Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: A nice family Christmas...minus one

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 12-25-2005, 04:20 PM:

I have just found out about a friend's Christmas celebration that is so wrong I just have to vent.

A little background is required. We are talking about a guy who is still in college and living at home. He is a good kid. He doesn't do drugs, doesn't steal, he is never in any kind of trouble, all-in-all a son most every family would be proud of.

This last summer his mother received an anonymous letter alerting her to the fact that her son was gay, and included a picture of him kissing his boyfriend to drive the point home. (Turns out the letter was in his ex-boyfriend's handwriting.) The mother freaked out and kicked him out of the house. He had to drop out of school.

Forward in time a little ways and he was amazingly able to work things out with his mother enough so he could go back home. It was apparently a sort of "don't ask, don't tell" and most importantly "don't act on it" situation, but at least he was back with his family, right?

Now forward in time to today, Christmas morning. The entire family, Grandma and all is there exchanging presents. Clothes, gift certificates and other various goods were given. My friend had to sit there with his family and watch as the pile of presents disappeared one by one only to find out that he received nothing.

Yes, I said nothing.

So here you have the entire family exchanging gifts and not a single present was addressed to him. To drive the point home, even the DOGS had presents waiting for them!

What the fuck is wrong with some people? A merry Christmas indeed! [Mad]

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 12-25-2005, 07:03 PM:

Sad story. The family should be ashamed. [Frown]

Posted by Jamie Glossop (Member # 2180) on 12-25-2005, 07:21 PM:

As david said they should be very ashamed,

How could his family do such a mean thing to him [Frown]

Posted by Mathew Molloy (Member # 666) on 12-25-2005, 08:13 PM:

That is so messed up! Did the family members accept his gifts to them? How's he handling this/what's his response to being treated this way? I don't understand how an entire family can be so evil and hateful.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 12-25-2005, 08:19 PM:

Man's inhumanity to man. Your friend is perhaps the most needing of the support of his family, not just at Christmas, but at all times. It has been my experience that lonliness and isolation are the worst part of being gay. (Close gay friends.) Louis

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 12-25-2005, 08:50 PM:

Brad, I sincerely feel bad for your friend.

Without getting too far up on my high horse and/or giving a sermon... this unfortunately happens far too often to many gay kids.

Having worked for many years with 13-23 y/o gay street kids, and financially supported many thru available services, I know that story well. Many are kicked out by their "parents" simply because they announce or, as your friend, are outted. They have NO ONE to turn to and wind up homeless on the street.

Many turn to the street and sell their bodies just to survive only to find themselves exploited, beat-up, or even killed. Many also succumb to drugs and yet others seem to enjoy the street lifestyle no matter how much help is available to them by both public and by sincere, non-exploitive individuals.

It's a well-known fact that many gay kids commit suicide at a higher rate than the average rate or even kill to avoid being "outted".

While your friend was "lucky" to have been taken "back in", his "family" NEEDS to learn how to forgive and about unconditional love...especially for their own flesh and blood.

Even though he was "allowed" to be "re-admitted" to the family, they treat him like crap. Unfortunately, other than becoming a street kid, or some boy-toy to a sugardaddy, he has no other option but to put up with their crap until he has the means to support himself. The family supporting him and paying for his education is many times held over a kid's head for a reason to "be good" and renounce who they are.

As was said before... how sad... how VERY sad.

(OK, I'll get off my horse now!) [Razz]

Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 12-25-2005, 08:57 PM:

His family is [bs]

. He should find the means to leave. He shouldnt tell them anything...when he's leaving, where he's going, nothing. I doubt people like that would worry about him, but he doesn't need that. No one does.

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 12-25-2005, 09:15 PM:

Some "family" huh? Hopefully the kid will find the inner strength it will take to move on without them. And sad as it sounds, he will be better off without them.

I think I have a pretty good idea of what that kid must be going through. My so-called "family" did the same thing to me, though for other reasons. I wrote them out of my life years ago.

Posted by John McConnel (Member # 2000) on 12-25-2005, 09:26 PM:

Brad, perhaps you and your friends could invite him into your circle, and give him friendship and emotional support. And encourage him to stay in school.

Posted by Emma Tomiak (Member # 1862) on 12-25-2005, 11:29 PM:

That's just disgusting. Plain and simple. His family should be ashamed of themselves.

Posted by Richard Greco (Member # 2032) on 12-25-2005, 11:30 PM:

Without brining my political beliefs in this, this is still VERY wrong. Regardless of him being "out", his family should still love him enough to have a nice christmas for him.

That sucks......

Posted by Pravin Ratnam (Member # 1417) on 12-26-2005, 12:08 AM:

Even worse than disowning the kid was the intentional humiliation he had to endure. Something tells me that one of the reasons the mom took his son back in was to give her the opportunity to relieve some of her frustration about her son's gayness by keeping him closer and insulting him at times like this. I hope he didnt have a gift to give to the rest of the family members.

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 12-26-2005, 12:11 AM:

quote: Richard Greco
Without brining my political beliefs in this...

Sorry Richard... but I cannot accept that horseshit! NO ONE cares! Your so called "disclaimer" is just plain stupid and ***offensive*** to many FT members...myself included!!!!

While the rest of your post is "sensible", the 1st part is just plain asine!

It's NOT a fucking political issue but a human rights issue.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 12-26-2005, 12:18 AM:

This is very wrong indeed. It is obvious this family knows little to nothing about unconditional love and instead is more worried about their reputation. Not giving gifts when even the dogs get them is just wrong. Knowing my confrontational nature, I would have been all over each of them asking the reason behind this. I would have demanded they state the reason right out in the open in front of everybody. It wouldn't have really helped the overall situation, but it would have at least made them accountable and I demand that everybody is accountable for their actions.

Also, the guy who sent the picture to his mom also deserves an ass kicking. It is not his business when/if his boyfriend/ex-boyfriend decides to come out.

Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 12-26-2005, 12:45 AM:

I can't believe that somebody's family would do something like that. It's one thing if they don't approve of his lifestyle but to go out of their way to embarrass him and make him feel like an outcast is reprehensible.

Agree with Phil on the political part. We may (and probably do) have very different politics but this is a human issue and I hope I speak for all on my side of the aisle when I say that his family is complete trash and deserves to rot in hell.

Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 12-26-2005, 01:42 AM:

Pravin's got the best handle on it, it's emotional abuse & likely just the tip of the iceberg as to what's going on in his situation. His family is having a good ol' time making him feel miserable.

Aside from taking him out somewhere for a better time, a really good gift for him would be the book The Narcissistic Family by Pressman & Pressman. It's more a clinical case studies book with observations & not a self-help book, but it will likely make him realize those things are done out of selfishness, & may help him get around any certain to disappoint expectations of their ever behaving differently. That, & the regional observation that they're already grown & he can't raise them up again is about the best that can be done, but it's often quite a bit.

I also hope that he'll be able to shake loose of that bunch ASAP, but as Phil has pointed out, it's not easy even from just a financial viewpoint. Not to mention that other problems that may be piled up as a result of growing up in that mess. Folks growing up with little emotional support are a little wobbly on their own, & to say the least how they bestow trust after growing up with a bunch like that is not exactly in the 95th percentile.

Pretty loathsome people, to use a holiday supposedly marking the importance of compassion & good will to set someone up to kick the pins out from under him.

You can tell him something technical no shrink or social worker is allowed to: "Broke, can't be fixed."

Posted by Brian Michael Weidemann (Member # 2243) on 12-26-2005, 03:02 AM:

quote: William Hooper
... likely just the tip of the iceberg as to what's going on in his situation.

I feel very bad, too. And the family, as others have said, should be ashamed of themselves. However, I don't necessarily think it's fair AUTOMATICALLY to group the "family" together, as if it were a conspiracy against the poor guy. I could interpret the situation, though still a shitty thing to do, as a bunch of individuals who, on their own, may feel uncomfortable or insecure or "mad" at him or just plain confused. It could have been a complete surprise to EVERYONE that, by the time all the gifts were gone, he had NONE.

Now, they could have been embarassed and ashamed and decided not to endure having to bring it up, after the fact. Or, indeed, they could have looked at him with a "So there, that's what you get for being gay" look in their eyes. That information wasn't disclosed. Either way, it's no less hard on Brad's friend, and I feel his sadness and isolation.

Posted by Dave Williams (Member # 299) on 12-26-2005, 04:22 AM:

This year I had already purchased a new drum set for a child whose father had just passed away. This is all he wanted and as drummer myself, I just couldn't resist.

Now step things up to just yesterday. I was hard at work and when my wife picked me up at 4:30 pm to go home and relax for christmas eve, she told me of a family whose father lost his job just recently, and the six children had no presents for christmas. I was hesitant at first, but when she told me that NO ONE ANYWHERE had stepped up to help... I mean its friggin christmas right? And throw in a very nasty email to the family suggesting to them that they either sell all their personal belongings before asking for anything, or accept thier junk they were throwing away as gifts for thier children.. I had to step in.

Who the hell gives trash as a gift anyway? My response is this... If you wouldn't put your name on it, then don't give it.. ASS!!! It's merry friggin christmas, not a junkyard. Times are hard, and our family was blessed this year.

With just a short window to shop, just an hour, we headed to the local mall, went on a spree, and made christmas for six kids that otherwise had none. It really was the best christmas I have ever had. Being able to give to people I did not know, and would never know again. Just incredible.

To imagine that family members would do what they did to this poor soul, just dispicable. May they rot in eternal grinchness!

Merry Christmas to all, and whatever good night... and so on..

Ciao, and thank you my film tech family for allowing me all these years to bore you with my tedium. [Razz]

Ciao

Posted by Aaron Mehocic (Member # 15) on 12-26-2005, 08:48 AM:

I worked with a kid who was the biggest homp-phob I think I'll ever meet, even to the point that he claimed he'd beat the shit out of any of his kids who might be gay.

On the other side of the coin he absolutely adored lesbian pornography.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 12-26-2005, 09:26 AM:

Returning gay children meet the dictionary definition of "the Prodigal Son."

Brad: please print out this thread and mail to the offending "Family." Louis

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 12-26-2005, 09:30 AM:

That is seriously sick and vindictive.

In the last two weeks, 'civil partnerships' (nicknamed gay weddings, obviously) became legal in Britain, with a load of high-profile ceremonies. They basically accord same-sex couples the same legal status as marriages (in terms of tax, inheritance, the partner's legal status as next of kin, that sort of thing). I have to confess to very quickly becoming thoroughly bored with the whole story: as I'm not gay and don't have any relatives or close friends who are, it just wasn't an issue that was directly relevant to me, and so my reaction was 'so what?'. But hearing of incidents such as the one Brad describes makes me realise why it was such a big deal for the couples involved.

Homosexuality itself was illegal in the UK until the mid '60s, as was highlighted in the film Victim (BTW, I found the comparision with Le Corbeau in the IMDB review on this page interesting - my DVD of the latter doesn't have subtitles and I struggled a lot with the French when I first watched it, but am going to have another try now), which is credited with having influenced public opinion in favour of changing the law.

Incidentally, religious opponents of civil partnerships in Scotland had the mickey mercilessly taken out of them in this week's Now Show - until this Friday, when it'll be replaced with this week's programme, you can hear it via the link above - the item starts at 08'05".

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 12-26-2005, 01:09 PM:

Aaron, I love hypocrisy like that. I've known a few people (mostly online) who will go up and down about how evil being gay is and how it is such an abonation or whatever. I always try to steer the conversation to porn, and they without a doubt say that they LOVE lesbians. HELLO! When I point that out they don't seem to understand. Like lesbians aren't homosexual or something. I guess some people are so thick-headed that they are completely blind to everything but what they want to see.

Posted by Rick Raskin (Member # 1561) on 12-26-2005, 02:18 PM:

I think people take more crap from family than they ever would from others. You can choose your friends. To bad you can't choose your family.

Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 12-27-2005, 01:40 AM:

"But they're his family!" [Roll Eyes]

The big problem is always that attachment is not via a mechanism that is rational.

All the big work here was done by Harry Harlow's primate experiments . Eye-opening, but the experiments themselves were so cold-blooded & cruel that they were the foundation of rules for ethics of psychological experimentation being inclusive of animals.

Briefly, Harlow found that attachment had more than just a little to do with propinquity alone. He put infant monkeys in a cage with a chicken wire effigy of a monkey mother with a built-in milk bottle, & a soft, stuffed terrycloth monkey mother mannequin. The infant would feed from the bottle-mannequin, but run over & be attached to the otherwise useless terrycloth mannequin.

OK, sez Harlow, what happens if there's no choice? The infant monkeys were put in with just the unresponsive chicken wire mother, & the infant formed an attachment to it. It would exhibit all the usual separation anxiety freakouts if separated from the chicken wire parent. But the monkey wasn't the same reared by a cold, unresponsive parent: it had no social skills, and behaved in a truly psycotic manner when introduced to other monkeys.

The last part of Harlow's experiment, which they usually don't relate in 100 or some 200 level college psych courses, was his construction of what is basically an abusive parent: one that shot out spikes or blew the small monkey with compressed air against the sides of the cage at random times when it clung to it. Guess what? The infant monkey still formed an attachment to the "monster mother" & returned to it, was distressed when separated from it, etc.

The infant monkeys attached to the chicken-wire wire mothers were able to become "rehabilitated" - basically it was via re-socialization, & the work was done basically by the others in the group of monkeys into which it was introduced after the attachment phase. It was sort of a long process fo being actively engaged by them, & usually the heavy lifting was done by younger monkeys (they're more outgoing & make more mistakes in whom to trust, who would be a good playmate, cared less about social rejection, etc., but they also pull in some winners.)

I don't remember reading anywhere about rehabilitation of the infants that formed an attachment to the "monster mothers".

They all exhibited lack of trust or poor judgment in what to trust, etc.

Attachment isn't rational, & some parents really have nothing that "deserves" attachment.

Although anyone can pick a wrong 'un from time to time, it's interesting that your friend picked for a boyfriend a guy who'd out him to his parents (and must have known that they'd go all up over him, otherwise it wouldn't have been worth his time to do the outing). Sure doesn't sound like he's someone worthy of trust.

I always thought that "Honor your father & mother" must have had a translation error. There is nothing particularly "honorable" about just becoming a parent; animals do it in the woods all the time. Honor is earned through wilful acts.

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 12-27-2005, 02:24 AM:

quote: Leo Enticknap
Homosexuality itself was illegal in the UK until the mid '60s, as was highlighted in the film Victim...

"Victim" was indeed one of the 1st films to publicly deal with the plight of homosexuals in a repressive and hostile society. It is one of my favorite films.

I have to give Kudos to Dirk Bogarde for having the balls to play the part of a homosexual in that groundbreaking film especially at a time when it meant suicide for an actor in their film career to do so.

He also played in another of my favorite "questionable" films... "A Death in Venice". One of the most beautifully photographed films I ever have seen. While an extremely slow moving film, the storyline, direction, camera angles, and Technicolor print colors are my idea and ideal of a classic film!

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 12-27-2005, 08:17 AM:

quote: Phil Hill
I have to give Kudos to Dirk Bogarde for having the balls to play the part of a homosexual in that groundbreaking film especially at a time when it meant suicide for an actor in their film career to do so.

..and also to the Rank Organisation for being prepared to risk one of its biggest stars in what was clearly going to be a very controversial film (same with Diana Dors and Yield to the Night, which was shown in Parliament and was said to have swung many MPs in favour of abolishing the death penalty).

Posted by Mike Olpin (Member # 1115) on 12-27-2005, 11:26 AM:

How very sad that this sort of unkindness was practiced durring the celeration of the birth of a guy who promoted inclusion and good will. Clearly, his family missed the point.

Posted by Jim Bedford (Member # 4) on 12-27-2005, 11:28 AM:

Since I saw "Brokeback Mountain" in early September I've been hoping this film might help set the stage for a sea-change in attitude in this country. That's because it's not a "gay" film, but a love story, and love is what relationships are all about. It won't change minds by itself, but it will affect mindsets.

I'm now waiting for the US Supreme Court to address the issue with the same scrutiny as was devoted to racial discrimination in the 60's. It's inevitable in a country of laws based on the proposition that "all men are created equal" that all people must be treated equally. Respect, Mon!

(Sorry if some might think that Civil and Human Rights are "political.")

Posted by Greg Mueller (Member # 17) on 12-27-2005, 12:58 PM:

Could there have been other problems in the family, other than the gay issue?

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-27-2005, 03:12 PM:

I definately agree that this thread should be printed out and sent to the family. Even if there are other "problems" the family seeing this thread may cause an urge to settle differences. There are some good points in this thread to be taken by all!!

Mark

Posted by Rachel Gilardi (Member # 1016) on 12-27-2005, 11:21 PM:

That is just plain outright sick...

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 12-28-2005, 07:32 AM:

quote: Greg Mueller
Could there have been other problems in the family, other than the gay issue?

Christmas is the time of year when family problems tend to bubble to the surface and boil over, in my experience. The catalyst is often extended family members being together in the same room for the one and only occasion during the year... and as a friend pointed out, there's usually a reason why they don't occupy the same room on any other occasion.

That having been said, I can't think of any 'problem' which could excuse that level of vindictiveness.

Posted by Greg Mueller (Member # 17) on 12-28-2005, 09:09 AM:

quote: Leo Enticknap
I can't think of any 'problem'....

Thanks for the effort. I was just wondering if anyone knew/knows anything about the situation.

Posted by William T. Parr (Member # 677) on 12-28-2005, 11:49 AM:

quote: Leo Enticknap
I can't think of any 'problem' which could excuse that level of vindictiveness.

Yep, that is a case of parents that need to slapped into reality. Behavior like this from any grown adult towards thier children regardless of thier sexual orientation is just plain retarded. Heres to you Mom and Dad of this individual [fu]

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 12-28-2005, 04:45 PM:

To answer the specific questions:

quote: Mathew Molloy
Did the family members accept his gifts to them? How's he handling this/what's his response to being treated this way?

I believe so and he has been trying to conceal his feelings. I bought him a pair of Bose headphones for Christmas that he was drooling over and he was quite choked up. He probably thought that *everyone* was abandoning him.

quote: Greg Mueller
Could there have been other problems in the family, other than the gay issue?

None that I'm aware of or can vision, no.

quote:
I definately agree that this thread should be printed out and sent to the family. Even if there are other "problems" the family seeing this thread may cause an urge to settle differences. There are some good points in this thread to be taken by all!!

Good points, yes. Good idea, I honestly don't think so. IMHO all this would do is pour more fuel on the fire and make his situation even worse because the family would probably see this as an outrage due to being public (even though it is anonymous) and treat him even worse. It's also precisely what his ex did in the first place.

quote: Frank Dubrois
He should find the means to leave. He shouldnt tell them anything...when he's leaving, where he's going, nothing.

When he was first outed by the letter he stayed at my place in the guest room for a few weeks. He seemed to have an obligation to return to his family and was able to work things out good enough to go back, but after hearing about this I think he should've just stayed until he got on his feet and cut off ALL communication with them.

quote: Joe Redifer
I've known a few people (mostly online) who will go up and down about how evil being gay is and how it is such an abonation or whatever. I always try to steer the conversation to porn, and they without a doubt say that they LOVE lesbians. HELLO! When I point that out they don't seem to understand. Like lesbians aren't homosexual or something. I guess some people are so thick-headed that they are completely blind to everything but what they want to see.

Indeed!

Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 12-29-2005, 12:39 AM:

quote: Brad Miller
Good idea, I honestly don't think so. IMHO all this would do is pour more fuel on the fire and make his situation even worse because the family would probably see this as an outrage due to being public (even though it is anonymous) and treat him even worse.

You can be sure of that.

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 12-29-2005, 02:41 AM:

I agree William and Brad. I'm soooo holding my tongue on the stupidity of the suggestion of interfering with an already sad/hostile/volatile "family" situation by sending a copy of this thread to them.

While the intention may be good, it would only serve to make that kid's life worse and perhaps even cause him to be expelled from the roof over his head and drive him having to fend for himself perhaps on the street, and maybe even to desperation!

While that "roof" is far from perfect, and as long as he realizes what is going on, it is a place until he is able to support himself without the hazards and dangers of street life or being forced to have a sugardaddy.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-29-2005, 10:59 AM:

quote: Brad Miller
Good points, yes. Good idea, I honestly don't think so. IMHO all this would do is pour more fuel on the fire and make his situation even worse because the family would probably see this as an outrage due to being public (even though it is anonymous) and treat him even worse. It's also precisely what his ex did in the first place.

After reading more posts I agree its a bad idea.... but how does a family with an attitiude like this become educated enough to accept him for what he is?

Mark

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 12-29-2005, 01:03 PM:

Some people are too thickheaded to ever change about this kind of stuff. One of my very best friends (a white girl) married a black man, and her family all but disowned her over it. They've been married now for about 15 years. He is in every respect a fine person, but her family still will have nothing to do with him. You just have to keep in mind, some people are just idiots and nothing can be done about it.

Posted by Wolff King Morrow (Member # 2226) on 12-29-2005, 01:17 PM:

I'm not sure which is worse, his family for they way they reacted, or his ex for the downright evil thing of exposing him like that. It shows how cruel people can be, straight or gay.

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 12-29-2005, 02:36 PM:

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
.... but how does a family with an attitiude like this become educated enough to accept him for what he is?

I don't think one can ever educate those that don't want to be...about anything.

Many times bigotry, hate, intolerance, and the lack of compassion is passed on from generation-to-generation by people that have been "guided" (misguided) by religious or cultural teachings and it is too deeply imbedded in those that blindly follow the rhetoric...even at the expense of their own flesh and blood.

I'd suggest "accidentally" leaving a book laying around such as the one William suggested, but I'm sure that would also fan the flames of that family fire.

A sad situation.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 12-29-2005, 03:29 PM:

Very sad. Prejudice and intolerance still live on, killing the human spirit in ways big and small. [Frown]

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[ 12-29-2005, 10:42 PM: Message edited by: John Pytlak ]

Posted by Mathew Molloy (Member # 666) on 12-29-2005, 03:49 PM:

Hey John, those are coming up as dead links on my computer.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 12-29-2005, 05:15 PM:

Yeah, John.... ALL Kodak links are required to have the word "go" in them. That's why they do not work.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 12-29-2005, 10:44 PM:

Try again.

Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 12-30-2005, 01:57 AM:

quote: Phil Hill
Many times bigotry, hate, intolerance, and the lack of compassion is passed on from generation-to-generation by people that have been "guided" (misguided) by religious or cultural teachings and it is too deeply imbedded in those that blindly follow the rhetoric...even at the expense of their own flesh and blood.

There's such a disparity among the behavior of people even in the same religions or smaller cultures that you'll often have to look at something smaller.

They behave like that because they're getting something out of it, a reward. It's either jollies of asserting control (you'll find that it's a reward for people who were deprived of control themselves), status in a small group that regards doing things like that as bestowing status, etc. Often it's an actual adrenaline rush that comes from making someone else miserable. It is broadly, & accurately, sadistic. It does travel from a path similar to the old saw about "he beats the wife, she beats the kids, the kids beat the dog (& then their kids & spouses).

Its flaw is that if it turns from a reward to a liability like loss of status, or the target fails to respond in the way desired, it falls apart. That's why small acts of cruelty like that are generally confined to small social surroundings like the gatherings of a family or group where the behavior is supported by 'tradition'; if in public they run a risk of being disarmed. The folks who *do* go for bigger stakes in humiliation & cruelty by doing it to their trained targets in public bank on folks nearby not interfering, thus lending to their target the appearance that the behavior is appropriate, supported, deserved, etc.

Next time you see a parent viciously whaling away at some poor kid in public, don't speak to the parent, who has devised a strategem for casting people who publicly disapprove as socially inappropriate 'interferers', speak directly to the kid & say something like "I wish you luck kid, decent people aren't as vicious as your (mother, father)". It will let the kid begin to think in terms of whether the treatment he or she's been getting is normal & socially approved, which is about the best that can be done in that situation (& quite a bit).

Whenever you're considering a behavior that's an additional exertion, you always ask "What're they getting out of it?"

Posted by Robert E. Allen (Member # 1351) on 12-30-2005, 02:27 AM:

Whatever that family was trying to accomplish with your friend they probably only succeeded in hurting him and alienating him which is just the opposite of what we should be celebrating at Christmas. I hope you are in a position to assure him he is of worth.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 12-30-2005, 05:36 AM:

quote: John Pytlak
Most progressive companies today recognize the value of a diverse workforce, and that there is diversity among their loyal customers.

Agreed entirely when 'diversity' means not behaving in any way negatively towards someone on the basis of the ethnicity/sexuality/religion/political views/family situation etc. But I do get sick and tired when people argue that these things entitle them to preferential treatment which is not offered to their colleagues who don't fall into a given category. Example: one of my colleagues is currently on maternity leave. We don't have the money both to cover the costs of that and to employ a replacement; and even if we did, it would probably be impossible to find someone with the skills needed who would be willing to take on the job for such a short period of time. The result? I've been working 60-70 hour weeks since last March, was not able to take my annual leave entitlement last year and almost certainly won't be able to this year. Although no-one's said so out loud, the implicit assumption of my colleagues and bosses is that because I'm male, single and have no dependants, that's fine and I shouldn't mind.

Without straying into the political factors which I believe underlie this situation, what I'm trying to say is that positive discrimination aimed at helping one group of people often has a knock-on effect in the form of negative discrimination against others, and in my experience both are just as destructive. This is especially the case when the desire to construct a 'diverse' workforce results in someone who is best for the job but does not belong to an 'under represented' grouping getting passed over, of which I have noticed increasing instances.

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 12-30-2005, 05:52 AM:

Hmmmm... Leo, if I understand the gist of your post, you're feeling put upon because you're getting fucked and not getting pregnant and not getting the associated benefits of being in that condition cuz you're a guy... [Wink]

I agree, you are! [thumbsdown]

OBTW: There are tons of companies that have the same policies as KODAK regarding gay equality and all diversity. I wont bother to tie-up this thread and post and spout the individual links and selected text as John, but the lists (PDF format) can be found at the HRC Corporate Equality Index.

While the reports are long (and boring), the lists are in the appendices.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 12-30-2005, 10:43 AM:

Phil: You might recognize an old friend in the lower right hand corner of the photo on this link:

Kodak Lambda Group Award

Eric Rodli, the President of Kodak Entertainment Imaging, was the corporate management sponsor of the Kodak Lambda Group when they received the national Employee Resource Group Of The Year Award from Out&Equal.

[ 12-30-2005, 05:09 PM: Message edited by: John Pytlak ]

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 12-30-2005, 11:26 AM:

<sarcasm>

But everybody "knows" that it was his mother who coddled him too much when he was a young child and his father who browbeat him as an adolescent who "made" him gay!

It's all THEIR FAULT!

</sarcasm>

<hides under table>

[evil]