Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Getting Oil Leaks fixed is overrated (AKA: Eat shit All Pro Auto Care)

This is topic Getting Oil Leaks fixed is overrated (AKA: Eat shit All Pro Auto Care) in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 08-28-2007, 01:34 PM:

My dad gave me his car since he was buying a new one and the one I owned was clearly not going to make the trip from here in Seattle to Houston. And before he gave it to me he, thankfully, got quite a bit of work done to it. But a few days ago I noticed that it had a pretty sizeable oil leak which ended up being from the drip pan gasket being damaged. So I take it to get it fixed.

They told me over the phone it'd be ready by 4:30 pm so I walk down there and it's not ready so I'm like "Ok I'll pick it up in the morning" because I had a going away party to go to right then (good thing my theater was walking distance from the place). Then the guy asked me if his boss had called me; I responded "No, why?"

Well...

It ends up that the car lift's left arm broke and my car fell to the side. They said their insurance company will pay for all the damaged (they better, otherwise I'm going to court). And thankfully all my stuff in my trunk appears to stayed intact (I had it full of my computer gear since I'm moving). So the driver's side door frame is bent and I've got dents/scratches in various places. They also had to unbend part of the door frame because I pointed it out to them that my window wouldn't shut.

All things considered, there's a lot less damage than there could've been; but lots more than there SHOULD'VE been.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-28-2007, 03:30 PM:

I would still tell them that you're taking them to court just to be sure your problems are properly satisfied. This is unusual but the threat of court action is certinaly justified. You will probably get an out of court insurance settlement offer before its ever heard in court and be sure its for the entire value of the car... you don't know what damage may lie hidden.

Mark

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 08-28-2007, 06:35 PM:

Always use a lawyer...if you can find an honest one. When the lawyer calls, the settlement will be immediate, the check cashed and you will be on-your-way.

Last time I only wanted $400 and said so. They sent me $750 just "in case." Louis

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-28-2007, 07:13 PM:

quote: Louis Bornwasser
Always use a lawyer...if you can find an honest one.

Didn't Groucho used to say that?

Mark

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 08-29-2007, 03:23 AM:

That's going to end up being about the most expensive sump gasket replacement the garage ever did!

A linguistically challenged relative once had problems communicating with a filling station attendant in France (very few are self-service there), who filled her diesel (as in, top of the range turbodiesel) car up with petrol. Once they'd shipped the dead car back to England, replaced its engine and given her a hired replacement for the rest of her holiday, the insurance bill came to several grand.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 08-29-2007, 03:31 AM:

I'm just glad I don't have a car.

Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 08-29-2007, 08:54 AM:

I used to own a 1989 Chrysler LeBaron convertable. At the end of the last summer I owned it, I decided to fix the leaking power stearing box. I had been driving around all summer with a bottle of power steering fluid to refill it every few days. It seems the service station did not tighten some fluid line, because 5 miles out of the station, I lost power steering, and when I stopped, the engine caught fire. The car was totaled, and the service station's insurance paid me $1000 more than I was about to sell the car for ($1000 more than the car was worth). No lawyer, just persistance on my part.

Posted by Dominic Espinosa (Member # 2122) on 08-29-2007, 09:03 AM:

Friend of mine took his wifes Suburban into a reputable shop around these parts a while back to have the transfer cases serviced and got it back sans 1 lug nut and all 4 wheels loose with the front drivers side lugs loose enough to turn by hand!

This and many other reasons make me not trust mechanics...

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 08-29-2007, 12:07 PM:

Rereading Chris's post, it's a bloody good job the car hoist didn't break while the mechanic was working underneath the car!

I've seen them at the garage which does my routine services: one of the reasons I no longer do that myself is that it's just too much time and hassle, with no real cost saving. To change the oil and filter in my car, you have to jack it up to get at the filter and sump plug. For example - cost of a bottle of oil and a filter: around £30. Cost of getting the oil and filter changed at Nationwide Autocentre: £31.99.

I guess that one of the reasons they can keep the labour hours down per job is that these hoists that simply lift the car six feet into the air with working space underneath makes it quick and easy to gain access to any part of it. But if I was a mechanic working at one of these places, I'm sure I'd be scared of the thing collapsing while I was working underneath the car. Even with axle stands in place, that's always at the back of my mind when I'm working underneath a jacked-up car.

Posted by Tim Asten (Member # 4051) on 08-29-2007, 12:50 PM:

Hi, Leo. £31.99 sounds awfully cheap for an oil change. For 32 quid 10 of that must go for labour and profit at least plus 7 quid or so for a filter - That doesn't leave much for the actual oil. You must always get the best oil you can afford especially if you have a newer car. I put nothing less than premium Mobil 1 synthetic in my car. It costs a fortune (£35 + filter from Halfords) but if you change it your self it keeps the cost down. Nothing will prolong the life of a car engine more than top quality oil changed often. Tim

[ 08-29-2007, 04:13 PM: Message edited by: Tim Asten ]

Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 08-29-2007, 01:01 PM:

When it comes to both lube jobs and break jobs, there are some old (and still used) mechanics scams that one must watch out for.

Whenever my Dad took his car in for even a basic lube job, he would always watch the mechanics...and many times they would be annoyed by having their customer watch them. For example, my Dad took his car in just to have the transmission filter changed and new fluid added. The "mechanic" emptied the old fluid into a filthy pan, and my Dad caught him just as he was about ready to pour it back into the the transmission! And this was via one of the MAJOR national transmission service-chains.

I always do my own lube jobs, but on one occasion I was in a hurry and decided to stop into one of the quick-lube national chain-type places. The kid on duty did not have the correct type oil filter, and wanted to top off my tranny fluid with the incorrect type fluid. I cought him in the act and did not allow him to touch my car. And to make matters worse, this kid INSISTED that the correct type filter and fluid for my car did not exist!

I think that just about anyone on this forum is capable of doin their own lube jobs...and just about any auto parts store will recycle used oil at no charge.

As far as break shops are concerned, the biggest scam is in turning rotors and drums, as well as "lifetime warranty" pads and shoes. As far as rotors and drums are concerned: drums have a max allowable inside diameter and rotors have a minimum allowable thickness. These specs are cast into the drums and rotors. By all means a set of drums and rotors should last for many, many break jobs, bucause when you turn them, you want to remove the MINIMUM amount of material...just enough to true and clean them up. What a lot of these places like to do is to remove the MAXIMUM amount of material, so that the customer is forced to purchase new drums and rotors at the next visit. And these places do mark-up drums and rotors!! The other scam is lifetime pads. Many brake component manufacturers like Raybestos automatically have lifetime warranty on their parts...even if you buy them at the local auto-parts store. And pads/shoes are usually dirt cheap.

As far as tire and wheel service is concerned: my family has been a customer of Discount Tires for years...and no matter what store has been visited in whatever city...the service has always been competent and polite and the costs reasonable.

Cheers

K

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-29-2007, 01:03 PM:

If you change your oil often, there's no need to spend the extra money for synthetic unless your car's manual calls for it.

(At least that's my opinion, but I know there are a few different schools of thought on this.)

The biggest thing to remember when changing the oil is, change the filter too. Lots of people cheap-out and don't do this.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-29-2007, 01:25 PM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
If you change your oil often, there's no need to spend the extra money for synthetic unless your car's manual calls for it.

Well, If you change your oil and filter every 3000 miles then a synthetic change every 7500... or if you use the latest synthetics at every 10,000 would actually cost less.... aside from the many benefits of running synthetic your engine will just plain last longer. If you don't want more life out of your engine then use the standard liquified fossil stuff.

Mark

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 08-29-2007, 02:48 PM:

I recently changed my car (as in, a couple of months ago): my '97 Mondeo started to show signs of needing some expensive repairs (three of the four tyres probably were borderline legal, the water pump was squeaking and one of the rear wheel bearings was starting to sound knackered), and with 211k miles on the clock and an MOT coming up in October, it simply wasn't worth fixing. The car was by that stage literally worthless (though I managed to sell it for £150 for someone who wanted to take the LPG kit out of it). I know have an '03 1.25 litre Fiesta (the very last of the Mk. 5s), bought with 25k miles on the clock, and it's fantastic. Despite the small engine, it feels like a sports car - REALLY powerful acceleration in second and third, and it easily gives me 50mpg on the commute to work (nearer 55 if I drive gently). The insurance is stupidly cheap, too - only £215 fully comp, and the tax is in the bottom band (£115). To me it combines the good points of a 'boring' car (cheap to run and no-one wants to nick it) with some pretty sporty driving.

Nationwide Autocentres claim that the £31.99 oil and filter changes are with synthetic 5W/30 oil. I can only presume that as a chain garage, they buy the stuff in such vast bulk that they don't pay anything close to what I would for a 5-litre bottle in Halfords, and can therefore pass some of that saving onto the customer. I get it changed every 5k miles, and a full service every 10. I ran the Mondeo for over 80k miles like that, and when it did finally die, it wasn't the engine that killed it.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-29-2007, 03:31 PM:

Anyone that thinks synthetic oil is hogwash should read the many stories like Leo's or take a look at the Christie Ultramittent. Indy 500 cars could NOT RUN without Synthetics....

Another good example are the many Ultramittents have been running for over 15 years on the same factory installed synthetic oil! Try this with regular oil in your own intermittent and see what happens..... Many new cars shipped today are filled with Synthetic fluids at the factory.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-29-2007, 07:07 PM:

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
Many new cars shipped today are filled with Synthetic fluids at the factory.

Like I said, if your car wants synthetic, give it synthetic. Some people think they can put in synthetic oil and just forget it, so sometimes it leads to more engine damage than it protects.

I've always used the regular stuff. My vehicles get run hard....a couple of dozen 1/2 mile or less trips every day, and hardly any highway miles. I traded in a '92 Ranger with 160,000 miles on it, and we currently have an '03 Escape with 111,000 miles. No engine problems at all. Conversely, I had an '86 Thunderbird back in my partyin' days that I really neglected, hardly ever changed the oil, and that engine cratered at 89,000 miles. So, regular oil changes are the key, the type of oil used is less important. As long as it's good oil.

Of course ours are all Fords, so that could be the reason they're so hardy. [Big Grin]

Posted by Wyatt Copeland (Member # 4433) on 08-29-2007, 10:39 PM:

quote: Will Kutler
Whenever my Dad took his car in for even a basic lube job, he would always watch the mechanics...

Just recently when I went down to South Carolina for my girlfriend's graduation from Basic, her parent's car broke down while down there. Well they called the tow truck, had it towed to the nearest pep boys. When I went down there with Jackie to see how they were doing, we find her dad doing all the work. The man just needed a garage. Probably the best way to do it when you know what you're doin. [thumbsup]

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 08-29-2007, 10:47 PM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
Of course ours are all Fords, so that could be the reason they're so hardy.

(...cuz, someone HAS to drive 'em... [Eek!]

)

I use AMSOIL 5w30 pure synthetic in all of my cars (and even in the motorbike when I had it ..)..and do the 7500mile change like MARK mentions, which to me, that's almost a once a year under the car on a creeper with the cars up on ramps..

True though, if you keep the standard 3k/mile oil changes up to snuff with NOT using FRAM/PENNZ oil filters (Wix,Purolaters, NAPA, AMSOIL, and K&M filters are more preferred) in using dino oils, motors do get healthy lives as they age ..

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-30-2007, 03:52 AM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
I traded in a '92 Ranger with 160,000 miles on it

Thats not very many miles on an engine by todays standards... engines are built tighter to begin with because of modern production methods being superior over old methods and they will normally last longer than they used to. I have 320,000 on the original engine in my service van and it has no problem passing emmissions every year. We also had a Toyota Van that went nearly a half million miles... it wouldn't pass emissions one year but the switch to synthetic got us two more years of service and passing emissions before the tranny finally failed.

Oh and I forgot to mention that the use of synthetic fluids in your vehicle also lessens our dependency on importing foreign oil.... Synthetics are created not pumped out of the ground.... and they end up creating far less waste oils since they last longer. So if you care about conserving the use of fossil oils and not polluting the environment then then use of synthetics is another wise step.

Here is an interesting write up by a mechanical engineer on Synthetic vs. Fossil Oil... Aside from the fact that Synthetics have superior additives over fossil oils and lubricate your engine immediately upon start up at all temperatures I also noticed that the conclusion kinda blows Mike's short hop around town theory out of the water... as his short hops around town are considered to be an "extreme driving condition".

"Making Sense of Synthetic Lubricants

Don Stevens

Suncoast Region – PCA, BMWCCA

All of us have seen countless ads telling us to change our engine oil every 3000 miles. Some of us have watched the infomercials showing cars driving on the racetrack with allegedly no oil or engines running on a stand while the host pours sand and gravel over an exposed valve train. Virtually all of the lube shops have some kind of magic additive that they will say you need. What are we to believe? Or more relevant, what is right for you? In becoming an Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants dealer in 1998 I have done a great deal of research on all kinds of lubricants and additives and in this article I will share the facts about synthetic oils, petroleum based oils, and additives so that you can make an informed decision about what is right for your cars.

Oil Classifications.

There are two systems for oil classification. The SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) viscosity grade and the API (American Petroleum Institute) classification that designates the type of engines for which the oil was designed. The SAE viscosity grade is known as the "W" number when classifying oils. Most oils on the shelf today are multi-viscosity such as 10W30 or 20W50. In general, the lower the first number, the better the oil will perform in extremely cold conditions. Conversely, the higher the second number the better the oil will protect at higher temperatures. If you were driving to Minnesota in the winter you would want the lowest number you could find like a 0W30. In our Florida climate however, a 10W40 or a 20W50 would be a better choice. The API designation is typically an "S" designation for gasoline engines and a "C" designation for diesel engines. Most of today’s oils carry an SH,CF or SJ,CF designation signifying that they are suitable for use in all gasoline or diesel automotive applications. Those of you with diesel trucks or motor homes should look for an API CG-4 rated oil. Which brand you buy is largely a matter of preference. Consumer Reports (6/97) found very few differences between major brands of oil and all with the above SAE and API designations performed fine in normal applications.

Synthetic vs. Petroleum based oils.

Synthetic oils were originally developed more than 50 years ago and became widely used in jet engines. Less than -120ºF ambient temperatures, 60000 shaft rpm, and 500º+F exhaust temperatures proved too much for conventional oils. Synthetics were created specifically to withstand these harsh conditions and to date every jet engine in the world uses synthetic lubricants. Amsoil introduced the first synthetic oil for automotive use in 1972 and have continued to be at the leading edge of development ever since. Mobil-1, undoubtedly the most recognized name in synthetics, was introduced in 1976. Many companies have jumped on the bandwagon and have since released synthetic lubricants for automotive use and all are becoming increasingly popular for their superior lubricating properties, superior ability to flow at cold temperatures, and their ability to withstand high temperatures for extended periods of time. Several new cars including the Porsche 996 and the Chevrolet Corvette LT-1 are delivered with synthetic oil in the crankcase and require synthetic oil use throughout the life of the car.

There are two primary differences between synthetic oils and conventional petroleum oils. These are the base stock or liquid that makes up the volume of the oil, and the additive package. There are additives (not to be confused with over the counter additives which will be discussed later) in all oils that enhance the wear resistance properties of the oil, enhance the ability of the oil to neutralize acids and combustion by products, and provide corrosion protection for the engine’s internal surfaces. The amount and quality of these additives vary from one oil brand to another and this is a very significant factor in the ability of an oil to adequately protect your engine in all driving conditions. As a general rule of thumb, the cheaper the oil, the fewer additives it has and therefore, the less able it is to protect your engine.

There is one school of thought that suggests that the only difference in synthetic oils vs. petroleum oils is that the synthetics typically have a better additive package. This statement is only partially true. Synthetics almost always do have superior additives than petroleum oils. While this does add to the cost of the oil, it also enables the oil to last 3-5 times longer than conventional oil. The synthetic base stock however, is of paramount importance in the ability of a synthetic oil to flow at cold temperatures and withstand greater amounts of heat over significantly longer periods of time. Petroleum base stock molecules are long carbon chains that are sensitive to stress and heat. Additionally, various paraffins that are contained in all petroleum products regardless of how well refined they are, cause oil to jell like a syrup at extremely cold temperatures. At the other end of the temperature spectrum, high engine temperatures and heavy loads (as typically found in towing or racetrack applications) cause these chains to break down and the base stock actually boils off causing a change of viscosity and the formulation of sludge. This can happen at temperatures as low as 230º F and by 250º F many petroleum oils are suffering significant breakdown. Synthetic oils on the other hand are engineered specifically to provide all the lubricating properties that natural oil possesses, but none of the cold thickening or hot thinning properties of petroleum oil. Synthetics are made up of uniformly shaped molecules with shorter carbon chains which are much more resistant to heat and stress. Synthetics can withstand temperatures of 300ºF all day long and still protect your engine. In fact the American Society of Testing Materials (ASTM) standard wear resistance tests are conducted at 302º F. In this test synthetic lubricants far out perform petroleum lubricants by factor of four to one and greater.

Oil temperatures of 230ºF to 250ºF are not at all uncommon in driver’s education track conditions, particularly in early 911s with no front coolers or the marginally effective "trombone" oil coolers. These temperatures are also fairly common in air-cooled engines in summer time stop and go traffic with the A/C on. Further, temperatures on the cylinder walls and in turbos are often over 450° F for short periods of time. Liquid cooled cars can also have extremely high oil temperatures even though the water temperature may be normal. I observed this first hand several years ago in a race car where the water temperature stayed right on 210ºF while the oil temperature fluctuated between 240º F and as high as 280º F depending on how hard the car was driven. Needless to say, this particular car was running synthetic oil and remarkably ran about 50 hrs. between rebuilds with no significant wear. Further, Winston Cup star Rusty Wallace was recently quoted after the 2000 twin 125 races in Daytona that his car was running a little hot with water temperature at 230° and oil temperature at 260° F. Rusty’s team is sponsored by Mobil 1 and I would think it is safe to say that they use the product.

The point of the above paragraphs is quite simply that synthetic oils have a much wider operating temperature range, by design, than petroleum oils.

Off The Shelf Additives

There are countless over the counter oil additives on the market, as there have been for a number of years. In recent years a number of companies have appeared on the scene with huge national television advertising campaigns, racecar sponsorship, and more, all designed to make the consumer believe that the products really work and you are doing yourself a favor by adding these to your car. The fact is that these products are not necessary, do very little to help your engine, and in many cases may actually do more harm than good. The major car companies do not endorse any of these products and in fact your owner’s manual will undoubtedly advise you to avoid them.

Consumers Reports did a test (10/98) in an attempt to verify, or rebuke, one company’s ad which claimed that their product "bonded" to the engines moving parts forming a protective barrier against wear. The ad claimed that their test car ran without any oil all over Southern California, in stop and go traffic, with the air on, for 4 hours and 40 minutes. The ad also claimed that the only reason the driver stopped was to get something to eat. Pretty unbelievable. In an attempt to prove or disprove the viability of the ad, Consumer Reports tested two Chevrolet Caprices, both with identical zero time rebuilt V6 engines. Both cars were broken in with normal petroleum oil per the manufacturer’s recommendations. The oil and filter were then changed with one of the cars receiving the prescribed dose of this magic additive. Both cars were then driven for about 100 miles, allegedly long enough for this magical bonding to occur, and the oil subsequently drained. Both were then driven again, now with empty crankcases, in normal traffic to see how long they would last. Interestingly both engines failed, almost simultaneously, after about 14 minutes of driving thus proving the claims of the additive manufacturer to be nonsense. Consumer Reports notified the FTC of the test and their results and the manufacturer was subsequently forced to stop running the ad.

There are some over the counter additives that contain Teflon or PTFE. Once again the ads claim that the Teflon bonds to the internal working parts of the engine forming a slippery surface (like your Teflon frying pan) and therefore reducing wear. Fundamental laws of Physics prove that such claims are impossible, as the temperatures in internal combustion engines (200º-250ºF) are insufficient for any bonding to occur. Further, independent oil analysis labs have observed that the suspended Teflon particles actually tend to accumulate the microscopic metals that are normal in engine oil formulating much larger, and potentially much more harmful, deposits in engines than would normally occur if straight motor oil had been used. In some cases, the oil filters became clogged, oil pressures dropped across the filter and oil analysis showed significantly more wear than oil alone. Similar to the previous situation, the FTC challenged the makers of products with PTFE on their claims of "coating of PTFE" and "reduced engine wear" based again on Consumer Reports findings of "no discernible benefits" from use of the product. The makers of these products agreed with the FTC in a settlement to stop using the above phrases in their ads.

Economics of Synthetics vs. Petroleum Lubricants

All of the manufacturers of synthetic oil tout the benefits of reduced wear, more horsepower, lower operating temperatures, and improved fuel mileage. All of these benefits are derivatives of better cold flow characteristics and higher levels of friction reducing additives that are found in synthetic oils. I can confirm better cold driving characteristics, increased fuel mileage of nearly 10%, noticeably lower operating temperatures, better heat dissipation capability, and long term high temperature stability based on my own experience with synthetic lubricants. Are these benefits enough, however, to persuade average drivers to give up their trusted petroleum oils and pay the extra price for synthetics? Enthusiasts, yes. Average drivers, perhaps not. However, synthetic lubricants can endure extended drain intervals, which is a major consideration toward justification of the higher costs. This benefit is not widely promoted by the major oil producers most likely because they want you to pay a premium for their synthetic oils every 3000 miles just like their regular oils. Most companies don’t bother to tell you that synthetic oils are capable of going 25,000 miles or more without significant breakdown. One customer told me he drove his Toyota more than 50000 miles (with filter changes every 10000 miles) before oil analysis results told him it was time for a change. It is not uncommon for over the road truckers to go several hundred thousand miles between synthetic oil changes but it should also be noted that most are equipped with finer oil filtration devices than most passenger cars. The short trips and stop and go city driving that most of do is much tougher on motor oil than over the road highway driving. In fact, frequent short trips (2 miles or less) and stop and go city driving is considered by some raters as extreme and our cars need increased protection. Fortunately, we can achieve the superior protection and the economic benefits of synthetic oils while staying within the recommendations of our car manufacturers.

Consider the following economic argument. If you change your oil every 3000 miles at a quick lube center at an average price of $23.00 per change, you spend $115.00 over 15000 miles. Most synthetic oil changes cost about $50.00 (much less if you do it yourself) on which you can drive 7500 miles very safely (a 7500 mile interval is within virtually all manufacturers recommendations). Over the same 15000 miles, only two oil changes are required for an investment of $100.00. A shop could charge up to $57.50 and it is still a break-even proposition, plus you put a superior product in your car and are receiving the additional benefits that synthetic lubricants can provide. I typically drive about 12000 miles between changes with a filter change and oil analysis at 6000. Even after 12000 miles oil analysis advises that the oil is "suitable for continued use" and typically the wear metals are less than conventional oil after 3000 miles. In fact in a test performed by Popular Mechanics some years ago, oil analysis showed in New York City taxicabs that there is typically less oil breakdown and less wear metals in Amsoil 10W40 synthetic oil after 60000 miles (albeit with filter changes every 6000 miles) vs. conventional 10W40 oil after 3000 miles. As an added benefit, less waste oil is being put back into the environment. A true win-win proposition.

Conclusion

Most major brand name petroleum oils perform adequately provided your driving conditions are normal and provided you change the oil regularly (remember, short city trips, driver’s ed track events, dusty conditions, and towing are considered extreme). Over the counter additives have been proven to be of little to no benefit, often do more harm than good, and are a waste of money regardless of what you drive and how you drive it. Finally, for those of you who drive your vehicle hard, tow a trailer, drive very short distances, sit idling and in stop & go traffic for long periods, live in a cold climate and/or if your car runs hot, quality synthetic motor oil, synthetic gear lube, and synthetic automatic transmission fluid is a wise investment that will provide the additional protection you require as well as last thousands of miles longer than conventional lubricants.

Don Stevens is a mechanical engineering graduate of the Ohio State University and has been a member of the Suncoast Region of the PCA and BMWCCA for 14 years. He is also a 10-year veteran road racer/driving instructor with hundreds of hours of seat time and several endurance race wins to his credit. For more information on lubricants, oil analysis or for a free catalog on the complete line of Amsoil products, please call or e-mail the author at 727-724-3431 or P911sc44@hotmail.com. Also, you can go right to the author’s website at www.lubedealer.com/dstevens for more info or to buy some product."

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 08-30-2007, 01:27 PM:

The other maintenance tip I learnt through trial and error is to always replace spark plugs annually, regardless of the claimed service interval. When I got my last-but-one car, it started misfiring shortly afterwards. After checking the HT leads and air filter, the plugs were the next suspect. The first three were a pig to get out (whoever put them in had stupidly overtightened them), and when it came to the fourth, the thread had rusted in so badly that the ceramic core came away in the plug socket, leaving the steel outer part in the cylinder head! Thankfully I was able to jam a long screwdriver in it and loosen the thread by levering it, but it was very close run thing.

Now I don't care how many miles they say the plugs will last - I always replace them each year, and smear some copper grease in the plug threads before screwing them in. £15 a year is a small price to pay to insure against a cylinder head job.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 08-30-2007, 03:43 PM:

quote: "da' Article"
Oil temperatures of 230ºF to 250ºF are not at all uncommon in driver’s education track conditions, particularly in early 911s

WTH? When I took driver's ed I got to drive a Cavalier... the 911 wasn't even an option!

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-30-2007, 05:15 PM:

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
Thats not very many miles on an engine by todays standards...

I know that....it was still running fine when I traded it in. I just had "new car fever" and liked the new Ranger, so I traded it in.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 09-07-2007, 01:57 PM:

UPDATE:
An even bigger FUCK YOU to this store.

I just got a call back from their insurance adjuster and...

THEIR POLICY WAS FUCKING CANCELLED ALREADY AND THEY HAVE NO COVERAGE WITH THAT COMPANY!

Guess we'll be calling up a friend from my parent's church that's a lawyer.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 09-09-2007, 03:50 PM:

Mark,

Are there any other synthetics besides Mobil 1, which is what I use? And what synthetic do you recommend for intermittents and would this also apply to splash bath oil in Simplex XLs? What about sound heads?