This is topic A Visit ToThe Union Pacific Steam Shops in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-14-2006, 12:51 PM:
 
Recently while doing service work in Cheyenne, Wyoming I had the good fortune to be able to visit and tour both the UP Steam Shops, Roundhouse, and yards. This is the home base where the famous 3985 Challenger and 844 steam locomotives are kept and maintained. The 3985 Challenger is the largest operating Steam locomotive in the world. There is alot to see in this place and its better than any train museum I've ever been to! Also on loaction are a set of E-9 diesels from 1955 that look as though they just left the factory yesterday. In the roundhouse are kept 2 extra large UP steam locomotives that are used for parts as well as a huge railway snow blower and Centennial Diesel locomotive 6936 which is also in like new consdition and the last operating example of this largest Diesel locomotive ever built. What a cool place .

Locomotive 844 under steam just outside the UP Steam Shop. It was being readied for an excursion run later this month. It weighs in at a mere 980,000 lbs fueled.



3985 Challenger Locomotive. This was the second largest locomotive in the UP fleet and the largest steamer still in operation in the world. Weighs in at a mere 1,280,000 lbs fully fueled, 5,000 to 6,000 equivelent horsepower, it still takes at least two modern diesels to equal its pull and 100,000 lbs tractuive force. This single engine can pull a modern day very long freight train all by itself! Its out of action for at least two more years for main driver, linkage, and bearing repairs.



One of the Electro-Motive E-9 units that is in better than new condition. These famous diesels powered all UP Streamliners starting in 1955.



Mark
 

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Posted by William T. Parr (Member # 677) on 04-14-2006, 01:43 PM:
 
Now I am jealous. Let me know if you ever make it in to he Bunker at Omaha. The Bunker is UP's main dispatching center. They dispatch just abou everyting run on the UP from there except parts of the Old Missouri Pacific and Southern Pacific lines in Texas, Arkansas and Louisiana. Those were moved back o he old MP Spring Dispacthers desk about 6 years ago.
 

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Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 04-14-2006, 03:36 PM:
 
Hi Mark

That is just great being able to tour those shops! 3895 is still used for freight service. I have a Mark I video circa 1990 of 3985 on special excursion. One leg of the excursion had 3985 running lite (no cars), so instead of a "wasted run" UP put her into freight service for that leg of the excursion.

I was very fortunate in my youth to ride SP 4449 as part of the 1984 Louisiana Worlds Fair from Tucson to Phoenix.

For model railroaders, PFM/Tenshodo imported a very limited and highly detailed run of Challengers around 1999. If memory serves me right there was only either 25 or 50 of the units in the run, and each model was individual. The models were around $3K each and Tenshodo had stated that that would be the last time they would ever produce a brass Challenger. A few years ago a few of them had popped up on E-bay.

Cheers

Kutler
 

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Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 04-14-2006, 04:58 PM:
 
I've ridden the 8444 as an excursion train from Denver to Larime and back in the late 1970s. I've seen the Challenger all fired up down at Union Station in Denver.

So the Challenger fully fuled weighs the same as the Airbus A-380 at maximum take-off weight. Think about that!
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-14-2006, 05:23 PM:
 
Great pics, Mark. There's nothing like the sound of a big steamer starting up.
 

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Posted by Floyd Justin Newton (Member # 1316) on 04-14-2006, 08:18 PM:
 
soooo.....let's just put wings on the Challenger!
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-14-2006, 08:23 PM:
 

quote:

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So the Challenger fully fuled weighs the same as the Airbus A-380 at maximum take-off weight. Think about that!

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Now go back and figure that weight on the Challenger per square foot of space taken up on the ground and the A380 will look like a wuss comparatively speaking.

I have to admit that there isn't much out around Cheyenne but there is alot in Cheyenne. 14 Norelco DP-70's, The Steam Shops, lots of decent antique stores, and a Sanfords Grub and Pub. What a great place to have fun working!

Mark
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-14-2006, 10:49 PM:
 
Plus, you're fairly close to the world's largest model train store, Caboose Hobbies in Denver. My credit card starts sweating when I get within 100 miles of that place!
 

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Posted by Mike Heenan (Member # 392) on 04-14-2006, 11:20 PM:
 
My interest in railroads is strictly limited to the movie Silver Streak. Hiliarious! Pryor and Wilder at their best.
 

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Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 04-15-2006, 10:44 AM:
 
Hi Floyd

Actually the Challengers and Big Boys had "wings" or "elephant ears"...aka smoke deflectors. They were options that were added and removed depending on U.P. operating experiments. Marks pic of the 844 shows the "wings" the sheetmetal pannel that runs the length of the smokebox and front portion of the boiler. The 3985 is missing hers. Purpose of these pannels was to deflect smoke away from the locomotive and to help improve the engineers line of vision. They really did not work so well at slower speeds.

The 4-8-4 wheel arrangement was generically referred to as the "Northern" type locomotive. But there were several different types used by several different roads...The U.P. 844, the S.P. G.S. series (Daylights like 4449) and the N & W Class J (Bullet Nosed) were all "Northerns"

As for the Challengers, there were two different series designed by U.P. and ALCO and built by ALCO for the U.P. The early series was known as the "Fetters" named after Arthur Fetters. The second type, which includes 3985, is the "Jableman" series named after Otto Jableman.

The "must have book" re: Challengers and Big Boys are by William Kratville. Those might still be available and I have the Challenger book.

The other two "must haves" are very rare and fetch $500.00 -$1k as rare books. Those are both by Dr. Robert Church regarding the S.P. Cab Forwards and the S.P. G.S. Golden State or General Service depending on who is asked type "Northerns".

Yes, Caboose Hobbies is a must see meca, but you can also visit their store website @ www.caboosehobbies.com I am always browsing their brass section looking for stuff that I cannot afford

San Franscisco and Northern California has soooo many quality model rr and general hobby stores that one could become lost for decades!

Cheers

K
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-15-2006, 10:56 AM:
 
Will,

You're right.... thats a bad place to be a looking.... found this 4-8-8-4 for a mere 10 grand. I think I'll get a half dozen of them!

According to the video I have the "smoke wings" were only added once in the 90's for an excursion with the 3985 and then removed. Freight service used to have to wait for passenger service to pass by them but today its the other way round and part of what makes Scamtrack late all the time. The UP passenger service 4-8-4's always had them because they were always running fast and needed to keep the smoke out of the passenger cars.

Mark
 

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Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 04-15-2006, 01:32 PM:
 
Hi Mark

Here is another web-site for you http://www.livesteamlocomotives.com/id10.html

Cheers:

K
 

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Posted by Thomas Jonsson (Member # 1902) on 09-14-2006, 02:17 PM:
 
This post awakened my old interest in steam locomotives, and I
have looked around a lot on the internet to find some nice models.
There are lots and lots in the N and H0 scales, but I´m also
looking for something really big.

I found the web site for "USA trains", and they have models in the
1:29 scale of Big Boy and the New York Central J1e Hudson. They
look really fine on the pictures, but has anyone here on the
Forums seen any of them "live". Are they as good as they look?

Or can you give me some advice where to look for large scale
steam locomotives (at a reasonable price). Thanks!

Thomas
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 09-14-2006, 06:25 PM:
 
Thomas - I have seen some of the 1:29 models at the (above-mentioned) Caboose Hobbies in Denver. They are really great because they're so big, the details are excellent. I saw a Hudson in the store once that had a price tag of $5,000.00! (Not sure of the manufacturer.) But lots of good looking models can be had for much less.
 

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Posted by Charles Greenlee (Member # 3856) on 09-16-2006, 12:50 AM:
 
My friend has a Lionel (brand) HO scale Challenger, and it is beautiful. It has lights and sound with chuff, dynamo, breaks, coupling, startup, shutdown, venting, etc. It also has a DCC controller in it, meaning it can be computer controlled. The DCC module is programmable, allowing for you to configure the lights, so they flash, strobe, or have some other effect, even emulate a mars light. It also allows for simulated momentum. Really nice engine, he got it off ebay, but I don't remember how much. I don't think Lionel is making HO engines anymore, so what is out, is it.
 

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Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 09-16-2006, 10:27 AM:
 
If you want a collector brass model you might want to look at the early 1990s HO brass by Key Imports that were built by Samhongsa. There were two versions, a $500.00 one and the $1500.00 one. The latter had all the bells and whistles and superdetail (operating sand dome and turrett hatches. operating tender hatches, full cab detail, etc, etc).

You might also look at Tenshodo, but these get quite pricy, usually. Just avoid the early 1960s version with the incorrect flat bottom smoke box. The last time PFM imported a Tenshodo Challenger was around 1990. There were 50 pieces in the run and each was individual. Very fine detail including sprung and equalized wheels from the pilot truck to the trailing truck. These came in Walnut presentation boxes and were well over $2K.

But throughout the 1990s there have been several imported Big Boys and Challengers from a variety of importers, the models usually being made by either Samhongsa or Ajin (Overland Models), but Samhongsa is usually much higher quality than Ajin.

There are real differences between Tenshodo and Samhongsa. While both models are hand built the Tenshodo models were usually done in small Mom/Pop shops. THe Samhongsa models were done in a big factory. The Tenshodo models usually have a more "character" in them. Also, the Tenshodo models tend to be a lot less delicate than the Samhongsa models. You can usually hold a Tenshodo model in your hand w/o worrying about damaging it. The Samhongsa models usually have a lighter gage boiler sheetmetal construction and can be a little bit more delicate to handle.

If you wish to superdetail, many of the investment-cast parts that went onto the Tenshodo Big Boys and Challengers were done by Cal-Scale and they have been readily available to the public since the 1960's.

Also, one can purchase the old Bowser die-cast Challenger or Big Boy and detail with those Cal Scale parts. For the tender, one usually uses the Revell plastic model kit.

Also, one should contact Model Railroader Magazine for the series of articles (The Art of Superdetailing by Bob Darwin) that dates to ~ 1960-1962/3?
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 09-16-2006, 12:26 PM:
 
Lionel has a new O-guage UP Big Boy that is beautiful:

 

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Posted by Charles Greenlee (Member # 3856) on 09-16-2006, 09:02 PM:
 
Lionel does some excellet work, regardless of the scale, too bad they decided to go back to doing just the O-guage. My personel fav. engine is my Hornby A4. It's not fancy or extremely expensive, but it is a nice engine. Not to mention, how can you argue with having the worlds fastest steam loco in your set. I need to get it a DCC and sound module, and drop it in.
 

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Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 09-16-2006, 10:04 PM:
 
There has been a notorius on-going legal battle between Lionel and Mikes Train House.
 

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Posted by Charles Greenlee (Member # 3856) on 09-17-2006, 01:36 PM:
 
I didn't know that. What's it about?
 

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Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 09-17-2006, 09:49 PM:
 
The battle has been ongoing, but Lionel lost. Both companies had products made by Korean manufacturers (Samhongsa, Korea Brass). Turns out that employees of one manufacturer stole blueprints and sold to the competitor which was subsequently used to manufacturer a Lionel product.
 

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Posted by Thomas Jonsson (Member # 1902) on 09-18-2006, 03:03 PM:
 
Thank you very much for the info. Helped me to find
other links, almost without end... I didn´t realize
there were so many manufacturers of the G and 1 scale,
both electric and live steam.

You really have to control yourself, not to ruin your
economy on those beautiful models!

Thomas
 

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Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 09-18-2006, 03:43 PM:
 
The era of the imported brass model is comming to an end.

Samhongsa quit production and there are only a very few importers left.

There is a forum for brass model enthusiasts: www.brassbackshop.com

The reasons for the demise of brass are many:

The Japenese and Koreans have their own ways of doing business and are usually difficult to deal with. They have adamantly refused to supply importers with such things as spare parts for customer repairs and for those modelers who would like a model in kit for...FORGET IT...let alone those wanting to get parts to redetail or scratch build their own models!!

A major attitude in model railroading circles is that people (customers) are just interested in RTR and that there is no-one left in the hobby interested in scratch-building or superdetailing. If this is the case, then why is the area of generic plastic modeling and other forms of modeling and desk-top machine tool manufacturers like Sherline exploding??? In my humble opinion, the attitude in model railroading circles is really screwd up and ass-backwards!

In the area of newer rtr(plastic) model locomotives the detail is quite excellent and in some cases rivals brass models at a fraction of the cost. But what some people do not understand is that in many cases the tooling used to produce these new plastic models can also be used for the creation of wax models for investment (lost-wax) casting for the construction of brass models.

And brass models contain every form of metal work known (chemical milling w/sheet-metal forming) casting and die-stamping (coining and machining...not to mention soldering, die and fixture building, etc.
 

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Posted by Thomas Jonsson (Member # 1902) on 09-19-2006, 12:22 PM:
 
I´m not actually looking for brass models, rather a
large scale model of a handsome machine, like the die
cast models of the Big Boy or Hudson from USA trains.
But what looks great on a photo, might perhaps not look
quite as good in real life. That´s why I was curious if
anyone had seen any of those models "live".

Thomas
 

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Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 11-02-2006, 10:06 PM:
 
The other night I watched the classic Sinatra, Novak, Hayworth film "Pal Joey".

The opening scene involves a SP GS-4 Daylight locomotive. The numberboard is clearly depicted...I forgot the number, but it was just a few numbers ahead of our beloved 4449. I think it was 4445 or 4446?

The locomotive is in its post-war state, painted solid black (no longer bearing Daylight colors) and the famous skirting was removed.

Thomas...if you want a nice "Challenger" in kit form you can buy the old Bowser Challenger model. You can then detail with the Cal-Scale Challenger/Big Boy parts that are still marketed by Cal Scale and were originally used on the famed Tenshodo models. Those castings are quite nice. Most of those parts came from injection molding tooling. Famed modeler Bob Darwin made most of the patterns and were featured in his now famous articles from the early 1960's "The Art of Superdetailing" which appeared in Model Railroader magazine. Unfortunately Bowser never did have a tender for their Challenger or Big Boy models...so most people used the tender from the old Revell Big Boy plastic kit.

Of course if you are a real detail nut the Bowser Challenger is not right for you as it is "rough" and has some incorrect detail. But if you want a nice hefty model that you can build and detail...and that will haul an impressive load on the layout, then it can be a good model.

Cheers

Kutler
 

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Posted by Thomas Jonsson (Member # 1902) on 11-05-2006, 03:08 PM:
 
Many thanks, Will! I´ll see if I can find it on the internet, to
see what model you mean. Right now I´m considering an "insider
model" from Marklin (Germany). It´s a German express steamer, very
detailed and nice looking, model nr 55900 gauge 1.

Thomas
 

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Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 11-07-2006, 07:39 PM:
 
Here is a link to the Bowser Big Boy/Challenger models. The tooling for these models is probably about 50 years old or so. These are die-cast and the Big Boy was created by modifying the original Challenger tooling and extending the firebox. http://www.bowser-trains.com/holocos/challenger/challenger.htm

The Bowser kit comes without all the brass parts...which are available as a seperate kit. All of these brass parts were used on the famed PFM/Tenshodo models and were made by Cal Scale, who was originally concieved (along with PIA) to produce investment castings for the imported brass model. Bowser/Cal Scale are under same ownership. One glaring error of this model is the incorrect flat smoke box bottom.

Their competitor, Precision Scale Company (PSC), has a Big Boy/Challenger cab detail kit. Unlike Cal-Scale/Bowser PSC does not have their catalogs on-line (you need to order and pay for them).

I was looking at a few of the plastic HO Big Boy models at a local hobby shop this past weekend. One was Athern and I forgot the other...but it was around $800.00. Both models were nice, but for an extra $400.00 I'd save up and find the brass Big Boy or Challenger model, built by Samhongsa for Key Imports 1994-1995 or thereabouts. There were two versions of the model..a $500.00 "Plain-Jane" and the expensive model with all the fine, working detail.

Beware of the late 1950's Tenshodo models...some are dirt cheap due to the incorrect flat smoke box bottom like the Bowser die-cast models.

The model that Bob Darwin detailed in his famous articles was the 1960-1961 Tenshodo Challenger/Big Boy. Some of the detail work that he did on that model rivals some of the expensive detail on newer $2000.00 models.

Cheers

Kutler
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-01-2007, 04:16 PM:
 
There is another really good video avaialble of the 3985 as part of a package of 4 DVD's on trains. This package is available from Costco no less. Look for "Train's Spectaculuar"... I got my set for $14.99. Highly reccomemded. The picture quality of this DVD is actually superior to the DVD that you can buy from Union PAcific!

Mark
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 02-01-2007, 06:11 PM:
 

quote: Will Kutler

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The battle has been ongoing, but Lionel lost. Both companies had products made by Korean manufacturers (Samhongsa, Korea Brass). Turns out that employees of one manufacturer stole blueprints and sold to the competitor which was subsequently used to manufacturer a Lionel product.

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quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

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One of the Electro-Motive E-9 units that is in better than new condition. These famous diesels powered all UP Streamliners starting in 1955.

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quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

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The Electromotive E-9 is actually quite different than the Deltec and less powerful (2400 HP) originally being equipped with two 1200 HP V-12 engines each turning its own genny.

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