Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Phantom of the Opera with Organ & Orch

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Posted by Mark Lensenmayer (Member # 134) on 03-09-2007, 02:46 PM:

The Columbus Symphony will be presenting the Lon Chaney version of PHANTOM OF THE OPERA with full orchestra and organ at the Ohio Theatre in Columbus, OH on March 31 at 8:00. Tickets seem to be very available, as I just picked up 2 loge tickets today, and those are the best seats in that house.

Organist will be Dennis James, who was once the house organist at the Ohio, and went "big time" when he started traveling with the original production of NAPOLEON in the early '80's. It will be very nice to see him back in action at the Ohio.

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 03-09-2007, 02:53 PM:

I saw "Napoléon" with live orchestra, not organ, back then. It was in a large multifunction hall in Berlin with a local orchestra conducted by Carmine Coppola. It was pretty good, but I couldn't imagine sitting there for 4 hours listening to just an organ, that's a little boring.

Posted by Bernard Tonks (Member # 809) on 03-09-2007, 06:31 PM:

The Lon Chaney version of PHANTOM OF THE OPERA (1925) with full orchestra and organ was shown recently at the Covent Garden Opera House, London. The engineer who services the cinema where I do relief projection, told me all about it. He did the rear projection installation and was the projectionist. As the film was silent speed it ran on a single projector with large spools, so there was no need to use a platter or tower.

Internet Movie Database

Abel Gance’s NAPOLEON (1927) was shown a few years ago at the Empire Theatre, Leicester Square London, with a full orchestra under the direction of Carl Davis. A 4th projector was installed for the screening which was a Westar with a Westrex tower. The three Philips DP-70 projectors showed the 3 x 35mm tri-screen sequence.

Internet Movie Database

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-09-2007, 07:34 PM:

Hopefully they will cut a silent aperature plate for it and show it properly as well as re-center the lens on aperature center. It ran here in SLC at the Capitol Theater and we cut a plate for it then. Looks pretty good. The print we ran was step printed to project properly at 24fps. It also had a Dolby Digital track as well.

Mark

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 03-09-2007, 08:35 PM:

"Step printed"?

Posted by Mark Lensenmayer (Member # 134) on 03-09-2007, 09:04 PM:

Michael,

The original showings of NAPOLEON were for large orchestra AND organ. RADIO CITY was the first engagement, followed by the one in Columbus. I've never seen the pit so full of musicians...the string bass section was actually on the auditorium floor out of the pit. There are a few sections of that score for organ only, as I recall.

For the record, the first 2 US engagements required 5 projectors...2 for the main film running reel-to-reel and 3 synched for the three screen section.

I've seen PHANTOM a number of times, but never with orchestra and organ. Should be much fun!

Posted by Hillary Charles (Member # 769) on 03-09-2007, 09:35 PM:

Step Printing--if the film is cranked at 16 fps, every other frame is printed twice to approximate a cranking speed of 24 fps, so upon projection at sound speed, the motion doesn't appear too fast.

Sometimes it looks jerky to me, but if it keeps a drama from turning into an unintentional comedy, I'm for it.

When the Thames Silents series played at Radio City, we saw "The Big Parade" with Carl Davis conducting his own score. Nothing beats a full orchestra (especially with a Davis score), but I can also easily enjoy the accompaniment of a good organist. One of my film professors insisted on showing silent films SILENT. That wasn't just boring--that was DEATH.

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 03-09-2007, 09:38 PM:

Got to see Phantom with orchestra and organ in 2001 at the Orpheum in downtown Los Angeles. It was part of the Los Angeles Conservancy's annual "Last Remaining Seats" series celebrating the last of the old LA downtown movie palaces (this year's event will run May 23rd through June 27th). Getting to see Phantom that way in that theater was quite the treat.

Posted by Fred Georges (Member # 505) on 03-09-2007, 10:10 PM:

"Step printed"?

The Phantom was shot to be presented at about 22fps. Most Silents shot in the Mid 1920's had frame rates in the 20-24 fps area. I've run The Eastman House print of "Phantom" on Numerous occasions and 22 fps is it. The picture was re-issued by Universal in 1929 with Sound. Many non-Chaney sequences were re-shot with the original cast and dialog. The advertising of the time used the tag line "Everyone Speaks but the Phantom". This "Talkie" version is the Silent version that Eastman house distributes. To my knowledge the only prints available of the "Original" 1925 version are some very crummy 16mm, prints. The Vitaphone discs are lost for the "Talkie" 29 version. [Big Grin]

Posted by Bob Koch (Member # 1062) on 03-09-2007, 11:41 PM:

In aggreement with Hillary Charles, I`m 84 years old , spent a career stretching from WE Mirrophonic to Dolby to THX and we still cannot duplicate the sound of a "live" pit orchestra. Nothing can compare.

Posted by Cameron Glendinning (Member # 3516) on 03-10-2007, 04:39 AM:

I ran a 16mm print of "Phantom of the Opera" the experience complete with a Wurlitzer Organ played by Neil Jensen at the Cremorne Orpheum, That would have been in the early 90's. I vaguely remember that there was some interesting two color footage.

I also remember running "Napoléon" there on Bastelle Day, Complete with the 70 mm multi screen final reel and the silver curtains lit as a french flag.

quote: Michael Schaffer
I couldn't imagine sitting there for 4 hours listening to just an organ, that's a little boring.

Thankfully Neil accompanied with the film's orchestral soundtrack

quote: Hillary Charles
One of my film professors insisted on showing silent films SILENT. That wasn't just boring--that was DEATH.

That honestly was just stupid, silent films were never intended to be seen that way. I guess today at least you would be able to sneak an ipod in.

I look forward to the day that a cinema sound system finally does sound as good as an orchestra in the pit. I hope its closer than we think.

Posted by Hillary Charles (Member # 769) on 03-10-2007, 08:02 AM:

quote: Cameron Glendinning
That honestly was just stupid, silent films were never intended to be seen that way. I guess today at least you would be able to sneak an ipod in.

Yeah, I'm with you, but my professor was of the opinion that in order to properly study silent film, one must watch them in silence. To me, film study is also film appreciation and if you make someone hostile to a certain form of film, they'll not be motivated to learn anything about it.

For a couple of years, I projected the films in his classes, and one evening, he was not able to open his class before showing "The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari." He told me, "You know the film, tell them what to look for, and run the film." Since he wasn't there, I hooked up the speakers and asked the class not to tell him I'm playing the soundtrack. The music was bizarre, and not the best, but it was better than nothing.

Silent film with live music is a truly unique artform, and it's wonderful that it is still practiced as much as it is. To think that at one time, more musicians were playing in cinemas than anywhere else in this country.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-10-2007, 07:49 PM:

quote: Hillary Charles
my professor was of the opinion that in order to properly study silent film, one must watch them in silence

Your Prof must be smokin that I-30 stuff! I'd demnand a refund on that class!

Typically silent films were accompanied by...

Large orchestras or pipe organs in the larger theaters

Pipe organ or band instruments in medium theaters

Piano in small joints

Only the film editor saw it silent.

Mark

Posted by Hillary Charles (Member # 769) on 03-11-2007, 12:38 AM:

I respected my prof a great deal, but differed sharply on this point. How many times did I have to project the Odessa Steps sequence from "Potemkin" with no sound...?

We also differed on the Fatty Arbuckle case. He insisted that Arbuckle was guilty primarily based on the fact that he perfomred in drag in several of his comedies (I kid you not). I suppose it didn't matter that just about every Sennett performer did drag on occasion. I preferred to believe Buster Keaton and the jury that acquitted Arbuckle.

Speaking of Keaton, I'm in the process of putting together a piano score for when we show "The General" on 16mm here at home this year for the 80th anniversary. Gotta have some live music.

Our basement is just a "small joint" and we don't have room for an orchestra and pipe organ. [Big Grin]

That "Phantom" show sounds great. I've heard of Dennis James and am sure it will be memorable.

Posted by Rick Raskin (Member # 1561) on 03-11-2007, 08:35 AM:

quote: Michael Schaffer
I couldn't imagine sitting there for 4 hours listening to just an organ, that's a little boring.

Actually it wasn't but a full orchestra would have been the ultimate. I saw it at the old AFI theatre when it was restored in the early 1970s. The reel prior to the triptych sequence was in 16mm to allow setup of the #3 machine. The AFI back then had 3 XLs and a Hortson 16.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 03-12-2007, 01:33 PM:

quote: Michael Schaffer
I saw "Napoléon" with live orchestra, not organ, back then. It was in a large multifunction hall in Berlin with a local orchestra conducted by Carmine Coppola.

The Carl Davis score is much better, IMHO. The Coppola one was only written because Francis Ford insisted as part of the deal whereby he was involved in the funding of Brownlow's restoration. Apparently there's a copyright issue which prevents the Davis score from being performed anywhere other than within Britain, sadly. Brownlow goes into the details in the 2004 second edition of his book on the film. There was also a third score, an adaption of music by Honegger done by Marius Constant, which was performed once in Paris with the second (2001) major restoration of the film. It did not go down well with the audience, and has never been performed since (details on pp. 240-241 of Brownlow).

To get round the jerky movement on successive frame speed blowups, it would be great if someone could develop a variant of Dolby Digital which could operate at lower speeds - perhaps by reducing the number of channels to fit the lower bandwidth available if the film is running, say at 16-18fps. Shouldn't be too difficult, I'd have thought, and CPs in theatres could be made compatible with just a software upgrade. That would enable a decent recorded orchestral socre to be played while the film runs at its correct speed.