup]

Next to me, you're the funniest and most down-to-earth, tell-it-like-it-is member on FT. [Razz]

BTW: I agree with Matt, you make waaaaaay too much $$$. I'm gonna write your boss and tell 'em to cut yur pay by 20%.

Posted by Joseph L. Kleiman (Member # 3097) on 09-16-2005, 11:15 PM:

I don't know Joe. Isn't banning all the people who no longer work in film but still know a thing or two what the studios want? Don't they want to ban everyone who knows anything about film? Aren't they eliminating film and going digital on everything? Isn't it part of their all encompassing plan to control all that exists? Won't they soon be implanting movies into our heads (which I won't mind if Lindsey Lohan is involved)? I think the Canadians are behind it all. It's the next step after large format cinema, those robotic space arms, and Clearly Canadian sparkling water. Why, just today, The Hollywood Reporter published an article that Lions Gate Entertainment, a Canadian company, has offered to buy Image Entertainment, the world's largest supplier of laserdiscs and DVD's. We're doomed. [Eek!]

Unfortunately, I never really had the guts to get out like you....I just transitioned. Started up a website that covers large format and digital cinema and we're starting to get into consulting. Why, just next week I'll be in Boston at the Giant Screen Theater Assocation's annual conference and the Thursday after in LA for a 3D digital cinema event at the Pacific on Hollywood Blvd. But, Joe, I'm worried for you. You put in your profile that your interests involve taking over the world. I think the studios know. Be careful. [Wink]

Posted by Bruce Hansen (Member # 281) on 09-17-2005, 11:17 AM:

If the greedy networks start restricting what we can time shift, and you missed a show you wanted to watch because you could not time shift it, you might just relize that there are a lot more interesting things to do than watching TV, and stop watching TV. This, of course, would hurt the greedy networks, but you and I know that they are too stupid, greedy, and short sited to figure this out.

Just think about the untold BILLIONS that would have been lost by the studios in the sales of tapes and DVDs, if they would have been able to stop Betamax. But, again, they are just too stupid, greedy, and short sited to learn from this.

The management-morons are too removed from reality, and are too busy trying to stuff as much money as they can, in their own pockets. Delta Airlines is a good example of this.

Greedy corporations must never be allowed to decide the rights of individuals.