Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Wireless Networking Question

This is topic Wireless Networking Question in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=004980

Posted by Adam Fraser (Member # 1074) on 02-26-2007, 06:33 PM:

I have two buildings on my property that I would like to both share a satellite internet connection. They are approximately 1000ft. apart and one is approx 20-30 feet higher in elevation. There is one line of tall trees between the two buildings and a christmas tree field w/ 10ft tall trees between the two also.

Is this even possible, and what equipment would be needed to accomplish this. Both are fairly new desktops.

Posted by Jarryd Beard (Member # 2543) on 02-26-2007, 07:44 PM:

Look into the Super Cantenna. My friend has one of these. It really improved his signal range. I'd imagine some networks he was able to connect to were at least 1/4 mile away. One in each building might be all the better. They are reasonable in price as well, especially when compared to the worthless "high gain" antennas sold by the router companies.

Posted by Mike Olpin (Member # 1115) on 02-26-2007, 08:07 PM:

I've seen this homemade with a pringles can once.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 02-26-2007, 08:16 PM:

How much do you want to spend and how much do you care about reliability?

Most likely, you want something like this. Also, check out the Proxim product line.

Posted by Jon Miller (Member # 163) on 02-26-2007, 08:23 PM:

quote: Jarryd Beard
Look into the Super Cantenna.

The first thing that came to my mind upon seeing "Cantenna" is an old Heathkit dummy load in a paint can. I'm not a ham, but I remember seeing those things in Heathkit catalogs long ago.

Posted by Adam Fraser (Member # 1074) on 02-27-2007, 10:14 AM:

Im willing to spend several hundered dollars for something that works properly. Thanks for the replies. Maybe up to $400-500.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 02-27-2007, 05:54 PM:

You can also do point to point links with lasers; we've got three pairs of these: web page They're generally pretty reliable, we've been using them for about four or five years now. very dense fog, or sun shining directly into them can cause problems, but most of the time they just work. We've got the 100Mb. ones, but they also make Gigabit ones. They're not in the price range you're looking for though, unless you can find a secondhand pair.

Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 03-28-2011, 10:24 AM:

It has been 1489 days since the last post.

Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 03-28-2011, 10:24 AM:

I've got a similar situation to Adam's, and I'm not sure what equipment I need to accomplish it. We've got DSL internet service at the theatre, and we're going to start using the internet to process our credit card transactions. Our credit card terminals (First Data FD-100) have an Ethernet port on them so they can be hooked to the network, so the terminals inside the building we have no problem with as it will all be hardwired. Our ticket booth is approximately 300 feet away from the main building, and we have no communication wires going down to the booth from the main building. I've been told I can do it wirelessly, but don't know what equipment I need. There will be no computer in the ticket booth, only the credit card terminal that can be hooked to a network. What do I need on each end to make it work reliably and securely?

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-28-2011, 11:16 AM:

It sounds like you might need a pair of directional WiFi radios and a network POE (point of entry) device. We have to use this approach with sending data to/from certain LED-based electronic variable message centers.

One of the radio models we're using is an EnGenius EOC2611P. It's a "super G" 108Mbps rated model. You can order these from Streakwave Wireless. The range on these radios is really pretty far, up to 6 miles. You should have no trouble jumping 300 feet. The radios include a POE.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 03-28-2011, 11:34 AM:

Do you have a telephone in the ticket booth? If the telephone wire has two copper pairs and runs to the main building, you could use the extra pair for a DSL circuit. You can buy two used SDSL (not ADSL) routers on Ebay and set up a DSL circuit between the ticket booth and the building that has the wired connection. This would be easy to set up and more reliable than wireless anything.

Alternatively, if you have a telephone in the ticket booth, but the wire goes to the telephone company central office and not your main building, you might be able to get the phone company to sell you an "alarm circuit" that terminates in the ticket booth and main building for a few dollars per month. If the total distance is not too great, you could probably run DSL over that (but that is not guaranteed).

Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 03-28-2011, 11:58 AM:

Scott, we have no telephone lines going down to the ticket booth either, only 2 electrical circuits in a 1 inch buried conduit.

My thoughts were to have just the credit card terminal in the ticket booth, plugged into some type of wireless device via RJ45 ethernet cable, then transmit the signal back up to the building wirelessly to some network transceiver that was plugged into the network switch.

The Streakwave link that Bobby provided looked like it might do the trick.

Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 03-28-2011, 03:16 PM:

If you plan on transmitting credit card data wirelessly, make sure you secure your network and encrypt the data.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-28-2011, 05:43 PM:

The EnGenius radios will let you encrypt the data. They also allow MAC address filtering.

Posted by Bradley Peters (Member # 6016) on 03-28-2011, 06:00 PM:

If the wireless units can be located inside on both ends then you may not need actual outdoor units. (At 300 feet the long range design typical in the outdoor units is almost certainly more than necessary.)

You might be able to use a device designed to connect a set-top box or media player to a home wireless network for example. (With a standard wireless router connected in your main building.)

Some examples:

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-28-2011, 06:44 PM:

Although the EnGenius radios are powerful and designed for outdoor use, they're not very expensive (around $75 to $80 depending on where you buy them).

Posted by Bajsic Bojan (Member # 4928) on 03-29-2011, 02:33 PM:

we are also in the process of getting something to connect the network of two or three buildings. We were looking at getting antenna based wireless but we have no line of sight between buildings.

So, is there an omni-directional, wireless solution, with only 2 units, at least 30Mbit/s, 200yards apart, with buildings in between, possible?

In sub-2k$ range.

The alternative we have is running optical fibre direct from one location to another, its a monthly expense tho.

I've looked at basically lots of things but i'm not that wifi-savvy to know if perhaps this Tranzeo WiMax thing would do the job, or i'm way off.

any input appreciated

Posted by Bruce Hansen (Member # 281) on 03-29-2011, 05:27 PM:

I have seen units that will send a network over power lines. I don't remember who made them, or where I saw them. But, they may not work well in a industrial area.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 03-29-2011, 09:04 PM:

Barry, if you only have AC running to the ticket booth, you can use an Audio-Over-AC device specifically geared to either voice bandwidth audio or modem data. GE and PhoneX makes them.
On Amazon

They are consumer products, yes, but we have used them very successfully for modem connections to telephone lines with the only available connection was AC. Card Readers will work equally as well. Only thing, obviously the transmitter and receiver have to be on the same leg of the mains transformer. You also wouldn't want to use it in a REALLY noisey AC/high EMI environment. For under $75 though, it's not much of a risk to try one out. As I said, we have used them very successfully.

Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 05-10-2011, 04:46 PM:

We finally got everything installed and working on our new wireless connection to the boxoffice. I used Bobby's suggestion and went with the Engenius EOC2611P radios, and it works like a charm. I bought external antennas, but I really don't need them. Set the one at the concession stand in "Access Point" mode, and the one down at the boxoffice to "Client Bridge", and it essentially acts like a 400 foot long network cable.

Thanks everyone for your help and suggestions.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 05-10-2011, 04:56 PM:

I recommend you encrypt the data between the radios. We tend to set them in bridge mode for peer to peer use only and with MAC address filtering enabled. Basically the radios only see themselves and the "access point" side of things isn't available to anyone wardriving around in the area with a notebook computer. Basically it eliminates the chance of anyone using the transmission from those radios as a means of invading your network.

Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 05-11-2011, 10:44 AM:

I did enable the security encryption with a 20 character hex-digit key, and suppressed the SSID so it doesn't broadcast the availability of the access point.

Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 05-12-2011, 02:09 PM:

Somebody explain this.....

Get everything hooked up with the new wireless bridge, and everything works splendidly. I can process credit cards via the net both from the hard-wired terminal and the terminal on the new wireless bridge. We also have a network DVR plugged into the Netgear switch that we can remotely monitor the cameras when we're not at the theatre. I can sit here at my desk at the office 15 miles away from the theatre and watch what's going on down there all day long. What I can't do is connect to the internet any longer on the theatre network with my laptop. Keeps telling me "Connected with limited access". I tried the wireless connection - nothing. I tried hard-wired with an ethernet cable to the laptop - nothing.

Go home with the laptop, set it on the kitchen table and it automatically connects to our home network and I can surf the web with no problems.

If I can surf the web at home - I don't really think I have a computer issue. Since the DSL modem/router is handing the credit card data and DVR signals over the web, I wouldn't think I have a DSL modem/router problem. The only thing we did different yesterday at the theatre was to install external antennas on the Engenius bridge radios, and flip the switch on the back of the radios from internal to external.

Would the external antennas really cause such an issue?

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 05-12-2011, 03:16 PM:

Try changing it back and see if all works well. Then you will know for pretty much for certain that something is wrong with that external antenna or the connection to it.

Although I think you need to instead go to http://support.microsoft.com/kb/930517/

The above link tends to indicate that early versions of Vista that haven't had the newer Service Pack installed will give that error message when you connect through a networking bridge. So if you haven't updated in a while, now would be a good time.

Posted by Bruce Hansen (Member # 281) on 05-13-2011, 07:46 PM:

Try rebooting (unplug power for a minute) the wireless router that your laptop is hooking up to. They get confused at times.