Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Lack of manners by young people is troublesome

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Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 02-04-2009, 03:28 PM:

Probably the first two words I learned from my mother was THANK YOU as well as how to be a well mannered person in life. I also remember my sister in law making sure my two nephews learned and used these words from the time they were little. Unfortunately many young people today did not have parents that taught their children proper manners like my mother and my sister in law and that is unfortunate. It is very frustrating to go to stores or fast food restaurants that are staffed with young people that fail to say thank you and greet customers with a smile and a eagerness to serve. Instead many have a surly manner and gave one an impression they were doing us a favor by waiting on us. My biggest pet peeve however is when I held a door open for someone and they did not even bother to say thank you. I have a car and use it a lot but I also use public transportation and have found more and more young people seating in areas on the bus that reserved for senior citizens who fail to yield their seat to seniors like myself The thread I started the other day at 'Ground Level'' about young people using their cell phones to text messages during a movie is another classic example how many young people show their disregard to others. It is also sad to point out the fact that bad manners is not only limited to young people. I have also experienced it among older people too.

-Claude

Posted by Robert E. Allen (Member # 1351) on 02-04-2009, 04:44 PM:

Well Claude, it has been my observation both in exhibition and retailing that the "social graces" have been entirely lost in our younger generation. Young men seem to know nothing about being "gentlemen" and young women seem to know little about being "ladies". The men seem to think that being foul-mouthed and treating women as sexual objects is acceptable and the women (girls actually) seem to think that dressing like hookers is acceptable. Their passion to emulate celebrates (most of whom seem to have the morals of a rock) and poor parenting seem to be responsible. I'm not sure I can blame them entirely as they haven't been taught anything better and in an effort to "belong" they join the "everybody's doing it" generation joining that great parade of compassless individuals headed down a bumpy road. This is, of course, a generalization. I have supervised some fine young people.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 02-04-2009, 05:10 PM:

While it does not excuse rude behavior, it should be pointed out that many people in retail situations (stores, fast food restaurants, etc.) operate on the assumption that it is more polite to be fast and efficient than to waste time chatting.

This goes especially for big cities. It is not uncommon for retail transactions to sound like: "Your total is $3.98...Your change...Thank you...Next customer, please."

I'm not saying that is necessarily right. It's just that peoples' expectations have changed. Where it was once thought polite to speak to every customer individually, it is now thought to be more polite to move customers through the line as quickly as possible so that any individual doesn't have to wait too long.

There is a certain amount of it driven by good old-fashioned capitalist greed. But, on the flipside, can you remember how many times you are forced to stand in line behind somebody fumbling for their wallet and chatting at the same time?

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 02-04-2009, 05:49 PM:

I know I am old enough to qualify as an old fart, but let's not pretend some previous generation was blessed with good manners and Kids These Days are hopeless boors. Watch any old sitcom long enough and there will be a show on how kids have no manners.

I remember being on a HS field trip, probably in 1974, after which several busloads of us were taken to McDonald's. I placed my order saying please and got it saying thank you. The counter person (who seemed old to me at the time but was probably a single mom in her 30's) said I was the first person that day to say thank you.

Similarly, around they same era, I remember holding a door open for someone and that person laughing at me for doing so.

Ya know what, I still hold doors open and still say thank you to the purveyors of junk food because it is polite, and every now and then, it makes someone's miserable day a little better. Hell, I say thank you when a cop gives me a ticket!

And if you really want to see where kids are learning their manners, come to our children's shows in the summer. We cater to day care centers and I know manners (along with punctuality, good nutrition and proper line forming) are not part of the agenda. But every now and then, a kid will say thank you and I will say Your Welcome right back to it.

You can't raise other people's kids, you just have to be responsible for yourself.

And shoot the ones talking in the theatre;>

Posted by Ron Funderburg (Member # 4561) on 02-04-2009, 05:51 PM:

I can remember as a youth being told that we, the younger generation, were loud, unruly, rude who totally lacked a work ethic. I can fondly remember when the same person who stated this spoke of how these same individuals had grown to be quite respectable individuals with good work ethics and manners to boot.

I know that I worked hard to gain that individuals respect and it wasn't an easy task. He was a supervisor at a printing company where I was a typesetter, working there full time and working in theaters full time at the same time. So when he at last told me I was a good employee (in some way other than an increase in pay) it meant a lot to me.

Since this time I have noticed that older individuals have always thought the next generation was a bit lacking. My father, before his death, told me he could remember before he left for the war (that is the big one WWII) that he was told what an irresponsible slob he was by an employer between his Jr. and Sr years at high school.

However, watching over the last 5 to 6 years, I see as rule that this naturally less responsible period is lasting longer, the rudeness is more harsh, and the work ethic isn't developing in many of the youth today at all. I see a greater propensity in the youth of today toward the quick and easy. This may be in part at least, the fast food lifestyle we have adopted to be sure. I don't find many of the kids I have been associated with in past few years as stepping up to the plate to deliver but more and more asking why someone doesn't just give them what they want. Of course, there are exceptions which gives me hope for the future.

I blame the parents of these examples for the most part and wonder just where and when it all started to go south. For certain we live in fast food society and to a degree the women are treated as having less importance because now they insist on being an equal rather than someone we (as males) treat with the respect due someone special.

Well just some observations by a guy that has been around a bit!

Posted by Jennifer Pan (Member # 2035) on 02-04-2009, 07:25 PM:

It's not just the younger generation, people of all ages lack manners or are appreciative to others. I don't get thank yous for doing/giving things all the time.

It's not just manners... the behavior of this entire generation has become more negative. I got honked at yesterday by an older guy for driving the speed limit. Tailing me for over a mile when there were clearly two other lanes to choose from.

Posted by Ron Funderburg (Member # 4561) on 02-04-2009, 07:56 PM:

Jennifer there has been a general decline in civility for the past 10 to 15 years. I think it is a combination of things but cell phones in general have led to a lot of manner less behavior! We seem as a society not to care about others anymore!

Then again we can be rather thoughtless on this forum at times but hey usually we aren't all that serious when insulting others here!

"Oh well it will not make a bit of difference in 100 years what we say or do here today." Well that is what a boss of mine use to say, it was so depressing then and maybe more so now than then.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 02-04-2009, 08:04 PM:

quote: Jennifer Pan
I got honked at yesterday by an older guy for driving the speed limit. Tailing me for over a mile when there were clearly two other lanes to choose from.

Were you in the right-hand lane?

Posted by Jennifer Pan (Member # 2035) on 02-04-2009, 08:10 PM:

Middle lane and he had plenty of room to change to other lanes... So I finally just moved over to the right lane and went on my merry way.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 02-04-2009, 08:52 PM:

Slower traffic is supposed to stay right. He was probably mad because you weren't yielding. [Wink]

Posted by Mike Heenan (Member # 392) on 02-04-2009, 09:31 PM:

It's a good thing you were slow and in his way initially. Your actions may have changed things, and prevented him from jumping the curb and running over 10 people at an outdoor market, like old people are prone to doing. [Big Grin]

Posted by Jennifer Pan (Member # 2035) on 02-04-2009, 09:34 PM:

Since when is the speed limit slower traffic???

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 02-04-2009, 11:57 PM:

Mike... ROFL!! [rofl]

Jen: That's defensive driving. I know it doesn't seem fair but if everyone else is doing 70 in a 55, yet you are doing the speed limit, then you are slower traffic. I've seen lots of cars rear-ended that way. Sure it would be the other driver's fault, but at what cost? [Frown]

We're supposed to stay right unless passing. [Smile]

Here in NY/NJ/PA, it's difficult, as everyone always speeds up when you try to pass them. [Mad]

I still haven't been able to figure out why they do that, but almost without fail, they do. I'm normally a speed-limit driver unless every lane is speeding, then I have to at least increase my speed by a safe margin in order to avoid being a hazard.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 02-05-2009, 12:03 AM:

quote: Jennifer Pan
Since when is the speed limit slower traffic???

I run into this almost all the time on the I-84 corridor between the ORE border and Boise: people driving slow in the middle lane of a "three laner."

Admittedly, I used to have the horrible problem of "road rage" - thinking that I owned the road and expected all the other drivers to know what I know since I read the manual and know how to drive freeways (which sounds like the case that Jen experienced with this tailgater..she should have called the state police and said that she has a tailgater behind her on her cel. That would have iced that driver off pretty good..). But now, after doing self 'anger management procedures,' I just now go on either side of that middle lane slow driver.

For that person driving in the middle lane DOESN't care what you think and how you are reacting, so why waste the effort in proving to him what you know. "LET it GO"... and go around that driver.

ALSO, on a two lane and some bozo is slow in the fast lane and you simply cant get around that bozo even when tipping the lights on bright to make him move over: to save face since that person ALSO doesn't care what you think, pull the frick over in the emerg stopping lane for one minute then re-emerge back into traffic. This keeps the tempers and rage at a sane level.

(Sorry to drift off-topic there for a bit, but still the same is the topic of manners. And do agree: they are getting few and far between these days...)

-Monte

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 02-05-2009, 12:11 AM:

With relation to young men being "gentlemen", I've noticed some new trends when it comes to interacting with the girls.

First of all, it seems that more and more "couples" are going dutch. And I rarely even see the guy offering to pay.

Related to the first observation is the "ladies first" rule seems to have completely gone away. Teen boy and even early twenty somethings don't seem to have the slightest hesitation to going in front of the girls they are with - and then not paying. And it's not even like they are just chatting and the one closest to the window goes first, the guys will actively move in front of the girls.

Maybe it comes off as sexist to today's world, but I've always believed in ladies first. And I always at least offer to pay - even if it's just friends.

The one thing I try to make a point of is thanking someone - especially a teen - when they show good manners. One specific instance that comes to mind is a girl steps up to the concession counter while talking on her phone. As she steps up, she actually tells the person I'll call you back and puts her phone away. I don't think she understood why I said "thank you for that".

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 02-05-2009, 12:55 AM:

Not to excuse bad manners, but there are certainly different standards for behavior between different generations. That's not bad manners, it's just the world changing (not nec. for the better).

If we went back 100 years, polite people might say that having a discussion like this in public would be the height of rudeness.

The best thing to do is to set a standard for politeness without sarcasm, retribution, belittling, self-righteousness, or arrogance. It may not be rewarding, and its effectiveness may be less than some other actions you could imagine (e.g. yelling at the entire theatre), but it's the right thing to do.

If someone fails to hold the door for you, why not stop and wait for the next two people and hold the door for them? Etc.

--jhawk

Posted by Jennifer Pan (Member # 2035) on 02-05-2009, 12:59 AM:

Tim: The people around me were doing about the same speed (45 on city street, not FWY). This dude and his old truck just really likes my car and wanted to makeout with it. I understand it's a very sexy car and that I'm a hot Asian girl in her mid 20's. I would do the same. [Razz]

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 02-05-2009, 01:27 AM:

quote: Justin Hamaker
Maybe it comes off as sexist to today's world, but I've always believed in ladies first.

That went away when women demanded to be treated equally. They fought hard to be treated as one of the guys. They aren't helpless. They can open their own doors. If we constantly treat them like the handicapped, then they'll only be as capable as such. Granted, if I am going through a door and someone is in close proximity, I don't let it close in their face regardless of gender.

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 02-05-2009, 02:41 AM:

quote: Justin Hamaker
One specific instance that comes to mind is a girl steps up to the concession counter while talking on her phone. As she steps up, she actually tells the person I'll call you back and puts her phone away. I don't think she understood why I said "thank you for that".

She probably thought you were referring to her exposition of her cleavage. [Big Grin]

quote: Jennifer Pan
This dude and his old truck just really likes my car and wanted to makeout with it.

Yes...Undoubtedly it was your car that was on his mind. [eyes]

Posted by Carey Barber (Member # 1586) on 02-05-2009, 09:26 AM:

I go back-and-forth on this one...sometimes convinced that this generation is ruder and at other times thinking that this is mostly nonsense.

________

On one hand, I guarantee that if you went back 20 years, or 40 years, or 60 years you would find the exact same complaints about the contemporary generation of young 'uns. That means that the older people of today were at one time considered rude and hopeless. For the older folks that are complaining about "these kids today", I guarantee that someone was saying the same thing about you.

I think that YOUNG PEOPLE are often rude, not just THIS GENERATION of young people. There is peer pressure at work, with a lot of kids feeling that acting a certain way would be lame or corny. Hopefully, they will grow out of this phase, and I think that the past gives us good reason to think that this will be the case.

I should also point out that the ABSOLUTE RUDEST people I have encountered in this business have not been young people but seniors. I have seen older people treat kids in a way that was absolutely uncalled for, being surly, mean, and foul-mouthed. This does not make me think that older people are ruder; it makes me think that this PARTICULAR GUY was a mean old prick.

I have also noticed that middle-aged women are often ridiculously mean to young staff. The attitude is that if you work in retail then you are sub-human. In short, I have seen the entire range of politeness/rudeness in every age group.

Another thing, which has been pointed out by other posters, is that the parents are often to blame. These parents are usually in their 40s or late 30s.

We also have to separate true courtesy concerns with silly regional, generational, or cultural niceties. There are little old ladies around here that think that wearing white after labor day is rude.

___________

On the other hand, I do think a case can be made that this current crop may have all the typical rudeness of youth exacerbated. It is a loud, fast-paced, Paris Hilton-ish culture that a lot of these kids are seeing. There are some really terrible behaviors/attitudes that are not only condoned but actually strived for. Attention spans are shorter and personal relationships are devalued.

In our business, we do have a lot problems because we usually rely on young staff. I have seen some really amazing kids, but I have also seen a lot of terrible ones. Beyond just laziness and rudeness, we have had problems with theft. There is an attitude that the world is owed to them and that stealing from that "faceless corporation" is no big deal. And when the parents come in you understand why this is so. I have seen parents act like we were the criminals when their kid gets fired for stealing, despite the fact that we have him on camera stealing and he has a jar full of cash in his room. With parents like that, the kid is likely doomed.

Posted by Damien Taylor (Member # 4255) on 02-05-2009, 10:12 AM:

I don't know how bad things are over there, but I have a second job as a scan-man (check-out chap) at a supermarket and 99% of people are friendly, chatty and polite. It is an small minority that seem to be grumpy bums.

Freeway driving really gives me the s**ts, I wish I had a big sign on the side of my car for the people that fly past saying "Everyone's car can do that, we just choose not to".

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 02-05-2009, 10:34 AM:

quote: Carey Barber
I should also point out that the ABSOLUTE RUDEST people I have encountered in this business have not been young people but seniors. I have seen older people treat kids in a way that was absolutely uncalled for, being surly, mean, and foul-mouthed. This does not make me think that older people are ruder; it makes me think that this PARTICULAR GUY was a mean old prick.

And likely those people can't do anything about it.

For instance, my grandfather always was a nice, caring man but as he got older he got extremely short-tempered especially as he got senile. And now my dad is having the same thing. Decent chance it's genetic. Hopefully I won't get the same thing and will inherit better aging from my mom.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 02-05-2009, 11:31 AM:

I disagree with the knee-jerk stereotypical notion that people lumped into one certain group are more rude than others. Asshole-itis does not discriminate.

There is a lot of young people who are rude, inconsiderate jerks. Contrary to popular belief there is also a LOT of young people who do have manners and will keep a door open for someone. I see that all the time here in Lawton, and this isn't a high class town either. Unfortunately, most people only notice the negative things and rarely ever concentrate on the good.

If there is any behavior of the general public I would change if granted the power to do so is our habit of jumping to conclusions and lumping anyone we can into a group.

Posted by Scott D. Neff (Member # 185) on 02-05-2009, 12:04 PM:

It's those damned hippies... out there protesting and smoking all those drugs.

But seriously, when was the last time you heard of anybody saying "Wow, this generation is so well behaved?"

Posted by Robert E. Allen (Member # 1351) on 02-05-2009, 01:23 PM:

I sometimes wonder if in the U.S. the lack of manners is a regional thing. I have spent most of my life on the West Coast and have come to believe that generally good manners is a scarce commodity out here. I have had the privilege of spending several years in Minnesota and Iowa and found people there to be much more courteous than what I've been used to. Have any of you noticed anything like that? BTW I'm a senior (I'll be 77 next April) and while I agree there's some cranky ones from my generation I take great pleasure in being a courteous gentleman. Maybe it's because I enjoy the positive responses it elicits from people.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 02-05-2009, 02:59 PM:

Robert, you speak the truth. People are different regionally.

While you wouldn't know it by the way people drive here, some of the nicest people I know and have met, have been in the New York/New Jersey area. Back when I was driving a truck, I could tell differences in the way people behaved, for example, on the loading docks. In NY/NJ it was always a camaraderie atmosphere (the "tough" exterior only being a facade - I was never dis-respected), yet in regions of the country known on the surface for their "hospitality," I found some genuinely rude and overbearing personalities. In six years, I have never been flipped off driving in New York or New Jersey. I was, however, given the bird every time I was in North Carolina. Boston ranked second in that department (sorry, Scott). [Frown]

Does this mean everyone in these areas is like this, and there are no exceptions?

Sure it does. [Razz]

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-05-2009, 06:47 PM:

quote: Tim Reed
I was, however, given the bird every time I was in North Carolina. Boston ranked second in that department

Tim, Its gotta be the haircut!

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 02-06-2009, 07:11 AM:

I sort of find the same thing as Tim describes; people in NYC will, say, let you in traffic much sooner than other areas, but don't waste their time; *delaying* is what pisses them off.

I can't say much about old farts in cars who won't pass, but here in the NY area (where generaly the highways are three lanes wide) trucks are not allowed in the far left lane. That means the center lane is their only passing lane- you are blocking them if you don't move over. I don't think most car drivers are aware of this.

Posted by Damien Taylor (Member # 4255) on 02-06-2009, 07:17 AM:

Just to add to what Tim has said, I used to be a storeman at my supermarket and honestly, the truckies, albeit a bit rough around the edges were some of the nicest most genuine people I have ever met.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 02-06-2009, 08:45 AM:

quote: Tim Reed
Robert, you speak the truth. People are different regionally.

Ahhhh... I don't know...

In my experience, most young people are pretty decent... until they get around a group of their peers. Then, it's all bets off... and THAT'S no different than when I was their age. Many of them tend to express their individuality in a way we might consider 'different' and/or inappropriate, and they have some tools to use that we didn't (cell phones, computers, ipods, 60,000 watt stereos). Otherwise, we're just getting a healthy dose of what we gave our folks, as far as I can see.