Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Calling Any Drive-In Theatre Experts

This is topic Calling Any Drive-In Theatre Experts in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Toby Glanville (Member # 4273) on 05-01-2007, 04:49 PM:

Hi there,

I have a difficult question regarding historic drive-in movie theatres. I'm an environmental consultant and I'm doing work on a former drive-in property in Toronto, Ontario. The name of the theatre is the Northeast Drive-In and it was open from 1948 to 1977. I've done some research already and it sounds like parking lots of these old drive-in theatres used to be treated with an oil-based dust suppressant to control the amount of dust created by all the cars coming in and out. What I need to know is whether or not the practice of spreading oil on the lot was a regular maintenance procedure for these historic drive-in theatres. Essentially, I'm looking to establish the degree of likelihood my site was contaminated by a former dust suppressant.

Any suggestions or direction would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time.

Toby [Confused]

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 05-01-2007, 06:19 PM:

hmmmmm not sure of that. I worked a drive-in back in the 80's but nothing like that was ever mentioned to me. We had gravel in the lot between the rows. Remember you probably have oil just from where cars sat in the lot and leaked on the ground.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 05-01-2007, 06:25 PM:

Wouldn't it be simpler to just test the soil?

Posted by Toby Glanville (Member # 4273) on 05-01-2007, 06:41 PM:

Darryl, thanks for your reply. If you follow this link (http://www.driveinworkshop.com/surfacing/surface.htm), you'll end up on a page of a website developed by a drive-in theatre expert. He mentions the procedure of oiling the parking lot; however, I'm still trying to find more industry individuals (like yourself) to confirm this type operation. As these theatres were very old, I understand the difficulty in finding excerpts from former drive-in maintenance operators. Thanks again for your input!

Chris, in most cases it would be easier to simply test the soil. In this case, however, our client has already built two large office buildings on the property and any soil testing would cost thousands of dollars. My gut feeling is that oiling drive-in lots was in fact a normal operating procedure by many theatres, but it has been difficult to convince my peers of this theory.

I guess the search continues!

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 05-01-2007, 07:11 PM:

You might be seeing a reference to a practice called "shot and cover". It's still common in the US, especially on rural surface streets.

None of the drive-ins in our state have this kind of surface. They're either asphalt pavement, gravel or grass.

A road crew will spray a coating of an oil/asphalt substance, then cover that with gravel. After the gravel presses in and the asphalt sets up (a couple of days or so), the road crew comes back and sweeps off the residual loose gravel.

The practice extends the life of roadways, especially lesser-used ones.

If you're concerned about side-effects, you might visit your area road department for information. They probably know as much as anyone would. As Chris says, if there's any reason for you to be worried, you'd probably need to do a soil test on-site.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 05-01-2007, 07:18 PM:

Gravel roads in ontario were sprayed with a oil waste product from refrineries to keep dust down and many driveins in ontario were also sprayed

Posted by Toby Glanville (Member # 4273) on 05-01-2007, 07:42 PM:

Jack, thanks for the detailed info. Although Washington drive-ins currently consist of these asphalt, gravel or grass surfaces, I'm more concerned about theatres from the 1930s to 1970s. Which is where Gordon comes in ...

Gordon, is there any way you can elaborate further or direct me to information sources regarding oil spraying on drive-in theatre lots? By the way, the historic theatre I'm speaking of was located near Victoria Park and Sheppard Avenue East. It sounds like you're the man I'm looking for!

Posted by Wayne Keyser (Member # 2420) on 05-01-2007, 08:55 PM:

Regardless of whether spraying was common, you need to know more than whether your site "might" be contaminated. Unless it's completely unimportant (in which case forget it) you need to know whether this specific site IS contaminated. Test the soil.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 05-01-2007, 10:13 PM:

I am the perpetrator, err.. creator of said website, although Brad Light now owns it. FWIW, a good deal of that information was culled from vintage texts, so some of it is today nearly 70 years-old. There should be a disclaimer to that effect on the site.

While to my knowledge, spreading oil on drive-in lots wasn't all that common in later theatres in this country, it was "recommended practice" in the 30s and 40s.

Posted by Toby Glanville (Member # 4273) on 05-01-2007, 10:31 PM:

Tim, you created one heck of a website (I now know that the first drive-in theatre was built in 1933!). That section regarding lot surfacing was very informative. As you pointed out, surface oiling was in fact a procedure used for a period of time. And it sounds like I can establish an initial period when oil spraying took place (c. 1933). Now I need to find out when this practice went the way of the dinosaurs. As Gordon also noted, here in Ontario many drive-in theatres applied waste oil from refineries (and I would presume other waste oil sources like gas service stations) on to their lots to control dust.

I'm almost there. I just need a little more hard data! Thanks to everybody for helping out. Keep it coming!

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 05-01-2007, 11:56 PM:

Waste oil spraying was/is common in USA drive ins to cut down dust on gravel. Louis

Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 05-02-2007, 12:32 AM:

In the mid-1970s, the town of Times Beach, Missouri had its dirt roads sprayed with used oil which was secretly mixed with waste from a chemical plant. It was the largest civilian exposure of dioxin (part of Agent Orange) in the US. The EPA investigated and evacuated the town in 1985 and all but one building was destroyed by 1992 as part of the massive Superfund cleanup project.

Also, please change the subject of this thread to something that describes the contents.

Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 05-02-2007, 12:11 PM:

Not saying any drive-in owners would do this, but I've known of drive-in owners to use regular #2 diesel fuel in a pump sprayer as a weed retardant. Kills off all of the undergrowth and future emerging weeds... from what I hear. [Roll Eyes]

Also, understand that although I'm a drive-in owner, I'm also a site designer for a civil and environmental engineering firm, and like the others have said, get out the auger and have it tested. At our firm, we call that "Billable Hours". [thumbsup]

I would love to have the tar & chip (that's what we call it here in TN) road surfaces at my drive-in. Spending $275-$300 per truck load of gravel gets to be a pain in the butt real quick. Other than the costs associated with the tar & chip application, it would increase the "impervious surface ratio" for my theatre, which entails dealing with the local city, county and state stormwater people. Stormwater run-off is becoming a major thing to deal with here.

I've talked to a drive-in owner in Ohio who uses slag millings from steel plants as driving surfaces instead of gravel... he said it last forever.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 05-02-2007, 06:28 PM:

The only source I could think of is you might contact the ministry of transportation to find out what was sprayed on roads

Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 05-03-2007, 08:50 PM:

Mr. Glanville sounds suspiciously like an attorney preparing a lawsuit against some past owner of a drive in and is fishing for incriminating information.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 05-03-2007, 10:37 PM:

quote: Bill Enos
Mr. Glanville sounds suspiciously like an attorney

I'd considered that possibility. [Wink]

Posted by Toby Glanville (Member # 4273) on 05-04-2007, 06:59 PM:

Bill, now I've heard it all! I can honestly say that a lawyer comparison has never been thrown my way in my life (hahaha). Thanks for the chuckle!

I can assure every single drive-in owner in North America that I'm not out to get them. The truth is, I'm on a bit of a mission. My inquiries are simply a result of my Curious George syndrome that seems to get me in trouble now and then. A fellow at my work disagreed with me that waste oil was ever applied on drive-in lots, and the challenge for finding the truth has led me here. I was told I would find some experts at this Site and it appears that I wasn't let down.

I appreciate everyone's input and rest assured no drive-in owners will be sued along my travels. I'm an environmental consultant, not a Greenpeace lawyer!

Thanks again!

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 05-04-2007, 07:22 PM:

Toby, FWIW, it has happened before. To me. [Wink]

It's sad that we live in such a sue-happy culture. While still being truthful, I now choose my words more carefully when replying to such inquiries.

Btw, thank you for the nice words. [Smile]

Posted by Cameron Glendinning (Member # 3516) on 05-04-2007, 09:42 PM:

Tim I enjoyed your work on the above mentioned site. So inspired by it, I made the long trip to one of the only 2 Drive In left in Sydney. It was both my wifes and 4 year old sons first time, they loved it. Well be going again real soon.

Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 05-05-2007, 01:05 AM:

Toby needs to read my previous post and change the subject line of this thread.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 05-05-2007, 01:06 PM:

Thanks, Cameron! [Smile]

I'm glad to know you all were able to create such a wonderful memory - hopefully the first of many to come. Good show! [thumbsup]

Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 05-05-2007, 07:17 PM:

Toby, sorry for the insult but your inquiry raised my suspicions.

Tim, the D.I. site is excellent.