This is topic Christie HD8K -- D.O.A. in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 12-10-2007, 04:33 PM:
 
Just got a brand new digital projector: Christie HD8K.
Brand new out of the box.

Installed & hooked up as per instructions.

Fans run. Displays light up. Buttons function.
Does not strike lamp.

Receive Error Code: 27 (Can not strike lamp.)

Replaced lamp with spare. Repeat startup.
Still does not strike lamp. Error code 27 again.

Christie says they will be sending a new unit via expedited shipping but we have a critical test tomorrow morning, PLUS our first public gig is on Saturday.

Was just wondering if anybody had some ideas.

T.I.A.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-10-2007, 10:43 PM:
 
Not really.... could be anything. The error code certainly WILL mean something to the service techs. I believe it is based on the new Norwegian built projector. Its a very nice unit but I think the lamps are pretty pricy.

Mark
 

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 12-10-2007, 11:09 PM:
 
Error Code #27 = "Can Not Strike Lamp"
That's what the manual says.

I didn't figure there was much that could be done. Just thought I'd ask.

Yes, the lamps are pricy... Perkin Elmer! Says right on them!

They are cute, though. Nice little module about 6" cube. Slips right in. Takes about 90 seconds to change one. (Assuming it's cool.)

I'd say most of the cost is in the module. It's ALL heat sink!

Well, I guess this means we're going to miss our on-line test with N.C.M. tomorrow.
But, I'll be able to kludge the test and call in our number so that we're not left out of the loop. We'll just have to install the projector and test it ourselves.

Our first gig is Saturday. We don't have much time. There's a movie on Wed. and another gig on Fri. That means we basically have tomorrow and Thursday to get this thing in gear!

Oh, well... Christie promised they'd have another one here, tomorrow. Let's hope THAT one works!
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-10-2007, 11:47 PM:
 
Call and get the tracking number from them so you know when it's going to arrive.... It might be early enough to save your day...

Mark
 

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Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 12-11-2007, 12:12 AM:
 
What do you think the chances of TWO lamps being dead in the water? I know I am just guessing here based on the film lamphouse world, but wouldn't there be some kind of safety interlocks that could be stuck or not properly engaged? Fan vanes and the like banged out of whack in transit? I don't know, I would be worrying about the odds it being a run of bad bulbs, no?

Oh, and don't you just love all those "error" messages that tell you NOTHING. Microsoft is famous for it; hey, we can SEE the bulb won't strike...we don't need a code for to tell us that. How bout a paragraph or two with schematics pop up detailing the possible CAUSES why there is a Error 27.

Well, Randy, best of luck...hope you've got a show on the screen on Saturday. Let us know what happens....meantime, look for that air flow vane!
 

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 12-11-2007, 12:32 AM:
 
The last test they ran was from 9:00 - 10:00 AM E.T. then again for 9:00 Central. Ended up running until well after 11:00 E.T.

So... Assuming the thing gets here by 9:30 AM or 10:00 at the latest, we MIGHT have it running in time to catch the end of the test. (Cross fingers!)

I gave a quick look inside the cavity where the lamp goes but didn't see anything. Since that is a direct portal to the heart of the light engine I didn't want to mess with anything inside there and risk being accused of causing the problem by putting my hands in there. Plus, I figured if a visual inspection didn't reveal any obvious problems, I'll be damned if I'm letting my boss pay $40K+ just for me to fix

There are error codes for "Lamp Interlock Open" (Code# 26) and for "Lamp Airflow Low" (Code #21) but there is an even MORE brain damaged error code, "Lamp Turned Off Unexpectedly" (Code #28)

Now THERE's one for Mr. Obvious!
 

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Posted by Brian Michael Weidemann (Member # 2243) on 12-11-2007, 04:34 AM:
 
Yep, not much of a "code". It's a plain and simple, blaringly obvious, description.

I've witnessed poor performance with Perkin Elmer lamps. The only 15k IMAX lamp I've seen explode was a Perkin Elmer. And we had a few bad ones in a row. Of course, that was years ago. But I remember we were displeased with P.E. and went quickly back to Ushio. Of course, these are a different type of lamp completely that you're dealin' with. Maybe it was just their 15k models that (literally) blew.
 

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Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 12-11-2007, 08:05 AM:
 
I'm confused. How would it be obvious (to you) that the lamp turned off unexpectedly (to the projector)? Without the blaringly obvious description how would you know that the projector itself hadn't decided that it should turn the lamp off (which wouldn't be unexpectedly to the projector, which is what the error codes are about)?

Perkin Elmer xenon projection lamps are craptastic.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-11-2007, 08:32 AM:
 
Be wary... LTI has also joined in the small DLP projector lamp market as well. Supposedly they are making them here in the USA. They are right up there with the Perkin Elmer stuff too. I am surprised that Christie isn't suppling their own USHIO lamps for this projector...

Mark
 

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Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 12-11-2007, 10:56 AM:
 
I think P&E has some patents regarding the xenon with heat sink modules....which makes them a different breed from the original cinema bulbs. Kodak engineered a cinema lamphouse using a 1600 watt module about 10 years ago that never went to market.
Phillips who got out of the cinema xenon market 20+ years ago are back in.....they recently bought LTI. There has been some management shuffle and possible new products with Phillip's input..
 

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 12-11-2007, 07:39 PM:
 
Okay! We got the projector installed and working today!
We missed the test feed only by a few minutes but there was some material at the end of the show that we did get to see. So, the projector works!

The setup will be used for more than just satellite feeds so we have to hook the projector up to a seamless switcher. Guess what?
The SWITCHER is DOA too!

But since we don't necessarily need it for Saturday's show, we're not going to sweat it. We're just hooking it up to the satellite receiver directly. When the new one arrives in a few days, we'll install that and finish off all the rest of the system.

The picture looks pretty nice... But you can still tell it's video.

quote: Daryl C. W. O'Shea

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I'm confused. How would it be obvious (to you) that the lamp turned off unexpectedly (to the projector)?

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quote: Randy Stankey

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Well, if you see the lamp suddenly go out, do you need the projector to tell you that?

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What he's getting at is that the error could be a stock one for something the projector doesn't even understand.

Like if you're writing software you give specific error codes for things that shouldn't go wrong but your software knows what happened at that point. Then there's a generic error code for any other type of error that your software didn't expect.
 

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 12-11-2007, 11:26 PM:
 
Sorry, man! I'm really friggin' beat!

Been putting in extra hours to get this gig off the ground and I haven't gotten much rest.

But look at the bright side! Hauling cinder blocks up the side of the building on a rope (to weight the non-penn dish mount) sure helped me get lots of exercise!
 

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Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 12-12-2007, 07:26 AM:
 
I've heard of several digital projectors not working right out of the box. Nothing too major; a module is swapped or some other minor thing is done and then they are OK. Growing pains as manufacturer's ramp up production I suppose....
 

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 12-12-2007, 08:10 AM:
 
As we were going through the motions of testing and troubleshooting our projector, I began to hear similar stories.

The conference center at our local G.E. plant installed a projector similar to ours, only the next model smaller. I was told it took them three tries to get one that works.

We have a play date already booked for the thing. Tickets have already been sold so there's NO WAY we could have afforded to take that long to get ours working.

When I posted the lead message to this thread I was wondering if anybody would have some stories to tell about this projector but I didn't want to come right out and spill the question.

The projector works well, now. Obviously, we won't get a chance to burn it in and brightness/color balance it before the show but I really doubt anybody but me will even notice.

One thing I will say is that this thing is a monster when it comes to power. It does require its own 220 volt circuit. If you have to install one of these babies in any place that doesn't already have its own power, such as a projection booth where the breaker panel is only an average of a few feet away, don't even ask questions. Just run a new 220 volt circuit. Put it on its own separate breaker. Don't even try to dick around with the power supply. Once we got the problem with the projector sorted out, we had a few questions about the power requirements to run this beast.

Our theater is actually an addition on to an older building. Technically, it's an addition to an addition. Consequently, we have some fairly screwed up wiring. The place where we were GOING to plug it in turned out to be unsuitable. There was power there but we didn't know exactly where the wires ran, nor did we know whether there was anything else on the same branch that would cause problems. (I'm sure you guys know what its like to work in old or redesigned buildings with F-ed up power.)

Long story short, we decided to run a new circuit just for the projector. We figured, after all the shit we've been through, we don't need any more hassles.

If you read the manual, it gives the power requirements but it makes no mention of anything else. Considering all the idiots out there who decide they want to install digital projectors, I think that there should be a notation in the manual to the effect: "We recommend this projector be connected to its own, separate power source."

A few cents worth of ink and paper could potentially save a lot of people a lot of trouble later on!
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-12-2007, 08:20 AM:
 

quote: Randy Stankey

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Well, if you see the lamp suddenly go out, do you need the projector to tell you that?

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Yes! If you're monitoring all your projectors from a central location as BYU does. Some 800 video projectors. Then a tech can go to a certain classroom and change the lamp.

Mark
 

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 12-12-2007, 08:29 AM:
 
800 projectors!?

Fuckin' Meow!
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-12-2007, 08:57 AM:
 
It is actually quite common for a university setting to have that sort of monitoring for the A/V equipment. Both the projector manufactuers as well as A/V equipment support companies like Extron make devices to do this even easier.

In fact, these devices (basically gives not only Ethernet capability to non-Ethernet devices) but full control of them too.

So, you can have the projectors (or whatever) email the appropriate office when it is time to reorder a particular lamp, or when it is time to clean the filters or change the lamp...you name it.

You could have a professor call the A/V office of a non-functioning system and the A/V tech can possibly fix the problem from the office much faster then actually dispatching a tech to the classroom and disturbing the class. One generally doesn't have much time to troubleshoot once the class has started.

You can also use them as a security system in that if the Ethernet connection is lost or the connection with the controlled device is lost, security can be dispatched to investigate if it is a theft in progress or merely a power malfunction. Yes, yes, A/V is getting more sophisticated.

As to the HD8K, it needs 10A 200/240 power. It isn't too hard to figure out. In fact, it has that label right on the back by the power connector.

As to the HD8K, you are not too likely to see it show up in Cinemas other than as a rental projector. It is not DCinema compliant and prices out at about what a DCinema projector costs (close enough). In an A/V application it is handy in that it is relatively small and has the A/V type inputs. DCinema only has HDSDI (2x) and DVI (2x) for inputs standard.

There is also the HD6K, HD7K, HD5K, HD12K and HD18K (the model number tells you the lumen rating x1000).

Steve
 

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Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 12-12-2007, 12:45 PM:
 

quote: Richard Fowler

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Phillips who got out of the cinema xenon market 20+ years ago are back in.....they recently bought LTI. There has been some management shuffle and possible new products with Phillip's input..

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quote: Randy

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Perkin Elmer

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That name always makes me laugh. It conjures up images of the pig on Green Acres.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-12-2007, 02:21 PM:
 
Yes, its true that Sanyo will sell its projector to most anyone for rebranding, I don't think this is the case for the HD series from Christie...first of, it is a 3-chip 2K DLP projector (all of the HD series). Via Electrohome, Christie got a jump start in the DLP field whereas Sanyo has just started to dable in DLP.

The HD series is quite interesting in that they are not all that big for their lumen output and they are not all that expensive compared to what devices like them cost just a couple of years ago. For a rental/AV house, they have to be something high on the want list.

Steve
 

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 12-12-2007, 02:29 PM:
 
The manual specifies the power the projector needs. But we had some questions like I outlined above. Not everybody who installs one of these will be a professional installer. I didn't think it was too much to ask to make the power requirements crystal clear. It would be a simple solution without bowing to the lowest common denominator idiot. Wouldn't it?

I thought Scott was right. From what I understood, the Christie projector is OEM by Sanyo. Same thing with the Eiki.

For what it's worth, they are stamped "Made in Canada."

The networking you talk about is part of what we're going to be doing when we get the Extron switcher hooked up. I have thrown a line over to the audio/computer rack from the Component Engineering automation. I've set it up so that, when "Cue 7" (piece of tape all the way across the film, tripping all three detectors simultaneously) passes the FM-35 it will send a signal to the switcher and projector to shut down. That way we can run out trailers (and ads ) on the screen using the video system. When it's time for the movie to start, the operator just presses the <START> button and everything else happens by magic.

If everything works the way we've been promised, it will be pretty slick!
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-15-2007, 08:47 PM:
 
I was told that the Christies that are related to Sanyo only use the Sanyo Light Engine... the rest is manufactured by Christie. The Scandanavian Company I was thinking of is Projection Design... Christie may have teamed up with them on the smaller 3-chip DLP's.

Mark
 

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 12-16-2007, 04:05 PM:
 
Hey! Just so you guys know... The broadcast went very well yesterday!

The projector worked just as it was supposed to. It produced a very nice, bright picture on our 13 foot tall screen. In fact, I'd say it was a little TOO bright.

I think I'm going to lower the brightness and turn on the automatic brightness control then save that as a setting. When we do movies or simulcasts again, I'll use that setting. When we do lectures that have to be done under stage light, I'll leave it at full power. That way we won't have to dim the stage lights to see the screen.

Thanks for all your advice!

Now, if I can only talk them into replacing the Smart MOD-IIB sound processor with a nice Dolby unit, we'd be all set!
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-17-2007, 03:29 AM:
 
While I can't speak to all Christie LCD projectors but the LW25, LW40 and LW300 are 100% Sanyo projectors....known as the PLV-70, PLV-WF10 and PLV-80 respectively. The only thing Christie about them is the silk-screen on the case and the title screen during warm up. You can also look at their parts books...the numbers are all "610" Sanyo numbers rather than traditional Christie numbers.

As for the DLP stuff...I'm sure that is Electrohome in origin...hence the "Made in Canada" labels.
 

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 12-17-2007, 10:53 AM:
 
http://www.electrohome.com/products/branded_products.htm

About half way down the page...
 

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