Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Home network help (wireless and wired routers)

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Posted by Andrew McCrea (Member # 674) on 11-24-2007, 05:48 PM:

Hey everyone! You've all been great with every computer question I've had, so here's another one for you:

I live on a 40 acre ranch; some computers receive a wireless signal from the house to the barn over 300 feet. Here's a diagram of our network:

Here are my questions for you... The wireless computers can't see the computers or printer attached to the "family server" (which we use to save copies of files to for safety).

How can I make it so that the wireless computers can use the back-up server or the server printer? There's gotta be a way!

Computers vary with Windows 2000 (server), XP (laptop and sister), and Vista Home Premium (mine).

Wired router is D-Link EBR-2310 and wireless is Belkin N1 or something along those lines.

All participation in this thread is appreciated!

Posted by Thomas Pitt (Member # 4322) on 11-24-2007, 06:11 PM:

There's only two things it could be, how I see it.

The wireless computers might not have been configured to use the same domain and/or workgroup as the wired machines. Also check that the 'subnet' the wireless computers are set up to use is the same as the subnet mask for the wired network. Being on a different domain or workgroup will deny you direct access to the other computers, though you may still be able to get to it via the Network Browser.
Being on a different subnet will still allow you to access the Internet, but you won't be able to access any of the other computers.

The other possibility is the router configuration. Many routers have an option to allow or disallow wired and wireless clients access to the WAN (Internet) or LAN (local). For example, you could have wired clients able to access the servers and the Internet, but wireless clients only allowed to access the Internet.
Some routers come with this setup as default - i.e. wireless clients can access the Internet, but no other computers or servers on the wired network. There should be an option in the router setup to change it and allow wireless clients to access the LAN.

My router at home is set up so that both wired and wireless clients can access both the Internet and servers on the LAN. However, I've set it so that only a wired client can access the router administration - helps protect against people getting in by wi-fi and reconfiguring everything!

Edit: I had a closer look at your diagram. It seems that the modem is connected to the wireless router, and then the wireless router is connected to the wired router. That's not really the best way to do it - you should connect the modem directly to the 'wired' router's WAN port, and then connect the WAN port of the wireless router to one of the wired router's LAN ports. That's how I had my system set up temporarily to increase wireless coverage, before I got a better router [Wink]

It's possible one of the router firewalls is blocking traffic from the wireless to the server, because it thinks you're trying to get into the network from the Internet (hacking)!

Posted by Jason Burroughs (Member # 68) on 11-24-2007, 09:15 PM:

Most simple way to solve the problem is repalce your "wired router" with a switch. 100Mbps switches can be found rather cheaply.

A home "router" implies that a firewall is also employed. Without getting into complicated firewall rules and traffic directing, your best bet is a switch. All the devices will need to be on the same subnet (easy if you're using DHCP already).

Posted by Andrew McCrea (Member # 674) on 11-24-2007, 09:46 PM:

Thanks!

I reconfigured it so that the wired router has the internet input, and that the wireless router is put in LAN1.

The wireless router needs to be in the basement window so that it can travel far.

So far, its all working pretty well... Sometimes, the internet won't work on a computer.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 11-25-2007, 04:21 AM:

quote: Jason Burroughs
A home "router" implies that a firewall is also employed. Without getting into complicated firewall rules and traffic directing, your best bet is a switch. All the devices will need to be on the same subnet (easy if you're using DHCP already).

Unless his router is actually based on a hub design internally, his router is a switch so buying a switch at this point wouldn't be worthwhile.

And a device being a router in no way implies that it has a firewall.

Posted by David Zylstra (Member # 4230) on 11-26-2007, 09:50 AM:

In looking at the original diagram the network was actually set up pretty good in regards to security - i.e. having the wired router after the wireless protected the house network from any wireless hackers.

If the "sometimes the Internet doesn't work on a computer" is only on the wireless it could be due to the double NAT that is happening by running through 2 routers.

If you are OK with the current config of the wireless router being after the wired one I'd suggest switching to a true access point instead of the router type wireless - this may help the network access between PCs run smoother.

Whatever you do just make the wireless as secure as possible - i.e. turn on the highest level of securty your wireless nodes can handle. (but being on a 40 acre ranch you may not need to worry too much about someone trying to access your wireless network - you'd probably see them as they are trying to get close enough to be in range)

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 11-26-2007, 11:52 AM:

If it works now, fine.
It's not a good idea to cascade routers as in your diagram. You should have one router connected to the modem WAN port, and use hubs/switches attached to the router LAN port(s) to add more network ports.
The router works by "tricking" the modem into thinking all your computers are actually one, using NAT (network address translation) to identify which computer to route the various incoming data from the internet WAN to. Whenyou have a bunch of computers combined using NAT into one ethernet cable it should go directly to the internet, not be combined with other computers again through another router using NAT again.
This generally causes problems, either the second-laevel computers cannot get internet access or the two layers can't see each other.
Most routers ahve setup pages where you can turn off the routing process and turn them into simple switches, if one of tyours has this feature it should be activated and then that router should be the second level one connected to the first level router which has the mdem connected.
Most network sharing problems are from configuration problems with the individual computers. Make sure all have the same workgroup name in the Microsoft Networking setup, the setup varies between OS versions but you need "client for microsoft network" installed on every computer and the workgroup name therin the same. Make sure the folders and printers you want to share have sharing turned on. Make sure "internet connection sharing" is turned off on all computers connected.
Sometimes (thanks, microsoft) even though all is apparently correct the printer or files you want are just not there. I try turning off everything and then on again - modem first, router next - computers last. Sometimes this works. Sacrificing a chicken or small goat may help as well.

Posted by Andrew McCrea (Member # 674) on 12-01-2007, 09:36 AM:

Thanks for all th help everyone!

One main reason for needing this was for equal printer access (and the server is great for moving files around to another computer here).

Sometimes my laptop and my parent's laptop just can't pick up the internet unless the computer is reset... I'm supposing there's some sort of IP conflict here.

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 12-01-2007, 11:08 AM:

I would use only one router. The wireless routers can provide four or more ports for wired computers and have wireless for other wireless computers. I would then put an extended wireless antana on it to help the signal reach the longer distances. Key in an encryption key for security and your done. This will also prevent a lot of headachs with conection issues since it will only be using one IP address for all computers to connect to the internet.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 12-01-2007, 12:46 PM:

quote: Andrew McCrea
Sometimes my laptop and my parent's laptop just can't pick up the internet unless the computer is reset... I'm supposing there's some sort of IP conflict here.

There are a couple ways you'd get an IP conflict:
1) Since you're using 2 routers it's possible that the 2 of them both are running DHCP servers and they overlap in what IPs they are handing out

2) Computer A gets a certain IP address with a lease of some amount of time. So up until that time expires, it keeps that IP. Then you reset your router and so to the router no leases have been given out, then you turn on another computer that gets the same IP the other computer has been using.