Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Video gamers: Are you out there?

This is topic Video gamers: Are you out there? in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Andrew McCrea (Member # 674) on 01-09-2006, 02:13 AM:

Well, there must be a bunch of video gamers on the FT Forums.

I have only ever owned the original Nintendo with Duck Hunt, Super Mario Brothers, etc. For Christmas, out of the blue, I got a Nintendo GameCube. I've always been a big fan of the Mario bros. and gang. (Like when you can play the original Super Mario Brothers when you stay in a hotel).

Anyways, I've been searching around for the original Super Mario Brothers games that have been upgraded onto GameCube. Do they actually do this? Wouldn't it be a big seller? Is there any way to actually burn the older games off the internet ontyo one of those tiny 8cm disks (I have a DVD burner)?

And, if none of that is possible, then what games are made for GameCube that would satisfy all my cravings for the original Super Mario Brother games?

Thanks!

Posted by Wolff King Morrow (Member # 2226) on 01-09-2006, 02:26 AM:

Even if you could burn those games off onto the mini-dvds, there'd be no way for the gamecube to recognize or play them. You have to use an emulator to play older games on newer systems like PCs or X-boxs, but most companies have intense protection against hacking into their console systems to install your own bios. In short, you're out of luck there.

Best you can do for your gamecube is get "Animal Crossing". I remember that game had a feature where you could unlock many of the old classic Nintendo games and play them as a bonus from within that game. Beyond that, you'd need to get used to playing the newer games made for the gamecube like Metroid Prime and any number of various Mario spin-off games.

Also of note is the new Nintendo console coming out that is said to be able to play all previous Nintendo console formatted games. We'll se how that turns out when its released. I would imagine they will use emulation programs to pull that off.

Posted by Allison Parsons (Member # 2728) on 01-09-2006, 02:37 AM:

quote: Wolff King Morrow
Best you can do for your gamecube is get "Animal Crossing".

Careful with this one! I owned it for two months. The game took over my life! I would be at work and would think "I wonder if I got any mail today" or "I wonder what I could sell to get the china hutch." Seriously, it sucked the soul out of me so I had to trade it in. I never got to unlock the old games because I was too obsessed with playing Animal Crossing!!

I do recommend getting both of the Metroid's for Game Cube. It was the only reason I bought a GC. I do have the original NES and would LOVE to play Goonies again if they ever are able to convert all the old games over.

Posted by Wolff King Morrow (Member # 2226) on 01-09-2006, 02:45 AM:

Metroid games on the GC were simply outstanding AND made right here in the Dallas area!

Anyway, I'm an emulation nut, so I can freely play anything like Goonies II on my computer using my rom collection and a choice emulation program. My favorites for each system:

Nes: Nestopia (hands down the king of NES emulation)
Genesis and Master System: Kega Fusion (Gens was good but this one is even better now)
Turbografix: Magic Engine (have to pay for it, but it was worth the few bucks)
Neo Geo: Final Burn Alpha (I compiled my own version with drivers to play newer games)
SNES: ZSNES (not exactly the most accurate, but it is the current best available all around SNES emulator)

Posted by Allison Parsons (Member # 2728) on 01-09-2006, 02:51 AM:

quote: Wolff King Morrow
Metroid games on the GC were simply outstanding

So outstanding that for a couple of nights, I would play them for so long in one sitting that I made myself get motion sickness and almost puked. Now THATS a good game [Wink]

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-09-2006, 03:13 AM:

MAME32 emulator is the kick since this EM will let us play those grand ol' coin-op games of the 80's that a bunch of us loved to play.

Used to go buy a roll of quarters and "destroy" myself playing the Williams classics (that is now out on PSX and PC-CD), NAMCO, DataEast, Midway, Bally, ..and all of the neat pinball games as well..(I'm pretty good with Tony Hawk IV... LOL)

-Monte

Posted by Dominic Espinosa (Member # 2122) on 01-09-2006, 03:46 AM:

I use ZSNES to get my Super Mario fix [Wink]

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-09-2006, 12:17 PM:

I haven't had a video game since the Atari 5200. I've watched my younger brother play his Xbox and it seems pretty involving for him, but I was bored with most everything he was playing. I guess I just don't "get it."

I'm still waiting for a decent version of my all time classic game, "Defender." There's an online version which looks and sounds perfect, but the controls are lacking. (No thrust or reverse buttons).

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 01-09-2006, 01:16 PM:

Here's what I recommend to play classic games:

Nintendo Entertainment System (NES): The real thing. Get the model 1 since it has A/V outs or get the model 2 and mod it for composite output. If you get a model 1 disassemble it and adjust the cartridge connector pins outward so that they make good connection with the actual cart. You won't even have to press the cart down once inserted for it to work. It would also be a good idea to clean the carts with a Q-tip and rubbing alcohol since most people in the U.S. do not know how to take care of their personal possesions. Get a Super Mario Bros. cartridge for $5 or less at your local used game store or even thrift store. The NES itself should be cheap as well.

Sega Genesis: Real thing. No emulator gets this thing perfect, especially the sound. Get the model 1 revision 1. This unit is compatible with ALL Genesis games unlike the later models and doesn't have the lame "licensed by Sega" screen you must endure every time you turn on the unit. I found a model 1 Genesis attached to a model 1 Sega CD for $6.50 in a thrift tore yesterday, both in perfect working condition. A little dirty, but both cleaned up nicely. I could sell them on eBay for quite a hefty sum, but I'm going to keep 'em for spare parts. There is no need to mess with the cartridge connector pins on a Sega system since Sega knows how to build systems. You can mod this system internally for S-video or get an external chip that will allow you to connect it to S-video or even component.

Ooops... power to the entire house just went out. I also recommend you get a good UPS. They kick so much ass it is insane. Anyway back on topic:

TurboGrafx-16 (proper spelling): Real thing. Emulation for this thing is OK but the real machine is 10x better. Be sure to get the System 3.0 card for the CD-ROM and the Arcade Card as well. You can mod the TurboGrafx-16 for RGB and then use an external chip to convert to S-video or component.

Sega Saturn: Real thing. This system can not be properly emulated and it is an essential console if you fix it up to play Japanese imports (installation of a 4 pull double throw switch is the best way).

Playstation: Who cares?

Neo Geo: I'm not too sure about this 16-bit system. Usually I like the real machines, but the Neo Geo has a poorly designed and even worse built joystick as it's only method of control. It feels incredibly cheap. The CD system has a ridiculous control pad. If there were an adaptor to let you use a Sega Saturn Japanese 6-button pad (the best controller in the world), then that'd be the best way to go. You might as well emulate the Neo Geo. The Neo Geo is basically a Genesis on steroids, same internal architecture.

Super Nintendo (SNES): Real thing. Which model? Well the model 1 revision 1 likes to turn nicotine yellow for no reason. Try to get one that's still grey in all spots.

This guide will help you Andrew. And stay away from the god awful Super Mario Sunshine. It is a horrible game.

Posted by Wolff King Morrow (Member # 2226) on 01-09-2006, 02:56 PM:

Agreed about the Neo Geo. I was quite frustrated with the home version. Absolutely piss-poor video signal feed with all sorts of feedback distortion. For a while I had an actual 4-slot arcade Neo Geo that I cherried out with beefy speakers and a gold-plated large headphone jack. It wasn't condusive to lugging around a lot, so I sold it when I moved to Seattle.

BTW I have the first version models of the NES, SNES, Genesis, and N64. The Model 1 Genesis is far better than the later ones that came out.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 01-09-2006, 07:27 PM:

I keep telling myself I'll get a new game console, but never do. The only console I've ever owned was the Atari 5200 "super system." It may still be up in my attic, along with a bunch of games.

I had every intention of buying an X-Box, but never got around to it. Even the release of Doom III couldn't get me to bite. Now I'm pondering X-Box360 or Playstation3. Awesome hardware. Cool looking games. But I'll probably waste a shit load of time playing them. And besides, there's always some new computing upgrade or new graphics software release I'm more inclined to buy. I guess Adobe After Effects 7 or Lightwave3D 9 mean more to me since I can make money using those tools.

quote: Mike Blakesley
I'm still waiting for a decent version of my all time classic game, "Defender." There's an online version which looks and sounds perfect, but the controls are lacking. (No thrust or reverse buttons).

You're talking about the Shockwave Flash versions at the Midway and Shockwave.com websites, right? It's been awhile since I tried it, but I could have sworn you could customize key bindings for controls like thrust. The games also work with a joystick. I really liked the highly faithful reproduction of Robotron:2084.

FWIW, Midway also has ports of those same games for X-Box, PS2 and Gamecube:
classic games linky

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 01-09-2006, 07:37 PM:

What would YOU use After Effects for? Hell I barely notice a difference between version 5 and version 6. No, wait. I don't notice a difference at all beyond the splash screen (I have 5.5 or whatever at home and 6.5 or whatever at work).

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-09-2006, 08:36 PM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
You're talking about the Shockwave Flash versions at the Midway and Shockwave.com websites, right?

Yeah. As for the keys -- no, the only way you can navigate is by the arrow buttons -- up down forward back. So you can't aim precisely because you can't move forward while moving upward, for example. Joystick might be better but you really need the up/down lever and the thrust button. Maybe somebody'll come out with Defender in a console someday. I would definitely buy it.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 01-09-2006, 10:18 PM:

quote: Joe Redifer
What would YOU use After Effects for?

Mainly for motion graphics work on large outdoor LED video message center signs. Probably some regular video stuff as well. After Effects 7 is a pretty significant upgrade. The interface has been changed -to where it looks more like a Macromedia StudioMX application actually. And it has a lot of integration with Flash 8 Professional, as well as its usual hooks into Illustrator and Photoshop.

If I just had $4495 laying around, I'd definitely choose eyeon Software Fusion 5 over After Effects. Apple Shake is the only other node-based compositing tool that can hold a candle to Fusion. But I don't have a ton of money laying around and that kind of purchase would likely be overkill...for now.

After Effects is the only application that has me considering the purchase of the next Adobe Video Collection suite. Without AE, I'd probably get one of Avid's packages instead.

quote: Mike Blakesley
Maybe somebody'll come out with Defender in a console someday. I would definitely buy it.

Midway Arcade Treasures volume 1 has Defender, Defender II (we knew it as "Stargate" in the 1980s), Joust, Robotron:2084, Sinistar and even Smash TV. Pretty much covers the best of Williams Electronics coin-op games of the 1980s. The reviews I've read suggest the X-Box version plays the best. YMMV.

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 01-09-2006, 10:28 PM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
Defender, Defender II (we knew it as "Stargate" in the 1980s), Joust, Robotron:2084, Sinistar and even Smash TV

Some of the best classic videogames of all time. [beer]

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 01-10-2006, 01:19 AM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
After Effects 7 is a pretty significant upgrade. The interface has been changed -to where it looks more like a Macromedia StudioMX application actually. And it has a lot of integration with Flash 8 Professional

Wow! Sounds like After Effects 7 sucks a lot of ass!

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-10-2006, 01:33 AM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
Midway Arcade Treasures volume 1 has Defender, Defender II (we knew it as "Stargate" in the 1980s), Joust, Robotron:2084, Sinistar and even Smash TV. Pretty much covers the best of Williams Electronics coin-op games of the 1980s.

MAME32 has all of these old coin-op classics covered. -Monte

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 01-10-2006, 03:03 PM:

Yes, MAME has been able to emulate a lot of those classic coin-ops for quite some time and it is easy to get hold of the emulator software itself.

However, it can be a PITA to find the actual coin-op video game ROMs. You don't find very many of those posted on any websites.

In the end, with all the time you spend finding ROMs, then dealing with incompatibilties with a given computer setup, its quite a bit more easy to just buy a console port that will at least work right out of the box.

quote:
Wow! Sounds like After Effects 7 sucks a lot of ass!

I suppose it might -if you're already using something a lot more expensive, such as Fusion. Even Apple Shake costs quite a bit ($3000 for the Mac version and $5000 for the Linux version). Autodesk is growing a larger fan base for Combustion.

However, the demo of AE7 at the last Macromedia convention looked pretty impressive. I should say my possible purchase will be a full, not upgrade purchase. If the older versions of AE work great, then don't upgrade. I've skipped numerous Illustrator upgrades and even a Photoshop upgrade or two for various reasons.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 01-10-2006, 04:37 PM:

Apple Shake sucks ass. It is completely unmanagable. There is no reason for After Effects to work more like Flash or a Macromedia product. I have always hated Macromedia UI's. Speaking of which I just sold 2 old Macromedia programs, an old Adobe InDesign and and old Toast for Mac (we're talking OS 9 stuff here) on eBay for about $200.

quote: Bobby Henderson
MAME has been able to emulate a lot of those classic coin-ops for quite some time

With every new release of MAME, a new set of games becomes broken and no longer run. Yep, each new MAME breaks more games then it enables. You have to keep 40 or 50 different versions of MAME just to run all of the games!

quote: Bobby Henderson
However, it can be a PITA to find the actual coin-op video game ROMs.

Oh no. It is quite easy to find all of them. I don't think I'll be posting the URL here, though.

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 01-10-2006, 05:35 PM:

quote: Bobby
However, it can be a PITA to find the actual coin-op video game ROMs. You don't find very many of those posted on any websites.

quote: Joe
Oh no. It is quite easy to find all of them.

I agree with Joe and with Bobby to a certain extent. I got the MAME prg about 2 years ago and the ROMS (which were readily availble at that time) and have had NO problem playing the older coin-op arcade games on my PC.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-11-2006, 01:51 AM:

True, when I got my MAME, is was about 4 yrs ago with the older version of MAME32 when I was introduced to this EM. Luckilly, I downloaded almost all of the ROMS at that time.

Got this one verions of MAME on my laptop and still having the great fun that I had back in the early 80's.

..just saving my quarters now....

-Monte

Posted by Brad Bridges (Member # 3484) on 01-17-2006, 10:48 PM:

If you ever do find yourself using a computer to play older games try getting a controller or two for your computer.

http://www.retrousb.com/

I have only got the NES controllers, but they work very well.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 01-17-2006, 11:26 PM:

That's pretty cool. Looks like you can permanently mod your controllers if you wanted to as well. That's NOT cool! I'll stick with the adaptor dongles.

Posted by Wolff King Morrow (Member # 2226) on 01-18-2006, 06:19 AM:

Same. I use a PS2 controller on my dongle. I know you hate Sony, but their PS2 controllers are some of the best designed controllers I've ever used. The only other controller I really liked was the the SNES asciipad.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 01-18-2006, 01:04 PM:

Here are the controllers ranked from GODLY to TURD-SUCKING:

-Sega Saturn (Japanese pad - later became the standard US pad)
-Sega Genesis 6-button (official version, not Majesco)
-Super Nintendo (US version with concave buttons) (prefer two rows of 3 buttons over the diamond configuration, though. Not sure why the diamond configuration is so popular)
-Xbox360
-Nintendo Gamecube (Wavebird included)
-Sega Saturn Nights Analog pad
-Xbox Controller S
-TurboGrafx-16 (includes PC Engine 3 and 6 button controllers)
-Nintendo Entertainment System
-Nintendo 64 pad
-Sega Master System
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-Sega Dreamcast controller
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-Neo Geo CD control pad
-Sony Playstation 1/2 Dual Shock Controller (worst d-pad in the world, oversensitive analog sticks, 4 shoulder buttons (why?), shapes as button names)
-Neo Geo joystick (built by Fisher Price)
-Atari 2600 joystick

Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 01-18-2006, 05:27 PM:

I'd go for a standard x-box. I had one and modded it. All you need is a good mod chip, I used the xecuter3, then pop in a large hard drive, and presto, you can do just about anything. I found software that upconverted DVDs (not a true upconversion, but they did look better), i found emulators for NES, SNES, SEGA, Commodore 64, Amiga, Nintendo 64, MAME arcade emulator and even a file manager and menu system. You were also able to rip you xbox games to your hard drive in order to save wear on the disc and keep them shiney and new. With the price of a standard xbox and a $50 mod chip and possibly $40-$50 for a hard drive, you have a solid gaming station that plays a huge variey of games, DVD's and music. If you have a HDTV, it also will make some of those old NES and SNES games look much sharper and cleaner then they ever used to look with the right emulator. [thumbsup]

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 01-18-2006, 05:44 PM:

The emulators for the Xbox suck ass. The games don't even run in 240p, instead they are all upscaled to either 480i, 480p, 720p, or 1080i. They look like ass. And don't get me started on the awful GUI of those emulators.

I modded my Xbox and I never installed a chip or anything like it. I didn't even open it up.

Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 01-18-2006, 07:24 PM:

All of the emulators work VERY well for the xbox. Some can have menu issues, not the easiest to navigate, but come on, what do you want for a free emulator letting you play thousands of games? If your able to improve on it, I'm sure the community would be most appreciative of that.

As for modding your xbox without even taking it apart, well, what did you do exactly? Spray painting it a different color isnt modding..

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 01-18-2006, 07:37 PM:

It's called a soft-mod. It's a memory card/game save exploit. It can be done to any Xbox.

The emulators are far from perfect. The sound is often messed up, or the graphics are messed up. If I want to play an older game, chances are that I own it or will own it soon. No need to fake it. The only emulator that I approve of is MAME.

Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 01-18-2006, 11:36 PM:

The emulators with issues were the Amiga and N64 emulator (for control issues).

Perhaps you were having problems with your emulators because of your "soft mod". I never had a problem with sount, graphics or control.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 01-19-2006, 01:12 AM:

Ah yes but remember I am a perfectionist. If it isn't EXACTLY like the original system or better, it's no good. I do not settle for "good enough". Way too many people settle for "good enough".

People love mediocrity.

There is nothing wrong with my soft-mod. I do like that it was 100% free, though.

Posted by Anslem Rayburn (Member # 1267) on 01-19-2006, 05:43 AM:

Besides, it's far easier to hook up my NES, Sega MS, Sega Genesis, Atari 2600, et al. than it is to mod another unit to play those games. Plus, I didn't buy a new unit to play decades old games. I kept my decades old console to do that...

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 01-19-2006, 12:54 PM:

Anyone who owns a Sega Master System has my approval.