This is topic Need a new router - suggestions? in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Mike Heenan (Member # 392) on 01-14-2006, 12:38 PM:
 
Our router here at home crapped out, and we need a new one. It was a Linksys 10/100mbps, model #befsr41, and I was searching on new egg and came up with various other brands. Reading the reviews of this Linksys, it seems to have mixed opinions on it's reliability with connectivity issues. Our own experience with it the past few years has been rather poor... usually a good connection for a while... then it craps out, then it's ok... etc. Anyways, should I just replace it, or get a different brand? For our cable modem we have a Linksys model as well (not sure if that matters or not).
 

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Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 01-14-2006, 02:27 PM:
 
About a year ago, I had it with Linksys. There always seem to be some minor problem with anything they make, and it's the minor problems the drive you crazy. If it just didn't work I would have returned it. Anyway, I suggest Netgear.
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 01-14-2006, 03:09 PM:
 
I agree with John. I got soooo sick and tired of dealing with all the problems and PITA setup of Link Systems' crap that I switched to Netgear years ago too.

Even though I still try Linksys stuff now and again when stuck cuz of lack or Netgear stock, and hoping they have improved...they haven't! So I still go back to Netgear.

In both of my CA (1.5 DSL) and TX (1.2 Cable) abodes I have Netgear WGT624 wireless routers and have never had ANY problem with them ...even with the early rev versions.

Reliable and they virtually set themselves up. They work great for the 3 wired network printers and Desktop computer, and the wireless laptop and 4 wireless security TV cameras which I use for monitoring my house when traveling.
 

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Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 01-14-2006, 03:23 PM:
 
Add another vote for NetGear.

Stay away from D-Link. Their customer support is the absolute worst. If you ever need a warranty replacement, be prepared to make several phone calls, costing you lots of your time, and then you have to return EVERY SINGLE PIECE that came with the original retail boxed item, including things like user manuals, mounting kits, and rubber feet. I returned a gig switch for replacement, got charged like $40 for the user manual, 4 rubber feet, and a wall-mount kit consisting of 2 light-duty plastic drywall anchors and 2 screws. We eventually "settled" that issue but I resolved NEVER to buy any other D-Link product as long as I live. I actually need to buy a wireless router soon, and the best price at Circuit City right now is a D-Link for like $30 after rebate. I will not buy it.
 

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Posted by Jeffry L. Johnson (Member # 453) on 01-14-2006, 03:36 PM:
 
ZyXEL Prestige 643

I've had no problems with my Zyxel. I even have an Apple AirPort Extreme Base Station connected to one of its ethernet ports for wireless. Works great.

AirPort Extreme
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 01-14-2006, 03:44 PM:
 
I also totally agree with David about the D-Link crap! My wireless cameras are D-Link and they were a ROYAL PITA to setup... too GD confusing!

Also, I have a D-Link DP-301P+ Enet Print Server for my LaserJet 5 Printer that has YET to work properly without crashing the laptop.
 

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Posted by Anslem Rayburn (Member # 1267) on 01-14-2006, 04:14 PM:
 
Also avoid Belkin. I bought one and subsequently watched my DSL speed decrease by 75%. Tech support is non-existent, as I e-mailed them 2 days ago and have not heard back yet. Then I found on their site that they are having unsolvable problems with 10 different models. Their website has a link on the support page titled "EXPANDED NETWORKING REFUND AND OFFER" that states :

If you purchased, in the United States, a Belkin wireless networking product having any of the following product numbers F5D7000, F5D7010, F5D7050, F5D7230-4, F5D7001, F5D7011, F5D7231-4, F6D3230-4, F6D3010, and F6D3000 (“the Eligible Products”) and you believe that the data throughput rate you are obtaining is not what you expected, you may return your wireless router to Belkin for a refund of your purchase price. Here is how the offer works:

1. Return your Eligible Product or Eligible Products in working condition by uninsured first class U.S. Mail to Belkin at the following address: Belkin Corporation, 501 West Walnut Street, Compton, California 90220, Attn: Networking Offer.

2. Please include your receipt or other proof of purchase showing the price paid for each Eligible Product and your address where you want your refund sent.

3. Within six weeks of its receipt of the Eligible Product, Belkin will send you a refund of your actual purchase price plus your actual cost of uninsured first class U.S. Mail for shipping the Eligible Product to Belkin.

4. If you do not have your receipt or other reliable proof of purchase for the returned Eligible Product, Belkin will refund to you an amount equal to the average sale price of the particular Eligible Product along with your actual cost of uninsured first class U.S. Mail shipping.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 01-14-2006, 07:20 PM:
 
I've never had any problems with Linksys routers. I first bought a BEFSR41 model and used that one for a few years, but then I switched to a WRT54GS for wireless G-type access for my notebook. No problems at all.

However...

All of that depends on your ISP setup. I'm using an older SpeedStream DSL modem that is a very straight-forward model without a lot of needlessly redundant bullshit (like built-in router functions).

Other friends of mine have had hell trying to get the same router model working on newer Speedstream modems that do have built in routing. Basically I believe that's just a scam by the ISP to force users to get their overpriced yet shitty proprietary wireless routers. SBC/Yahoo (or rather AT&T now) tries to force that awful 2-Wire shit on everyone. I've never seen great reviews on any of those routers. But the one I use has earned plenty of awards (PC Magazine Editor's Choice, etc.).

In the end you have to buy what's going to work best with your Internet connection.
 

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Posted by Mark Lensenmayer (Member # 134) on 01-14-2006, 08:02 PM:
 
I just dealt with this problem this week. I pulled out an older Linksys router because it wouldn't perform DHCP properly and it kept losing my print server. I bought a Netgear and it was a joy to setup and it has a much better management tool. I am very satisfied, so far.
 

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Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 01-14-2006, 09:19 PM:
 
Ok Mike...

I thought you were discussing WOODWORKING!
 

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Posted by Mike Heenan (Member # 392) on 01-14-2006, 09:24 PM:
 
I went ahead and bought a Netgear router WGT624 108 mbps Wireless at best buy, with the rebates it came to what it would be on newegg. I read the reviews on newegg, and it seems to have about the same success as Linksys' stuff, but we'll see. What are the differences between the $50 models and the $80+ models?
 

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Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 01-14-2006, 09:45 PM:
 
In reality, they're all crap out of the box. Just about everything uses Broadcom processors and switches. A large majority use the same model Broadcom processors and switches.

The reliability of the device, like most any embedded OS device today, depends almost entirely on whose software people are less stupid. Unsurprisingly, I'm seeing major improvements in Linksys gear post Cisco takeover.

For this reason I have no faith in NetGear's software people. I've also yet to see a NetGear network card stand up to any serious load (two of the one's in the old film-tech.com servers used to crap out hourly). For a low cost network card the D-Link 538-TX is the best available. At about $5 I couldn't care less about a warranty, especially given that in over the 500+ I've used, not one has died. It's only aviablable in Canada though. In the US you have to settle for the almost as good 530-TX.

For reliability over cost applications, Intel or 3Com is the only option.

Anyway, bottom line is, buy one of routers listed on this page and install OpenWRT on it instead of putty up with the all-around crappy software that all of the vendors provide. If you don't want to go the OpenWRT route, find the (usually one) good firmware version the vendor provides. There's almost always one, and always lots of bad ones.
 

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Posted by Chris Boland (Member # 3549) on 01-14-2006, 10:51 PM:
 
Depending on when you guys dealt with Linksys things may have changed quite a bit.

They've since been bought out by Cisco Systems which is the world's largest maker of routing/networking equipment (I can almost guarantee you that when you visit this site your request goes thru their equipment). Again from my 'computer nerd' point of view things don't get much better then Linksys when it comes to the quality of the components and firmware on the device.

I agree some of the setup for their gear can be a little frustrating but in the end their routers will outperform almost anything on the market right now. If you're looking for a wired solution This is my suggestion. If you're looking for something wireless this wireless router will do everything you need. If you do chose to go the wireless route ensure you take the time to properly secure your connection, or disable it completely if you don't intend to use wireless.

Good luck!

edit: Sorry, didn't completely read Daryl's post, I kinda echoed his thoughts.
 

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Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 01-15-2006, 10:25 AM:
 
Well, we were talking about routers. I've set up several NetGear wireless routers and had no problems with any of them. The NetGear GA302T gig ethernet card is indeed crap though.

In fairness, I should point out that I set up a Linksys wireless router for someone about 6 months ago, and had no problems with it either.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-15-2006, 10:33 AM:
 

quote: John Walsh

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About a year ago, I had it with Linksys. There always seem to be some minor problem with anything they make, and it's the minor problems the drive you crazy. If it just didn't work I would have returned it. Anyway, I suggest Netgear.

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quote: Will Kutler

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I thought you were discussing WOODWORKING!

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Ya know Will, I thought the same thing when I 1st saw this thread.

I was going to say how much I liked my Craftsman 2 HP router and how it helps in my woodworking hobby.

But then I got enlightened and posted accordingly.
 

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Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 01-15-2006, 09:35 PM:
 

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

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Once a Linksys router caused nightmarish problems with a ticketing system install... stations randomly dropping off line, putting in a new netgear router solved the problem.

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People are actually relying on xDSL and consumer crap hardware for their ticketing systems? That's insane. For any commercial setting I wouldn't use anything less than a 3Com, Cisco, HP, Bay Networks, or highend Dell or Linksys (24+ port models) switch. If they need WAN connectivity, add an ISDN line and a Cisco 801 (or 802) ISDN router.

I don't know how far along the US is in abandoning cash (I know Canada, unfortunately, is the "leader" in this area), but losing debit card processing equates to closing your doors here. Relying on xDSL and cheap hardware isn't worth it, even short term.
 

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Posted by Richard Hamilton (Member # 321) on 01-15-2006, 10:31 PM:
 
Daryl,
Most theaters in the States use Automaticket machines. It is a very reliable and proven piece of hardware!
 

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Posted by David Buckley (Member # 2600) on 01-15-2006, 10:35 PM:
 
Echo Daryl - on the money and beat me to it.

Although I've had some bad luck with LinkSys wireless, their crap isn't generally worse than anyone else's consumer grade crap, everyone has had the bottom of the pile label from time to time. I've got a soft spot for NetGear, based on the fact I used to earn my money being a SynOptics / Wellfleet expert, and this collection of bedfellows became Bay Networks, which then addded NetGear as their el-cheapo line stuff, and then Bay got bought by Nortel. I've had good and bad results with NetGear.

My current home ADSL router is a Draytek Vigor ADSL gateway, followed by a Zyxel Zywall, neither of which have let me down in any way, and are well regarded as cheap stuff goes. This has been working solidly for a few years now.
 

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Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 01-15-2006, 10:46 PM:
 

quote:

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Most theaters in the States use Automaticket machines. It is a very reliable and proven piece of hardware!

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quote:

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Most theaters in the States use Automaticket machines. It is a very reliable and proven piece of hardware!

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I have perhaps three customers that use Automatickets.... those that are not on puters tear them manually.... there is about four or five customers out there that tear them manually so about 8 out of about 700 don't use computers. oops there are a few cash regester people out there.... so lets add 3 more in to the 8 for 11 out of 700.

I am not sure if Automaticket is even in buisness any more......a google didn't turn up anything but used ones. Its got to the point about 6 or 7 years ago that computer ticketing became less expensive than a new Automaticket 3 bay. Automatickets are a pain in the ass to repair. The big thing about puters that cutomres like is that they can do all your B.O. reports for you.

Mark
 

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Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 01-16-2006, 12:45 PM:
 
Hi Phil

What kind of woodworking do you enjoy?

Cheers

K
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 01-16-2006, 02:33 PM:
 
Will, I've done and enjoy everything from house framing to precision work such as cabinet making. I love woodworking...it's a great stress reliever.

While I'm fascinated with metal work, I just can't get a handle on operating those darn vertical mills like a Bridgeport. So I leave that art to those that know how to do it. Even though I have no problem with a Worrell-type gear head, those mill tables drive me to try that I-30 stuff!

I guess I just enjoy working with "wood"... Ummm "both" types.
 

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Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 01-17-2006, 09:28 PM:
 
Hi Phil

I love woodworking also.
http://www.woodworkerssource.net/
Take a look at They're located out of Phoenix and Tucson. Supply lots of books, tools, exotic hardwoods and veneers and finishes.

One can really gain an appreciation for craftsmanship after having lived in or visited England or mainland Europe.

The castles in England have furnishings that would make your jaw drop, and the antique furniture and silver shops in Oxford are awesome.

I guess I'm a sucker for exotic hardwoods, veneers and finishes that are beyond expensive. Not to mention details like hand cut dovetails, inlaying, marquetry, leafing, finishing, et al.

There was a show on PBS (forgot the name) but this guy was doing all kinds of precision craftsmanship using nothing but basic antique handtools and a basic workbench and vice. The work he does is amazing.

You might also enjoy what goes into the making of custom pool cues. Look up Ron Kilby on the net.

Cheers

K
 

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Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 12-24-2006, 11:21 AM:
 
Okay, so is the concensus of opinion still favoring Netgear routers at this late date? We had a D-Link, and it just completely stopped working with the cable modem.

I've also got the problem that our cable provider (RCN) absolutely will not do anything to help you get a router working on their line, so I need something that's going to involve the least amount of hassle to setup. The D-Link took forever to get going, and I'm not even sure what we finally did to make it work in the first place.

RCN wants to put their own router on, so they can charge an extra $49 a month, or whatever it is, for every additional computer we connect!
 

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Posted by Mike Heenan (Member # 392) on 12-24-2006, 01:15 PM:
 
Our netgear router that I ended up buying is still running great after all this time.
 

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Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 12-24-2006, 01:53 PM:
 
Thanks, Mike. What model do you have? Is it connected to a cable modem? How's the speed as compared to a direct connection?

After doing some quick research, I've noticed equipment with this 802.11n standard. Is that superceding 802.11g? Anyone know about this?
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 12-24-2006, 06:57 PM:
 
I've had Linksys routers fail on me twice, so I tried a D-Link as that was all Circuit City or Best Buy had besides Linksys. Big mistake. D-Link sucks. Not only that, but all of the ethernet connections were on the FRONT of the router. For a home router that is extremely annoying and quite useless. I hope D-Link goes out of business and all of their employees catch on fire. So I took it back and got the Linksys BFRFRES41 or whatever it is... it's the one that just failed for the OP. Anyway it's been working fine for me for years. I also have a Linksys switch that has worked perfectly. I used to have a D-Link (I think) hub long, long ago and that was retarded.
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 12-24-2006, 07:06 PM:
 
I have Netgear WGT-624 wireless routers on a DSL modem at home and on a cable modem at my parents for a few years. Have had NO problem with either installation. Easy to set up and they just keep working.

I tried D-Link and LinkSys and they were PITA hardware that always failed...I junked them, smashed them, and threw them over my hillside.
 

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Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 12-24-2006, 07:12 PM:
 
I have never had good luck dealing with other people's D-Link equipment, so I've never bought it.

I've have a Linksys router at home for over two years that works great for normal use, but I occasionally need to run a lot of connections (75+ asking for the same port) through it at once which sometimes causes it to lock up. But for normal everyday use, it's great.

I recently bought a Linksys gigabit switch to use behind the router that has made me very happy since I don't like waiting for files to move across the network.

So I guess you could say that I like to use Linksys, although the Netgear switches I've used have not given me any problems. I don't know about their routers, though.

Whatever you do, don't go super-cheapo and get something crappy like Belkin.
 

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Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 12-24-2006, 08:04 PM:
 
Oh, crap, Phil! I just bought a Linksys system. I wanted Netgear, but the particular unit I wanted wasn't on the shelf at Best Buy, so...

Christmas Eve, and they were getting ready to close, so I took the plunge with Linksys. So far, it setup like a breeze (unlike that DLink POS), and now every friggin' computer and game console in the house is online!! I'm writing this from my laptop (for the first time). Thanks for all the input.


 

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Posted by Jason Black (Member # 684) on 12-24-2006, 11:28 PM:
 
I've had a Linksys wireless router (4 port switch) for about three years now and it works like a champ. Had my buddy set it up as a secure network.. so anyone coming over looking for wireless has to get a WEP key...

I'm actually thinking about upgrading to a faster router.. I hear the 802.1n is a much faster signal processor (something like 100mbs) and I like teh idea of faster is better... ;0
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 12-24-2006, 11:41 PM:
 
I forgot to mention that the Linksys router I have had going for the past few years (BFSRSFS41 or whatever) was used when one of my PCs acted as a web server and it handled lots of incoming requests great, though sometimes the software on the PC would quit running and therefore a connection wouldn't be made if someone dialed up the site. I think I just got lucky and obtained one of the rare good Linksyses. Also I have a lot of illegally downloaded videos on my PC, and I have illegally installed some software onto my Xbox which will allow me to illegally watch the illegal videos on my TV. The Xbox always finds the PC and I can view or listen to any media file (illegally of course) as a result. The router handles high definition streams going through, people accessing the web site, and my Mac checking for e-mail and downloading porn ALL SIMULTANEOUSLY without any problem.

Phil's post reminded me that I also smashed my old Linksys router to the point of being unrecognizable one time when it failed. I was very angry. That was the router before this one. Maybe my current one saw what I did to the one that stopped working, and now it knows better?
 

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Posted by Jason Burroughs (Member # 68) on 12-27-2006, 04:44 PM:
 
I've pretty much exclusivly used Linksys routers and switches for the home network. The only real problems I have had, have been related to the crappy power bricks. The power brick issues could easily happen regardlesss wether it was Linksys, Netgear etc.

I currently have been using a WRT54G for about 2 years, with various versions of the firmware - there's a GREAT 3rd party market out there for Linksys devices.

Wireless is pretty efficient for when we bring the work laptops home, and for a wireless bridge to the living room.

About 6 months ago we upgraded the switch to a gig switch.
 

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Posted by Joel N. Weber II (Member # 3530) on 01-02-2007, 12:14 AM:
 
I've found that the Juniper NetScreen series of routers seem to work better than the various consumer-grade routers I've dealt with, but whether they're worth the extra money probably depends on whether you're dealing with a decent-sized organization that believes time is money, or whether you're a home user trying to spend as little as possible.

The Juniper routers do offer a bunch of extra flexibility which comes at the cost of needing to spend more time really learning about what they can do to use them effectively.

(Also, the newer SSG series probably offers a better price/performance ratio than the old NetScreen series if you want anything bigger than the NetScreen 5, but I haven't quite yet gotten to see an SSG series router in production use.)
 

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Posted by David Buckley (Member # 2600) on 01-02-2007, 03:15 PM:
 
Juniper - thats funny

Daryl is absolutely on the money here. If you want a cheap router for home xDSL use, then they're all about the same, and it's pot luck. If a router costs next to nothing and works for a year then blows up, buy another, they're disposable. You dont need support.

If internet is critical to your business thyen you should be prepared to pay up in the same way you are prepared to pay for any other critical element of your business. That means quality kit, and being prepared to pay people to come and fix things.

I feel for Netgear. Netgear were one of the first el-cheapo brands, but they were the birthchild of Bay Networks, and the original NetGear kit was economically priced, worked, and came in metal boxes. I've got several items of NetGear kit (mostly print servers) that are now many years old and still work, and I'm sure will continue to work for years to come. I dont know if modern NetGear are still a cut above the rest, but since their product is at similer price points to everyone elses, somehow I doubt it.

Cheap brands of router I've had good luck with include ZyXEL and Draytek Vigor, this message comes to you through a Vigor 2600 and ZyXEL ZyWALL, both over 5 years and running...
 

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