Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: LP'S & other records masterd in magnetic 35 or 70 mm

This is topic LP'S & other records masterd in magnetic 35 or 70 mm in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Matthew Bailey (Member # 601) on 01-24-2008, 04:53 AM:

Not certain if to leave this topic here on in Film Yak.
Anyone have any LP's,or Cd releases of albums or other records mastered in magnetic 35 or 70 mm? I've seen some online & some of the mastering processes used 3 track Westrex dubbers used for some such records but for some people who didn't have a magnetic film dubber or couldn't afford any, did some who mastered a record using magnetic film use a 35 or 35/70 projector with a mag penthouse & do the described mastering on that manner?

Posted by Jeff Stricker (Member # 224) on 01-24-2008, 05:41 AM:

Back in the '60s a company named Command Records realeased a number of titles that were originally mastered on 35mm magnetic film. One of the first titles was "Stereo 35mm". I used to own a copy of the lp, but alas, its lost to the ages. Another company "Everest" also used 35mm mastering --- I think mostly classical stuff.

Posted by Rick Raskin (Member # 1561) on 01-24-2008, 06:29 AM:

I may still have a copy of "Stereo 35mm" and a few of the other releases. They are in boxes under the steps waiting transfer to CD (Right!).

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 01-24-2008, 07:10 AM:

The idea, valid or not so valid, was that all things being equal, recordings mastered on 35mm fullcoat should have better dynamic range with lower signal-to-noise than conventional magnetic tape and tape recorders at the time, those supposedly better specs due to the speed at which the fullcoat travels and because of the larger heads and tracks. I always thought that was much more a marketing gimmic than any real sound improvement.

I had a few of the LPs that claimed the "audiophile" sound due to 35mm film, but found they were no better or no worse than LPs produced on standard tape decks. Especially those were beginning to incorporate Dolby NR recording electronics. In fact, I found one of the LPs had sound that was mastered much too hot -- I could hear the damn clipping. So be it an Ampex tape deck or a Magnatech dubber, if the guy at the mixing console is high on pot or just untalented -- it won't matter; he can still make the final product sound like crap. It's a law of nature....holds just as true today be it CDs or DVDs.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 01-24-2008, 07:21 AM:

At Bletchley Park, the Wartime codebreaking place near London, where the Projected Picture Trust have much of their collection, and a small cinema, there is also a computer museum. There is some sort of early computer there that uses 35mm mag film for data storage, rather than tape.

I've also seen a very strange sound recorder, which was exhibited at various shows around the country by somebody who had a collection of various old sound recording devices. This one recorded by cutting a grrove in 35mm film The film was a few hundred feet long, and was spliced into an endless loop. The cutter head slowly moved across the width of the film, so that many grooves were cut side by side. I've never seen this thing actually working, so I don't know how fast the film ran, or how long it could record, but it should have been able to do much longer than either a 78 r.p.m. disk, or optical recording on a roll of film, the only real alternatives at the time. I can see several problems; you couldn't edit the recording, the film would have to slide over itself in the coil, as with the old Technicolor 8mm loop projectors in the '60s and '70s, and I wouldn't like to think about the effect of a splice going through.

Posted by Peter Brown (Member # 3272) on 01-24-2008, 11:35 AM:

Yes, I've got a bunch of LPs (and the re-released CDs) from Mercury Living Presence who did a lot of their recording on 35mm. Quite stunning sound, but their recording engineer, Bob Fine was very close to being a genius...

Here are some details:

http://www.deccaclassics.com/music/mercurylivingpresence/about.html

Posted by Jonathan M. Crist (Member # 413) on 01-24-2008, 11:52 AM:

I have several of the Command albums which were also released on 4 Track Reel-To-Reel Tape. The playback of those tapes is stunning even today.

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 01-24-2008, 01:21 PM:

A long time ago when I was into high-end audio, I had an LP mastered from 35mm mag. I was not impressed. Maybe it was just a bad example.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-24-2008, 02:11 PM:

Yea, "Madam of Mercury" Wilma Cozart and her 'future' Husband Bob Fine took Mercury to the limit with the introduction of three track, 35mm magnetic film recordings using Fairchild 35mm audio recorders. Then, George Piros did an absolute job using his great lathe techniques.

If anyone has any Merc Living Presense stereo vinyls (and even Command records vinyls since Cozart,Fine and Piros left Merc after Philips bought Merc out in 1962, with Fine and Piros going over to Enoch Light's new Command label), look in the deadwax area in the runout area and you'll see either a "P17" or a "P23". These pressings originated from either of these two favorite lathes of Piros.

(on the flip side, "Greatest Story Ever Told, - the on site mic recordings - were recorded in 3 track 35mm using the same Fairchild Recorders..)

Some "Fine" reading here about that empire from Chicago.

quote: Jonathan M. Crist
I have several of the Command albums which were also released on 4 Track Reel-To-Reel Tape. The playback of those tapes is stunning even today.

Prob why your open reels, duped at 7.5ips using a 4/1 transfer speed from those AMPEX 3200 duplicators from the production master, sounds good as the do-with the 35mm mastering that Bob Fine used in those Command sessions. -Monte

p.s. yes, this should have placed in the "Yak" section

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 01-24-2008, 02:25 PM:

quote: Monte L Fullmer
Bob Fine took Mercury to the limit with the introduction of three track, 35mm magnetic film recordings using Fairchild 35mm audio recorders.

Is that the same Bob Fine that was behind Perspecta?

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-24-2008, 03:30 PM:

It could be since the two Fines did work with Fairchild products, but as for the definite answer, I can't answer that one.

Posted by Fred Georges (Member # 505) on 01-24-2008, 05:44 PM:

Yup, One & the same. You can google C.Robert Fine to get the skinny. Met Him in the 70's. Didn't have many kind words to say about "Perspecta" Even though He was a co-inventor & promoter. [Big Grin]