Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Color laser printer for 11x17 paper?

This is topic Color laser printer for 11x17 paper? in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 11-18-2008, 04:15 PM:

I'm looking for one but of course, don't want to have to sell the farm to get it. I found one at hp.com but it's over 2 grand.

Most of the ones I've found will print on legal-size, but not the larger 11x17.

Anyone ever seen one of these animals that's not so expensive? Any recommendations would be great.

Posted by Sean Weitzel (Member # 244) on 11-18-2008, 05:27 PM:

Mike I sent you an email to the address associated with your account on the forum.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-18-2008, 09:25 PM:

Keeping the low-cost 11x17 printers a secret Sean?

Posted by Sean Weitzel (Member # 244) on 11-19-2008, 02:28 AM:

no I have a printer Mike might be interested in, but was concerned that soliciting a transaction in this forum is against the rules. Just trying to play it safe.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 11-19-2008, 07:01 AM:

11x17 ledger paper is similar to A3; it's slightly narrower and longer, but the printers will take either size, as with letter and A4.

These printers are always going to be significantly more expensive than the smaller ones because the market for them is much smaller. The price you quote is less than I would expect to pay for such a printer here, but then most things are more expensive here.

How much printing do you intend to do? Remember that as a gereral rule the cheaper the printer the more expensive it will be to run; some cheap printers are very expensive to run, and will soon have cost more than the initial saving by buying a cheaper model. Always check the costs of consumables carefully before buying a printer.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 11-19-2008, 09:56 AM:

I'm kind of surprised they're not more popular. I use an inkjet to print posters and signs and such on 11x17...looks way better and more noticable than legal or 8x11 paper. But, the ink costs are ridiculous, print time is awful slow, a drop of water ruins them, etc.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 11-19-2008, 12:51 PM:

Just an opinion, but there is no logical reason at all why a 11X17 printer should cost 10x that of a standard printer -- it's just the carriage travel has to be extended to accomodate the wider paper. Seeing as how they are capable of churning out a dozen new printers models every 6 months and retool them so that none of the cartridges fit each other, it doesn't seem beyond their ability to manufacture a printer with a 11in width at a reasonable price. But that's just me.

I am printing 27x 42in posters with a standard inkjet printer using the "tile" feature; I am have the problem Mike mentioned -- if any water from a strong rain leaks into the display cases, the ink runs. Anyone know any way of setting the ink product so it's somewhat waterproof or at least water resistant -- perhaps a spray coating of some sort?

Posted by Robert Minichino (Member # 3495) on 11-19-2008, 01:09 PM:

There's a perfectly good reason, Frank. Economies of scale. Printer manufacturers can't spread the fixed costs of the 11x17 printers and supplies over as many units as they can with narrow carriage printers.

At least for HP cartridges, they're shared among many different printer models. The biggest reason for the proliferation of different non-interchangeable cartridges is that, at least for most inkjets, is that the cartridge contains the print head, so each new generation of printers also brings a new cartridge with it.

To protect your prints you can use a spray varnish, like this one (just an example I found on a quick web search): http://www.calumetphoto.com/item/LR4903/

Posted by John Hegel (Member # 628) on 11-19-2008, 01:11 PM:

This won’t fix the inkjet factor but you can buy ink that is waterproof for these printers and they are extremely cost effective. We print full color 3x4' back-lit posters with ours and we figure it’s about $3.00/sheet with the darkest images.

Hp Designjet

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 11-19-2008, 01:12 PM:

This is really a supply-and-demand problem. And you get it from two axes. More and more color printers are shifting to away from laser (to ink jet and solid ink), and consumer/home office printers are also less likely to support 11x17.

Depending on your requirements, you might be able to find something used. About once a month someone gives away a color hp 8500 or 4500 around here (though often there's something wrong with them...).

-jhawk

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 11-19-2008, 03:45 PM:

quote: Robert Minichino
The biggest reason for the proliferation of different non-interchangeable cartridges is that, at least for most inkjets, is that the cartridge contains the print head, so each new generation of printers also brings a new cartridge with it.

That's a bullshit reason. They could easily make different printers all use the same cartridges. Print head technology doesn't change THAT often or that much.

Many HP printers used the #45 Black cartridge for several years before some guy in Marketing woke up and said "Wait a minute..." It's the old razors and blades thing: Give away the razors (printers) and make the money on the blades (ink). If people even gave half a thought to how much they pay for a gallon of ink, they would never gripe about gas prices.

Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 11-19-2008, 04:01 PM:

The 11 x 17 sized sheets are from the professional printing business. By printing two 8 1/2 x 11 sheets on one sheet and then making a single cut it is possible to double the output of an offset press instantly. This is especially valuable when doing two sided copy as it reduces the press work greatly.

Prints Plus, the local blueprint, plotter and copy center has a special machine that prints our one sheets in full color on non-paper stock (even foam core)with waterproof and less fading ink. It is far less expensive than owning the big printer for us to have them do our posters since we can eMail the copy to them and pick it up an hour later.

The leased and networked large sized laser printer is very useful for a larger company where it can be used for one off proofs and small runs before sending the copy to a printing house for multiple copies, folding or binding.

KEN

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-19-2008, 04:15 PM:

Mike,

You are absolutely correct but what does happen is the print heads have a finite life span... I've had some of mine re-filled numerous times. Before they fill them they test them... and on numerous times the print heads were found to be bad.

Really, Just have it done at Office Max or Office Depot for a buck a page... They have 40K dollar Laser printers that none of us would consider owning. The qwality will be lots better than any home type printer could muster up....

Posted by Robert Minichino (Member # 3495) on 11-19-2008, 04:50 PM:

Mike, I have a bit of a conflict here because I work for HP, but the print head technology does change. Smaller nozzles and better droplet control improve print quality and speed. It doesn't do anyone any good to obsolete old ink carts with a new printer for no reason, especially if the price per page doesn't go up.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 11-19-2008, 09:46 PM:

Well, not to knock HP, but we bought a new DeskJet and had a supply of carts left over from one of our earlier Deskjet printers. The carts, although they looked identical, wouldn't go all the way into the new printer. I inspected the older carts very closely and discovered that there was a plastic protrusion on one side of the cartridge that prevented it from sitting in the printer. I used a grinder in the shop to drind the protrusion down. Long story short, we were able to use our six older cartridges in the new printer without any degradation of the printing quality whatsoever. So it seems to me that those plastic protrusions were there for one purpose only -- to insure that the customer needs to buy new cartridges with his new printer. And I am sorry, but that IS a fairly unethical way to put more money in the pocket of the manufacture while short changing the customer.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-19-2008, 10:16 PM:

I have an HP Office Jet V40 printer/scammer/fax hooked up as my network printer on my 2850 server here at home and its been a great printer... I don't think I have installed any cartridges on it in over a year and I print a fair bit off stuff.

Posted by Robert Minichino (Member # 3495) on 11-20-2008, 03:21 PM:

Frank, if you can give me the actual number of the cartridges I can look to see if there are any non-obvious differences that would have motivated that little nub.

Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 11-20-2008, 05:00 PM:

We just threw away a huge OKI color laser printer here at the office about a month or so ago. There was nothing wrong with it except the toner cartridges were empty. It made gorgeous prints, and we used it daily for our presentations and specification printing. However, the toner cartridges cost more to replace than we paid for the whole printer. We just went out and bought another one.

I can speak high praises for the HP Design Jet series of large format printers. As I type, I'm looking at our HP Designjet 800C Plus that I have here in my office. It's a workhorse that we use daily. Only thing I don't like about it is it's limited to 24 inch width roll stock. The previous engineering firm I worked for had an HP printer/plotter with double 36 inch wide roll stock paper.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 11-21-2008, 09:10 AM:

On plotters I have the encad cadjet3 that does 36" wide rolls
It uses the HP cartridges
I have been extremely happy with it

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 11-21-2008, 10:31 AM:

I have always been happy with HP printers too. Between the theatre and my day job and home office, I 'administer' 12 printers, three of which are thermal machines. Of the others, all but one is an HP -- three lasers and the rest inkjet. (The lone non-HP inkjet is my wife's office printer which is a Canon.) And our store uses HP PCs on the counter.

So I have no problem with HP products but I still think ink is priced the way it is because that's where most of the money is made. I've probably wasted hundreds of dollars over the years on ink carts that were out-moded by a printer upgrade. I still have a $100 toner cart sitting on the shelf right now from an old IIp printer that gave up the ghost a few years ago.