quote:

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SYDNEY (Reuters) - Steve Irwin, the quirky Australian naturalist who won worldwide acclaim, has died in a marine accident off Australia's northeast coast, local media reported on Monday.
Queensland state government sources quoted by Australian Associated Press (AAP) said Irwin, 44, whose television show "The Crocodile Hunter" won international acclaim and popularized the phrase "Crikey," was believed to have been killed by a stingray barb that pierced his chest.

He was filming an underwater documentary off Port Douglas when the accident occurred, the report said.

Sky Television also reported that Irwin had been stung by a sting ray.

Australian emergency officials could not immediately confirm the reports.

Irwin won a global following for his daredevil antics but also triggered outrage in 2004 by holding his then one-month-old baby while feeding a snapping crocodile at his Australian zoo.

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quote: Chris Hipp

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He died doing what he loved, though. I guess that is really the best any of us can hope for.

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quote: Chris Hipp

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Edit: I just read a few more articles on it and none of them have been confirmed. The station that they were filming for said that a diver has been killed. It probably is him, but it is still not confirmed.

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It be him alright...straight through the wetsuit and into his heart. His associates say it was unprovoked and from what I know of this guy I'd tend to believe it.
 

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Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 09-04-2006, 06:52 AM:
 
Wow - labor day news that is shocking.
 

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Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 09-04-2006, 06:52 AM:
 
Wow - I am still in shock...
 

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Posted by Steve Scott (Member # 630) on 09-04-2006, 08:23 AM:
 
It's been a long while since a headline has surprised me as this one did.

So, now, finally, a nod to his film; an "I told you so" motion toward Timothy Treadwell; and a call to Steve Zissou...

But seriously, sad. Bummer. He put new life into wildlife documentaries. Maybe too much exhibitionism, but at least he attempted to educate.
 

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Posted by Jason Black (Member # 684) on 09-04-2006, 08:28 AM:
 
Sad news indeed.. a tragic turn of events for a man of his stature.

Who would have thought this type accident would happen..?
 

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Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 09-04-2006, 12:16 PM:
 
Sorry about the double post earlier.

Wow, I wanted to mention that I loved Steve's show. It was always a wish of mine to go to the Queensland Zoo and visit the place my family and I have watched on TV so many times before.

As with anyone's passing, I wanted to share my favorite moments that I remember of that person: It was an episode of "The Crocodile Hunter" that was filmed here in the U.S. Steve was searching for the elusive Timber Rattlers of the Eastern US. He had found one and was in the process of getting a closer look at it when he realized he was standing (straddling actually) over a whole nest of them. It was only time that I ever saw Steve cuss on one of his shows. Although they cut the audio portion of it - you can clearly see him mouth the word's 'oh shit'. I had taped the epsiode at one point and used to pause and rewind it and watch it over and over. My wife and I got a big kick out of it.

My 7 year old son actually was upset today when I told him the news of Steve's passing. He will be missed.
 

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Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 09-04-2006, 01:00 PM:
 
He was one CRAZY individual!!!

Not too long ago he brought this HUGE King Cobra onto the set of Jay Leno's "Tonight Show". That snake was HUGE...brought on the stage in a wooden crate. Irwin and his crew had a very difficult time controlling this monster...that was REALLY pissed-off and aggressive! Leno was standing on his desk and really keeping his distance and everyone in the front audience rows were a little uncomfortable.

Kutler
 

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Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 09-04-2006, 02:00 PM:
 
Dennis, I liked that episode, too, when the ol' Croc' Hunter was in our land. He alluded to the fact that he wasn't as familiar with the behavior of the various species of snakes in the US as the ones back home, so he was really being careful. That's why stumbling upon that nest like he did made him especially nervous.

We should only life life with half as much passion and zest as Steve Irwin did. His was an incredible personality.

Rest easy, mate.
 

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 09-04-2006, 04:21 PM:
 
I've gotta' say it was bound to happen. I just thought it would be a croc or a "fierce snake" that would get him.

Everybody has their destinly. I can't help but to think that this is the way Ol' Steve was SUPPSOED to go.

We should all go out and get ourselves an "Oil Can" of Fosters and sing "Tie Me Kangaroo Down" and raise a glass to Steve's memory.

(Yes, I know Foster's can't hold a candle to V.B. but, in America, "Foster's is Australian for Beeah, Mate!" )
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 09-04-2006, 04:46 PM:
 
I thought all his shows were great and very entertaining to say the least. Crikey... He will be missed by many millions!
 

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Posted by Chad Souder (Member # 343) on 09-04-2006, 05:15 PM:
 
Why is this sad or surprising? I liked his show, too, but I didn't know the guy personally. If any of you did know him personally, then I am sorry for your loss. It is kind of disappointing that his show won't be on anymore to entertain me, but then the new season of House starts soon. What I do know is that this was a man that made millions of dollars by keeping animals in captivity and intruding on their turf. I am not by any means an animal rights advocate, but I don't see the shock in a guy being killed by a wild animal with the home field advantage. If he got killed by a caterpillar or the ray would have stabbed him while he was sitting in his living room, that would be shocking.

Animals are extremely unpredictable and the human is physically inferior to many of them. I'm sure we all know of a dog that was sweet and gentle it's whole life and one day it just up and bit someone. To observe is one thing, but in order to make the kind of money Steve Irwin was making, you have to get right in there and be crazy. That's what he chose to do and he ultimately got bested. It's about as surprising as Dale Earnhardt getting killed in a crash during a race or as sad and what happened to Christopher Reeve. The surprise for me comes from living as long as he did.
 

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Posted by Pravin Ratnam (Member # 1417) on 09-04-2006, 05:44 PM:
 
According to many accounts, he gave generously for the cause of conservation. The guy has something that is to be admired - a great positive spirit. He lived life to the fullest. I wasnt a regular viewer of his show, but whenever his show would be on Discovery HD, i couldt peel my eyes away. It wasn't just his stunts. BUt this energy. It was beautiful. He was no gimmick.

I am pissed there is very little coverage except for NBC actually leading off their news and interviewing Jack Hanna. CNN and FOX - not much. YOu would think FOX News would have enough resources in Murdoch's Australian operations to come up with a good feature. A lot less celebs like "K-Fed" seem to get more coverage for more trivial crap. Couldnt these cable news networks spend a few minutes less on some alleged killer of Jon Benet Ramsay(like what he drank or break into a live telecast of his plane lading) and few minutes more on this news?
 

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Posted by Mike Heenan (Member # 392) on 09-04-2006, 06:14 PM:
 
I dont think it's surprising, but it's sad as he was in the prime of his life and got killed "young", at least that's the way I look at it. I never met him and can't recall wathcing many of his shows but he was entertaining when I saw him. But I'm not going to shed a tear over it, nor did I when Earnhardt cut off the other driver and got killed. But Chad, will you shed a tear when Denis Leary dies of cancer?
 

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Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 09-04-2006, 06:30 PM:
 

quote: Chad Souder

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It is kind of disappointing that his show won't be on anymore to entertain me, but then the new season of House starts soon.

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quote: Chad Souder

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but I don't see the shock in a guy being killed by a wild animal with the home field advantage.

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quote: Chad Souder

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What I do know is that this was a man that made millions of dollars by keeping animals in captivity and intruding on their turf.

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quote: Chad Souder

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It is kind of disappointing that his show won't be on anymore to entertain me, but then the new season of House starts soon.

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quote: Pravin Ratnam

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I am pissed there is very little coverage except for NBC actually leading off their news and interviewing Jack Hanna. CNN and FOX - not much. YOu would think FOX News would have enough resources in Murdoch's Australian operations to come up with a good feature.

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quote: Chris Hipp

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Obviously you don't understand that zoos and aquariums do more than just put on shows for an audience. That is merely a way to get funding. The primary purpose of the any good zoo is captive breeding programs and providing a home for animals that cannot defend themselves, which were often shown on television.

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quote: Mike Heenan

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But Chad, will you shed a tear when Denis Leary dies of cancer?

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quote: Frank Dubrois

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Thats pretty selfish.

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quote: Chris Hipp

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Obviously you don't understand that zoos and aquariums do more than just put on shows for an audience.

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quote: Chris Hipp

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What have YOU done with YOUR life that you make you feel you have the right to bash someone like Steve Irwin?

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quote: Chad Souder

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I'm sorry if I made it seem like I was bashing him

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quote: Chad Souder

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Why is this sad

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quote: Chad Souder

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It is kind of disappointing that his show won't be on anymore to entertain me

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quote: Chad Souder

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I don't see the shock in a guy being killed by a wild animal

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quote: Chad Souder

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I pay almost $100 per month for my cable so that I can be entertained.

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quote: Chad Souder

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I was trying to bash those that responded to his death with sadness or surprise

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quote: Chad Souder

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Sounds like this behavior isn't rare at all, just that Irwin might not have done his homework.

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As far as that last stupid quote...if you read more than FOX NEWS' version, you'd find out that his accident was a freak accident. If the Stingray hit him just about anywhere else, it would have been a wound, not a fatal accident. He was swimming OVER the Stingray, the Stingray possibly felt threatened by Irwin on the top and a cameraman in the vicinity, so the animal lashed out defensively. Irwin wasnt doing ANYTHING to provoke him.

Chad, your complete idiot apparently trying to get some attention.

BTW, you pay too much for cable fool.
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 09-04-2006, 11:43 PM:
 
Frank: STOP the personal attacks on other members that disagree with you and act like you have a brain. Go J/O to relieve your pent-up tension and self-hating feelings you feel you must take out on others to compensate for YOUR "shortcomings"!

Making an ass of yourself here, like in many of your other posts, you are once again sounding like a ***JERK***.

This thread is an interesting debate about a media whore or god... depending on one's personal view. Lets discuss it rationally without the lame negative personal slams like YOU present.
 

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Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 09-04-2006, 11:54 PM:
 
Thats your opinion. The only person that sounds like a jerk here is him. If you dont like me, thats your business. But I certainly have the right to reply about this idiot. Thats why this is called a FORUM.
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 09-04-2006, 11:56 PM:
 
It's not that I don't like you... I just think YOU should debate the issues NOT the person that posted.
 

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Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 09-05-2006, 12:00 AM:
 
It seems that Chad made himself the topic with his calis replies. You don't have to love or hate Irwin, but he died in an unfortunate accident, no one needs to piss on his memory.
 

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Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 09-05-2006, 12:02 AM:
 
Chad, I am sure his pocket book wasn't hurting at all, but I also don't think that anyone should be obligated to give anything back that they rightfully earned. However, Steve decided to do so and I can respect him for that. I'm sure he had to pay his dues as many other millionaires have.

I don't think he was a "media whore." Sure he loved the camera, but he was doing this stuff long before any TV deal came along.

I am sure thousand and thousands of other people died today from whatever cause, but we have never heard of them and didn't know them. Sure, you can say it is silly to feel for someone you don't know, but just look at this site. Most people here don't know each other any better than anyone knows anyone on TV. We are all a bunch of pictures next to some words. That doesn't mean that people don't feel for one another when they lose a family member, pet or whatever other tragedy happens in their lives. I am not going to cry over Irwin's death, but it is sad and I hate to see him get trashed online.
 

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 09-05-2006, 12:23 AM:
 

quote: Frank Dubrois

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He was swimming OVER the Stingray, the Stingray possibly felt threatened by Irwin on the top and a cameraman in the vicinity, so the animal lashed out defensively. Irwin wasnt doing ANYTHING to provoke him.

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I was thinking about that.

Stingrays hunt by detecting electric fields in the water around them. Every living animal gives off minute amounts of electricity as it moves. The rays can detect that and use it to home in on prey.

The way I heard, they also use it to find a mate and to detect predators and threats.

Now, here's a big 7 foot ray lying on the bottom with it's "geiger counters" clicking away when two large "things" swim over top of it. One's by himself and the other has this big, metal box that's giving off all sorts of confusing electrical signals and making all kinds of weird noises.

If you were that ray, wouldn't YOU lash out, too?

I can just imagine all the stray electric signals in the water from the video camera and other equipment f***ing up that ray's "radar".

If there is any truth to this hypothesis, there's no WONDER Steve got nailed!

But, then again, we don't know a whole lot about rays... Who'da thunk?
 

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Posted by Paul Cassidy (Member # 951) on 09-05-2006, 12:40 AM:
 
Latest TXT to circulate "Steve should have known better than to swim without Sunscreen , to protect from deadly Rays"
 

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Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 09-05-2006, 01:20 AM:
 

quote: Randy Stankey

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Now, here's a big 7 foot ray lying on the bottom with it's "geiger counters" clicking away when two large "things" swim over top of it. One's by himself and the other has this big, metal box that's giving off all sorts of confusing electrical signals and making all kinds of weird noises.

If you were that ray, wouldn't YOU lash out, too?

I can just imagine all the stray electric signals in the water from the video camera and other equipment f***ing up that ray's "radar".

If there is any truth to this hypothesis, there's no WONDER Steve got nailed!

But, then again, we don't know a whole lot about rays... Who'da thunk?

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quote: Frank Dubrois

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if you read more than FOX NEWS' version

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quote: Chad Souder

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I was trying to bash those that responded to his death with sadness or surprise.

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quote: Michael Schaffer

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How many people died today of hunger, wars, and crime?

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Well said. Too many, but they aren't famous enough to start threads on forums, or see on the news every hour on the hour.
 

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Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 09-05-2006, 09:25 AM:
 
I was really shocked by this as well. Of all the stupid ways for the Croc Hunter to die... a freaking STINGRAY?? Ugh. Kind of like Chuck Yeager dying in a bicycle wreck.

I was hoping to meet this chap one day. Guess I'll never get the chance. I learned a lot about different animals from him and his TV shows and movie. I even learned a little bit about sting rays in his death.

How very sad. RIP.
 

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Posted by Dave Williams (Member # 299) on 09-05-2006, 09:50 AM:
 

quote: Richard Hamilton

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Why do people start threads about famous people dying? This is news that everyone already knows. The only reason I would post a death on this forum is if it was a death of a colleague and I wanted to inform some people that may have know them.

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quote:

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quote: Michael SchafferHow many people died today of hunger, wars, and crime?

Well said. Too many, but they aren't famous enough to start threads on forums, or see on the news every hour on the hour.

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quote: Richard Hamilton

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Chad, my thoughts exactly. These people obviously knew him, they are referring to him as "Steve"

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quote:

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If there is any truth to this hypothesis, there's no WONDER Steve got nailed!

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You make a very interesting point about the electricity - I didn't even think of that. There are probably many water-based animals that would carry this concern. Sure, the fact that he got stabbed in the heart and died is a fluke, but the idea of a man doing what he was doing being stabbed at all is completely plausible and perhaps even probable. Just think, if this stab wound had been a few inches away, it would have been yet another comical injury sustained that wacky ol' Crocodile Hunter. Add it to all the snake bites, tail whips and other funny boo-boos he got over the years. Since it killed him, it becomes sad and tragic?

FYI, Dave, Fox News also has a website, where you can read the news if you choose, from which I pulled the quote earlier, hence Frank's comment about reading their version. And no, it doesn't upset me that you spelled my name wrong.
 

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Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 09-05-2006, 11:33 AM:
 
Let's see since it was brought up:

Terri Irwin, who happens to be Steve Irwin's wife (now widow) is from Eugene, Oregon. When I worked for Regal Cinemas, I travelled to that very town to help with the acquistion of Act III Theatres (the Cinemaworld 8). While there I happened to eat a wonderful restaurant owned by a couple named Mr. and Mrs. Baines. They happen to be Terri's parents. Not only were they nice people, but the food at thier restaurant was awesome (and their employees were extremely helpful and courteous). While I have never met Mr. Steve Irwin. I have actually met people who know him very well.
 

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Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 09-05-2006, 04:04 PM:
 
Being that Steve's (may I call him that?) wife is from Eugene, this story has made the front page of the local paper here two days in a row. I suspect it would have anyway even if she weren't from Eugene.

Why does the death of a Steve Irwin resonate with people? Maybe it's because he lived larger-than-life and died doing what he loved. Most of us have a mundane job and won't accomplish anything of any real substance in our lives. Steve Irwin did.

As for "attention whores", is Jerry Lewis an attention whore for doing the Labor Day telethon every year for several decades now? I mean, if people have to be reminded of the horror of muscular dystrophy to shame them into donating money to help the victims, that's very sad. Isn't it?

Dennis: Do you remember the name of the restaurant? (Cinema World 8 is being shut down later this year too. )
 

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Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 09-05-2006, 05:39 PM:
 

quote: David Stambaugh

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As for "attention whores", is Jerry Lewis an attention whore for doing the Labor Day telethon every year for several decades now? I mean, if people have to be reminded of the horror of muscular dystrophy to shame them into donating money to help the victims, that's very sad. Isn't it?

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quote: Mark J. Marshall

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Of all the stupid ways for the Croc Hunter to die... a freaking STINGRAY?? Ugh. Kind of like Chuck Yeager dying in a bicycle wreck.

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YES!! EXACTLY!!
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 09-05-2006, 09:51 PM:
 
Thank GOD his BABY is now SAFE! For awhile, I thought he was advocating feeding babies to alligators instead of chickens...




($10 sez that fatal stingray barb will soon be on eBay!)
 

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Posted by Jeremy Fuentes (Member # 2135) on 09-05-2006, 10:11 PM:
 
Steve was my uncle, I hope you all feel better about yourselves by acting too tough to care about someone dying, just because you didnt know him personally. Ooh..look at me, I'm tough on a forum! I wanna be entertained! I dont care by who, if they die, I'll just change the channel!! I need attention, and this should help me get it! Obviously he wasnt my uncle, but seeing as how this is a forum used and read worldwide, what makes you think that someone possibly related to him will never read this, and take those comments to heart? They have theaters and theater employees in australia right? You people entertain me though, dont go dying on me now.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 09-05-2006, 10:27 PM:
 
Been a while since I've been reading this thread, so bear with me as I catch up.

quote: David Stambaugh

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As for "attention whores", is Jerry Lewis an attention whore for doing the Labor Day telethon every year for several decades now? I mean, if people have to be reminded of the horror of muscular dystrophy to shame them into donating money to help the victims, that's very sad. Isn't it?

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Actually, this point brings up a more simple nagging issue:

If anyone has a problem with "attention whores" then what the hell are they doing frequenting a web site that deals with movies, which by nature are cast with lots and lots and lots of damned attention whores (actors)??????

quote: Chad Souder

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I was trying to bash those that responded to his death with sadness or surprise.

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quote: Chad Souder

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That's funny, but no. I don't cry when people I don't know die.

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quote: Chad Souder

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I pay almost $100 per month for my cable so that I can be entertained. I could give a crap about the personal lives of the people doing the entertaining any more than I expect them to care about my personal life as a viewer.

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quote: Bobby Henderson

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Actually, this point brings up a more simple nagging issue:

If anyone has a problem with "attention whores" then what the hell are they doing frequenting a web site that deals with movies, which by nature are cast with lots and lots and lots of damned attention whores (actors)??????

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quote:

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Ooh..look at me, I'm tough on a forum! I wanna be entertained! I dont care by who, if they die, I'll just change the channel!!

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quote: Mark J. Marshall

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Ugh. Kind of like Chuck Yeager dying in a bicycle wreck.

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quote: Frank Dubrois

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mom always says: If you can't say anything nice about someone, then don't say anything at all.

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quote: Frank Dubrois

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Chad, your complete idiot apparently trying to get some attention.

BTW, you pay too much for cable fool.

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 09-06-2006, 05:49 PM:
 
Mike: DAMN! I was going to post the same thing!

(Missed it by "this" much!) HA!
 

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Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 09-06-2006, 05:56 PM:
 
For the record I pay $20 a month for Directv.
 

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Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 09-06-2006, 06:14 PM:
 
$20 a month for DirecTV? Hook a brutha up!


 

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Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 09-06-2006, 06:28 PM:
 
I don't have a hook up. What I do is not illegal but I doubt Directv would be too happy about it. I pay for service and Tivo service.
 

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Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 09-06-2006, 07:00 PM:
 

quote:

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Mike: DAMN! I was going to post the same thing!

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Maybe that's because you two are always looking to say something mean about someone.

Chad didnt die, he was just saying things that I didn't agree with, and I spoke up. Since Steve Irwin can't say anything about it, I figured I would. I think mom said something about that too...
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 09-06-2006, 07:12 PM:
 

quote: Frank Dubrois

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Maybe that's because you two are always looking to say something mean about someone.

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My, my, MY...Ya know Frank, You ***REALLY*** should READ ***YOUR*** posts to see what a hypocrite and (dare I say it?) ASSHOLE you appear to be!

Oh BTW, you really ***NEED*** to get your head out of your ASS as well. Of course, that's just my 2-cents that my mom told me to post.
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 09-06-2006, 07:23 PM:
 
Only on Film-Tech could a thread start about a celebrity dying, then immediately degenerate into an argument about whether it was "too bad" that he died or if he simply was "asking for it," with a side plot about why people should or shouldn't get "sad" about a celebrity cashing in, followed by a gripe-fest about freedom of speech, leading into a discussion about a shady "not illegal" cable hookup, and finally into a name-calling tirade, followed by me, who is just trying to understand why you guys don't stop crapping all over this thread and take all this dopey arguing off the board and let the Steve Irwin fans grieve in peace.
 

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Posted by Mike Heenan (Member # 392) on 09-06-2006, 07:33 PM:
 


Back in my day we used to settle disagreements with large wooden clubs. But then I was frozen during winter, and later thawed out by some of your scientists. Your modern arguments on this contraption called the internet frightens me.

Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer

(RIP Phil Hartman)
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 09-06-2006, 07:41 PM:
 
Well Mike B, ALL here are NOT necessarily fans of Steve Irwin. Me personally, I'm indifferent to him... I'm pragmatic...shit happens.

No matter what anyone sez about me in this life, when it's MY time to croak, I just hope I'll RIP... Rot In Peace.

When personal attacks appear here, it's most likely cuz SOME members want to FORCE ***THEIR*** views on others, shit happens again.

There is NO rule here (OR in life) that we ***ALL*** must fall into what someone dictates to us in their personal feelings or beliefs.

Hopefully those here on their "high horse" will sometime "get it"!

(But I really doubt it as passion usually rules over the common sense)
 

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Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 09-06-2006, 08:05 PM:
 

quote: Phil Hill

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My, my, MY...Ya know Frank, You ***REALLY*** should READ ***YOUR*** posts to see what a hypocrite and (dare I say it?) ASSHOLE you appear to be!

Oh BTW, you really ***NEED*** to get your head out of your ASS as well.

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quote:

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RULE #1 Personal attacks These forums are moderated in the respect solely toward personal attacks. Everyone is welcome to participate in any capacity until the point comes at which other members are being singled out and directly insulted. This does not mean you cannot post a negative report on a product, service or customer support. All this refers to is the tone of the post if made toward a specific member of the forums. Disagreements are a daily occurence on the forums and will not be moderated, but personally attacking another member will not be tolerated. Please note "attacking" another member includes making discriminatory comments based upon skin color and/or sexual preference. Discriminatory comments are moderated at the exclusive decision of the Admin and Moderators, so make sure your post reads properly. If you are unsure if your post will "read" poorly toward another, please consider using smileys to assist in expressing the tone of your post or re-word it before posting, or refrain from posting it completely.
The bottom line is to please be polite, mature and professional towards the other members or you will be removed from the forums, regardless of your knowledge or stature in the industry.

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I can call myself an asshole here (not that I am mind you although Phil may say otherwise now ), but nobody else here is supposed to be able to call me an asshole. So before this thread is closed (undoubtedly with the violator(s) going unpunished), I'd like to know how I can get a special exemption from the FAQ like Phil seems to have?
 

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Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 09-06-2006, 08:07 PM:
 
Steve Irwin - R.I.P.

Life goes on. I went through the intial shock of the news on Monday. I was saddened by his death - he knew very well the risks involved with his job. His family knew those risks as well. So now we go on. Can we lock this damn thread now?
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 09-06-2006, 08:12 PM:
 
Well Holy Divine David, please re-read my post and get off YOUR holy-ass high horse! I said "appears"...

Take your whining somewhere else...
 

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Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 09-06-2006, 08:15 PM:
 
So I can say "Phil Hill ****APPEARS**** to be an asshole" and it's ok? Neat-o!

RIP Steve Irwin.
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 09-06-2006, 08:17 PM:
 
That's fine... it only reflects on YOUR mentality...

Ya know David I used to repect you as someone that was rational and smart... I guess I was wrong...

(Replying in kind)

Dennis: I don't think this thread should be closed...hiding one's head in the sand about different opinions is not a good thing. Hopefully we ALL can take the personal feelings out of the discussion.
 

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Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 09-06-2006, 08:28 PM:
 
Phil, I hereby waive my right to protection from the FAQ (only in this thread though ). You are free to call me an asshole if it pleases you. In fact you might want to go for the full meal deal and call me a STUPID FUCKING IRRATIONAL DUMBASS ASSHOLE while you have the chance.
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 09-06-2006, 08:32 PM:
 
Gosh David, I never said ANY of that! You must have missed your Doctor's appoinment.

I sincerely hope you get your needed help.

I have NO clue as to what set you off, but, PLEASE get some help!

Oh and BTW: On your way down off your high-horse...read the FAQ that YOU violated...
 

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Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 09-06-2006, 08:39 PM:
 
You just did it again! Oh the cleverness of you!
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 09-06-2006, 08:41 PM:
 
What's with you David? Get off the drugs and come down to earth...

I did NOTHING to you or said ANYTHING about you to start this piss fest!

Bottom line: fuck off!

Oh Wait! I get it! YOU want this thread closed cuz some here wont kiss Steve-baby's ass! By yapping at me and my posts...etc, you're hoping that this thread will be closed! HA! I have no problem with that!
 

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Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 09-06-2006, 08:48 PM:
 
May I ask you the obvious: What did Frank say to YOU that prompted YOU to accuse HIM of APPEARING to be an ASSHOLE? (SHOUTING is FUN!)

That this thread will be closed was a foregone conclusion after your earlier comments. Mine are just the icing on the cake. What I REALLY want to see is if BOTH of us get some unscheduled time away from the forum, or if it will just be ME since I have no STANDING in the INDUSTRY like you. None at all.
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 09-06-2006, 08:57 PM:
 
Perhaps in your fogged mind you should re-read ALL the posts in this thread...
Read and it WILL become clear...even to some dumbass.

BTW: WTF ***IS*** YOUR problem? It sorta sounds like you are attacking me cuz of your perception of my "standing" in the industry. I have NO "standing" in "the industry". Just like you, I'm just a lowly FT member...I'm nothing "special". I certainly get my licks from Brad and other moderators AND members publicly and in private emails. But, I'm a big boy and can take it as much as I give it out. And God knows, I get it big-time!

David, get a LIFE and STOP feeling sorry for yourself!

I did NOTHING to deserve your horseshit attacks! Again: GO fuck off!
 

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Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 09-06-2006, 09:15 PM:
 

quote: Phil Hill

---

BTW: WTF ***IS*** YOUR problem?

---

quote: Phil Hill

---

I just hope I'll RIP... Rot In Peace.

---

At least you said SOMETHING I agree with. Here's to YOU rotting in peace . You just seem like a nasty miserable person who never has anything good to say to OR about anyone. I'm done posting in this thread. Nothing good is coming from it anymore.
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 09-06-2006, 09:19 PM:
 

quote: Frank Dubrois

---

You just seem like a nasty miserable person who never has anything good to say to OR about anyone

---

Well said Frank... you certainly have a way with words:

Perhaps YOU should look at your own posts...
 

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Posted by Jason Black (Member # 684) on 09-06-2006, 09:29 PM:
 
Good grief...

I am sad and dismayed that some of you have denegrated this thread to the point of such off topic rants about one another.


A man died here.. regardless of what you think and all some want to do is give grief about one another, to one another.

Take it PM guys... really... most everyone else here doesn't need this type behavior...
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 09-06-2006, 09:47 PM:
 

quote: Michael Schaffer

---

You put that very well. That is exactly what you are doing every day. Every single day you see a lot people die or hear about them dying on TV, from accidents, plane crashes, being swept away by tsunamis and floods, buried by erupting volcanoes, being blown up by suicide bombers, stepping on landmines, being killed in combat or by just happening to be in the way of combat etcetcetc.

---

Most people don't weep. But there's a difference. Most people also don't take the occaision of a person's death as an opportunity to talk about how horrible or stupid that dead person was -especially on a public forum. That's the part I find at least a tad bit in bad taste.

I'll certainly make exceptions to that attitude, when the victim clearly deserves his fate. For instance, if Osama Bin Laden or "Bucky" in New York gets capped I may crack a smile or more than that.

To offer another example, lots of people on this forum knew Paul Thomspon. How would many of those folks feel if some newbie starting posting flames about him in this forum or another film-related forum elsewhere, and rationalizing the behavior because he didn't know Paul at all? I'd feel like clobbering the troll.

There's a wierd crackpot religious group that exhibits an extreme example of that behavior. They show up to military funerals for people who died fighting in Iraq, heckling the funeral with claims the soliders deserved to die because our country has some tolerance for certain groups of people. Those hecklers are really taking their chances of getting severely beaten or worse each time they pull those stunts.
 

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Posted by Anslem Rayburn (Member # 1267) on 09-06-2006, 10:12 PM:
 
I frequent a computer forum on another site, and they have a thread mourning the loss of Steve Irwin. What I find interesting is that the site is visited by a ton of kids (ages 14 to 18), and they have all been respectful of people that feel a sadness for his passing. When a bunch of children can show more respect for each other than a group of grown men...

Even if you didn't care for Irwin, I am shocked at the lack of respect for fellow forum members when some can't keep from posting negative things about the others' grief. Nobody asked anyone to post their grief, or even feel anything over his death. All we expect from each other is a little respect, but I guess that's too much to expect.
 

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Posted by Cameron Glendinning (Member # 3516) on 09-06-2006, 10:17 PM:
 

quote: Michael Schaffer

---

You put that very well. That is exactly what you are doing every day. Every single day you see a lot people die or hear about them dying on TV, from accidents, plane crashes, being swept away by tsunamis and floods, buried by erupting volcanoes, being blown up by suicide bombers, stepping on landmines, being killed in combat or by just happening to be in the way of combat etcetcetc.

---

Actually I dont feel that that is 100% true, although it is obviously mostly true. Most western media tend not to show raw footage of disasters that happen to white people! Asians, Mexicans ect, are all A/ok but Americans? The networks seem to think its too upsetting to show that sort of footage raw as they did with the asian tasami ect / it tends to be edited tastfully ever since 9/11.

Death is such a natural part of life!

As we can all see this thread has taken on the appeal of a car crash, you know how you just can't not look!! Personally I find the bickering very human.I value the opinions of ALL the people in this tread. I hope we can play nicely in the future.
Now isn't everyone is entitled to their own point of view. No matter how crazy and misguided and poorly infomed all of you are!!!!!!!
 

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Posted by Mike Heenan (Member # 392) on 09-06-2006, 10:29 PM:
 
I always like the folks who post "I dont care about a celebrity's death" or "I dont care what K-Fed sang at the MTV Awards last night"... because obviously they cared enough to inform us they dont care.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 09-06-2006, 10:38 PM:
 

quote: Anslem Rayburn

---

When a bunch of children can show more respect for each other than a group of grown men...

---

Definately the best post in this thread

Funny how people that didn't like him and probably didn't even watch his show can criticize him......

Mark
 

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Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 09-07-2006, 12:13 AM:
 

quote: Cameron Glendinning

---

Actually I dont feel that that is 100% true, although it is obviously mostly true. Most western media tend not to show raw footage of disasters that happen to white people! Asians, Mexicans ect, are all A/ok but Americans? The networks seem to think its too upsetting to show that sort of footage raw as they did with the asian tasami ect / it tends to be edited tastfully ever since 9/11.

---

quote: Anslem Rayburn

---

I frequent a computer forum on another site, and they have a thread mourning the loss of Steve Irwin.

---

I think pretty much every forum has a thread about the death of Steve Irwin. I'm fairly sure it's required by law.
 

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Posted by Pravin Ratnam (Member # 1417) on 09-07-2006, 12:46 AM:
 
THis is why some of us care for Irwin. Like I said before, even though I didnt watch him on a regular basis, I was stricken by how he lived more of a life in his 44 years than most of us will live in our entire lifetimes. Just watch his behind the scenes shows if you ever care to take the time. Everyone who has interacted with him has said that he is the same off tv as he is on tv. As far as saying why we would care to see him endanger his life if we wouldn't do with our family, here is a simple answer. If I got a daredevil cousin and he took precautions(which Irwin did in a lot of cases, as reckless as it may have looked on camera), and that's what makes him happy, I am not going to feel bad for him to lead such a life. Risk is relative. Some of my relatives thought the idea of me going skydiving was nuts. And I started off with a static line which is pretty low risk.

Also comparing his accomplishments with other more serious sounding people who accomplished a lot in life and asking if we would feel the same is not a valid comparison. We normally don't get a chance to get to know those serious scientists or astronauts. Irwin had a knack of communicating his zeal for his hobby and family through the camera in a very authentic manner. He broke through that wall. He made it seem like the interaction was both ways and not passive.

Most importantly, families have watched him and his family go on these adventures and he was instrumental in some family events in many people's homes. He was inspiring people not necessarily to do what he did but pick their own interests and excel at that. Also Irwin's death broke people's expectations that as they and their families aged, they would get to see Irwin and his family grow older and pass the tradition onto a new generation.

At least Greer is not part of this film tech community to let her distasteful opinions of Irwin's death be known.
 

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Posted by Phil Blake (Member # 2012) on 09-07-2006, 01:03 AM:
 
Steve's way


 

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Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 09-07-2006, 03:46 AM:
 
Germaine Greer (better known as an extremist feminist loon) has just made what appears to be an attempt to renounce her Australian citizenship:

quote: CNN Website

---

SYDNEY, Australia (CNN) -- Comments by academic Germaine Greer on the death of wildlife TV star Steve Irwin have triggered a storm of anger with the Australian author criticized for being "insensitive" and "elitist".

Greer, best known for her feminist book "The Female Eunuch", said Wednesday Irwin was an "embarrassment" and a "self-deluded animal torturer".

Irwin, who gained international fame for his "Crocodile Hunter" TV series, was killed Monday by a stingray barb while filming a wildlife documentary.

Speaking on Australian TV Channel Nine's "A Current Affair" news program Wednesday, Greer described those who mourned Irwin's passing as "idiots" and said possibly millions of Australians were embarrassed by him.

Greer said Irwin had not treated animals with the respect they deserved.

"He would tell you how dangerous they were and he would proceed to intrude on their space and humiliate (them) really -- treat them with massive insensitivity," she said. "It's no surprise he came to grief."

Greer's views, first aired in Britain's Guardian newspaper on Tuesday, have drawn a sharp response in Australia from politicians and commentators.

Queensland state leader Peter Beattie told Greer to "back off" and labeled her comments "stupid" and "insensitive."

"Germaine Greer is just wrong and I just can't imagine anyone being more insensitive and, frankly, stupid," he said Thursday.

"This argument is just extreme radical rubbish from Germaine Greer and it couldn't come at a more insensitive time.

"Any suggestion that he (Irwin) mistreated animals is just rubbish ... he educated a generation."

Author John Birmingham, writing in The Australian newspaper Thursday, called Greer's comments "a poisonous discharge of bile" which encapsulated the views of a "whole class of Australian sophisticates" who felt uncomfortable with Irwin's global celebrity.

Greer is a frequent critic of personalities like British soccer star David Beckham and social trends like reality television, although she herself appeared briefly in Britain's Celebrity Big Brother series.

In other news, Irwin's father said his son's funeral would be held privately within seven days, The Associated Press reports.

He confirmed that the family had declined a state funeral for the television star.

In a short statement to media at the family's Australia Zoo reptile park, Bob Irwin said his son's funeral would be private at an undisclosed location, and that a public memorial service would be held within two weeks.

"He wants to be remembered as an ordinary bloke," Irwin said earlier.

Bob Irwin told reporters Wednesday his son and he were extremely close.

"Steve and I weren't like father and son, we never were," Irwin said.

"We were good mates. I'll remember Steve as my best mate ever," he said.

Meanwhile, colleagues of Irwin said they wanted video footage destroyed of the star showing him pulling a deadly stingray barb from his chest just before he died on Monday.

The host of Animal Planet's "Crocodile Hunter" was filming scenes for a show intended for children when he was attacked.

Irwin's manager and close friend John Stainton told CNN's Larry King he would not want the tape released. "It should be destroyed," he said Tuesday.

The tape is in police custody, according to Stainton.

Stainton told CNN he believed Irwin was dead by the time he was brought from the water, despite efforts by those on his boat to keep him alive while racing to an island to meet a medical helicopter.

Stingray discussions

Irwin, the Australian naturalist and wildlife crusader who won fame for his TV show "The Crocodile Hunter," had been working on a documentary -- ironically, on the ocean's deadliest animals when the accident occurred.

Bad weather had made it impossible to proceed with a planned taping for the Animal Planet channel, so Irwin chose Monday to shoot "a couple of soft stories for a new TV show we're doing," Stainton told CNN when the news broke.

"He and the underwater cameraman went out to do some pieces on the reef and coral and stuff good for the kids' show and, unfortunately, he came out over the top of a stingray that was buried in the sand and the barb went up and hit him in the chest," Stainton said Monday.

"He was as good on the water as he was on land," Stainton recalled Tuesday. "He was comfortable anywhere there was wildlife. He'd been diving 10, 15 years ... I never thought he'd take a hit from a stingray. He was very used to them."

Only the day before, he, Irwin and a doctor on board had discussed stingrays and the effects of their barbs, Stainton said. Stingrays, however, were not to be included in the "dangerous animals" documentary. (Watch how a stingray strikes -- 2:35 )

Stainton said he had to watch the tape in order to verify what was on it. "It was a hard experience," he said.

Irwin's body was brought from Cairns to his hometown of Beerwah in southeast Queensland on Tuesday. Stainton said he accompanied it on the six-hour flight. A date has not been set for the funeral, he said.

Irwin, who was director of the family's Australia Zoo in Queensland, is survived by his American-born wife, Terri, and their two children, Bindi Sue, 8, and Robert, 3. Asked how Terri Irwin was doing, Stainton said, "A lot worse than me."

When family members saw Irwin's casket, he said, "It was like a full stop ... you think it's a dream and it's not happening, but it is, and it has and it's done."

Out of respect for Irwin's family, Australia's quarantine service is withdrawing all TV advertising that features Irwin promoting the importance of Australian quarantine measures.

CNN's Grant Holloway and John Vause contributed to this report.

---

quote: Joe Redifer

---

I think pretty much every forum has a thread about the death of Steve Irwin. I'm fairly sure it's required by law.

---

I always appreciate your humor, and do in this case, as well. I only want to make the point (in case others missed it), that the other site is frequented by teens. They found it in their hearts to allow their fellow forum members to grieve openly without feeling the need to ridicule the deceased, or those mourning his death. I thought this board was frequented by people that respected each other, and hoped for a level of respect for fellow posters that would surpass that found on a board composed, primarily, of teens. I am more saddened by the lack of respect for fellow Film-Techers than I am by the attitude towards the passing of Steve Irwin. I thought we all were friends that cared about each others fortune, misery, and everything in between. I can accept that I have been proven wrong, but I am dismayed.

Some here have forever lost my respect (not that I expect them to care). Not as a professional, but as a person. And that, to me, is more important than their technical knowledge...
 

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Posted by Dave Williams (Member # 299) on 09-07-2006, 05:01 AM:
 

quote: Chad Souder

---

FYI, Dave, Fox News also has a website, where you can read the news if you choose, from which I pulled the quote earlier, hence Frank's comment about reading their version. And no, it doesn't upset me that you spelled my name wrong.

---

quote: Dave Williams

---

I suppose you can read the crawler at the bottom of the screen, or even go to the internet and read some stories on foxnews.com, but you "watch" Fox News, not read it.

---

Seems I mentioned the existance of FoxNews.com in the first place. I really appreciate you pointing that out, so that way I wouldn't like forget and stuff!

As for spelling your name wrong... if that is the worst of your problems, then man do you have a sweet life! All that time to watch cable and stay indoors must really make your hundred bucks really pay off!

CRIKEY!!!
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 09-07-2006, 05:39 AM:
 

quote: Michael Schaffer

---

If you think about it, it all really doesn't have anything to do with grief or respect for the dead. It's all a selective form of projected grief which has nothing to do with the person allegedly bemourned but all with the emotional needs of the mourner.

---

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

---

And on the next Dr. Mike Show he will discuss reserection of the dead with those that have experienced it first hand. Join us won't you......

---

Actually the next Dr Mike Show will be dedicated to discussing some interesting, but really hard to spell words with more than 5 letters, like "resurrection".

 

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Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 09-07-2006, 11:17 AM:
 
Like him or not, he was a small industry. How many will be out of work as a result of his death? The park will undoubtedly suffer long term without his personal appearances and promotion. Family probably not suffer financially but the emotional loss of such a dynamic individual will be great.
 

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Posted by Chad Souder (Member # 343) on 09-07-2006, 12:11 PM:
 

quote: Michael Schaffer

---

It's all a selective form of projected grief which has nothing to do with the person allegedly bemourned but all with the emotional needs of the mourner.

---

quote: Bobby Henderson

---

To offer another example, lots of people on this forum knew Paul Thomspon. How would many of those folks feel if some newbie starting posting flames about him in this forum

---

quote: Dave Williams

---

"criekey"

---

quote:

---

CRIKEY!!!

---

Good progress!!
 

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Posted by Pravin Ratnam (Member # 1417) on 09-07-2006, 03:23 PM:
 
This has nothing to do with Irwin being a celeb. Quite frankly, when I heard the name, I didn't even remember it as being his name. I think it's people just seeing him on tv or in person and connecting with him and his family. Don't underestimate the power of the footage of he and his family interacting to provide entertainment for the rest of us and double up as conservation advocates (A 2 for 1 deal). If people an feel bad about a movie with fictional characters which has a tragic ending, don't give me crap about how silly it is for people to actually feel really bad about what has happened to a real family many people have seen grown together and hoped to see them on more adventures in the future(make that a 3 for 1 deal).

When Pricess Di died, I could care less and found it amusing when I saw a lot of women crying for her. But I didn't go tell them how silly I thought they were to identify with a rich woman who married for the prestige thing and seemed to have a self pitying attitude. But I saw a lot more of Di more than I care to on TV than I did of Irwin. So I am pretty sure the celeb factor is not the driving factor here for a lot of people mourning for his loss. (well, maybe for some, as there are always going to be that small group of people who think of celebs as an extension of their own family). When Ben Roethlisberger had a major accident, and initial reports were pretty awful, I felt bad as I would for any human being , but I did not feel a deep sadness despite the fact that he was the QB of the Steelers, a team that I follow on a daily basis even in the offseason.

So give us a little credit.
 

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Posted by Chad Souder (Member # 343) on 09-07-2006, 05:48 PM:
 
I think maybe the core to the whole discussion is the fault you place on the victim. If you think that Irwin was not in any way at fault and that his death was an accident, then you are probably more inclined to feel for him. I tend to believe that he was at fault for putting himself, as he has many, many times in the past, in a position to suffer a fatal attack and I believe the outcome could have easily been avoidable. I actually like Pravin's Roethlisberger reference. He was another guy that chose to put himself in a dangerous situation only in his case he was openly breaking the law and he got lucky and didn't die.

I guess I just can't feel bad for people that I think are at fault when they get hurt or killed.
 

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Posted by Mark Ogden (Member # 43) on 09-07-2006, 06:43 PM:
 
Any man’s untimely death is a shame, and I feel bad for his wife and children who must now carry on without him. But at the risk of sounding cold-blooded, as to the man himself, I feel the same way about his passing as I would if it had been one of the guys from Jackass. Maybe, just maybe, he should have exercised a little more caution and/or common sense.

The whole thing puts me in mind of Timothy Treadwell, the subject of the documentary Grizzly Man. Here was a dude who befriended grizzly bears in Alaska. Walked around them, fed them, touched them, lived among them, defended them against human predators, and got the idea that because they allowed it that it meant they accepted him as some kind of friend. Yes, he was truly “at one” with the bears . . . right up to the day that they tore him and his girlfriend to shreds. It seems to me that he and Irwin are the same: guys who got the idea that their rapport with these creatures was so great that they were, for all intents and purposes, immortal around them. Ooops!
 

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Posted by Pravin Ratnam (Member # 1417) on 09-08-2006, 09:33 AM:
 
Chad, you got my Roehtlisberger reference wrong. I was talking about identifying with someone. In any case, sicne you brought it up, the analogy would be is if he got injured while playing football kind of like Utley.
 

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Posted by Chad Souder (Member # 343) on 09-08-2006, 04:00 PM:
 
More like if he got injured while playing football with Montecore without wearing pads or a helmet, but I didn't intend to turn this into a Ben Roethlisberger thread. My bad.
 

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Posted by Mike Heenan (Member # 392) on 09-08-2006, 05:41 PM:
 
Who's this Ben Rothburger guy?
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 09-09-2006, 01:13 AM:
 

quote: Chad Souder

---

We only know of Irwin what is edited for us on TV or reported in the news. Would anyone be willing to be a character witness for the guy based on that? I doubt it. If it makes you feel better to let others know just how sad you are and how many feelings you have and how much you care about everyone, then fine, but I for one am not willing to make that emotional investment on someone that behind closed doors could be doing things I vehemently disagree with.

---

quote: Pravin Ratnam

---

When Pricess Di died, I could care less and found it amusing when I saw a lot of women crying for her.

---

quote: Pravin Ratnam

---

But I didn't go tell them how silly I thought they were to identify with a rich woman who married for the prestige thing and seemed to have a self pitying attitude.

---

quote: Pravin Ratnam

---

So I am pretty sure the celeb factor is not the driving factor here for a lot of people mourning for his loss.

---

quote: Mark Ogden

---

The whole thing puts me in mind of Timothy Treadwell, the subject of the documentary Grizzly Man. Here was a dude who befriended grizzly bears in Alaska.

---

quote: Bobby Henderson

---

If Steve Irwin's death really doesn't matter to you at all, then why exactly are you even wasting your time posting anything at all about it?

---

quote: Anslem Rayburn

---

But this is not a government-sanctioned killing or the result of a war or the result of the policies of a cabinet/monarchy/dictatorship/et. al.

---

quote: Anslem Rayburn

---

We are allowed to discuss Mr. Irwin's death here. And for you to crap upon those that felt a connection to him is not appropriate. No matter your reasoning, it is disrespectful to other members of this board. I hope you understand.

---

quote: Anslem Rayburn

---

Does that mean I shouldn't be sad if one of you die when a Xenon lamp explodes and hurts one of you enough to kill you? After all, it was part of the job you chose to take.

---

If somebody who is supposedly informed about the risks clowned around with xenon lamps without proper protective eyewear and clothing and, say, uninsulated hot electrical lines or stuck his fingers into a running machine fully knowing the risks just to display how fearless he is and he would get hurt as a result of his actions, I wouldn't care at all. In fact, I would say, serves him right, and he may have given other people a bad example and caused them to get hurt, too, because they simply didn't know better than he actually did but chose to ignore.
 

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Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 09-09-2006, 11:08 AM:
 
Sometimes when I am driving I see a dead cat or dog on the side of the road and I feel bad for it for about five seconds until it is out of my sight. I didn't know the cat, it being dead has no affect on my life, but I still feel bad for it.

[ 09-09-2006, 01:30 PM: Message edited by: Chris Hipp ]
 

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Posted by Jeremy Fuentes (Member # 2135) on 09-09-2006, 01:15 PM:
 
Well, Chris, thats because you're not an ass like some people. I mean you are in some regards, but not in this case.

And so theres no confusion about who I'm referring to when I say ass, I mean Chad and Michael. To say that you dont care about someone dying, regardless of the circumstance, is giving me permission to not care about you or your family members or friends dying.(and publicly saying that I dont care) As much as you are trying to make it seem like you are too tough to care, that would bother you and you know its true. But not to worry, I would care. I'll even state it publicly. How silly of me, right? I mean I have no connection to them whatsoever. Silly human feelings.
 

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Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 09-09-2006, 02:13 PM:
 
Jeremy - you are apparently a good natured and well meaning, but not very intelligent fellow. Or not very mature. Or both. I explained this over and over, and you still don't get it. It is not about being tough or not tough or silly or not silly or pretending or not pretending to feel ot not to feel anything.

It is about honesty. If something happened to me or a family member or a friend or a friend's dog, you wouldn't give a shit just like you don't give a shit about all the many deaths that you see or hear about on the news every day. You just change the channel. There is nothing you can do to help them anyway.

If you say you do, then you are just lying. Maybe you feel bad for a brief moment, but that is no compassion, it is the pain of being reminded how fleeting life is and that the things you see on TV could happen to you and the people close to you, too. That is a purely egotistic feeling we all have sometimes, but it really isn't about the victims, it is about us. In reality, you don't care about all the poor victims of violence, poverty and natural disasters that you watch on TV every day at all. If you really did, you would try to do something to help them. Just like you would try to do something to help or comfort friends or family. But you don't. All that is outside your reach. And you have already forgotten after a few seconds whose death you just heard about, unless it is a somehow more well known name and face like a TV or movie celebrity. Then it stays with you a little longer. But do you really care? Is your life affected by that? No, not at all. But it makes you feel good to make some nice sounding comments. But it is really all about yourself and how good and righteous it makes you feel to pretend you care, not about the victims.

But you can do and say whatever you like. Once your emotional maturity level rises above that of a 12-year old, then you will maybe learn to just accept that other people don't feel the same way about some things as you do, and don't feel the same need for public protestations of fake compassion.

There was a great scene in Denis Leary's show "Rescue Me" (which, as you probably know, is about firefighters in NY and about the problems they have to cope with life in general and the aftermath of 9/11 in particular) in which he walks into a bar and tells the people they all pretend to care a lot about what happened on that day - sad faces all around, people looking compassionate - but then he says he bets that most of the people in the bar can name all finalists from "American Idol" but none of them can name just one firefighter who died on that day - long faces all around, people staring at the floor.
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 09-09-2006, 06:17 PM:
 
To say something from my own personal POV as a long-time SCUBA diver, diving instructor, and underwater film producer/cameraman for many years, (Umm, of course that was when I was 'much' younger and not so fat!) and having filmed MANY 35mm and 16mm underwater films in all sorts of waters from the Florida Keys, Bahamas', deep dark caves, and the murky waters of Michigan lakes
...AND NOT pre-judging Irwin for HIS "showmanship", I also feel bad when any (Western) person is killed by accident or deliberately. (sorry for the run-on sentence) I'm truly sorry not only for Irwin's immediate family, but also those who have (personally) known him.

Myself, having personally witnessed violent death 1st hand several times, and knowing the devastation it causes to those that knew the person, I can say it's NOT fun! That being said, death is part of life...ya can't die if you're NOT born. Hopefully we will ALL "go" painlessly at an old age.

But again, just because many FT posters felt they had a "connection" with Irwin's TV persona, for me, that does NOT warrant a feeling of him being my "best buddy" and I will cry my eyes out at his passing.

As I said before, I'm pragmatic and indifferent to his passing. I do feel compassion to those family members and friends he left behind, but that will pass since ***I*** personally don't know him.

For me, the scariest UW creatures are Barracuda, Morey Eels, and sea snakes. I really have no fear of sharks, skates, rays, groupers, etc and have dived with them many times knowing the "what's" about them.

Anyway, I also feel bad when a roadkill animal is hit/run over. I've seen dogs, cats, armadillos, etc dead on the road that make me feel bad. When I drive, I pray that I do not hit or kill any or see any suffering poor creatures that haven't been killed but just maimed and are suffering along the road.

But as Chris said, I don't dwell on it and let it rule my life especially since they are NOT personally known to me...like one's pet that one would weep over and feel bad about their passing "forever". I mean, *THEY* are our life-long, non-judgmental "friends".

The bigger (and sadder) thing in this thread is ***MANY*** of us appear to have forgotten the original premise of this thread and many, including myself, have turned this thread into a personal war of words and opinions rather than respecting the dead person for their positive contributions.

Again, I'm indifferent to Irwin, but... ummm "can't we all just get along?" ...and NOT make this thread about personalities but rather the man that passed? NO MATTER our individual opinions of him? Stop killing the members just cuz their opinion differ from one's own. JFC!

[ 09-09-2006, 07:24 PM: Message edited by: Phil Hill ]
 

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Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 09-09-2006, 08:51 PM:
 
News of the death of a Steve Irwin does not cause me to break down and cry rivers of tears, or even to shed a single tear (they would be crocodile tears if I did. ). I didn't know the guy so I don't have that level of "investment" in him. For all I know, off-camera he was a jerk. I'm not saying he was, I'm saying I don't know. I am of course sad for his wife and family, but they will endure.

But professionally, I admire(d) his work and his showmanship. He made a significant mark in chosen field. The passing of a Steve Irwin causes me to reflect on my own life and choices I've made career-wise. As I said earlier, nothing I'm doing will leave any legacy for people to remember. Oh yeah, I enjoy what I do and I'm reasonably good at it, but I'm just a cog in the proverbial wheel. Steve Irwin lived much larger and in some ways I envy him and others like him for their success and for leaving something behind that may be remembered.

And that's why the passing of a Steve Irwin elicits some sadness from me. And then I move along.
 

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Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 09-09-2006, 08:57 PM:
 

quote: Phil Hill

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I pray that I do not hit or kill any or see any suffering poor creatures that haven't been killed but just maimed and are suffering along the road.

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quote: Michael Schaffer

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It is about honesty. If something happened to me or a family member or a friend or a friend's dog, you wouldn't give a shit just like you don't give a shit about all the many deaths that you see or hear about on the news every day.

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Honestly, if you dont think that I would give a shit if something happened to you or your family or whatever, then maybe you're right. Maybe I'm not mature enough to care about that. Maybe my attitude here on F-T has caused me to come across as an incompassionate asshole who changes the channel when I see buildings falling down, or hurricane damaged cities, or soldiers dying on a daily basis. Maybe I dont do anything to help these people. Maybe I'm happy when I see things like that. Maybe I see people asking for donations to help Katrina victims, and I say, "no thanks. I dont care." Maybe I saw the blood drives after 9/11 and said, "damn, I wish I cared enough to give my blood, but, its my blood, so get away from me." Maybe when my friends brother died in Iraq recently, I declined to try and make her feel better or cheer her up a few days later. Maybe I told her, "I didnt know him personally so why should I care?" "Death is part of life, deal with it" Maybe I did all this. What do you think? Since you know me so well, and you know what I get and dont get, and when I change the channel. I'm sure my posts in the past here have made me sound immature, but do I care? If I did, dont you think I wouldnt have posted them? Dont you think I would have tried to make myself sound like someone who cares what you think about my level of maturity? I've made some really stupid comments and posts in the past, enough for you to call me immature and enough for you to question my intelligence. But I've never been disrespectful when it comes to issues such as this. What I have done thats been disrespectful is take part in the argument going on in this thread rather than just showing my respect and moving on. That was a mistake on my part, and I'm willing to admit that. I'm so immature sometimes.
 

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Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 09-10-2006, 03:07 AM:
 
Jeepers, this thread has really gone south since I left for work this week.

To the notion that we're feeling remorse for someone we did not personally know... for me, it is the same reason that good movies work; we become involved on an emotional level. Think of the range of intense feelings you can experience just watching a movie. Sometimes, depending on the picture and your constitution, we can be moved to the point of actually crying.

How many of us cried when Bambi's mother was killed? Or during the funeral scene in "My Girl", where Anna is so distraught by her best friend’s death by bee stings? Heck, I got choked up in "Slingblade", when Carl, knowing what he had to do to save the family he had befriended, told the young boy Frank that he loved him. And folks, these are not only people we don't know... but people who DON'T EVEN EXIST! Our sadness is manifest simply because we feel that we know them, or can relate to them, or appreciate them. Our minds make an emotional connection to that person or situation.

They have touched our lives by proxy.

Admittedly, I have become 'Mr. Emotional' since losing my daughter in December, or maybe middle age has a hand in it, but I find myself with a deeper appreciation for all things; people, situations, relationships, love... than I ever have before.

Dave Williams said it best:

quote: Dave Williams

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It is... a fitting tribute for humanity in general that people such as we, getting together on such a place as here, and talking about things as trivial as people that we did not know, and how they made us feel good about living...

<snip>Every death has a special meaning and purpose for our history, however we cannot just spend our entire lives trying to figure out all of them...

<snip>It only says that we are capable of feeling normal human reactions and emotions. I think that's a good sign, not a bad one.

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quote:

---

To the notion that we're feeling remorse for someone we did not personally know... for me, it is the same reason that good movies work; we become involved on an emotional level. Think of the range of intense feelings you can experience just watching a movie. Sometimes, depending on the picture and your constitution, we can be moved to the point of actually crying.

How many of us cried when Bambi's mother was killed? Or during the funeral scene in "My Girl", where Anna is so distraught by her best friend’s death by bee stings? Heck, I got choked up in "Slingblade", when Carl, knowing what he had to do to save the family he had befriended, told the young boy Frank that he loved him. And folks, these are not only people we don't know... but people who DON'T EVEN EXIST! Our sadness is manifest simply because we feel that we know them, or can relate to them, or appreciate them. Our minds make an emotional connection to that person or situation.

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quote: Tim Reed

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for me, it is the same reason that good movies work; we become involved on an emotional level.

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quote: Michael Schaffer

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Jeremy - you are apparently a good natured and well meaning, but not very intelligent fellow. Or not very mature. Or both. I explained this over and over, and you still don't get it. It is not about being tough or not tough or silly or not silly or pretending or not pretending to feel ot not to feel anything.

It is about honesty. If something happened to me or a family member or a friend or a friend's dog, you wouldn't give a shit just like you don't give a shit about all the many deaths that you see or hear about on the news every day. You just change the channel. There is nothing you can do to help them anyway.

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Micheal:

I think the point that both Jeremy and Chris were making is that death DOES have an effect on people. For example, if I heard, via the forum that you suddenly dropped dead, I would feel bad for your family and friends... and, for the most part, I don't even like you based on many of your posts on FT. That, however, is somwhat irrelevant.

The fact remains that death, when coupled with a personal knowledge of the decedant, does invoke an effect on most people. Seeing that some fella got shot in Houston, or anywhere else for that fact, that I did not know, or know of, has no real effect on me, although at times, I do wonder about the family of the decedant.

I think that you guys who are claiming to care less when someone dies are being overly callous and/or dramatic, but we've seen that in your other posts anyway...
 

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Posted by Anslem Rayburn (Member # 1267) on 09-10-2006, 09:00 AM:
 

quote: Michael Schaffer

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Jeremy - you still don't get it. You can think and feel about whatever however you want, and you can share your views freely, just like everyone else. Just respect there may be people who see and feel things in a different way.

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quote: Michael Schaffer

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I think it it is actually disrespectful to those people who really feel the loss immediately.

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quote: Michael Schaffer

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What was your connection with Mr Irwin, BTW? What was he really like as a person, since you apparently knew him?

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He was in my living room via television on a regular basis. He was as real to me as you are. And I would be sad if something happened to you, as nobody deserves to be harmed or die. Call me a liar if you wish, but people dying affects me. This death would mean more to more people, due to his media exposure, than a clerk being shot in a robbery, and that's why it's posted on a message board frequented by a diverse group of people. I am now done with this thread and discussing it with you. I leave with a simple message :

Thank you Steve Irwin, and may your wife and children lead a happy and safe life doing whatever it is they love. You are missed, and you will always be remembered.
 

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Posted by Chad Souder (Member # 343) on 09-10-2006, 10:28 AM:
 
I would be sad if you died, Michael, but only because there would not be any more of your posts for me to read.

Face it, people, no one outside of the members of this forum care about what is being written here. This is not a "diverse group of people" as Anslem stated. This is a relatively small group of people that have ties in one way or another to the motion picture industry. There are a bajillion different message forums so you can flush the idea that what gets written here is going to reach anyone who is actually close to the issue of Steve Irwin and leave them offended or upset. We all do the Yak forum in our free time because maybe we find joy in discussion or debate or maybe we like the idea of others reading our ideas or maybe we're just bored. It amazes me that some take the time to submit a request to "just move on" without just ignoring the matter and moving on themselves. It also amazes me that some have this thought that only members in agreement are allowed to join in a discussion and any dissenting opinions are not only rude and disrespectful, but forbidden. How boring would these threads be if there were no contrast! Debate is how we grow and if you do not like what is being said, either formulate an educated response to defend your position or shut up and ignore the discussion completely. I feel no ill will toward any of you that have offered a meaningful contribution to this discussion. For those of you that choose to dish out personal attacks, I think that just means you can't think of anything smart to defend your position. The name calling is juvenile and unnecessary. If I have written anything here that was taken as a personaly attack, I apologize. That was not my intent.

Lastly...

quote: Anslem Rayburn

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nobody deserves to be harmed or die.

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quote:

---

I think the reason MOST people feel emotions (sadness, laughter, compassion, understanding, etc.) for the "people" in a film is because of an excellent director and/or the actor's performance that has ***manipulated*** us all to make us "feel" empathy for the characters. That is truly the mark of a professional film maker!

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quote: Pravin Ratnam

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What many seemed to identify with Diana was her get rich by marrying a prince thing and oh poor lady, what an ugly prince had the audacity to do to her factor. That's why i find it silly. Still I am not going to rub it in their presence.

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quote: Jason Black

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Seeing that some fella got shot in Houston, or anywhere else for that fact, that I did not know, or know of, has no real effect on me, although at times, I do wonder about the family of the decedant.

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quote: Jason Black

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I think that you guys who are claiming to care less when someone dies

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quote: Anslem Rayburn

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Thank you for re-stating MY point. RESPECT that some of us think differently than you. Then leave it alone.

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quote: Jeremy Fuentes

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But like you said, I'm entitled to show compassion for a person that I only know from a few words and a still picture, and youre entitled not to.

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Oh good - you finally get it. I think you learned something here. Go ahead and feel like and say what you want, and let other people feel and say whatever they want. There is no reason to start namecalling because people don't agree with your views. You seem to be somewhat fixated on "being a man" for stating views on internet forums. So, what kind of "man" are you? You mentioned compassion for victims of Katrina, 9/11, soldiers dying abroad. What are you actually *doing* to help all these people and their families and live up to your words? Or do you just watch the misery, feel a little bad for a split second, then you change the channel? How does that help? Is there anything you do except profess publically "like a man" to care? Or do you really care and act?
Those are rhetoric questions. I know you didn't do anything to help. But it does feel reeeeaaaallly great to be so righteous, doesn't it?

Anyway, I think we are all repeating ourselves. Uncle Phil said it best on the preceding page. We exchanged a lot of provocative but interesting points - what a good discussion should be about.

Let's all hug and cuddle and feel and care deeply for each other again.

At this point, we are really

 

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Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 09-10-2006, 04:11 PM:
 

quote: Michael Schaffer

---

you will probably agree that the real pain of real loss is infinitely sharper than that and you can't even begin to compare the emotional turmoil such a loss causes to the lightly dosed compassion caused by observing real or staged tragedies from a "safe distance". That is precisely the reason why I feel it is not really honest when people protest to be deeply touched by what happens to people they don't even know.

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quote: Phil Hill

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the reason MOST people feel emotions (sadness, laughter, compassion, understanding, etc.) for the "people" in a film is because of an excellent director and/or the actor's performance that has ***manipulated*** us all to make us "feel" empathy for the characters. That is truly the mark of a professional film maker!

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Oh, I am with you 100%, Phil. That's why I said "good" movies. We become involved on an emotional level and it cuts straight to our very being. What you said was what I meant to say, but I don't think it came out that way.

quote: Cameron Glendinning

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PS Tim I am very sorry to hear about your daughter.

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Thank you, Cameron. That's very kind.
 

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Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 09-10-2006, 07:23 PM:
 
Time, death of close friends, or family member or a close call of your own tends to soften the cold views of those who are indifferent. If you don't think these things will affect you, dream on, one day you will realize that not even you are immortal, your day is out there, it might be tomorrow or 100 years out, like Irwin it may be sooner than you think.
 

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Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 09-10-2006, 10:59 PM:
 
Bill - that sounds very good, but it really has nothing to do with anything anybody here said at all. Nobody said one should be generally indifferent. We were just discussing what emotional relationship people really have to the fates of distant celebrities. As someone who has had to bury one of his parents at a very young age, I know all about what you are saying. But it really has not much to do with the present discussion.
 

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Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 09-11-2006, 03:59 AM:
 
This book contains a wonderful essay which does a complete hatchet job on Princess Di. It characterises her a selfish, upper class spoilt cow, who wallowed in insincere self-pity, mainly for the benefit of her bank balance (and pointing out that although Prince Charles was repeatedly vilified in public for conducting an extra-marital affair, Di did so as well and no-one seemed to mind that). Like many on this thread, the author makes the point that the outpouring of morbid sentimentality which followed her death was more the result of the emotional needs of the 'mourners' than sympathy for the deceased.

I couldn't agree with the writer more: during the week leading up to her funeral, I felt like some sort of pariah for just not being interested in the hullabaloo at all. For those who knew her or had some sort of direct connection with her or her work it was a tragedy, certainly: but for those who didn't and hadn't, it wasn't relevant. I didn't experience any grief whatsoever at her death, for the simple reason that I'd had nothing to do with her during her life. Yet when I expressed this view to some people, their reaction was to ask how I could be so callous and uncaring, etc. etc. Personally I find it bizarre that some people clearly feel the need to engage on that deep an emotional level with someone they've never even met or had any interaction with: but presumably that's what the cult of celebrity is all about.
 

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Posted by Jason Black (Member # 684) on 09-11-2006, 10:37 PM:
 
Wrong on so many levels...


 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 09-11-2006, 11:25 PM:
 
Jason, you brute! Not only is that wrong, it's tasteless, discusting, demeaning, vulgar, uncouth, improper, offensive, and down right sleazy ...but really funny!
 

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Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 09-12-2006, 01:43 AM:
 
Jason - you are so inconsiderate and insensitive!
 

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Posted by Cameron Glendinning (Member # 3516) on 09-12-2006, 03:45 AM:
 
Jason that made my day
 

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Posted by Anslem Rayburn (Member # 1267) on 09-12-2006, 06:46 AM:
 
Funny stuff...

Humor is important...
 

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Posted by Jason Black (Member # 684) on 09-13-2006, 08:27 PM:
 
I'm just me guys...

The demeanor in here was a wee bit on the 'uptight'. I felt it needed a bit of humor, albeit a slight bit tasteless. Beside's, I just beat Joe to the punch of being tasteless. I can be like that sometimes.
 

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Posted by Pravin Ratnam (Member # 1417) on 09-14-2006, 01:34 AM:
 
I didn't think it was tasteless. It seemed good natured fun.

Humor doesn't die.
 

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Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 09-14-2006, 03:39 AM:
 
This one has also been going around...


 

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Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 09-19-2006, 07:01 PM:
 
On the Seven network here right now the memorial service for Steve Irwin is being televised live from the Australia Zoo Steve created.

It's a pretty big deal I have to say...Prime Minister John Howard and Opposition Leader Kym Beazley are there as well as Steve's wife Terry and the kids. The place is packed with well wishers.

Not sure if it's getting a run over in the USA, but expect it will.
 

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Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 09-19-2006, 08:48 PM:
 

quote: John Wilson

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Not sure if it's getting a run over in the USA, but expect it will.

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quote: Frank Dubrois

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I don't understand why The Wiggles were there

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