Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Need help with web database application

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Posted by Oscar Neundorfer (Member # 458) on 09-12-2007, 12:38 PM:

I need some help from all the web/database gurus on the forum. I am about to build a web site for a client which will stretch my abilities to the breaking point. In other words, I have a LOT to learn, and a short time to learn it. I will be creating a real estate website with a search function for real estate listings.

I can go with Linux hosting and MySQL, or Windows hosting with MS SQL Server 2005. If I go with the Linux hosting, I will be using PHP to create the search engine. For Windows hosting, I will be using ASP to create the search engine.

In consideration of my limited abilities to program in either PHP or ASP, what would you recommend I go with in terms of being easy to learn and to use?

Also, do you have opinions on whether MySQL or MS SQL Server 2005 would be better suited to my needs.

Lastly, the database needs to be updated daily. I want this to be done automatically. It involves downloading a delimited text file with all the database info, extracting the data I need for my purposes, and inserting the data into the web database. With the Linux hosting, I can do CRON jobs, but I am not certain how to do scheduled tasks with the Windows hosting. In fact, how to accomplish the automatic daily update part of the project is still very unclear to me at this point.

I am determined to get this all to work, and any advice and helpful hints would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Oscar Neundorfer

Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 09-12-2007, 01:01 PM:

I am very anti-Microsoft. However, if you are approaching this project from a 'learn as you go' point of view - Microsoft (MS SQL)would probably be the best way to go. It's more user friendly and it takes less knowledge to operate and to use.

{On the flip side}

I am a Linux person all the way - I'd personally would do the research to learn MySQL just to say I didn't have to use a Microsoft product to build the site. But that's just me and my attitude of sticking to the man {the man being Bill Gates}.

[Roll Eyes]

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 09-12-2007, 01:47 PM:

There is an excellent excellent book on MySQL called "MySQL" by Paul DuBoise. Find it and buy it if you don't have it. It will help you immensely in learning SQL syntax and other MySQL stuff. (The SQL syntax part will even help you if you decide to use MS SQL.) The latest version that I have has a purple cover and covers version 5.

Other than that, I agree with Dennis that MS may be easier to learn. I'm not sure though because I've never messed with the .Net visual development stuff. I develop everything with Dreamweaver, but I don't use any of the "visual drag and drop" features in it. All of the programming I do is coding by hand. Dreamweaver makes it easier by color coding the code so it's easier to read, and basically organizes my files for me and shows me what the page sort of looks like before I push it up.

Some say that PHP is not a very good language to program in, or that it lends itself to sloppy programming, which is bull crap. You can write excellent bullet proof code in PHP if you know what you're doing, and you can write sloppy code if you don't know what you're doing. But then, both of those statements are true of any language.

I have written an automatic MySQL updater program in PHP before. It basically looked at a comma delimited file, read it partially to determine what MySQL table it belonged to, and then updated that table with the data in the file. After that it sent an email stating that an update was just completed, and finally archived the file. It could also identify ZIP files, unzip them, and update MySQL with the resulting files in order of dependency. I thought it was pretty cool.

Good luck!

Posted by Paer Hoegberg (Member # 3133) on 09-12-2007, 02:04 PM:

Do you have any programming experience?

If you are familiar with Visual Basic, go for ASP.
If you are familiar with C/C++ and/or Java/Javascript, PHP is the choice.

(You can use PHP on Windows also).

My database choice are MySQL, easy to use, and maintain (with phpMyAdmin).
I find MS SQL more complex to learn and to use (but have more features).

I use PHP and MySQL on Linux and Windows.

(Other databases i have used are PostgreSQL and SQLite, both are usable with PHP).

Posted by Oscar Neundorfer (Member # 458) on 09-12-2007, 10:07 PM:

Thanks much for the tips so far.

Paer, I do have some programming experience in C. I have also played with PHP a bit learning the basics of how to store and retrieve data in a MySQL database, and I have had some success, although I will need to learn much more to do what I want to do.

Mark, I am already pretty familiar with SQL and also have some good books on the subject. I think the actual SQL part will be easy for me. Integrating it into PHP will be a bit more challenging.

I also hand code all the HTML for the websites I develop. I use Notepad ++ as my editor. It offers syntax color coding and is a very easy program to use. I just look at the results in a browser to see what the page looks like. I can go back and forth quickly making changes until I have the code tweaked just like I want it.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 09-13-2007, 01:21 AM:

If you're going to manage the server this runs on and you don't have hands on access to it (or at least a serial/KVM-over-IP console) I'd avoid Windows Server, especially if you can't put it behind a separate firewall.

Managing the Windows Server 2003 install that this forum runs on is a pain in the ass (compared to managing Windows Server 2003 installs in house) due to it being leased from EV1, now The Planet. Every server outtage we've had in the last 4 years has been due to Windows choking on an update and becoming as unresponsive as (and as stupid as) the "tech" support folks at EV1. Unless you want to pay a lot more for a good/knowledgable company to host with you're better off with a *nix server. It's a lot less likely to end up in a state where you can't fix it remotely.

Whatever you go with, look for hosting that has automated reboots rather than manual reboots (manual reboots can take hours->days with some places).

Posted by Ken Russell (Member # 2491) on 09-13-2007, 07:48 AM:

The last time I took on such an order I went to http://msdn.microsoft.com/express and downloaded all the development tools for free including SQL Server Express and built up the system. I found it to provide many tutorials and excellent help systems.

Ken

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 09-13-2007, 09:05 AM:

Great... if you already know SQL, that's half of the battle. Getting PHP to talk to MySQL is pretty straight forward. Look at www.php.net for lots of examples on how to do stuff in MySQL. If you decide on PHP/MySQL and you have any specific questions, I can try to help you out. PM me if you're interested, and I'll send you my email address.

Posted by Oscar Neundorfer (Member # 458) on 09-13-2007, 11:36 PM:

Thanks for all the tips and advice so far. Mark, thanks for the offer of help with PHP/MySQL. I may be yelling for help as soon as I start doing a deep dive into this.

At this point, I think I will be doing PHP/MySQL on Linux.