This is topic Chinese 16 Theater in Aurora, Co...Information wanted in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=005766

---

Posted by Tony L. Hernandez (Member # 3524) on 04-20-2009, 06:12 PM:
 
Can anyone here give me a rough year of construction for the Chinese 16 in Aurora, Colorado?

Also, if any of you have visited the place, please let me know what you thought. Someone told me last night that as a movie theater buff, the place is worth it for me to visit. I've never seen the building in person so I'm not sure...
 

---

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 04-20-2009, 07:27 PM:
 
Joe Redifer could give you the most information, as he opened the place. I did some work there in 2000. The theater has changed hands 3-4 tiles now and from all of the reports I've heard, the presentation there is nothing short of godawful now.

I visited it about a month after I stopping doing any work there. It went from "excellent" to "quite shitty" in that one month alone. I can't fathom how bad it is now, but the multiple reports scare me.

This was the theater that the 16 screen interlock video was done at.
 

---

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 04-20-2009, 08:23 PM:
 
I visited the theater once with to see one of those Austin Powers sequels (that was about the best thing playing at the time). The theater was attractive looking and had good equipment in the booth. However, I learned first hand how certain members of the theater staff had "fixed" what wasn't broken after people like had left. That was especially true in terms of the audio setup. Proper EQ? Shee-it. Even without the proper gear I'll just tweak all those knobs and buttons myself. The house has proper EQ when I say it does!
 

---

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-20-2009, 10:10 PM:
 
I saw a movie there sometime in the early 2000s. Not sure what year or what movie but I know it was in the "post-Redifer" era. What struck me the most was the condition of the rest rooms: Wallpaper torn off, one divider was missing between two stalls, one of the toilets was broken (yes! broken!) and there was water, paper and trash all over the floor.

I also remember the concession area. They had a dispenser of some cherry-flavored drink that was leaking and making a large bright red puddle on the floor behind the counter.

The auditoriums were really nice-looking though, and the presentation I remember being just fine -- a few small flecks of dirt on the print, but nothing worth complaining about.
 

---

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 04-20-2009, 11:51 PM:
 
Wow. Y'know, the day I visited that theater a tornado had hit a housing development under construction nearby while we were watching Goldmember and the attack of the Shitake Mushrooms. My dad was so pissed that I didn't take the mobile phone he loaned me into the theater (as if I would be able to do anything about the damned twister). I didn't realize the same tornado hit the restrooms in that theater.

Wow. and are lucky to be alive!
 

---

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 04-21-2009, 12:25 AM:
 
The Mann Chinese 16 at Arapahoe Crossings opened in January of 1998 if memory serves. It cost about $17 million in 1997/98 dollars.

The booth started out as absolute crap mainly because of the other projectionists as well as the Christie equipment (including CA-21 automations which did not recognize the failsafes). Over time, the bad projectionists were weeded out, we were finally allowed to pre-screen moves before the public saw them (thanks to a nice misprint on reel 1 of Saving Private Ryan) and we gained fantastic support from the equipment manufacturers (Christie and Pennywise) and nearly all technical issues were ironed out and improved dramatically (especially the CA-21 automation). For a while, the Chinese 16 could not be beat in presentation. We were far and above the best in the state, if not several surrounding states. I feel that no theater in Colorado today comes close to matching now what we had going then, especially when it was Myself, Brad, Dwayne (who posts maybe once a decade here) and Erika (who hasn't posted in forever) in charge of the booth. The sound in all auditoriums was awesome. Erika and I worked there until August of 2000 and Brad and Dwayne left a month or two later.

Mann sold the Colorado theaters to Colorado Cinemas Limited Liability Corporation which is a bit better name than "General Cinemas" I guess, but equally as non-creative. They got rid of THX and did a lot of cost-cutting things. It was rumored that Mann figured Colorado Cinemas would fail and they could buy their theaters back from them on the cheap, but that never happened. From what I heard one of the projectionists that was there after Brad and I left cranked the subwoofers way high because he wanted the auditoriums to sound like his car. When I saw the Austin Powers movie with Robert Henderson this was clearly evident as there was waaay too much low end and it sounded really, really bad. A couple of years ago (or so) Colorado Cinemas Limited Liability Corporation sold the theater to Kerasotes. I have heard that everything has taken a huge nose dive since. They have a "projection trainer" who must be obeyed and everything must be done his way (such as threading base side on every roller) and other idiotic things. I haven't been to the Chinese since this took place, but I have heard from many people who have been there that their films are often scratched, they are very dirty and they have some sound issues (involving what I do not know). It is also a manager run booth now. Pity.
 

---

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 04-21-2009, 12:29 AM:
 
I think we need to send Mark G over there to improve their presentation with digital.
 

---

Posted by Tony L. Hernandez (Member # 3524) on 04-21-2009, 02:16 AM:
 
Awesome guys! Thanks a bunch for your time and write ups! This is the exact information I was seeking! Question is basically answered but I'd still love to hear what anyone else has to say.

So management issues and other flaws aside, is this place something I should set time aside to visit considering I enjoy historic and/or unique theaters?

Also to Brad: thats interesting about your interlock video being done there. Any idea if that setup still exists?
 

---

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 04-21-2009, 02:37 AM:
 

quote: Joe Redifer

---

"projection trainer" who must be obeyed and everything must be done his way (such as threading base side on every roller) and other idiotic things.

---

quote: Joe Redifer

---

Erika and I worked there until August of 2000 and Brad and Dwayne left a month or two later.

---

quote: Grand Poo-Bah

---

Are you sure you aren't confusing this with the Mann's Chinese theater in Los Angeles??? That would qualify as a historic theater, not the one in Colorado. The Colorado theater is just a regular multiplex (although done nicer than most) with the front/lobby theme of the real Chinese in Los Angeles.

---

quote: ME

---

My last experience at the Chinese was way back in the 80's during the 70mm run of "The Right Stuff", and it was a nightmare experience. To start off, the boob in the booth (hereafter known as BITB) was threading the machine with the mag hot and no non-sync. So we got to hear the track from whatever scrap film was being used as the leader. I'm already starting to fume and my sister and best friend are waiting for me to explode.

Showtime comes and goes, the film starts almost ten minutes late. We are greeted with the SMPTE leader and track on the closed drape, which opened barely in time for the start of the show. The focus was soft (corrected after ten minutes) and the sound was missing the left channel (throughout).

Now most theatres I'd been to ran the intermission at the end of reel six, where Deke Slayton dives into the mermaid bar's tank and swims with the girls. Great spot to take the break as there is some nice "deedle-deedle" lounge music, and the next reel opens with reporters climbing a fence to get to the astronaut's wives. Well, at the Chinese some jackass decided to simply cut the film when the platter was full, because the break at the Chinese came at the end of the scene where the astronauts, in full suits, walk up a corridor to the camera (right before Shepard's flight.) This not only destroyed the dramatic impact of that transition, but we were now greeted with the abrupt cutoff of the music, the tail of the reel running out, complete with tones and "Right Stuff, reel Eight AB, Print #... " from the sound system, then white screen.

Now I'm royally pissed as is most of the 300 plus audience. I announced in a loud voice that just one more fuck-up and I'm getting my money back. That was met with a lot of agreement by the rest of the suffering audience.

Well, they didn't let us down. First we AGAIN got to hear the leader being dragged thru the mag, and run up and stopped. The lights dim the picture comes on.. and it an UPSIDE-DOWN image of a trucking shot of some house or pagoda-looking building!! We then hear the last few notes of the music from the preceding scene before we now get the correct image.

As the credit roll started I stormed into the lobby, tailed by about 50 other people, which soon grew to over 200. I read that manager the riot act, and got refunds for the ENTIRE group!!

What a total cock-up. I swore to never go to that over-hyped dump again. And based on Don's post as quoted above, looks like nothing's changed.

If one of the most renowned theatres IN THE WORLD can't do a show right, it's no wonder this industry is so fucked.

I fully blame management for tolerating a BITB, and not doing anything about it. I blame the projection union local for allowing incompetents to remain on the job in such a high-profile location (and I'm NOT anti-union). I just call 'em as I see 'em.

---

(That was from the "Lost That Moviegoing Mojo" thread.)

Don't know if things are any better there, but I don't want to waste my time and money to find out.
 

---

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 04-21-2009, 03:14 PM:
 
And the above is why it is so important to put on a flawless show (at least as flawless as your equipment is capable of) every single time no matter what, because many customers simply won't give you a second chance and that means lost potential revenue from that person forever.
 

---

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-21-2009, 03:44 PM:
 
I've only been to the "real Chinese" once, as a tourist, which means I didn't go to a show - just put my feet in John Wayne's footprints! Given the above comments, I think I'll just hang on to my fantasy that it's a perfect place to see a movie.
 

---

Posted by Don Furr (Member # 1469) on 04-21-2009, 04:13 PM:
 
We've been to the Chinese in Hollywood a dozen times and the presentation has been all over the place from PERFECT when I saw "The Fugitive" to something back in October of last year (non digital) that looked like crap. Sad thing is that is was the second time that print had been run at that location. The film was fluttering in the gate for the first hour and there was a sound problem. I kept hearing a low-grade buzz in the stage speakers. The one digital presentation I saw there was pretty impressive. Aside all of that, I think it's a beautiful theatre.

Don
 

---

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 04-21-2009, 04:20 PM:
 
It's funny that the many times over the years that I went to the Chinese Theatre complex in Hollywood. I never had any trouble with a presentation weather it was 70MM or 35mm (1979-2000, my time frame). The two regular guys at the theatre were top operators (Kenny and Mike). Tony you must have chosen that one lucky night that Ralph (Business Agent-Local 150) sent some clown to run the theatre that night. That was a problem in that local, of sending sub-par operators as reliefs from the extra board. During the mid 1990's the theatre was on some form of a limited service type contract with local 150 with management and booth usher types running the theatre.

ps. You should have seen it over at that Plitt Century Plaza.
 

---

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 04-21-2009, 05:40 PM:
 
I saw something crappy ("Eye of the Beholder") at the Chinese (the real one) in 2000, before they moved the booth back to the original location. Film presentation was fine, but the sound quality was terrible. It is by far the worst sounding THX house that I have ever heard.

If the sound quality were better, it would be a nice house. As it is (was?), I felt that it was completely over-rated.
 

---

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 04-21-2009, 05:50 PM:
 

quote: Brad Miller

---

it is so important to put on a flawless show (at least as flawless as your equipment is capable of) every single time no matter what, because many customers simply won't give you a second chance

---

quote: Bill Gabel

---

Tony you must have chosen that one lucky night that Ralph (Business Agent-Local 150) sent some clown to run the theatre that night. That was a problem in that local, of sending sub-par operators as reliefs from the extra board.

---

quote: Bill Gabel

---

ps. You should have seen it over at that Plitt Century Plaza.

---

quote: Don Furr

---

We've been to the Chinese in Hollywood a dozen times and the presentation has been all over the place from PERFECT when I saw "The Fugitive" to something back in October of last year (non digital) that looked like crap. Sad thing is that is was the second time that print had been run at that location. The film was fluttering in the gate for the first hour and there was a sound problem. I kept hearing a low-grade buzz in the stage speakers.<snip>

---

(Bold added by me.)

And that shows how fucked up the management of that place is. A theatre that is so famous should ALWAYS have the best possible presentation. And there is absolutely NO excuse for any kind of sound issues to persist for more than one day's worth of shows, there are too many techs in L.A. so no reason they couldn't get one on emergency call to fix whatever's wrong.

And there is NO excuse for having a flutter last for that long!! Again, still sloppy operators who have no business being in a booth.

quote: Brad Miller

---

And the above is why it is so important to put on a flawless show (at least as flawless as your equipment is capable of) every single time no matter what, because many customers simply won't give you a second chance and that means lost potential revenue from that person forever.

---

My vote for F-T quote of the Year.
 

---

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 04-22-2009, 12:29 AM:
 

quote: Tony Bandiera Jr

---

And the quality of the extra board was legendary..as in bad. I was in Tucson and the operator there was a nice guy (The Plitt Twin) who simply snorted and laughed "Huh, Local 150" when I told him I was from Los Angeles.

---

quote: Joe Redifer

---

Just because you don't get any complaints doesn't mean everything is perfect (with the exception being maybe the sound volume). People DO notice when you put on a sub-par presentation and they just stay away forever.

---

I wish I could agree with that, but I don't think it's true -especially when it comes to smaller markets with fewer movie theaters. People will get angered by a poor presentation of a movie and swear they're not going back to that theater, but end up doing so anyway.

I see that all the time here in Lawton.

The problem was common back in the days when the UA Cache 8 theater was still operating and showing certain first run movies exclusively. People hated that theater, but only had the choice of driving an hour or two to another city in order to see the same movie at a different, better theater. So they just put up with botched shows as a cost of seeing the movie now rather than waiting several months for it to show up on VHS or DVD.

Our market's choices improved when the Cache 8 converted to a bargain/2nd run operation. Dickinson opened the Central Mall 12 and it was located a far enough distance from the Carmike 8 so both places could show many of the same 1st run movies. We had a clear choice on choosing one theater over another in terms of presentation quality.

The Central Mall 12 has never been a good place to see movies, even when the place was brand new -all thanks to the bargain basement level of equipment they installed in the booth and the "let's sleep walk through our job" caliber of employees they tasked with running it. The Carmike 8 has been a much better alternative. Better equipped, better managed and operated. Nevertheless, the mall theater's numbers are routinely better than the Carmike 8, even with the Carmike 8 being an all D-cinema, all stadium seated site. And that's all by virtue of the Central Mall 12 theater being inside Central Mall.

I hear people bitch about out of focus projection, the glory of mono sound (with an idle, unused DTS machine in the booth) and hoards of noisy, cell-phone abusing teens as cornerstone features of Central Mall 12 film presentations. Yet those same people will mention they saw a certain movie and I'll ask, "did you watch it out at Carmike?" Nope. They saw it in the mall theater anyway because they had to pick up something at Dillards.

The people who run large movie theater chains are well aware of this reality and they avoid maintaining their theaters properly because they know the customers will keep coming back regardless of how presentation quality degrades.

To add to that, a lot of people have never experienced film done right and aren't aware of the difference.

I think the rising popularity of HDTV and Blu-ray poses at least some threat to shitty theaters. Increased ticket and concessions prices may drive away other cost conscious customers. Of course the specter of day and date release of movies in theaters and on home video at the same time would be extremely destructive to movie theaters. Poor show quality alone isn't enough to ruin the business of poorly operated theaters, even though it should be out of some form of justice. A lot of audience members are too absorbed by their damned cell phones to even notice the difference.
 

---

Posted by Scott D. Neff (Member # 185) on 04-22-2009, 11:38 AM:
 
RE: The Mann Chinese in Hollywood... do locals even go there?!?! I mean if you're going to put on a bad presentation, wouldn't you wanna do it at a place where your chance of having a repeat customer is slim to none?
 

---

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 04-22-2009, 01:12 PM:
 
I've heard that the Mann Chinese in Hollywood has the worst sounding THX room that exists, period. Oh, and I heard this when I was working for Mann Theaters. I've only been in front of the place, never inside so I can't offer first hand experience.
 

---

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-22-2009, 01:32 PM:
 
So if it's a "bad-sounding" THX room how did (do) they get certified? I thought all THX certified rooms sounded like heaven, or something.
 

---

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 04-22-2009, 01:32 PM:
 
To use Joe's favorite phrase, the THX at the Mann's Chinese "sucks ass." A perfect match for their presentation quality.

RE Scott: I doubt many locals go there for any reason. Traffic and parking in the area suck. The only attraction is the damn footprints.

RE Mike: Money talks. Since that dump is so "high profile" I'm sure a big enough payment to Lucas was enough to get the tag. And since THX was supposed to be more than just the room acoustics (equipment choices, PRESENTATION QUALITY, etc.) it is obvious that someone gave someone some to get that dump certified.
 

---

Posted by Daniel Wright (Member # 1983) on 04-22-2009, 02:08 PM:
 
I remember someone on this board years ago I believe it was Brad making a comment about the THX setup at the Promenade Mall in Tulsa being a joke.
 

---

Posted by Mark Lensenmayer (Member # 134) on 04-22-2009, 02:51 PM:
 
When it first opened, the GCC Northland 8 was the sweetest sounding theatre I've ever heard up to this day. At times you might think there were live musicians behind the screen. In its later days, the THX room had the sub cranked WAY up and the sound was awful...even with the THX certification.

A downtown plex has some THX rooms and I find the sound to be very dry.

THX used to mean something wonderful...when that THX trailer hit, you knew you were in for something special. Now...it's just a name (like Imax?).
 

---

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-22-2009, 03:34 PM:
 

quote: Tony Bandiera Jr

---

To use Joe's favorite phrase, the THX at the Mann's Chinese "sucks ass."

---

quote: Tony Bandiera Jr

---

The only attraction is the damn footprints.

---

Well that's not exactly accurate. There's the El Capitan, the Kodak Theater, and Hollywood & Highland all right there. The Cinerama Dome and Arclight is not that far away. Not to mention street vendors selling maps showing where Phil Hill lives and where Jack Valenti is buried.
 

---

Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 04-22-2009, 08:28 PM:
 

quote: David Stambaugh

---

There's the El Capitan, the Kodak Theater, and Hollywood & Highland all right there. The Cinerama Dome and Arclight is not that far away.

---

Like he said ... The only attraction is the damn[ed] footprints.
 

---

Posted by William T. Parr (Member # 677) on 04-23-2009, 07:50 AM:
 

quote: Adam Martin

---

Like he said ... The only attraction is the damn[ed] footprints.

---

DAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMMNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

That was Cold Adam......But Like Momma said 'Truth stings like a Mofo sometimes"

[ 04-23-2009, 01:04 PM: Message edited by: William T. Parr ]
 

---

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 04-23-2009, 02:53 PM:
 
Especially since I was referring only to the Chinese Theatre..

quote: Mike Blakesley

---

Actually I think Joe would say it "sounds like ass."

---

I don't want to know what "ass" sounds like...
 

---

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 04-23-2009, 03:07 PM:
 
Not touching that one.
 

---

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 04-23-2009, 03:31 PM:
 

quote: Tony Bandiera Jr

---

I don't want to know what "ass" sounds like...

---

A blown woofer with lots of bass content being driven to it.
 

---

Posted by William T. Parr (Member # 677) on 04-23-2009, 03:42 PM:
 

quote: Tony Bandiera Jr

---

don't want to know what "ass" sounds like...

---

Just in case you get curious later on. Ass Sounds
 

---

Posted by Tony L. Hernandez (Member # 3524) on 04-25-2009, 05:20 AM:
 
I totally agree, Joe. I always preach this to the higher ups in any theater I project for. Alas, it is very important to have a lobby, restrooms and auditorium(s) that are clean, comfortable and pleasing to the eye yet in the end, the projection/sound quality and the equipment in the booth is what really matters...after all, people attend movie theaters/drive-ins to see a movie, not attend an open-house of a "beautiful" building.
I would also like to add that as both an operator and a movie theater historian, I would personally conclude that a good sound system is more important than anything else. I have found that folks will downright avoid, if not also badmouth, a theater that has less than perfect sound.

I don't really recall what I thought of the Tamarac in years past however I did visit your theater in late '08 (I would assume you were there at that point) with my mother and a group of her friends to see "The Women" and was very impressed with the theater and even more with the projection and sound. I thought that it was pleasantly rare to see such quality at a multiplex(see my comment on CinemaTreasures).

My boss, a union operator, worked the Tamarac for a few years with his last gig there being a showing of "Mommy Dearest" when the picture first came out. Should you need any particular historical information regarding that theater or its equipment, drop me a PM and I will get it for you.
 

---

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 04-25-2009, 10:54 AM:
 
OK so that was YOUR comment. I was hoping that nobody thought I posted it there myself to try and give my theater an artificial compliment under an assumed name. Who was this union guy you speak of? Larry Leal? He is the only union operator at the Tamarac that I know of. However he died so I doubt that is him.
 

---

Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 04-27-2009, 09:50 AM:
 

quote: Mark Lensenmayer

---

THX used to mean something wonderful...when that THX trailer hit, you knew you were in for something special. Now...it's just a name (like Imax?).

---

quote: Frank Angel

---

consider it a marketing coupe to have their THX brand slapped on that venue.

---

quote:

---

At least it wasn't a marketing sedan!

---

No question, it was really difficult marketing that coup in the Sudan.
 

---

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 04-28-2009, 12:45 PM:
 
Groan.

This was better when we were discussing sounding like ass.
 

---