Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: BleuPrint Paper

This is topic BleuPrint Paper in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-18-2008, 07:36 PM:

Ok here is an odd request
I was looking at some very old blue prints aka 1928 vintage
they were produced on the ferrocyanide paper of the day and water developed (blue background with white line work) and they were as clear as the day they were printed
currently when I get prints run they are diazo blueline that are ammonia developed and they fade quickly in sunlight and get dirty on jobsites

Is the old type paper still available

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 02-18-2008, 08:01 PM:

I have doubts you can buy real blue print paper anymore. It could be over OSHA rules and such.

Most architectural and engineering firms that make large prints use plotters and other electronic methods for duplicating plans. Likewise, that's about all you buy for "blue print" purposes - plotter paper.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-18-2008, 08:06 PM:

I have a encad cadjet plotter and a gaf diazo blueline printer but often wondered if the "old technology was still available comercially
In a book on drafting (pub 1869) that was in a great uncles estate has the recipe for making ferrocyanide paper (shich i did once in school as an experiment)

Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 02-18-2008, 08:28 PM:

The problem with classic blueprint paper is that the raw paper had a very limited shelf life and usually had to be used within days of production. They are extremely durable...I had a rehab project of a cinema in we relied on a 50+ year old set of prints for reference; they looked like they where made the day before. In my new office I still have my "antique" drafting table / Vemco arm, which has banged out hundreds of drawings,to update older drawings...but after I dust it off, aline the arm and sheets, the AutoCad usually gets used [Smile]

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-18-2008, 08:38 PM:

Richard my acad drafting station sits on the old drafting table [Smile]

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 02-18-2008, 08:55 PM:

I still have some of the original 1930 "blue paper" blueprints of the Roxy here. Outside of a few tears, they are in good condition. Thought about getting one framed or something, but the lines on them are so "fine" that it's nearly impossible to tell what it is unless you really know what to look for. They're really cool though.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-18-2008, 09:16 PM:

Everything around here is black lines on white paper. There is a reprographics place a couple of blocks from our shop that has a large "copy machine like unit" that makes the prints in any size up to 30X36 right from the acad. file. Its so inexpensive to have them made that owning a plotter is not really worth the hassle and expense... There is no problem with fade or anything else on them either.

Mark

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 02-19-2008, 12:38 AM:

My house was built in 1980 and I have the original Blueprints...They are in great condition. (Blue lines on white paper w/ blue tints and splotches now and then)

This thread sorta reminds me of the long lost LaRue house blueprints from the film "Mousehunt". [beer]

Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 02-19-2008, 08:10 AM:

Usually the splotches where cause by dirty master drafting paper since many of the ammonia based systems shined a light through the paper for exposure. I was very good at selecting transparent tape for "paste up" revision of masters for a clean repro. [Cool]

I visited a major cinema equipment distributor in Europe around 10 years ago I expected autocad by their staff....but they where doing the same manual paste up due to comfort level [Smile]

Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 02-19-2008, 12:19 PM:

My day job here at the office is Civil Engineering. We occasionally still get in old "blue prints" (white lines on blue paper), but everything going out of our office is black lines on white paper. We do have an HP Designjet 800 series plotter - but we only use that machine for check prints and really small jobs. On most of our projects, we print from Microstation (Cad program) directly to a PDF file, then email the PDF set to the local printer who runs them out on a 24x36 Xerox machine. It's cheaper both in costs and time to send them out to be printed as opposed to doing them in house.

We do still have an old ammonia based diazo machine in the back room, but we haven't even turned it on in a year or two.

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 02-20-2008, 08:01 AM:

Never used actual ‘blueprints,’ but have used ammonia based “Diazo” process for many years. Where I am now, there are drawings back to the 1940’s, and we use a Diazo machine to copy them. At a previous place I worked, there was also a ‘flatbed’ exposure table which would also suck the air from under the lid to ensure the paper laid flat. You used to be able to buy papers with different sensitivities, but many ‘grades’ have been discontinued. Nothing like getting a paper cut with sensitized paper!

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 02-20-2008, 05:09 PM:

When in High School, one of the jobs I worked was for an engineering firm. My job was to take an original hand-drawn vellum and make copies via the “Diazo” process.

I always thought it was cool that the process was photographic. The yellow emusion "photographic" diazo paper came wrapped in a thick black plastic bag sealed to keep the light from exposing the paper.

You'd place the original vellum in contact with the diazo paper and run it thru the machine to expose it under UV light. The 1st time it would have a yellow-line image of the original drawing. Then put that copy thru again for the "ammonia developing" to get the blue line copy on white paper.

Of course the ammonia stunk to high heaven! YIKES!

Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 02-21-2008, 11:41 AM:

At the other office I used to work at in Nashville, we used to hire high school kids in the summer months as "interns", and they basically just ran prints all day like Phil described. We once had a kid who decided he'd change the ammonia bottle by himself, and about killed us all. As he was changing out the bottles he dropped the new bottle off of the top of the print machine, it hit the floor busted open and spilled almost the entire gallon jug in the floor of the print room. We did have an exhaust hood over the machine, but it wasn't enough to handle that much ammonia. The whole building stunk like ammonia for a week.

Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 02-21-2008, 01:26 PM:

Barry,

That odor also has "diaper" implications. [Roll Eyes]

This is the reason for the tightly sealed packaging of the unexposed paper. There is enough fume residue in the room to fog improperly stored paper.

We also did color Diazo films in that process for use on overhead projectors in our classrooms. Exposure required a lot of UV light. Sometimes we used the arc lamp for burning printing plates to expose lots of cells at one time.

KEN