Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Xnsferring VHS to DVD -or- capturing to PC

This is topic Xnsferring VHS to DVD -or- capturing to PC in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 09-27-2009, 09:48 AM:

In packing for the move to my new apartment this week, I had to wonder about my old VHS tapes of the family recordings -- many of which contain precious images of my children when they were young, including my late daughter. At some point soon, I really should archive these on DVD before they are lost.

What are the current methods of transferring VHS tape to DVD? Or, what about capturing them into my computer for editing, and then outputting to DVD (this would be my preferred way to go)? Are capture cards even made anymore? I had a video capture card 10 years ago, but it was very low resolution. I know that since DV has become commonplace, cameras create their own native video files, which sort of obsoletes video capture. What are my options?

Suggestions?

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 09-27-2009, 10:20 AM:

This is one of the things I do at home to make a few bucks in my spare time.

You will need a digital video converter such as the Grass Valley/Canopus ADVC300:
http://desktop.grassvalley.com/products/ADVC300/index.php

You will, of course, need a computer and software to make the conversion.

If you look around in the electronics stores, you should be able to find a DVD-burner/VCR combo unit that can burn VHS tapes directly to disk.

As far as I know, the price of either solution will be about the same. Somewhere between $100 and $200, depending on what you buy.

One thing to look out for is whether the burner or computer setup you buy has a time base corrector.

If your video tape does not play back at exactly the same speed it was recorded at, you will see a fuzzy picture and the colors will appear to be off. The time base corrector buffers all the incoming video and ensures that the picture information is complete before releasing it downstream.

The ADVC300 converter I showed you above has a line-based TBC built in. Some DVD burners have TBCs built in. You have to check. You can also buy an outboard time base corrector to put in-line with your system.

http://www.avtoolbox.com/avt8710.shtml
(I didn't pay $269 for mine! I paid about half that.)

When it comes down to it, unless you already have the gear, it's going to cost you a couple-few hundred dollars to do it.
Depending on how many videos you have to convert to DVD, you might be better off paying somebody to do it for you.

I'm not necessarily plugging my own services, here. I'm just giving an example:

I charge $30 for whatever fits onto a 2-hour DVD. Straight copy & burn. No frills. The disk auto-plays when inserted in the DVD player. If you want extras like menus, that's an add-on. If you want editing, that's charged per-hour of work.

Do the math. If you have about 10-15 hours or less of material on tape and all you want is "copy and burn", it will probably be cheaper to have somebody do it for you.

If the main goal is to learn how to do it yourself, then it's going to cost you anywhere from $150-$300 to get started.
(Assuming you have a computer and software that can do the work.)

If you have a lot of stuff on video tape and you want it all converted to digital, it will probably pay you to spend the money and do it yourself, especially if you want to do any editing. (I usually charge $50 per hour of work. The real pros charge $100/hr. and up.)

BTW: I have a Canopus/Grass Valley video card I don't use.
I was an idiot and didn't look to see what kind of interface my computer had before I bought the card.
I've got this card sitting around collecting dust:
http://www.avtoolbox.com/avt8710.shtml
(Street price on these is about $250. If somebody made me an offer, I'd be willing to part with it.)

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 09-27-2009, 10:54 AM:

Thanks, Randy! Good info. My computer is already set up to edit film-resolution files, from my trailer-making days. I've just never done video.

Posted by Bruce Hansen (Member # 281) on 09-27-2009, 01:24 PM:

If you have a stand alone DVD recorder, and a VHS player, just hook the output of the VHS deck to the input of the DVD recorder. You may be able to then load the DVD into your computer, and do editing, then dump back to DVD.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 09-27-2009, 03:05 PM:

Yes, you can hook your DVD burner up, directly to your VCR and it will work but there can be problems with that arrangement.

If your video tapes stretch or warp, they won't play back at a constant speed. This is especially prevalent with those high capacity cassettes because they used thinner tape that is more prone to stretching.

If you play a tape back on a different machine than it was recorded on, it's not guaranteed to play back at the same speed it was recorded at. Even the same player isn't 100% guaranteed to play a tape back at the same speed it was recorded at.

Now, if we're talking about audio tape, these variations aren't so critical. A small pitch change or a small amount of wow/flutter can be ignored. Many people won't even hear it. But, in video, this is critical. This can cause a "wavy" picture. It can cause colors to be off and bleed into each other. It can cause the picture to look grainy or snowy. It can cause a whole bunch of odd things to happen.

If you have a crappy picture on playback of a video tape, the DVD will record a crappy picture. That's what will be recorded on the DVD for all time to come. Your DVD recorder will faithfully record all of these defects. Essentially it's G.I.G.O. -- Garbage in. Garbage out.

What is needed is something called a Time Base Corrector. (TBC)
A TBC buffers the video signal until it has a complete frame then it passes on that information at the correct frame rate to make a clear picture.

Some VCRs have time base correctors built in. Mostly professional/broadcast equipment. Few consumer players have TBCs. If you want a TBC you will need to get a separate unit that can be hooked in-line between the devices.

The benefit of an outboard TBC is that it can have adjustable settings that allow you to correct for sharpness, color, brightness, tint and contrast. The one I have can also convert between PAL and NTSC.

The cheapest standalone TBC that I know of is made by a company called AV Toolbox.

http://www.avtoolbox.com/avt8710.shtml

The Mfg. list price is $269 but I got mine for less than that.

This device by Grass Valley/Canopus has a time base corrector built in: http://desktop.grassvalley.com/products/ADVC300/index.php

But it is only a LINE-Based TBC and not a Frame-based TBC. It will correct most minor problems and allow minor adjustments to picture but it's not quite as robust as a frame-based TBC.

If you're looking for a broadcast/editing VCR, you can find them on this website cheap: http://www.bstock.com/3col/
It's a good website but it's still "caveat emptor" because he's only the broker and not the direct seller.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 09-27-2009, 03:25 PM:

Do this while you still can! My primary Super-VHS machine's heads just started dying (it can't track for shit anymore or something). JVC sure started building awful products in the last decade or so of VHS' existence. I have one spare Mitsubishi Super-VHS and then a regular VHS that plays S-VHS tapes in VHS resolution. After those die, I am screwed if I ever want to look at material that I have stored on tape again.

Posted by Rick Raskin (Member # 1561) on 09-27-2009, 05:02 PM:

I bought a Magnavox VCR <> DVD deck at WalMart for just over $150 and have been getting good results transferring my VHS tapes to DVD. I first tried Roxio Easy VHS to DVD S/W which comes with a USB capture card and was less than impressed. You could always transfer to DVD and then import it into your PC for editing. For that task I have been using Xilisoft DVD to WMV Converter for several years. Editing, I use CyberLink Power Director, one of many similar suites out there. Have fun...

Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 09-27-2009, 06:09 PM:

Go with the all in one VHS/DVD unit, they work well and can be had these days for as little as $79. Won't do all the cute things the computer can do but it's simple and fairly quick and cheap. Also eliminates the temptation to monkey with things better left alone.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 09-27-2009, 08:49 PM:

quote:
You will need a digital video converter such as the Grass Valley/Canopus ADVC300:

I took a peek at the Thomson/Grass Valley site associated to this link and notice other models of the converter.

Could the smaller '55' unit do the same justice of service as does the '300'?

For, basically, I'm in the same question area as Tim is in: plenty of VHS tapes with precious information encoded on them that is screaming for a better archive/storage method.

thx-Monte

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 09-27-2009, 09:12 PM:

I actually use the ADVC110. It works very well.

The main difference between the products is:

ADVC55 - A/D converter.
http://desktop.grassvalley.com/products/ADVC55/index.php

ADVC110 - A/D and D/A converter.
http://desktop.grassvalley.com/products/ADVC110/index.php

ADVC300 - A/D + D/A converter PLUS line-based TBC.
http://desktop.grassvalley.com/products/ADVC300/index.php

ACEDVIO - Essentially the same as the ADVC110 except that it is built on its own interface card, thus eliminating the need for a FireWire port.
http://desktop.grassvalley.com/products/ACEDVio/index.php

There are some other feature differences but these are the hilights. Check the links for the whole story.

As far as I understand, the analog-to-digital chip is the same in all four units.

I chose the ADVC 110 because it does NOT have a TBC built in. I wanted to have an external TBC that I can adjust or completely disable if I find it necessary. Plus, the AVTool TBC has PAL/Secam to NTSC conversion capabilities.

Bill,
Yes you can use a DVD burner/VHS player to copy tapes to disk but you are probably going to need time base correction. This will be especailly true if your tapes are old.
Many consumer DVD recorders do not have time base correction. I'm willing to bet that $79.00 unit doesn't.

Your idea will work but if you want any kind of quality... I figure most Film-Techers do... you're going to need that TBC.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 09-27-2009, 10:05 PM:

I need a capture card that can capture component video. High definition would be a plus. But this is all I can really find (though I haven't really searched too hard yet). Cheap it is not.

[/slightly off topic]

Posted by Cameron Glendinning (Member # 3516) on 09-28-2009, 12:39 AM:

I use to use my DV camera, ie sony trv 900 as a input for vhs and standard betacam, the results were rock solid in the computer.

Posted by Pravin Ratnam (Member # 1417) on 09-28-2009, 09:49 AM:

I am surprised no firm (even those cheapie Chinese ones like Oppo) has come up with a reasonable DVD recorder which will at least take the HD signal via the Component Inputs and then make an anamorphic SD DVD which will be an acceptable compromise for now. I found one recorder with component inputs and then found out that they did not function for recording.

I wonder if the studios made a deal with them not to make it easy for the consumers to archive in HD. My firewire output on my Motorola 6412 DVR from COMCAST has been turned off after being active for a while. But even when I followed some online advice in using the firewire port, the transfer was cumbersome and not desirable quality.

Posted by Sean Weitzel (Member # 244) on 09-28-2009, 12:01 PM:

I would like to offer a note of caution to this thread. Despite what is claimed by the manufacturers, recordable DVD media is not archival. I have had too many experiences with recorded discs as little as 2 years old being full of errors and not able to be played back properly after just sitting in a case on a shelf in the house. The media itself is made up of dyes that are burned away during the recording process. What else are we all familiar with that has dyes that fade over time?

If you transfer your memories to recordable DVD, please make several copies and get into the habit of checking them every couple of years and make new copies as you see fit.

At this point, I'm finding that I trust digitally recorded magnetic tape based media out of all possible solutions. When I digitally capture material from an analog source in the interest of "archiving" it goes onto MiniDV tapes that are stored in a climate controlled environment. I then also dump the content to a recordable DVD for convienent viewing. So far, I've yet to encounter a MiniDV tape that won't play back even after a decade.

Conversely, I have VHS tapes that are 20 years old, and one that is 30 years old that still playback with no problems whatsoever.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 09-28-2009, 03:36 PM:

No consumer media is "archival". Well, maybe you could buy a bunch of 4 or 8GB flash cards and just store your media on there forever.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 09-28-2009, 05:13 PM:

B&W photographic film (or Kodachrome stored in a dark place) is pretty good as an archival format, and should last over 100 years.

Flash memory isn't really intended for long-term storage, and it is generally unrecoverable when it fails. Never mind that future computer hardware may not have an interface to accept current formats, or that the file formats themselves may become obsolete in the future.

For SD video, Digi-Beta is probably a good choice of storage format, with respect to the ability to play it many years into the future. It's probably overkill for VHS, however. DVCAM is probably OK, although I've heard that the tape transports are so small that they can be difficult to maintain, which means that it may be more difficult to find a working playback machine in several decades. It is also pretty heavily compressed, which archivists don't like, but it is difficult to be a purist when the original material is from VHS.

If the amount of material is small and the goal is long-term archival stability, a film transfer might actually be a reasonable option to consider, but that becomes cost-ineffective pretty quickly as the amount of material increases.

For home video material on VHS, I'd probably pick DVCAM with DVD viewing copies as a reasonably cost-effective storage medium, with the understanding that the tapes will need to be checked every few years and transferred to new formats.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 09-28-2009, 05:44 PM:

Wow, generation loss city! I'd digitize into a lossless format and just make viewable copies from there. Transfer the lossless data to the new types of storage that become standard in computers every so often. Perfect for those episodes of ALF taped off the air.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 09-28-2009, 07:10 PM:

Thanks for all the great info and suggestions! I have probably 30 hours of video.

I like the idea of using a TBC, since many of these tapes are starting to show degradation and are losing color lock. My thought is to get it stored and backed up at the highest quality possible onto hard drives and DVD, and then burn extra DVD viewing copies. Terabites of HDD storage are dirt cheap these days.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 09-28-2009, 09:28 PM:

quote: Joe Redifer
Well, maybe you could buy a bunch of 4 or 8GB flash cards and just store your media on there forever.

What about external USB or Firewire connected EXT HD's - what catagory would this storage media fit in?

True, EXT 1TB HD's are getting down to a very affordable level.. One could buy one once every other month at the prices that they are heading to..

thx-Monte

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 09-28-2009, 09:54 PM:

Hard disks are made to spin. Thus, it would be a bad idea to put a disk on the shelf and expect to be able to take it down from the shelf in a few years and connect it to a computer and recover useful data.

Also, interfaces tend to change, and the IDE disk that you used ten years ago will not likely work with a computer that you purchase ten years from now. This also does not solve any of the issues with changing file formats and such.

The good news is that (unlike flash memory) data on failed hard disks can usually be recovered by a professional data-recovery service, though the price tends to be quite high.

Online data storage on hard disks is a reasonable option, but that incurs regular expenses and does not guard against malicious or accidental file deletion or corruption.

Magnetic tape is far from ideal, but it's a better backup-and-store format than hard disk.

It's weird that every advance in technology (from stone tablets to papyrus to rag paper to wood-pulp paper to electronic files) had been a step backwards with respect to long term storage.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 09-28-2009, 10:00 PM:

You would think there'd be a company that would offer space you could just "play" your old video tapes thru a device that would upload the stuff to the "cloud" in real time. Then you could download and burn yourself a copy whenever you wanted. They could get around the copyright issues by having a small fee everytime you downloaded, which would be paid to the copyright holders if any.

Posted by Rick Raskin (Member # 1561) on 09-29-2009, 07:12 AM:

Such a device would have to be an A/D converter and as such you might as well just store and then replicate the data locally. Even if there were a commercial opportunity for such a service I think the file sizes would be prohibitively large. There are lots for people willing to do the transfer for you and as discussed earlier, the prices are not off the map.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 09-29-2009, 11:26 AM:

Yeah but to take advantage of one of the transfer places, you have to send your tapes away and many people would not feel comfortable doing that.

Posted by Rick Raskin (Member # 1561) on 09-29-2009, 12:46 PM:

I am one of those people too. In my case they are 8mm films from the 40s and 50s.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 09-29-2009, 04:25 PM:

quote: Scott Norwood
it would be a bad idea to put a disk on the shelf and expect to be able to take it down from the shelf in a few years and connect it to a computer and recover useful data.

I had intended one protection copy to stay on my computer HD - where it would be in regular use - plus the DVD copies for redundancy. I'm actually very afraid to trust any magnetic media as the sole storage, that's a big reason I want to get them off of VHS. Need to upgrade my computer soon, so would be a perfect time to get this done. [Smile]

Thanks!

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 09-29-2009, 04:38 PM:

The problem with DVD is that it uses compression which lessens the quality of the video. The exception would be if you stored your raw video files as DATA on the disc instead of DVD video, but DVDs or even Blu-rays aren't really big enough for a task like that.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 09-29-2009, 04:50 PM:

That's right, I have much to consider, I suppose.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 09-29-2009, 09:45 PM:

But he's taking his source from VHS. That's something like 250 lines. Isn't it? A DVD's got nearly double that.

The compression in a DVD is virtually irrelevant if you consider the source. Even if you have good source material, it still doesn't matter because a DVD can produce a better picture than many SD TVs can display. Properly compressed, you could never even tell if it displayed on an SD screen.

Yes, if you're talking Hi-Def, it's a whole other kettle of fish. But for rescuing old video from a VHS tape, an SD DVD is more than sufficient.

As far as archival issues, I know DVD-R (and DVD+R, etc.) are essentially unproven. They haven't been around long enough for us to really know how well they last. We've had film and other storage medium around for more than 100 years. We know how they behave in storage. Recordable DVDs have only been around since when? The 1990s? (Commercially available.) Twenty years is barely long enough to understand their properties in storage.

Anyhow, whenever I do a VHS to DVD project, I make two copies of the finished disk. I tell the person who gets it. "One for show and one to go." That means put one copy in storage and never touch it. Use the other for viewing and copying.

I will save the project files on my HD for a short time until I'm sure the person is satisfied with the result. After which, I archive the project onto DVDs and make a backup set. Once done, the HD files are erased.

So, yes, I know DVDs do degrade with time but, given what we don't know about their longevity, I think my strategy will get the customer, at least, to the point where they have their video on a reasonably stable medium that can be backed up with relative ease if they should ever need it.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 09-29-2009, 10:33 PM:

DVD compresses the color and loses independent frame information. Even Blu-rays look better on SDTVs than DVDs do. Resolution isn't everything.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-30-2009, 12:34 AM:

Randy, you would be better off giving the customer a DVD to play on cheap media, another to store and then pick 2 different brands of media and give them archival copy #2 and 3. That way by the time the DVD they watch starts to degrade, the hopes are that they have an archival version on higher quality media they can make a new dupe off of.

I also recommend to people they dupe the DVD every few years regardless, and then just date the copy. Also NEVER put a label on the disc, use a Sharpie marker to label it.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 09-30-2009, 01:10 AM:

Joe, I agree with you on the frame information but, for VHS, I don't think the color compression matters. Even with a time base corrector, you'll never get color out of a VHS tape that's better than a DVD can reproduce on SD TV.

For rescuing VHS tapes, I still think DVDs are more than sufficient.

Rescuing VHS onto Blu-Ray would be like putting racing slicks on a Model-T Ford.

Brad, I like your idea about extra backups. I'm not trying to be a dick but it's a good way to upsell the customer. After all, it is extra work for me (even if it's only a 15 minutes) and it is extra value for the customer. I only charge $30 for what I'm giving them now. If the customer refuses the offer, there's virtually no way for them to complain if/when their disks degrade. I gave them the option.

I never use cheap media for projects like this. I always use "name brand" disks. I try to get disks with azure blue or purple dye and avoid green/cyan dye disks. I don't remember the specifics but I remember reading that the green/cyan disks degrade faster plus they aren't as reliable in as wide a selection of players as the blue/purple ones are.

Most name brand media like Memorex, Verbatim, etc. are using the blue/purple dyes now.

I like your dupe strategy too. I will think about doing that for MY DVDs in storage now. It's also another service I can offer customers, as well. I'm not trying to be a greedy capitalist but, WTF, I'm doing the work. The customer gets value out of it. I should get paid for it. Right?

Though, I have thought about "officially" going into business, right now, I limit myself to family, friends and referrals.
Out of all the projects I've done since the year began, I have taken in just a few hundred dollars.

You guys are getting me thinking again. Maybe I should put an add in the local Penny Saver. [Shrug]

Oh, yeah! I NEVER put labels on disks. I have a labeler but I only used it a few times. The first time I saw a label come off in a player, I put the thing up on the shelf. I use nothing but Sharpies, now.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-30-2009, 01:29 AM:

Charge 'em an extra $5 per archival backup. It is plenty fair and very smart. Personally though, I think your $30 is a bit TOO cheap. I am surprised you aren't $50 for a 2 hour transfer.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 09-30-2009, 01:35 AM:

quote: Joe Redifer
DVD is that it uses compression which lessens the quality of the video

Dang, maybe some can find the need to revive the old laserdisc method - in making LD recoders since the video was uncompressed FM analog information.

..just a thought ... - Monte

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 09-30-2009, 01:53 AM:

Actually LaserDisc also has uncompressed stereo PCM digital audio. You can even add a Dolby Digital 5.1 track for your VHS backups in addition to that stereo PCM. Then have a mono analog FM backup. Too bad the video doesn't seem to last very well on LDs.

quote: Brad Miller
Also NEVER put a label on the disc, use a Sharpie marker to label it.

Thank you! There are so many ways that sticky labels can ruin a DVD that it just isn't worth it. Sure, a Sharpie may not look nice and professional, but the integrity of the data will be better. If you want "professional", stamp out a thousand copies with silk-screened artwork. Perfect for backing up those episodes of Charles in Charge recorded in VHS EP!

Posted by Sean Weitzel (Member # 244) on 09-30-2009, 02:03 AM:

What do you guys think about blank DVD media that is inkjet printable on the label side?

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 09-30-2009, 03:36 AM:

quote: Joe Redifer
Too bad the video doesn't seem to last very well on LDs.

Would that video dedregation caused by the usage of acrylic instead of the polycarbonate that is used on the present optical media?

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 09-30-2009, 04:07 AM:

I don't know, but I watched some of my LDs recently and noticed that they had little blips and small lines here and there around the screen on occasion. Things that definitely weren't there years and years ago when they were new. LaserDisc video is analog so even minor wear can be seen onscreen.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 09-30-2009, 10:54 AM:

Brad, I started out charging $50 for 2-hour disks but people complained. I knocked it down to $30 but I specify that is just "copy and burn." No menus. No titles. No editing. Just put in the disk and play.

If the disk spills over two hours, I can increase the compression up till about the 150 minute mark. (Joe is probably getting the shakes right now! [Wink]

) But, if their material goes over the two-hour mark by more than a few minutes, that will cost them another disk and another $30.

If they want menus or title cards, that's another $5 each and that only gets them a template. Photos, custom graphics and "motion" menus cost more. I "make up" the prices depending on how much work I feel like doing. Typically, I calculate it based on a $50/hr. labor rate. (Yes, I know that pros charge anywhere from $100 to $200 dollars per hour.)

This is why I like your ideas about extra copies and backups. It lets me keep the prices down for people who want things cheap. It lets me offer extra service to people who want it and it keeps people off my back when they complain that their disks don't work any more.

Erie has a depressed economy, even over the national economy which is in a big recession right now. People aren't spending money the way they once did. (or "should" spend money.)

Many people just don't understand the process of how video tape rescue works. As much as I try to explain to them, they just don't "get" why I should charge them $50/hr.
That's why I went down to $30 but I charge them for all the extras I might be inclined to do for them (based on how much I like the person) if I charged more.

Sean, If I had the money or had the amount of business to justify the expense I would have bought a label printer that prints right on the disk. It's just not worth it right now. Maybe some day... [Roll Eyes]

I had considered getting some professionally screened disks that have my name on the top part and blank spaces to write in the title, date and client's name but again, not enough business and the expense is too much. Maybe later.

As far as I know, silk screened or inkjet disks don't have the problems stick-on labels do.

Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 10-03-2009, 04:38 PM:

Have you ever looked at Lightscribe discs?

I've seen some very well-done Lightscribe labels, but I've also seen some bad ones. Like everything else, it's all about skill and attention to detail.

I've done DVD work in the past, and dealing with inket labels was an experience I hope to never repeat! The end result looked pretty good, but I wonder if they are playable after five years of time passed.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 10-04-2009, 10:34 PM:

We have a Lightscribe at work.

They work as advertised and, if you know how to do it right, you can produce some nice labels but there are drawbacks.

First, they take a long time to burn. Some times they take 20 minutes or more. The burn time is dependent on the complexity of the design and the contrast level the burner runs at. Obviously, the more printed area there is on a disk, the longer it takes to burn but, if set to the darkest contrast level, a complex design can take "forever" to burn.

Disks are more expensive, as well. About double the cost of regular.

They are also sensitive to ultraviolet light. If left in the sun long enough, they will fade.

I think Lightsribe is okay but it's certainly not usable for producing more than a few disks at a time. If it was really as great as the advertisers often make it out to be, wouldn't all DVD burners have it?

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 04-25-2010, 07:19 AM:

Okay...so I have an iMac (Intel based, 5,1 version) and would like to use it to make the occasional DVD from some form of analog source. I don't plan to be doing much of any one type of source but it could be VHS, LD, phone, Camera, DVR...who knows. But from those sources, I want to be able to edit "work on" and output DVDs. This is strictly for myself/family. Note, I suspect many will be just strictly load onto the computer and burn to DVD

First, is there a recommended device (USB/Firewire) to inputting the analog video signals (and audio)? I will definitely want S-Video, Composite and Component available with component being the least needed).

And once that device is connected, do the typical Apple programs that hang around OS X (I'm running 10.6.3) allow for burning DVDs (like iDVD)? I also have Toast...it is probably dated now...Toast 7 Titanium.

Steve

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 04-25-2010, 12:43 PM:

Regarding Monte's Q and Joe's comment on LDs, yes some LDs (depended on the pressing plant) were known to flex or warp just enough to break their edge seals, thus allowing oxidation of the aluminum layer to occur. Once that begins happening, eventually the disc will become unplayable. In its early stages this "Laser Rot" looks like colored snow during playback. It is also to see the oxidized areas of the aluminum layer by visual inspection of the disc.

As Joe mentioned, since LDs are analog, any scratches or other surface issues will readily show up during playback, just like LPs and 45s... or film!

LDs used a plastic that was hygroscopic - it absorbed moisture from the air. Combined with the large size of the discs themselves, the warping forces could become large enough to cause the edges to split, thus exposing the aluminum layer to the outside.

DVDs use a different plastic that is not hygroscopic. That, combined with the DVD's much smaller size, make them much less susceptible to warping. DVDs can have edge failures too, just not ones caused by warping.

* * * * *

I too am interested in seeing what tools you all are using for doing these kind of video transfers. Out of the several hundred LDs (and a handful of VHSs/S-VHSs) I still have, there are a few I'd like to transfer to digital storage and playback.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 04-25-2010, 01:51 PM:

Steve, you can probably do all that (except for a component connection) with any MiniDV camcorder switched to AV input mode. Capture through the firewire and into iMovie. Then burn with iDVD. Don't ask me how to use those programs, though, as they are extraordinarily bizarre. They are not built for editors. They are built for grandma.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 04-25-2010, 02:37 PM:

I don't have a miniDV camcorder...or any camcorder, for that matter.

However, since posting this...I looked at the tutorials on iMovie and iDVD...it looks like for ones basic DVD making, Apple has it pretty figured out...as Joe puts it...for "Grandma." There isn't any real way to sweeten it any though there are "effects" on can do.

As for video capture devices...I did find several...one of which from a company that I use, and like, from the professional world. Black Magic-Design. In fact, they have a "home" version of their video capture device that does indeed support Component as well as S-Video and Composite! The down side...I haven't found a good means to move the digital multi-channel audio over. This is something I definitely want from some of my LDs. I have an RF->AC3 converter for the LD player too.

How does one deal with AC3 or some image improvements on an iMac or is that pretty much the domain of Final Cut?

I also see that Toast is up to version 10 and they have their own "drop-n-save" means of going from source file to DVD burning. My version 7 does have the ability to burn DVDs but it seems a bit more basic. There is even a Toast package that included the capture device in the box with a basic version of Toast (by Roxio).

Steve

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 04-25-2010, 05:17 PM:

That's all about Final Cut Studio. Drop a grand on it and then we'll talk.

However recording the 6-channel audio will require special hardware unless you record 2 channels at a time and then sync them back up... a pain for a full length movie!

Toast sucks. In fact, ALL Mac disc burning apps suck. Toast is fine if you want to burn a music CD, a Mac ISO or a DVD where the VIDEO_TS folder already exists, but beyond that it offers very little flexibility. It cannot burn ISO + MP3 or ISO + AIFF/WAV and the like.