Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: No Sony CRT-based TV sets anymore (RIP Trinitron)

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Posted by Michael Barry (Member # 237) on 05-29-2006, 05:31 AM:

I went shopping on the weekend to buy my mother (for her 71st birthday!) a new TV.

I was shocked to discover that Sony (my favourite brand of TV set) no longer manufacture CRT TV's anymore. They have abandoned that technology entirely in favour of LCD screens. (For that matter - interestingly enough - it seems as though they have abandoned Plasma technology too). Stock levels of the old CRT models are virtually extinct everywhere. (Fortunately, I was able to track down one of the last ones).

The problems with this is that LCD sets mostly don't look as good as conventional sets, as well as being far more expensive for the same screen size. I don't want to pay 2-3 times more for something worse!

So where does this leave us? Bobby Henderson has mentioned here several times that LCD computer screens don't offer sufficient resolution for his graphic design practice. Are they going to continue to make CRTs for specialty applications, or not at all?

Sony Trinitron - I'll miss you...

Michael.

Posted by Mark Ogden (Member # 43) on 05-29-2006, 07:10 AM:

I don't know if they have totally abandoned CRTs, the Sony Web Store still has a few available. Just a few months ago, I was able to buy one of the last issue of the KD34XBR960n model, a nearly 200lb. CRT HDTV set. I had to search like hell for it though, most of the retailers in the area don't touch tube sets at all anymore, including Sony's own retail stores (they told me CRTs account for less than 10% of sales, while at the same time agreeing that tubes have a superior picture. Go figure). In all my searching, I found only one LCD based set that I thought had a really great picture, but it was $15,000 without a tuner (the Sony Qualia 003, now itself discontinued).

Posted by Alexander Smith (Member # 1769) on 05-29-2006, 01:34 PM:

I remember paying a good sum of money for a Sony G200 17"
monitor some years ago, and it's a decision I've never
regretted once. Very capable monitor, it will sync to nearly
any combination of VGA-ish signal and the picture looks
stunning. Once you've spent some minutes fiddling with the
geometry controls to make it look neat.

I had to have the main on/off switch replaced under warranty,
but that's the only difficulty I've had with it.

R.I.P. Trinitron.

Alex.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 05-29-2006, 05:04 PM:

Do they make ANY LCD sets with a real HDTV resolution. I think all Sony sets are 768p, which has nothing at all to do with HDTV. Why they can't make them 720p is beyond me. I think they'd look better at their native resolution instead of being upscaled a tiny bit. Then they have those fake 1080p sets. Any set that won't accept a 1080p input is a fake 1080p set.

SED is supposed to be better than LCD and plasma, right? When is that coming?

Posted by Steve Scott (Member # 630) on 05-29-2006, 06:27 PM:

Their Vega models' (or Wega depending on which store you frequent) pictures have been severely over modulated for years. My roommate's early model is probably the nicest to watch, but to do so is greatly benefitted by turning OFF the velocity modulation, a feature Sony loves, yet turns any image into a muddy, over-sharp bastard. The newer models got worse with it. Sadly it's a feature preset to high when taken out of the box.

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 05-29-2006, 06:45 PM:

SED is coming later this year in limited numbers and going wide next year. Personally, I wouldn't consider spending plasma amounts of money until seeing these SED displays. SED is rumored to be the plasma killer.

Sony's SXRD (LCOS LCD) Grand Wega RP sets are 1920x1080 native and claim 1080p. Haven't verified the 1080p, but I have seen the 50" and 60" versions in stores and have been impressed. But it does depend on the store - the SXRD sets at Fry's here looked like crap, but the ones at Best Buy looked very good. Imagine that. [Smile]

Yes, RIP Trinitron. Those were some great CRTs.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 05-29-2006, 06:55 PM:

I've always been confused why Sony pronounces "Wega" as "Vega"? It is clearly spelled with a "W". If that is supposed to be a "V", then that indicates that the TV must have some SEVERE convergence issues! Or perhaps Sony is just retarded and/or has no respect for the English langauge? If that is the case, I think I will start spelling ソニー as たわごと instead!

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 05-29-2006, 06:59 PM:

The current SXRD sets will not accept a 1080p signal via the HDMI input (or any other input AFAIK), even though the set is technically capable of handling it. The same is true of some other makes of 1080p sets. So the magazine reviewers say anyway. There are a few that will take a 1080p input, like HP and Westinghouse.

[ 05-29-2006, 08:50 PM: Message edited by: David Stambaugh ]

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 05-29-2006, 08:31 PM:

If Sony stops making CRT televisions, AFAIC, there will be no reason to buy any Sony product anymore.

Their products have slowly turned to crap, over the years. The Trinitron tube is the only reason I would buy a Sony, nowadays.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 05-30-2006, 02:44 PM:

My understanding is that CRT based TV died about 2 years ago. The supply chain is THAT long. There are no CRT factories in the Americas. Louis

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 05-30-2006, 07:15 PM:

That's fine because the best TVs are usually made in Japan.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-30-2006, 08:46 PM:

quote: Louis Bornwasser
There are no CRT factories in the Americas.

There are still a few in the U.S. but nothing being made for the big set manufacturers. Clinton Electronics near Rockford, IL. is a large manufacturer of all types of CRT's. They also do custom work too... they have restored two CRT's for my antique televisions over the years and did an excellent job.

FWIW the Trinitron CRT always had lower screen resolution than dot matrix type CRT's. So you all that are in love with the Trinitron have been getting less image detail all these years. Trinitrons are rarely ever used in critical broadcast applications and in most large studios are relegated to be used as audience montors and such. The best feature of the trinitron crt was always its long life span.

Mark

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 05-30-2006, 11:40 PM:

I have an older Trinitron that has pretty good resolution. But recently I went looking for a good 20 inch analog CRT set. The Sony Trinitron definitely had less horizontal resolution and MUCH worse color than the Toshiba I ended up going with.

Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 05-31-2006, 12:47 AM:

I remember reading about the KV-32XBR100 back in the day. Supposedly this was the best CRT to ever hit US shores. I've always wanted one...and even in the digital age, I still kinda do.

AJG

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 05-31-2006, 02:29 AM:

Britain's two CRT factories both closed in the last few years - there was one in South Wales which went in '03 or '04, I think, and the LG factory just south of Newcastle closed last year. I suppose there are powerful environmental arguments against CRTs (and let's face it, cheap and nasty ones look dreadful), but I've yet to see a TFT or plasma that can achieve the black density of a decent one.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-31-2006, 06:29 AM:

Actually, some of the first HD tubes were Trinitrons and where part of the HDVS package when HD first hit broadcast with open-reel 1" machines.

While, the RCA triad could resolve better, it was a bear to keep converged, especially in the corners. With the Trinitron, and other "in-line" sets, the convergence is notably better and easier to keep but it is interesting when one puts up cross-hatch patterns and changes colors to see the cross hatch SHIFT as everything must align with its particular color. You don't get that in a triad system.

Sony's "dead line" from the support wire was another thing against the Trinitron. However, overall, I liked the Trinitron's look...it does not beat a properly converged triad system but it was a reliable good looking picture.

Posted by Michael Barry (Member # 237) on 05-31-2006, 06:37 AM:

I saw a gorgeous HD Trinitron in a telecine bay a few years ago - they were working on 'Ali'. WOW. WOW! Never seen a video image like it - ever. I don't know if I ever will again.

The closest I might come to it in the future might be a blu-ray/SED combo - who knows what results that combo may bring?

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-31-2006, 06:47 AM:

quote: Steve Guttag
Actually, some of the first HD tubes were Trinitrons and where part of the HDVS package when HD first hit broadcast with open-reel 1" machines.

You are correct in that statement but the only way to actually make use of all the resolution afforded by the system and those tapes was to display them on the Sony built HD projection sets that were also supplied for that format. Those projection sets were typically used in stacked mode for increased brightness and looked remarkably good back then.

I will never forget having to set up and run a film for Ultimatte at a SMPTE meeting in Chicago years back where both that systemn and the Sony HD system were discussed and demoed... After the Sony demo we ran the Ultimatte film and the audience literally let out a gasp since the film was so sharp after having watched the hd video..... At the end of the meeting the fun part was when all the Japaneese Sony engineers came to the back of the room to clamor and look over the Century C that had blown them out of the water...... They were amazed and obviously I think them seeing the 35mm film they knew they had a looooong way to go. And to this day they still have a looooong way to go!

Mark

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 06-01-2006, 09:46 AM:

Mark: you are correct that Trinitrons are low res. I guess it depends on why you watch TV. My use is audio-in-the-background while reading; resolution does not mean much. They are, however, stable and reliable which is why I once preferred them.

I once had a 7" Trintitron; when friends asked why my set was so small, I told them I was in the movie business. TV small; movie big. Louis

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 06-03-2006, 12:22 PM:

While video projectors for the home theatre market are typically LCD or DLP-based and are the size of cereal boxes, there is a cult of CRT projector fanatics who claim nothing comes near the quality of what a CRT will produce, and they won't look at anything projected unless it's from a CRT-based projector.

Evidently these CRT projection units by Sony and others are readily available; a few years ago, a friend of mine sat me down to watch the opening of THE SOUND OF MUSIC off a standard DVD playing via this humungous three tube Sony CRT projector. Seems that lots of these projectors were sold to corporations that needed video projection before the days of the LCD projector technology. The minute the protable LCD and DLP mini projectors came on the scene, the monster CRT units were mothballed or sold to the resellers who refurbish them and sell them for 1/3rd their original price. I must say, the image was much richer and more impressive than any other video projection system I have ever seen. He claims that the CRT projectors can accept any rez signal with no problem.

Thing is, you need a forklift to move them around and they pretty much completely dominate any room they are put in, and even at very reduced "previously owned" price, they still run about $9k - $10k.

I have an Advent three CRT tube VideoBeam (nothing near the level of those industrials units above) that I got way back in 1975 or so. It never needed anything but a flyback transformer replacement sometime in the early 80s. Except for convergence tweaking every now and then (Advent allows you to align quadrants independently of each other making alignment very precise), the 8ft diagonal picture STILL looks damn good after all these years. There is something to be said for CRTs.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-06-2006, 10:36 PM:

quote: Frank Angel
I have an Advent three CRT tube VideoBeam (nothing near the level of those industrials units above) that I got way back in 1975 or so. It never needed anything but a flyback transformer replacement sometime in the early 80s. Except for convergence tweaking every now and then (Advent allows you to align quadrants independently of each other making alignment very precise), the 8ft diagonal picture STILL looks damn good after all these years. There is something to be said for CRTs.

WOW! I am amazed that it still works... I attended the very first Advent Video Beam "Tech school" at the Advent Factory so long ago that I had all but forgotten about it, I want to say it was in late 73 or early 74. The1000 and later 1000A sold for exactly $5,000.00 in early 1970's dollars and were rarely sold at discounted prices. The majority of them made their way into Bars, Restaurants, and Pizza Places. I can say that that TV was way ahead of anything else of its time and for some time to come. Its I.F. and video bandwidth was quite remarkable, good out to 4.5 mhz flat! So many other design features were state of the art including the quadrant convergence you mentioned, and dynamic focus. The CRT's were custom made by Clinton Electronics in Rockford, IL... and they are still around and can rebuild them. The first generation CRT's incorporated an internal schmidt optical system and these tubes were extremely expensive to manufacture. The Special Advent screen's surface was actually Kodak Ektalite material bonded to a concave vacuum molded surface. There was a very high reject rate on the screens of about 1 in 6! The early non cooled CRT's definately required the high reflectivity of that surface... the concave nature of it caused it to be extremely directional and you had to sit directly behind the set to see the brightest image and best color. Later Novatron CRT's were of the direct projection type and while providing a brighter image they compromised the ultra precise convergence and ultra sharp focus that the schmidt tubes afforded.

Advent definately set precident bringing the home theater into reality way before DVD, Laser Disc and VHS tape existed... with that set and looking back at it all it should go down in some book as making a big mark technologically. A half decade after its appearance a flurry of Japaneese projection sets began to appear. The Advent TV caused the ultimate demise of Advent as a company because the extremely high startup costs were never fully recovered. Not disuaded HEnry Kloss founded Kloss Video and kept building projection televisions... Henry Kloss was indeed a genius!

Mark