Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: New Machine Gun Fires 50 Rounds Per Second!

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-03-2006, 08:29 AM:

California nuclear lab brings out the big guns
Defense system now includes 6-barrel Gatling machine guns

Thursday, February 2, 2006; Posted: 10:11 p.m. EST (03:11 GMT)

LIVERMORE, California (AP) -- Officials at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory have added a new weapon to their armory: a high-powered machine gun that can fire more than 50 rounds per second.

The weapon, unveiled Thursday, is a six-barrel Gatling gun called the Dillon Aero M134D. An undisclosed number of the guns will be mounted on vehicles and elsewhere at the lab.

"What we want to do is equip our protective force with the capability that will leave no doubt about the outcome," said Linton Brooks, head of the National Nuclear Security Administration.

Lab critics questioned the wisdom of putting such powerful guns at the lab, which is across the street from suburban homes. They say the real problem is that the lab site, which is relatively small at 1 square mile, is not a good place for nuclear materials.

"If you don't have the firepower, that's one kind of security weakness, but if you do have the firepower, you potentially endanger nearby workers and community members because it's such a compact site," said Marylia Kelley, executive director of Tri-Valley CARES, a Livermore-based activist group.

Lab spokeswoman Susan Houghton said the guns add "one more layer of protection."

The 8,000-employee lab is 50 miles east of San Francisco.

Posted by Greg Mueller (Member # 17) on 02-03-2006, 09:06 AM:

I don't get what's nuclear about it. Does it fire depleted uranium slugs or something? Why is it a threat to the community? Sounds like a regular mini gun, except faster.

Posted by Dick Vaughan (Member # 540) on 02-03-2006, 09:14 AM:

50 rounds a second! Pah! [thumbsdown]

Try the Phalanx system which also is a 6 barrel 20mm rotary cannon. Up to 4500 rounds a minute ,75 rounds a second! [thumbsup]

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 02-03-2006, 01:02 PM:

..can you imaging having something like this in the Pacific Theatre during WW-II?

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 02-03-2006, 01:16 PM:

HEY! I have a use for one of those! Where can I get one?

Posted by Dominic Espinosa (Member # 2122) on 02-03-2006, 01:32 PM:

I just might be relocating to Livermore this summer. I'm very excited.
I think that weapon would do wonders for those damn skaters that love to hang out in front of movie theaters [evil]

Posted by Greg Mueller (Member # 17) on 02-03-2006, 01:40 PM:

The other night on "Mail Call" they did a story on a machine gun shoot here
http://www.machinegunshoot.com/

You can buy the ammo and shoot your favorite machine gun. One of the guns was a "mini". Imagine what it would cost to squeeze off a couple of burst on that baby. [Eek!]

At night they have a "night shoot" and use tracers. They bring out cars full of dynamite and let the shooters blast them till they blow. Then they bring out some more.

You can also ride in a helicopter and drill the cars from overhead with an M60

They had a few larger ordinance pieces like a 50 cal and a flame thrower

Check out the photo gallery on that website

Posted by Robert Minichino (Member # 3495) on 02-03-2006, 02:03 PM:

quote: Greg Mueller
I don't get what's nuclear about it.

They're referring to the nuclear materials that LLNL handles, not the guns. The guns are probably some of the less dangerous things around that place. [Wink]

Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 02-03-2006, 02:03 PM:

If there is one American gun I would not mind hanging on my wall as an historical piece, it is a "Chicago Typewriter" in the archives of the Chicago P.D...balistics test have shown that this rare piece was one of the weapons used in the St. Valentine's Day Massacre.

Posted by Greg Mueller (Member # 17) on 02-03-2006, 02:14 PM:

I made a few pieces for the "Star Wars Project" at LL when that project was going. That was a while back. The reason I was wondering about the depleted uranium slugs is that they use those in our big tanks to blow holes in the bad guy tanks.

Will
Is that the Thompson 45 cal?
Are there any pictures?
Arizona is a class 3 state isn't it?

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 02-03-2006, 04:04 PM:

Greg, is this the same site where I read in a magazine where they shot up a 1984 Caddy Coupe deVille? Vehicle was actually in pretty good condition outside of the engine needing rebuilt.

Would that be the "Tommy" Thompson 45 machine gun you're asking about?

thx-Monte

Posted by Greg Mueller (Member # 17) on 02-03-2006, 04:30 PM:

yep

Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 02-03-2006, 05:09 PM:

Hi Greg

I am not a gun owner or maker. A few of my friends who are master craftsman/tool and mold makers are...so I really appreciate the artistic craftsmanship that goes into them.

I saw a program on the Discovery Channel about the "Massacre" where the Chicago PD displayed that gun...yes, it is a 45 Thompson. Balistics testing showed that it was used in the "Massacre".

I guess one thing that really p.o'ed me about guns is something that hit home. The fiance of someone very close to me was a first class nut job who owned a few guns and was very dangerous and careless with them...causing a potentially dangerous situation. So, I took the guns along with the ammo to the Tucson P.D. for voluntary turn-in. After all, their voluntary gun turn-in programs had a lot of publicity! So, after explaining the situation to them, they were not interested in verifying that the fiance was the registered owner, and refused to accept the guns or ammo! WOW...considering the fact that this individual was a first-class problem child with whom the Tucson PD had to deal with on a regular basis (violent and aggressive behavior)! Luckily the SOB had some major health problems that ultimately led to his/her death...some of those health problems affecting his/her erratic behavior.
(his/her used to hid gender/identy)

Cheers

K

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 02-03-2006, 05:28 PM:

Not too many weapons fire depleted uranium slugs. I don't know the bore diameter of the Dillon Aero M134D, but considering the somewhat compact appearance of the gun, I doubt the military would have any depleted uranium rounds for it.

Probably the most famous US military weapon using depleted uranium tipped bullets is the 30mm seven-barrel cannon on the nose cone of A-10 Warthog and Thunderbolt anti-tank jets. It has a cyclic rate of 3600 rounds per minute, 60 rounds per second. I argue it's the most badass machine gun on the planet.

Sure, the Phalax chain gun found on aircraft carriers and other Navy ships has nearly double the cyclic rate. However, it can be a huge pain in the ass to maintain. And it fires standard 20mm anti-aircraft bullets. By comparison, the 30mm rounds used in an A-10 Warthog are quite a bit larger.

When I was in middle school our family was stationed at Chandler Field, Belle Chasse, LA. The Naval Air Station had a squadron of A-10 Warthogs. During air shows (featuring the Blue Angels) they would have at least a couple A-10s out on display will all types of ammo used spread under the jets. Naturally those displays were cordened off and guarded. But it was still cool to see the bombs, bullets and missles the A-10 could carry. It's an old jet. But still very badass to this day.

This is from a Miliary.com page:

quote:
Depleted Uranium: Fast Facts

Depleted uranium is 70% more dense than lead, and 15% more dense than tungsten (the other metal commonly used for projectiles) -- this gives it more kinetic energy when fired. As a comparison, the amount of depleted uranium that would fill a 12-ounce can of Coke would weigh over 14 pounds.

Depleted uranium burns and melts as it penetrates steel, becoming 'sharper' rather than blunting, resulting in increased destructive power.

Projectiles made from depleted uranium are cheaper to manufacture than those made from tungsten because it can be cast easily.

Depleted Uranium's Current Uses:

Army
- 120 mm or 105 mm caliber projectiles used by the M1 Abrams and M60A3 tanks
- 25mm projectiles used by the M242 mounted on the M2 Bradley and the LAV-AT
- Some Abrams tanks have DU rods as reinforcements as part of its armour plating

Navy
- 20mm CIWS and 25mm Mk38 machine gun

Air Force
- 30mm caliber projectiles used by A-10 Thunderbolt II

Marine Corps
- 25 mm projectiles used by AV-8B Harrier
- 20mm projectiles for electric Gatling gun mounted on AH-1 helicopter gunships

Posted by Greg Mueller (Member # 17) on 02-03-2006, 05:34 PM:

Yah there's a lot of nuts out there that should not have guns (or baseball bats or even pointy sticks) It's one of the reasons I don't hunt anymore. To many drunks being very irresponsible with a life taking device. Now I and my friends just target shoot targets (Osama targets [Big Grin]

)
Used sanely and responsibly, by law abiding citizens, you can have a lot of fun. It's the irresponsible, insane, law breaking, nuts, that give the rest of us a bad name.

Bobby
It's interesting to note that the german tanks of WWII used a solid round to pierce the armour of the Shermans. They didn't need to explode, their velocity and solidity easilly pierced the armour.
Gunny went out and saw the Abrams in one of his shows. It's where I saw the weird looking round (uranium) that they use. It didn't even look like a bullet. But what a lot of "whop-ass"

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-03-2006, 06:49 PM:

Yes! The Phalinx specs are pretty amazing but its not a manual point and shoot weapon... its all computerized. The new livermore gun is a manual point and shoot type of weapon... probably for mounting on a chopper. Arnold should get one of these for the next Terminator film!

Primary Function Anti-ship missile defense
Contractor Raytheon Systems Company
(formerly Hughes Missile Systems Company and purchased from General Dynamics Pomona Division in 1992)
Weight 12,500 pounds (5,625 kg)
Later models 13,600 pounds (6,120 kg)
Range Classified
Gun Type M-61A1 Gatling
Type of Fire 3,000 rounds per minute
- Later models 4,500 rounds/min
(starting 1988 production, Pneumatic Gun Drive)
Magazine Capacity 989 rounds
Later models 1,550 rounds
Caliber 20mm
Ammunition Armor Piercing Discarding Sabot (APDS),
Depleted Uranium or Tungsten sub-caliber penetrator.
Sensors Self-contained search and track radar
Search Radar Ku-band; digital MTI
Track Radar Ku-band; pulse Doppler monopulse
E/O Sensor FLIR Imaging System with Automatic ACQ Tracker
Fire Control Director with closed-loop spotting
Gun Drive Pneumatic
Mount Drive Electric
Date Deployed 1980 (aboard USS Coral Sea)
Later models 1988 (aboard USS Wisconsin)

Posted by Greg Mueller (Member # 17) on 02-03-2006, 06:56 PM:

So if they don't hit what they're aiming at in the first 30 seconds, the party's over

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 02-03-2006, 07:57 PM:

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
Date Deployed 1980 (aboard USS Coral Sea)
Later models 1988 (aboard USS Wisconsin)

So, basically, this weapon being installed at Lawrence Livermore Labs is not really a new gun, right? Maybe some reporter was watching Predator on DVD and the scene with Bill Duke shooting up the forest with a mini-gun inspired a "news article," yes?
[Razz]

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 02-03-2006, 08:44 PM:

The article is a bit confusing to me.

Are they talking about the danger from a gun that fires 50 RPS, or are they talking about the danger from the nuclear facility?

Basically sounds like the neighbors are belly-aching about nothing in particular and are using the idea of "big guns" to stir the pot... Just a bunch of N.I.M.B.Y.s.

As to the gun:

50 rounds per second is pretty fast but it's not THAT amazing.
It's a six-barrell gatling gun. That's only 8.33 rounds per second for each barrell. With motorized ammunition feed and mechanical extraction of the spent round (as opposed to inertial extraction that occurs on your average gun) that's not really that remarkable a feat at all.

No... What would be amazing is the size of your ammunition bill and the end of the day!