Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Who is worse: Aerosmith or KISS?

This is topic Who is worse: Aerosmith or KISS? in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-01-2008, 02:20 AM:

I can't decide!

Posted by Brian Michael Weidemann (Member # 2243) on 07-01-2008, 02:30 AM:

Off the top of my head, I could name many more Aerosmith songs than KISS songs, so KISS must be worse.

Aerosmith didn't spend most of its career in make-up, so KISS must be worse.

Aerosmith has five guys and KISS has four, and five is better than four, so KISS must be worse.

I vote that KISS must be worse.

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 07-01-2008, 02:54 AM:

If yer talkin' music, I like some tunes by both.

If you're talking people, KISS gets the award for the worst.

While I was at Iwerks, I was involved with negotiating with KISS to make an 870 film of their live shows...Gene Simmons was total a$$hole! ...demanded to waited on hand and foot. Needless to say, no deal was struck.

The other band members were civil and cool.

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 07-01-2008, 04:30 AM:

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 07-01-2008, 05:58 AM:

Gene's mother wishes she'd done a lot differently, I'd imagine.

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 07-01-2008, 06:05 AM:

Don't forget Aerosmith has a Rockin Roller Coaster in Disney World. That has to count for something.

I vote KISS.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 07-01-2008, 10:13 AM:

I would say Gene Simmons' mother is probably very proud of him, multi-millionaire that he is.

As for my vote: Kiss are better showman. Aerosmith has better music. As for their music in more recent years, they suck equally.

Kiss: All of their best material is in their first few albums.

Aerosmith: Has made some good songs throughout their career, although they've mostly sucked in recent years.

I would say Kiss gets the edge for being worse, since they do not have a (very cool, by the way) roller coaster.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 07-01-2008, 10:47 AM:

Which is worse? Steven Tyler's lips? Or Gene Simmons' tongue?

That IS a tough call! [Eek!]

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 07-01-2008, 11:49 AM:

I like both bands. I have seen Aerosmith twice and Kiss five times. Great shows by both bands. Both bands toured together a few years ago. The thing I don't like about Kiss now is the fact that Ace and Peter are no longer in the band. So the two members they have now, who are just as good if not better, have to wear the original members make up. Either let them come up with their own make up or drop the make up all together.

Posted by Mike Heenan (Member # 392) on 07-01-2008, 11:57 AM:

quote: Mark
Don't forget Aerosmith has a Rockin Roller Coaster in Disney World. That has to count for something.

Yes but KISS has Kiss Kondoms, Kiss Koffins, Kiss Toilet Paper, Kiss Pencils, Kiss Tshirts, Kiss comic Books, Kiss movies (including that hilarious TV movie in the 70s), Kiss Toys, and much much more.... Gene gives the fanboys what they want. I vote for Aerosmith.

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 07-01-2008, 12:01 PM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
(very cool, by the way)

I knew Mike and I would agree on something at some point! [thumbsup]

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 07-01-2008, 06:12 PM:

quote: Mike Heenan
Kiss Kondoms, Kiss Koffins, Kiss Toilet Paper, Kiss Pencils, Kiss Tshirts, Kiss comic Books, Kiss movies

Heenan: If you went to the gift shop at the Rock 'n Roller Coaster, you would see that Aerosmith has a similar array of junk. (Well, except the Koffins.) [Cool]

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 07-01-2008, 06:19 PM:

Yeah, but the KISS KONDOMS are "Tongue Lubricated"...

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 07-01-2008, 08:48 PM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
I would say Gene Simmons' mother is probably very proud of him, multi-millionaire that he is.

As he is by all counts a complete asshole, I think I'd be prouder of my children if they were decent human beings and broke.

quote: Mike Heenan
Yes but KISS has Kiss Kondoms, Kiss Koffins, Kiss Toilet Paper, Kiss Pencils, Kiss Tshirts, Kiss comic Books, Kiss movies (including that hilarious TV movie in the 70s), Kiss Toys, and much much more.... Gene gives the fanboys what they want. I vote for Aerosmith.

You took your time getting here. [Wink]

Posted by Mike Heenan (Member # 392) on 07-01-2008, 09:22 PM:

I was just getting started... let us not forget Kiss The Pinball Game... Kiss The Pinball playstation game (now does redifer still hate them?)... KISS the Coffeehouse... KISS The Lunchbox, KISS the men's and women's cologne/perfume, bodywash, soap, deodorant, and shaving Cream, KISS the Zippo Lighter, KISS the Visa Card... and KISS the Baseball Card.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiss_merchandising

I think the only jealous at this point is Yogurt. [Big Grin]

Posted by Allison Parsons (Member # 2728) on 07-01-2008, 09:45 PM:

quote: Phil Hill
Yeah, but the KISS KONDOMS are "Tongue Lubricated"...

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-02-2008, 01:23 AM:

quote: John Wilson
As he is by all counts a complete asshole, I think I'd be prouder of my children if they were decent human beings and broke.

Where have you been? You can't be proud of a person unless they are successful with the $$$.

quote: Mike Heenan
Kiss The Pinball playstation game (now does redifer still hate them?)

Damn straight. They can't even make as good of a game as Aerosmith who has Revolution X in the arcades as well as many different consoles (sucks hardcore all around) as well as their own edition of Guitar Hero which promises to suck even more than the regular Guitar Hero.

Posted by William T. Parr (Member # 677) on 07-02-2008, 08:51 AM:

And just think ol' Chaim Witz.... I mean Gene Simmons was a Mathematics teacher in the NY city public schools prior to joining KISS.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 07-02-2008, 09:49 AM:

I remember seeing Gene Simmons on the "Tomorrow" show back in the 70s, and it came out that he was a film collector! He didn't specify 16 or 35, but it was film... this was before home video.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 07-02-2008, 12:09 PM:

I got the KISS video game "Psycho Circus" for like $2 at an EB games store and only because a coworker had randomly said that the game was surprisingly good (and it happened to be in the discount rack).

The funny thing is, the game has NOTHING to do with the band other than the fact that early on you happen to walk by a car that's playing "Rock and Roll All Night."

Posted by Todd McCracken (Member # 4718) on 07-02-2008, 02:55 PM:

KISS, though they did make the classic KISS meets the phantom of the park

Posted by Stephen Brown (Member # 292) on 07-02-2008, 06:13 PM:

I remember that movie as Attack of the Phantoms. Only reason is that is was the first time I went solo in a booth (20min reels, carbon arcs).

I'd have to say Kiss is worse. Even though Steve Tyler from Aerosmith is one ugly looking person he still managed to have a hot daughter....

Posted by Mike Heenan (Member # 392) on 07-02-2008, 06:42 PM:

Attack of the Phantoms was finally released to DVD here in the states on KISSology vol 2, it's pretty hilarious, I haven't seen the US version in ages but it's supposed to be different. Also Gene's daughter is pretty hot herself; it's funny how both of the dads are pretty ugly dudes but they have hot daughters.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-02-2008, 07:47 PM:

quote: Stephen Brown
Even though Steve Tyler from Aerosmith is one ugly looking person he still managed to have a hot daughter....

Eehhh... She looks decent to good from a distance at certain angles. I think the thing that really turns me off is that I can see the Steve Tyler resemblance.

Posted by Chad Souder (Member # 343) on 07-02-2008, 08:02 PM:

This is a no brainer:

You never see anyone dress up as Aerosmith for Halloween.

Kiss had more than one person that sang so it wasn't the same bass-mouthed skeleton on vocals every song.

What the hell was "Dude Looks Like A Lady" about?

Kiss remade a Petra song once and made it sound really, really good.

Aerosmith needed Run DMC to make "Walk This Way" sound good.

I once got a girl named Beth to, ...well, ...let's just say she didn't really listen to the lyrics and liked having it played for her.

That's all. Aerosmith is much, much worse...

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 07-02-2008, 08:33 PM:

You were making good points until:

quote: Chad Souder
Aerosmith needed Run DMC to make "Walk This Way" sound good.

Walk This Way sounded good until Run-DMC ruined it.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 07-02-2008, 08:44 PM:

quote: Chad Souder
What the hell was "Dude Looks Like A Lady" about?

It's about a guy who gets mistaken for being a lady.

The chorus is:
(That, that) Dude looks like a lady

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-02-2008, 11:10 PM:

I thought it was about ALL glam-rock bands.

Posted by Mike Heenan (Member # 392) on 07-02-2008, 11:30 PM:

Here's another thought... KISS "discovered" Aerosmith and Van Halen... so that's another nail in the Aerosmith coffin.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 07-02-2008, 11:31 PM:

quote: Joe Redifer
I thought it was about ALL glam-rock bands.

Touché

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 07-03-2008, 12:28 AM:

'The hottest band in the world: KISS', became big when I was a sophomore in high school. At the time, I couldn't understand their appeal, but I grew to like them several years later. Note how most of their songs, however, were only one or two lines repeated over and over. It sold.

KISS definitely had the best act - and the best marketing.

Anyone remember Gene Simmons acting debut (sans KISS persona) as the heavy in RUNAWAY, with Tom Selleck (1984)? He gave an exceptional performance in that picture.

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 07-03-2008, 05:18 AM:

Yeah, but the robot beat him for most human performance at the Sci-Fi Oscars.

[Razz]

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-03-2008, 07:50 AM:

If it wasn't for KISS, that classic movie Detroit Rock City would have never been made. That alone makes KISS the better band.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 07-03-2008, 01:50 PM:

quote: Mike Heenan
KISS "discovered" Aerosmith

I'm not sure what you mean by this - Aerosmith was around four or five years before the first Kiss album came out.

I actually thought Kiss was just a fluke loser act until I saw them in concert. That was back in the day when I would go to any concert, just to go to a concert. I was blown away by their showmanship and became a fan at that point. I still don't own any of their albums but their hits are decent party rock.

Aerosmith is the opposite for me - their music is better, so I have some of their albums, but I've never seen them live. However, I did go to a corporate party once at the Disney/MGM Studios, where we got to ride the Rock'n'Roller Coaster (and the Tower of Terror) as much as we wanted. That was cooler than all of the music from both bands.

Posted by Mike Heenan (Member # 392) on 07-03-2008, 04:13 PM:

Well I remember an article with Gene saying that Aerosmith used to open for KISS back when they first started up, so that's why I used discovered in quotes, as Gene made it seem like they were responsible for bringing Aerosmith out.

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 07-03-2008, 04:57 PM:

Actually, Kiss and Aerosmith started out around the same time. However, Aerosmith was having a hard time getting noticed and by Kiss's second album in 74 Kiss was headlining and Aerosmith was opening for them off and on for a couple of tours until 75 when Aerosmiths popularity grew large enough to headline their own tours.

Speaking of the Kissology DVD vol 2. I thought it was real funny how in the commentary the guy talking, an actor or something from the Attack of the Phantom of the park movie went on and on about Anthony Zerby and his concentration while walking down a side walk in a scene from the movie.

Posted by Michael Wheable (Member # 3327) on 07-13-2008, 09:30 AM:

Just got to see the "Paul Lynde Halloween Special" and along with the "Phantom" film, good band in that period but they couldn't have chosen worse TV shows to promote themselves

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 07-13-2008, 12:33 PM:

quote: Darryl Spicer
Actually, Kiss and Aerosmith started out around the same time.

Aerosmith was formed in 1970, and Kiss in 1973 - according to Wikipedia anyway.

A lot of people do think Aerosmith started just before the time they had their first hit, "Dream On," although that song was recorded several years before it actually became a hit.

There's yet another whole group of younger people who think Aerosmith started out with the hit "Dude Looks like a Lady," since the group had been off the charts (and presumed by some to be long gone) for a few years at that time. I remember a couple of teenagers in the store who were astonished to learn there was a whole group of albums that came before that hit.

Posted by Chad Souder (Member # 343) on 08-01-2008, 06:19 PM:

quote:
Well I remember an article with Gene saying that Aerosmith used to open for KISS back when they first started up,

Simmons takes credit for lots of things - some of which he may have actually been responsible for. I heard somewhere he copywrited OJ as a reference to orange juice, so he gets money when people say OJ on tv. It was something close to that, anyway. I know he used to take credit for inventing the "devil horns" hand sign that is a mainstay in metal, even though everyone know that was all Dio.

Kiss did a disco album once. That pretty much permanently voided their man cards. It's like trying to decide what's worse between cod liver oil and clam juice...

Posted by Pravin Ratnam (Member # 1417) on 08-01-2008, 07:40 PM:

I don't like too many KISS songs. I found maybe 2 or 3 of their hits fun, but that's it. Aerosmith have sucked since the 90s big time, and Armageddon song and everything after that was their nadir. But they were great in their prime.
Aerosmith over KISS easily.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 08-02-2008, 08:49 AM:

quote: Chad Souder
so he gets money when people say OJ on tv

<sniiiiiff!> This just *smells* like urban legend. How would he get money from this? Just speaking of something that is copyrighted, does not automatically manufacture cash.

Posted by Benny Walters (Member # 4894) on 08-02-2008, 09:26 AM:

Aerosmith is better IMO, and the makers of Guitar Hero seem to agree as the latest installment of Guitar Hero is not titled IV but simply Aerosmith. All the music is Aerosmith, or bands that toured with and influenced them.

I like both bands though. I could think of lots of them that are worse than KISS.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-03-2008, 03:24 PM:

quote: Chad Souder
Kiss did a disco album once.

No, they did a disco single, "I Was Made for Lovin' You." The rest of that album, DYNASTY, was pretty much standard Kiss fare (although admittedly more pop-oriented at times).

Posted by Mike Heenan (Member # 392) on 08-03-2008, 11:56 PM:

That's one of their better songs I think, and one of the more popular ones I believe. Hey, if KISS can "go disco", we can't blame Aerosmith for "going rap" with Walk this Way. Nothing wrong with a little change here and there.

Posted by Chad Souder (Member # 343) on 08-06-2008, 04:29 PM:

The difference is, RUN DMC redid Walk This Way, "featuring Aerosmith" pretty much on their own, so you can't give Aerosmith much credit (or blame) for the finished product, other than their consent. Much like Anthrax redid "Bring The Noise" and then Public Enemy bought into the idea before laying down their own vocals. This, by the way, still stands as the best rap/metal song ever.

Kiss, on the other hand, made (at best) a disco-influenced album to make a buck when disco was the hot music of the day.

I agree with you Mike that a little change can be good. The Beatles (best band ever) changed their style almost every album. I just think disco sucks.

Posted by Chad Souder (Member # 343) on 08-06-2009, 03:14 PM:

Steven Tyler banged himself up pretty good when he fell from a stage at the Sturgis Rally. Reportedly he was dancing all around because the sound system crapped out. Sexagenarians shouldn't be pretending they can still rock.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-06-2009, 05:41 PM:

quote: Chad Souder
RUN DMC redid Walk This Way, "featuring Aerosmith" pretty much on their own

That song put Run-DMC on the map and put Aerosmith back on the map. If not for it, Run and co. would have been forever on the fringes and Aerosmith probably would have been dead before they got into rehab.

Nothing wrong with sexagenarians rocking. I plan to still be rocking in 8 years.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 08-06-2009, 05:58 PM:

quote: Chad Souder
Sexagenarians shouldn't be pretending they can still rock.

Ronnie James Dio seems to disagree. I've seen some vids of him performing in the last couple years and he sounded fantastic, especially considering that he's 67 now!

Posted by Chad Souder (Member # 343) on 08-06-2009, 07:13 PM:

OK, maybe I should just rephrase to say they shouldn't try moving around so much. When a James Hetfield burns his hand or a Layne Stayley breaks his foot, it's cool because they're younger rock stars and it's like a battle scar for them. When Steven Tyler does it now, it makes me think of Castro or some other senior falling where you think they may have really hurt themselves. Tyler having to use a wheelchair for his next show wouldn't be nearly as cool as when Staley did the same.

quote:
Ronnie James Dio seems to disagree. I've seen some vids of him performing in the last couple years and he sounded fantastic, especially considering that he's 67 now!

Dio, like Ozzy, Mick Jagger, Pete Townshend, etc., etc., is a shell of his former self on stage. They all still may sound pretty good, but the pure energy they brought to the concert is severely diminished. Dio was the man back in the day. It's just not believable that he or any of those others are the crazy rockers anymore. I respect their ability to take the stage and do the show, but it's kind of a sad for me to see wrinkly old men trying to recapture what they did 30 years ago. Recently I saw a Twisted Sister concert covered on TV. Now, I used to love Dee Snider and having listened to his radio show quite a bit, I think he has a tremendous knowledge of music and is a well-spoken, classy individual. That being said, when he puts the old makeup and costume on, it's laughable. I guess there are people willing to pay, though, which is another issue.

quote: Mike Blakesley
That song put Run-DMC on the map and put Aerosmith back on the map. If not for it, Run and co. would have been forever on the fringes and Aerosmith probably would have been dead before they got into rehab.

Depends on the map to which you are referring. Run-D.M.C. was already enjoying success in the hip hop scene and worked with Rick Rubin on the album featuring Walk This Way. True, that single shot them onto the mainstream pop map, but they were already considered influential by then.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-06-2009, 07:20 PM:

quote: Chad Souder
that single shot them onto the mainstream pop map, but they were already considered influential by then

There's a big difference though between being "influential in the hip-hop world" and selling millions of records to John Q Public.

The big thing about these old guys continuing to rock is...what else are they supposed to do? That's their JOB. Why should they be criticized for doing what they love when there are lots of people still willing to pay big bucks to see them? I've never seen Aerosmith but would like to...given recent events, I get the feeling there's not going to be too many more opportunities!

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 08-06-2009, 07:52 PM:

quote: Chad Souder
Dio, like Ozzy, Mick Jagger, Pete Townshend, etc., etc., is a shell of his former self on stage. They all still may sound pretty good, but the pure energy they brought to the concert is severely diminished. Dio was the man back in the day. It's just not believable that he or any of those others are the crazy rockers anymore.

Perhaps he's not a "crazy rocker" but I think that this shows that even at 65 he had quite a bit of energy put into the set. On the other hand, they've tuned the song down for him but I still think it sounds great all things considered.

Posted by Chad Souder (Member # 343) on 08-07-2009, 01:11 AM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
There's a big difference though between being "influential in the hip-hop world" and selling millions of records to John Q Public.

That's why I said it depends on the map. Many would consider two gold albums pretty darn good, which is what Run-D.M.C. had before Walk This Way was released as a single.

quote: Mike Blakesley
Why should they be criticized for doing what they love when there are lots of people still willing to pay big bucks to see them?

I'm certainly not criticizing them for cashing in on a revitalized money train, a train that was once derailed by Nirvana et al. People are willing to come buy tickets to see the same movies made over and over again, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised they buy tickets to see 20 or 30 year old songs performed. I understand the nostalgic value for some fans, but I wouldn't want to see Hank Aaron stand in the batter's box or Joe Frazier step in a ring now either. It would be depressing. I want to remember them as history does - in their prime, top of their game. It would be different for a different type of performer like a James Taylor or a Dolly Parton or a B.B. King. You didn't bang your head and pump your fist listening to them.

If I did go out of my way and spend some money to see an aging act perform old hits, it would be Iron Maiden. Bruce Dickinson is arguably the best rock front man ever.

quote: Chris Slycord
Perhaps he's not a "crazy rocker" but I think that this shows that even at 65 he had quite a bit of energy put into the set. On the other hand, they've tuned the song down for him but I still think it sounds great all things considered.

Dio can still definitely sing. I was surprised that they didn't reform as Black Sabbath. Apparently Tony Iommi was OK with using the name after kicking out Ozzy, but now wants to distinguish between the Ozzy band and the Dio band? Whatever works I guess.

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 08-07-2009, 02:57 AM:

quote: Chad Souder
Dio can still definitely sing. I was surprised that they didn't reform as Black Sabbath. Apparently Tony Iommi was OK with using the name after kicking out Ozzy, but now wants to distinguish between the Ozzy band and the Dio band? Whatever works I guess.

When Tony Iommi decided to reunite the Dio, Buttler and Appice lineup he made the decision not to use the Black Sabbath name because Ozzy was still considered a member of Black Sabbath after the original members reunited. He also decided that the Heaven & Hell lineup would not perform any Sabbath songs that were recorded with Ozzy.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 08-07-2009, 05:47 PM:

quote: Chad Souder
Steven Tyler banged himself up pretty good when he fell from a stage at the Sturgis Rally.

Man, I was going to BE at the Buffalo Chip for that concert, too, but didn't get to go to Sturgis! [Mad]

Damned divorce! [Mad]

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 08-08-2009, 12:41 AM:

I think Kiss is not as good a band as Aerosmith. The songwriting, musicianship is certainly better on Aerosmith's side. Overall popularity is a toss-up.

Aerosmith was already a headlining rock band long long before Run-DMC ever crossed paths with them. The whole idea that Run-DMC "made" Aerosmith is just plain retarded. It is ignorant of 1970's music history.

Also, I ABSOLUTELY HATE the version with Run-DMC doing their shit to that song. I'd rather listen to a cat strangle itself eating a pair of panty hose as listen to that late 1980's crap. The original Walk This Way is the only one I like and will ever tolerate.

Yeah, Kiss survived their strange disco-oriented thing. However, Aerosmith survived the Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band movie while it helped wreck the careers of the Bee Gees, Peter Frampton and the whole disco thing itself.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 08-08-2009, 09:00 AM:

That's because Aerosmith wasn't a disco act.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-08-2009, 09:14 AM:

But Frampton and the Bee Gees weren't disco acts either. The Bee Gees did maybe half a dozen "disco" songs out of the more than 200 tunes they recorded, and even those weren't exactly the cut'n'paste disco crapola that was prevalent during that era.

Sgt Pepper bombed because it was an extremely bad movie, no other reason. Aerosmith did a great, faithful rendition of "Come Together" which is one of the few bright spots in it.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 08-08-2009, 10:21 AM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
The original Walk This Way is the only one I like and will ever tolerate.

There should be a law. Certain songs should only be sung by certain artists.

Nobody but Don McLean should be allowed to sing "American Pie."
Madonna should be electrocuted for doing her shitty rendition of the song!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tEApCxSOXo

Nobody but Roberta Flack should be allowed to sing "Killing Me Softly."
Each of the Fugees should be individually drawn and quartered for this piece of shit version!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ighu4gGlaUE
(I MIGHT have liked this version if they had done it 100% a capella but that ricky-ticky drum track and the voice overdubs ruin it.)

Nobody but Aerosmith should be allowed to do "Walk this Way" unless they first consent to have their nuts strung up on Joe Perry's guitar while the song is being played doubletime.

Take consolation. You can say that Aerosmith invented rap way back in 1975, long before any of those other assholes were a even stain on their momma's underwear.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-08-2009, 11:17 AM:

Randy - that's one of the best posts ever on Film-Tech. Excuse me, I have to go puke to purge myself of thoughts of Madonna ruining "American Pie."

Posted by Geena Phillips (Member # 3726) on 08-08-2009, 11:31 AM:

You damn kids get off my lawn!

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 08-08-2009, 12:59 PM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
But Frampton and the Bee Gees weren't disco acts either.

Mike, in 1978, the Bee Gees were considered as disco as it comes. Saturday Night Fever, discotheques, that whole scene. And Frampton was high on the teeny-bopper bubble gum list.

Aerosmith was, and is, a heavily AOR station-played, head-banger act.

Don't get me wrong, The Bee Gees are near the top of my all-time favorites, and so is Aerosmith (never much cared for Frampton, though), but they became passe about that time. I don't for one minute agree that Sgt. Peppers killed their popularity, that just happened to be the start of "disco sucks" and it took the Bee Gees with them. Certainly, they kept on trucking and made a big come back. [Smile]

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 4784) on 08-08-2009, 02:02 PM:

Aerosmith on stage are boring. I've seen them a few times. It feels like I've been attending the same show over and over again.
Some of their older records are nice. And, indeed, they have both Rock'n'Roller coaster rides (the Paris version is different from the one in Orlando).
Kiss, on the other hand, have always been fun to watch. Last time I saw them, it was for their Psycho Circus tour and the live 3D video system used on stage was pretty cool. Also cool was turning around and see 18000 people with 3D glasses on. I think I always had a soft spot for Kiss. We screened "Phantom of the Park" a couple of weeks ago.

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 08-08-2009, 02:07 PM:

The Bee Gees or the Brothers Gibb had their first album come out in 1967 this was 10 years before the disco peak. Their music was more geared towards the three part harmonies and sort of a rocking folk sound, at least that's how I thought they sounded. For the Saturday Night Fever album they wrote 5 songs and recorded 4 of them. The songs were Staying Alive, How deep is your love, More Than a Woman, Night Fever and If I can't Have You. The other two songs they had on the soundtrack were recorded on previous albums. Jive Talkin' (1975) and You should be Dancing (1976). It was those seven songs that through the Bee Gees into the, "they are a Disco Act, they must suck".....Andy Gibb didn't help matters either because his solo hits were disco oriented.

quote: Jean-Marc Toussaint
Aerosmith on stage are boring. I've seen them a few times. It feels like I've been attending the same show over and over again.
Some of their older records are nice. And, indeed, they have both Rock'n'Roller coaster rides (the Paris version is different from the one in Orlando).
Kiss, on the other hand, have always been fun to watch. Last time I saw them, it was for their Psycho Circus tour and the live 3D video system used on stage was pretty cool. Also cool was turning around and see 18000 people with 3D glasses on. I think I always had a soft spot for Kiss. We screened "Phantom of the Park" a couple of weeks ago.

The best Aerosmith show for me out of the two times I saw them was for the Nine Lives tour.

Kiss always puts on a good show. I have seen them 5 times 4 with make up and 1 with out.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-08-2009, 02:51 PM:

Good summary about the BeeGees, Darryl. I guess my point was that they weren't a "disco act," it was just a relatively short phase of their career.

I think the "Disco sucks" thing would have happened without the Bee Gees. You had "Disco Duck" and a whole lot of other really bad records that fueled it. There were WAY more bad disco records than great ones. The Bee Gees productions were high quality records and they had several more big hits after the "Fever" era, but they were white "pretty boys" and therefore made good targets for the disco-sucks movement. I think what ended their run of chart-toppers was their overuse of Barry Gibb's falsetto, combined with the fact the public is fickle and was moving on to the next big thing (punk rock).

Posted by Chad Souder (Member # 343) on 08-08-2009, 03:32 PM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
Aerosmith was already a headlining rock band long long before Run-DMC ever crossed paths with them. The whole idea that Run-DMC "made" Aerosmith is just plain retarded. It is ignorant of 1970's music history.

Who exactly are you responding to, One-Shot Bobby? Nobody said anything about Run-DMC making Aerosmith. You should try reading everything. I stated that I think Walk This Way sounds much better after Run-DMC got done with it, probably because Steven Tyler really sucks at rapping. We're only talking about the one song.

If you listen to the song, Run-DMC does not do the chorus. They only do the rap in the verses. The instrumental doesn't even change that much. Probably because it's Joe Perry playing. It's like Run-DMC listened to the original, thought "Hey, that's song would be really good if the verses didn't totally suck balls. We should do it better." Tyler and Perry must have thought it sounded pretty good too seeing as how they worked with Run-DMC to get it done.

quote: Randy Stankey
You can say that Aerosmith invented rap way back in 1975, long before any of those other assholes were a even stain on their momma's underwear.

Generally, rap is considered to have been born around 1970. Many, myself included, give credit to Bob Dylan's Subterranean Homesick Blues as the first rap song in 1965. Some say Charlie Ryan's Hot Rod Lincoln in 1955. Regardless, Aerosmith certainly didn't invent it. They were probably aware of a growing genre and wanted to try something different.

quote: Mike Blakesley
Aerosmith did a great, faithful rendition of "Come Together" which is one of the few bright spots in it.

If there ever was a case to make a law against remakes... If you want a good remake of that song (tongue firmly in cheek) click here

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-08-2009, 04:10 PM:

Well, the Aero version is better than the Michael Jackson version. At least the whole thing doesn't sound like it's being performed by robots on "automatic." I do agree that nobody can top the Beatles version but I thought Aero gave it a good shot.

I think it's kind of funny how rock music gets no respect from the R&B and country/western communities, but when those acts want to really crank up the amperage on their live shows, what do they do? Pull out a rock'n'roll song.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 08-08-2009, 05:31 PM:

quote: Chad Souder
Who exactly are you responding to, One-Shot Bobby? Nobody said anything about Run-DMC making Aerosmith.

I'm responding to you, 40' Wide Asshole Chad. Screw you and your pissy little "one shot Bobby" comment. That's real nice form bringing up shit from a long dead thread.

You did type this retarded comment, earlier in this particular thread, which is keeping things on the current topic:

quote: Chad Souder
Aerosmith needed Run DMC to make "Walk This Way" sound good.

Chad, you must be stone deaf or have just plain horrible taste in music if you really believe that crap.

The original version of Walk This Way sounded far better. The musical arrangement was far superior. The musicianship of the band was much better, especially the guitar work. The original was better recorded. Steven Tyler's vocals were much better on the original.

As for Run-DMC, they mumbled their way through their own lyrics on their knock off of Walk This Way. Quality wise, it is one of Run-DMC's lesser tunes. They're much better when they do their own thing.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 08-08-2009, 05:52 PM:

quote: Chad Souder
Generally, rap is considered to have been born around 1970.

You're right on that. I was just using Aerosmith to make a humorous example.

You're right about that MJ version of "Come Together!"

Another rule! Anybody who does a version of that song without permission from the Beatles or Aerosmith should have to undergo repeated plastic surgery and endless facial dermabrasion treatments and chemical peels for the rest of their lives.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 08-08-2009, 09:09 PM:

WRT "Walk This Way". I think the cover version disappoints in that Steven Tyler's chorus wasn't exactly musical to my ears.

Posted by Geena Phillips (Member # 3726) on 08-18-2009, 09:31 PM:

Disco started off in gay and black subcultures; anti-disco sentiment eventually became the "in" thing to do, but make no mistake: Its roots were in racism and homophobia.

The only three important things that came from the 1970s musically were:

Punk
Disco
Queen

As much as I enjoy the music of that era, it'd be hard to make the argument that jettisoning everything outside those three parameters would have ANY appreciable effect on modern culture.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 08-18-2009, 09:54 PM:

I disagree on that assessment. I'd say that the beginnings of metal by groups like Black Sabbath and Deep Purple to be pretty important.

Posted by Pravin Ratnam (Member # 1417) on 08-20-2009, 08:49 AM:

I have to chime in on Walk this Way. I prefer the original version and I actually like Tyler's "rap" on it. Having said that, if you were going to do a cover version, I am glad it was RUN-DMC that did it. I think Run DMC helped Aerosmith more at that stage of their careers rather than the other way around. While I dont agree with Chad that Tyler's rap sucked on the original, I do agree that Aerosmith was pretty much finished in the mid 80s. I think the one two shot of the Run DMC video and the Permanent Vacation album helped Aerosmith surge to a very high level of popularity in the mainstream. It was the perfect timing for both bands and it wasn't just another rock cover or even worse one of those pretentious acoustic slowed down renderings. And you gotta understand what a great pop moment that was seeing our favorite rap act get together with a classic rock act like Aerosmith. For those of us who liked both genres, it was very cool back then. This was way before Diddy his craptacular collaboration with Page.

The Beegees. OK I am going to say it. I actually prefer their disco stuff. I think Saturday Night Fever tracks were their best ever and while they endured temporary ridicule over it, it is the legacy that helped them sold concerts in recent years.

I tried listening to some KISS songs again since some people I know were having a similar conversation. I still don't get it. Other than two or three hit songs, I find their songs boring. I like New York Groove, but that is more of an Ace song and because it reminds me of the early 70s glam rock scene which I love.

Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 08-20-2009, 09:34 AM:

quote: Pravin Ratnam
While I dont agree with Chad that Tyler's rap sucked on the original, I do agree that Aerosmith was pretty much finished in the mid 80s.

I disagree with that. "Get a Grip" was a hugely popular album and it was 1993 I think. Then "Nine Lives" was actually a better album (but less successful) and that was 1996 or 1997. Thier popularity peaked with "I Don't Want to Miss a Thing" on the Armageddon soundtrack. I'd say thier new stuff started to decline big time in the late 90's/early 2000's.

I went to several shows on the Just Push Play tour and the Aerosmith/Kiss tour and the live show was better than many younger bands. If I still have the energy of Steven Tyler when I'm in my late 50's (as he was when I last saw them) I'll be happy. And if in my mid 50's I'm in as good a shape as Joe Perry (performing shirtless and looking cut) I'll also be really happy.

BTW, the Aero/Kiss show was great. You got the spectacle of Kiss followed by the more musically talented Aerosmith.

Posted by Pravin Ratnam (Member # 1417) on 08-20-2009, 09:49 AM:

Lyle, read the rest of what I wrote. When I said "finished by the mid 80s", I didn't mean forever. Permanent Vacation and Walk this Way heralded their comeback,at least according to my recollection.

While i hate rock ballads, I didn't mind their ballads during the whole Alicia Silverstone video phase, but I despise I Dont Wanna Miss A Thing. It ranks right up there with Backstreet Boys type crap. It reminds of how Def Leppard went from cool rock band to annoying aging rocker ballad group.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-20-2009, 02:03 PM:

quote: Pravin Ratnam
I like New York Groove, but that is more of an Ace song

Not "more of;" it IS an Ace Frehley song, from his self-titled solo album.

I have to disagree with Geena on her dismissal of most of the 1970s music. Just as many great songs came out of that era as the '60s. The whole "singer songwriter" genre produced some genuinely great songs. (Carole King, Jackson Browne, Joni Mitchell, the list goes on.) And "pop-rock" music really came of age in the '70s too, until disco and punk crowded it to the side.