Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Post-release changes to films

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Posted by Frank Bruno (Member # 1871) on 07-26-2009, 05:00 AM:

I just watched The Shining for the first time in years. I've been doing some reading on it; apparently Kubrick cut a scene at the end of the film in which Wendy & Danny Torrance are recuperating at a hospital and are visited by Overlook manager Ullman. This would have been between either between jack being left screaming in the maze and the shot of his frozen body or after that shot but before the tracking shot to the photo on the hotel wall that closes the film.

I can see where it might have been; the edits in the last minute or so of the movie are really choppy & noticeable, despite having been mostly smooth until then, with even a bit of an audio hiccup. There seems to be dispute as to whether this scene hit the floor after early showings or made it into theatres with the US release and was cut & sent back to Wanrer Bros by projectionists a week or two into the run.

I can't see how this scene would have made it out to theatres in actual release, been ordered cut off, and still have never surfaced.

I figure some of the more veteran members of the board may have actually handled Shining on or before it's release, and could confirm or disprove this, or discuss how, if it's true, the cut footage was to be disposed of.

Can anyone think of any other studio mandated changes to films in release that were expected to be done in projection booths? I can recall a few examples on my watch of material being added (i.e. Monsters Inc. & the new last reel with "outtakes,") but no circumstance in which part of the feature has had to be removed.

Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 07-26-2009, 06:13 AM:

Opening night of "The Godfather", I got called to the office by Ellis Merkley, the manager. The house was nearly full for the first showing. The manager demanded that I leave the booth to answer the phone, "it's Hollywood and they want to speak to you NOW!'

The person on the phone said there was a mistake at the lab and somewhere in the opening titles, black screen with clear lettering in the center of the screen appearing and disappearing, there is a color test. Unload the machine and remove the "watermelon Girl! Keep your hand on the framing knob as we are unsure if it will remain in frame. Good Luck!"

I returned to the booth and performed the surgery. Oh yes, it was in frame after the edit. I went on to play that print 264 times. We did 5 shows a day and I was one of 5 operators of the booth, a 2,000 seat single screen Butterfield Theatre.

KEN

Posted by Mark Lensenmayer (Member # 134) on 07-26-2009, 08:42 AM:

I recall that there were mandatory cuts to NEW YORK, NEW YORK and EXORCIST II. I think for EXORCIST II they made a number of changes, finally just cutting off the ending of the film (since audiences found it very funny.)

Wikipedia gives a long list of changes to EXORCIST II, including changing the ending, reordering scenes and changing music. The movie still flopped.

There was also the Cincinnati Esquire theatre incident, where they edited a scene from CENTER OF THE WORLD in 2001 without permission.

Posted by Chad Souder (Member # 343) on 07-26-2009, 10:03 AM:

From Wikipedia:

There are several versions of The Shining. After its premiere and a week into the general run (with a running time of 146 minutes), Kubrick cut a scene at the end that took place in a hospital. The scene had Wendy in a bed talking with Mr. Ullman, the man who hired Jack at the beginning of the film. He explains that her husband's body could not be found, thus raising several questions and implications. He then walks over to Danny and hands him a yellow tennis ball, presumably the same one that lured Danny into room 237, thus informing the audience that Ullman was well aware of the super natural events happening at the hotel. This scene was subsequently physically cut out of prints by projectionists and sent back to the studio by order of Warner Bros., the film's distributor.

As noted by Roger Ebert:
“ If Jack did indeed freeze to death in the labyrinth, of course his body was found -- and sooner rather than later, since Dick Hallorann alerted the forest rangers to serious trouble at the hotel. If Jack's body was not found, what happened to it? Was it never there? Was it absorbed into the past, and does that explain Jack's presence in that final photograph of a group of hotel party-goers in 1921? Did Jack's violent pursuit of his wife and child exist entirely in Wendy's imagination, or Danny's, or theirs?... Kubrick was wise to remove that epilogue. It pulled one rug too many out from under the story. At some level, it is necessary for us to believe the three members of the Torrance family are actually residents in the hotel during that winter, whatever happens or whatever they think happens. ”

The European version runs for 119 minutes due to Kubrick personally cutting 24 minutes from the film as mentioned above.[3] The excised scenes made reference to the outside world.

For international versions, Kubrick shot different takes of Wendy reading the typewriter pages in different languages. For each language, a suitable idiom was used: German (Was du heute kannst besorgen, das verschiebe nicht auf morgen - "Never put off till tomorrow what may be done today"), Italian (Il mattino ha l’oro in bocca – "The morning has gold in its mouth"), French (Un «Tiens» vaut mieux que deux «Tu l'auras» – "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush"), Spanish (No por mucho madrugar amanece más temprano – "No matter how early you get up, you can't make the sun rise any sooner"). These alternate shots were not included with the DVD release, where only the English phrase was used.

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 07-26-2009, 10:42 AM:

As mentioned, Excorcist II. They sent out a newer version of the last reel and we were just supposed to throw out the first version.

Going back in history, when I was at AFI I ran a version of Garbo's Anna Karenia with a happy ending and the book ending.

I believe Freaks had two endings.

I'm not sure if either of these were corrected "in booth", but are indicative of Hollywood's long history of mucking with films.

Then there is the whole Clue debacle. What was it four different endings?

Posted by Richard P. May (Member # 3598) on 07-26-2009, 11:13 AM:

Back to Kubrick again....When 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY opened in New York people were walking out. Kubrick designated about 1/2 hour of deletions.
MGM sent editors with 70mm equipment out to the theaters around the country to make the cuts in existing prints.
My source for this was the long-retired former head of MGM's print services department, who coordinated this operation.
The negative was also changed, so future prints were the modified version. That remains so today. At one time there was consideration to add the deleted sections to a laserdisc, but Kubrick said "no".
Regardless of legal ownership, Kubrick had very tight control of all of his films until his death.
At one time prints of LOLITA were ordered for exhibition in the UK. We at the Turner Entertainment office in LA had the prints made from a negative set up in 1000 ft. sections, requiring a splice in the center of each reel (pretty standard procedure at that time). When received in England, SK had the prints inspected and refused them due to the splices. They had to be reprinted in 2000 ft. setup.

DM

Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 07-26-2009, 02:39 PM:

In answer to Franks question, The last scene of The Shining was cut after the first weekend.

Posted by James Westbrook (Member # 3690) on 07-26-2009, 03:04 PM:

Martin,
I only recall 3 different endings on Clue. That gimmick only worked in larger markets that had at least 3 booking zones, where one would get the A, one the B and one the C endings. Only the last reel was different.
My theatre, being the only one in Lubbock to book it, got the A ending.

Posted by Wayne Keyser (Member # 2420) on 07-26-2009, 04:18 PM:

CLEOPATRA (1963) was trimmed in several places (one or more times) from 248 minutes in its initial roadshow release, to 194 minutes by the time it got to the dollar houses.

Posted by John Lasher (Member # 968) on 07-26-2009, 09:12 PM:

There is a persistent rumor that there were actually 8* endings written, of which 7 were filmed for Clue, but only 3 were finished in time for the release.

* One for each guest and the "they all did it" ending. An ending where Wadsworth killed everyone and was himself finished off by the dogs was reportedly written, but discarded before filming as being "too gruesome."

Posted by Frank Bruno (Member # 1871) on 07-27-2009, 09:32 AM:

Mitch-I'm not lucky enough for you to know where & how projectionists were supposed to dispose of that scene?

MGM actually sending studio editors to hack down 70mm prints of 2001 is a mindblower.

In cases like Cleopatra or Exorcist 2 (which I didn't know was that extensively changed until I read the wikipedia page), did later playdates and markets get hacked up prints, or did the studios strike new prints refelcting the changes to the film? I thought with Cleopatra, for example, the film (or big "roadshow" releases like it) could take years to trickle into smaller markets or theaters, and that only a few prints were out there for their ealier roadshow releases. They would really just be having projectionists hack up 70mm prints of big releases, even in desperation as the film bombed?

Clue sounds like a damn nightmare. The only thing like it I can think of is Wolverine, and it didn't seem like Fox was going overboard to advertise that. I'm under the impression Clue was largely sold on it's multiple endings...?

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 07-27-2009, 09:54 AM:

James is right. "Clue" had 3 different endings, and they were in the advertising as to which ending was playing at which theatre (A, B, or C). Ostensibly, to get repeat business.

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 07-27-2009, 10:06 AM:

I know of one print of "The Shining" that escaped that cut. It was the back-up print at one of the main theatres that played it in Los Angeles.

Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 07-27-2009, 02:48 PM:

Here in northern NJ, the removed last scene from The Shining was sent back to a special office at Warner Brothers. I know of no footage that was not sent back or survived, and I have never heard about anyone having this footage, but that does not mean that all were destroyed.