quote: Andrew McCrea

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On IBM's website, it says it can recognize 512mb of RAM, maximum, but the guy at the computer store said Windows 98 could only recognize that much. As it is, the computer only recognizes 148GB of my hard drive, but its nowhere near half full, anyways.

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The recognizing only 148GB is normal. It is a calculation thing. HDD manufacturers choose to count in decimal, while computers use a binary number system. So...

160GB = 160,000,000,000 bytes

Divide that by 1024 3 times it will = 149GB

As far as the memory just don't use the 128mb since your motherboard can not recognize anything above that.
 

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Posted by Andrew McCrea (Member # 674) on 09-09-2007, 01:38 AM:
 
Well, does this motherboard need to have two sticks of RAM in it at a time? If I just have the 512mb in, it still does the black screen with the three beeps when turned on and doesn't boot up.

Does BIOS need to be changed or updated?
 

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Posted by Anslem Rayburn (Member # 1267) on 09-09-2007, 01:57 AM:
 
According to the user manual on the link you provided, you can only install up to 256MB RAM into each socket, for a total of 512MB.

Joe: According to what I have seen, 64-bit versions of Windows Vista Business, Enterprise, and Ultimate can handle up to 128GB.
 

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Posted by Andrew McCrea (Member # 674) on 09-09-2007, 01:59 AM:
 
OK, that helps, so here's one more dilemma: The receipt says "FINAL SALE! NO RETURNS! NO EXCHANGES!"... Should I go say that the guy told me it would work, it doesn't, and I need two sticks of 256 each? Do I have a case, for an exchange, even if I didn't know it would be a final sale?
 

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Posted by Anslem Rayburn (Member # 1267) on 09-09-2007, 02:01 AM:
 
I would think an honest business would exchange for 2 sticks (you may have to pay a little extra), but that is definitely something you would have to talk to them about and would be case by case.
 

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Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 09-09-2007, 02:06 AM:
 
Also, you sometimes need to update your motherboard's BIOS in order for it to recognise memory sticks of a larger capacity than were the norm when the motherboard was made.
 

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Posted by Andrew McCrea (Member # 674) on 09-09-2007, 02:37 AM:
 
I'm pretty sure that IBM provides a BIOS update for Windows XP... How do you go about installing a new BIOS? I tried to do it on my laptop to no avail.
 

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Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 09-09-2007, 02:52 AM:
 
Here is a link to some info...

PCMechanic
 

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Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 09-09-2007, 05:33 AM:
 
Some of the more modern motherboard BIOSs have a more user-friendly way of updating than is described in this article. For example, the one in my last PC would flash in an update from the BIOS interface itself, and you didn't have to boot into DOS to do it. It also had a safety feature that refused to flash in a BIOS that wasn't written for that specific model of motherboard. But for a motherboard the age of Andrew's, I'd guess that it would be a case of booting a DOS floppy and then running the flash utility.

As a general rule, BIOS updates are issued very frequently during the first couple of years after a model of motherboard goes on sale, and then the frequency drops off. It's worth keeping an eye on the motherboard manufacturer's web page to see when new versions come out, and if each new version fixes a bug or adds functionality that directly affects you. I tend to only update if it does.
 

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Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 09-09-2007, 08:21 AM:
 
Also make surre the ram speed is cmpatable with the mother board that can be more of an issue on old mb
 

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Posted by Anslem Rayburn (Member # 1267) on 09-09-2007, 08:33 AM:
 
If you are able to run Windows XP on this system, I wouldn't update anything. I haven't seen anything that says that a BIOS update will allow the Intel 810E chipset (which this pc uses, according to tech specs) to utilize more than 512MB (256MB x 2). I think you have just hit a technology ceiling in terms of your system.

Edited to add: Also realize that updating your BIOS may be risky and can kill the motherboard. I don't think this system has any real safeguards, and anything from using the wrong BIOS to a power failure would brick the system. Just learn to live within it's means or buy a new computer, that's my opinion.
 

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Posted by Damien Taylor (Member # 4255) on 09-09-2007, 09:33 AM:
 
That not understanding large drives is a bios thing, flashing a mobo bios is a pain in the bum, but its worth it. Its good to see people putting legacy systems to use, one can never have too many servers.
 

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Posted by Joel N. Weber II (Member # 3530) on 09-09-2007, 10:56 AM:
 
If he said it would work fine, that might be an implied warranty that might overrule what the receipt says. Of course, it would be hard to prove a verbal promise in court (unless you have someone else as a witness, perhaps), and I'm not entirely clear on how implied warranties work, legally, in the US (I think it varies by state), much less Canada.

However, if he's an honest businessperson, he'll probably be willing to exchange it, and if not, hopefully you'll have the good sense to take your future business elsewhere (which may well cost him more in the long run than whatever profit he might get from not making the exchange in the short term).

32 bit operating systems can only address 4GB. Moreover, some of that 4GB space is used for things other than RAM. One of my computers will only let me use 3.3 GB because the other .7GB or so is reserved by the motherboard for video cards etc that I don't have. I could switch to a 64 bit OS and use the whole 4GB, but storing those extra 64 bit numbers instead of using 32 bit numbers might use up a good chunk of the extra RAM that would become useable that way.

Edit: the hard drive size thing may have something to do with how some people think that a gigabyte is 2^30 bytes (probably including your operating system), and others believe a gigabyte is 10^9 bytes (including drive manufacturers). And as for having servers, you most certainly can have too many servers; most rooms that were built 5-10 years ago to hold servers used by businesses do not have enough air conditioning to keep up with all the servers you might try to pack into them these days, and electricity can cost a lot of money, too; consolidating functionality into newer, more powerful servers can reduce the electric bill substatially (though it's not entirely clear to me to what extent the electricity savings really pay for the new hardware).
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 09-09-2007, 04:29 PM:
 
Under 32-bit WindowsXP or Windows2000, the operating system will recognize up to a total maximum of 4GB. Further, installed applications will only recognize up to 2GB.

True 64-bit operating systems will recognize a far higher amount of RAM (and use it more efficiently). Unfortunately, you only get real benefits when the installed applications are compiled in 64-bit code. The vast majority of commercially sold computer applications are still only 32-bit. That even goes for nearly all graphics programs. None of Adobe's applications are compiled in 64-bit code on either Mac or PC platforms. The only 64-bit graphics applications you'll find are 3D modeling and animation applications and certain high end compositing applications.

It's probably going to be another couple of years or so before many applications are recompiled into 64-bit code. It may be even longer than that before you see most applications converted into multi-threaded code (for use with multiple CPUs or CPUs with multiple cores).

With that stated, don't break your back chasing after 64-bit stuff. For now it causes more problems than it solves.
 

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Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 09-09-2007, 05:36 PM:
 
There's also the /3GB switch that can be inserted in your boot.ini file, which is supposed to allocate up to 3GB for an application that can take advantage of it (instead of the normal 2GB). Note that some application developers specifically say "Don't do that" (Perforce Server for Win32 platforms being one).

/3GB Switch

Don't be messing with boot.ini though unless you know what you're doing.
 

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Posted by Joel N. Weber II (Member # 3530) on 09-09-2007, 06:28 PM:
 
There's also a hybrid mode known as PAE (Physical Address Extensions) which lets your operating system see a larger-than-32-bit address space, but each program only sees a 32 bit address space. I believe that Windows Server 2003 and Linux, at least, support it (NetBSD seems to make a point of rather intentionally not supporting it), and it may be useful if you're running lots of programs on a single server all at once.

PAE mode is also really useful for VMware servers, where the physical server may well have many times more RAM than fits into a 32 bit address space, but most or all of the running guest OSes may be in 32 bit mode with relatively modest amounts of RAM per virtual machine.

At least one of my coworkers has some software running on Linux that requires more than a 32 bit address space to run effectively, and we also end up having to provide 64 bit builds for a number of customers, so whether 64 bit software is worth the effort depends on awful lot on what you're doing. However, if you don't know that you need 64 bit support, you probably don't need 64 bit support. And at least in the pre-Vista world, 1-2GB typically is plenty for most desktop computers, and fits very nicely into 32 bits.
 

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Posted by Kevin Raisler (Member # 1761) on 09-09-2007, 07:48 PM:
 
Andrew,

It has always been my experience that 98 and ME don't behave well with more than 256 MB of memory installed. most computers of that era had around 32 to 128 of ram. you shouldn't need the extra ram unless you run memory intensive programs like photoshop or do lots of video editing. which was never good under 98 or ME for that matter. Since you upgraded to xp home (memory hog) you will have to find out if your mobo will handle the ram if not i would reinstall 98 and just run legacy software.
 

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Posted by Bob Healey (Member # 1003) on 09-09-2007, 09:47 PM:
 
Microsoft explicitly disables PAE for its 32 bit non-server OS offerings. I think they do it so people can't try to run servers on the cheaper OS's.
 

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Posted by Andrew McCrea (Member # 674) on 09-11-2007, 06:55 PM:
 
So, I went to the computer store, and they gladly exchanged the 512mb RAM for 2 sticks of 256mb of RAM, with no extra cost.

One problem: When I turn the computer on, it makes the four beeps again and won't boot up.

Any suggestions?
 

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Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 09-12-2007, 12:44 AM:
 
Sad thing about some manufacturers, esp IBM with the older systems (Compaq was horrible with this and experienced the same crisis when my friend tried to do the same memory upgrade thing..) is that some momboards are horribly proprietary based..in short, you need to buy THEIR memory (which their momboards needs RAM in paired value to work), HDD's, BIOS upgrades, et.al. to make the thing run correctly and as you want to. Called: "you buy their products, they expect you to run back to them for service" - no questions asked since they expect the nominal customer to be computer illiterate (like they think that the CD tray is a coffeecup holder...)

I'd yank the momboard out of that case and start over with a new momboard and go from there..and make sure that the PS is at least a 500w PS if you're gonna turn that new rebuild into a screamer..

..been there, done that a few times..

-Monte
 

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Posted by Anslem Rayburn (Member # 1267) on 09-12-2007, 01:02 AM:
 
According to on-line memory configurators, PC133 NON-ECC RAM rated at 3.3v are the modules for this computer. Check and see if that is what you bought, if not that could be the problem.
 

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Posted by Thomas Pitt (Member # 4322) on 09-12-2007, 01:31 AM:
 
Changing RAM isn't as simple as taking out RAM sticks and putting new ones in. After doing that, you need to tell the machine that it has the new memory. Although most modern machines use their BIOS setup to do this (you'll see a message on the screen saying that the RAM size has changed and offering to go into setup), older machines would require you to change DIP switches or jumpers. If you don't, the board will do an error beep code when you turn it on.

Also, if I remember correctly, there are certain sizes of RAM that a motherboard will accept. If you install RAM so that the total is between those finite values, the board will refuse to accept the RAM. For example, if you install a 128MB stick and a 16MB stick (making 144MB), that's not in the list of acceptable values and the board won't accept it.
 

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Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 09-12-2007, 02:03 AM:
 
...and if you've got a dual channel RAM facility, you sometimes have to have exactly the same type of memory stick in slots 1 & 3, or 2 & 4, or else it won't recognise some of the memory, or even refuse to work at all.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 09-12-2007, 02:11 AM:
 

quote: Thomas Pitt

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Changing RAM isn't as simple as taking out RAM sticks and putting new ones in.

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quote: Joe Redifer

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It's always been that simple for me.

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Intel Coppermine Pentium III 733MHz (256KB), 64MB, 10GB 5400RPM IDE HDD, PCI Microtower (3x4), Intel 810e, Accton 10/100 Ethernet, Windows 98SE

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